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Impact Support Club House

As someone who isn't a feminist but holds respect for their cause, I really don't like it when people bring out the "Well, if you're seeking out equal rights, you'd be better off not complaining" argument. Physically, Dixie is nowhere near as powerful as Bully Ray, and as such, she should be entitled to some form of respect due to their unchangeable inequality. A barbarous assault on a defenceless middle-aged woman is a villainous act, no matter how you look at it, and not only harmful in damaging the audience's relationships with Bully Ray as a babyface character, but also damaging to people's perspective on TNA as a whole.

To put this into perspective, let's say I am Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. I am often considered a hero to many for my actions in attempting to bring equality to the land. Now, imagine if I started stealing from the poor as well. People are capable of defending that action with "If the rich are being stolen from, why shouldn't the poor be also?" Simple: The poor are vulnerable and incapable of surviving without my help in this example. The rich aren't. Why should I still be considered anything close to a hero if I target vulnerable people along with the rich? Why should Bully Ray be considered anything close to a hero if he targets vulnerable women as well as men?

Everyone should. There's always someone stronger than you.

But seriously, we shouldn't say that an old woman deserves more because she's weaker. I mean, who's to say nobody can beat the crap out of Bully Ray one night? Nobody deserves a beating and it's everyone's human right to be protected from abuse, not just those that are considered vulnerable. That contradicts another human right which says that we are all seen as equals.
 
Spud is a wrestler. He signed up to TNA as a wrestler in kayfabe after winning British Boot Camp. There's a big difference.

But is there? Since being given the role as Dixie's PA, Spud has done everything in his power to distance himself from being a performer (MVP put him back in that position when he won power). Asides from that, Spud has always been portrayed as even more terrified of Bully than Dixie and were Dixie was always coming out on top, poor wee Spud continually got brutalized.

Dixie has gotten physically involved on at least two occasions, leaving those she attacked lying. She's bigger than Spud, with much greater back-up. Kayfabe, who would you be more intimidated by?

I'm willing to drop this now. Wondering if I should just make a new thread for the discussion to continue.

Please don't. I think everyone agrees that man on women violence... and bullying... and ageist attacks... and bottling people... and using weapons... and violence in general is wrong. The point of dispute is how far is too far.
 
Before I begin with this again, I want to apologize for generalizing all wrestling fans in the way I did. I get that not all wrestling fans hate women; I even get that not all 1200 fans in the Hammerstein Ballroom have evil intentions. Again, not an excuse, but more an explanation; I do have bipolar, so when I get into a certain swing, I tend to get rather grandiose. Angry. Not an excuse, I need to be held accountable for things I've said.


I did read the whole thing and it makes better sense than the other responses I've read earlier. I still don't see it as horribly wrong as some make it out to be and still see it as the culmination of a story with a villain getting punished for her crimes. The fact that she's a woman has little bearing on it in my mind.

Regarding what you said about the "she had it coming" issue, that makes sense but there's a difference that draws a line for me: this is wrestling, where everything is meant to be over the top and often not taken seriously. When you have control of a company being decided inside a steel cage or grown men wearing underwear to a fight or having a carnival show up at a wrestling show or whatever other over the top thing wrestling is doing, it changes the way the show is viewed.

Those things almost act as comic relief. There comes a point when you stop and look at what you're watching and realize how completely insane it really is. The fact that the violence against Dixie is taking place in a wrestling ring as over the top characters chant for it and a previously cut table is involved with a commentary team prattling on about some kickboxing event, it makes it seem far less serious than a man who comes home every night with a half empty can of beer and nails his wife in the jaw so that she has to wear extra makeup so her boss doesn't see it. The fact that the scenario is so over the top takes some of the edge off.

As you said, I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that this is going to cause men to go out and punch women in the face over and over, but I also don't think it's going to be taken all that seriously. Someone earlier said the same people that cheer this would likely all say that violence against women is entirely wrong. Wrestling has often been like a live action cartoon in a lot of ways. Just because I see Bugs Bunny cause Daffy Duck to get shot over and over again doesn't mean that I want to go put a bullet in a duck. Why? Because it's not meant to be realistic.

I get that, but isn't there sort of a problem when professional wrestling is presented as an attempt to be as real as possible?

You and I get it's fake; I know. The problem is, the whole concept of wrestling is theater designed to look as real as possible, without actually hurting each other. And granted, we've strayed quite a way from the carny days. But this isn't presented as a cartoon; in theory, this is presented as real life improv theater.

... I can still pretend that writers aren't pulling the marionette strings, right?

There's a certain gravity associated with these sorts of angles, as Gelgarin mentioned in a way more elegant than mine. This lacked that gravity; it was indeed a cartoon. A real life cartoon, however, that still pulls a sort of subconscious message from the wreckage of splinters, leather pants, and a three hundred pound man's fat ass.

Insert Steiner promo accordingly.
 
I'll spoiler this stuff as it isn't fair for the people that want to discuss TNA as a whole without being bombarded with our discussion points.

But seriously, we shouldn't say that an old woman deserves more because she's weaker. I mean, who's to say nobody can beat the crap out of Bully Ray one night? Nobody deserves a beating and it's everyone's human right to be protected from abuse, not just those that are considered vulnerable. That contradicts another human right which says that we are all seen as equals.

I can understand Bully Ray being a vigilante by taking out and humiliating Dixie's right hand men because those guys are in kayfabe wrestlers, who are willing to put their life on the line in their field of work. Dixie does not have such a luxury in kayfabe. Sure, she held power in a wrestling business, but she is not a qualified wrestler, and working in an environment with people like Bully Ray, she is more physically vulnerable from attack than the qualified wrestlers, who are capable of defending themselves.

You are right, any assault in real life is a bad thing. However, Dixie vs Bully in a physical confrontation glorified the use of violence against women. No matter how troublesome Dixie is, it portrayed Bully Ray in a poor light and should not be used as a way to promote him as a hero, no matter how badass he is.

@FF4L: That doesn't change the fact that Spud signed up to be a professional wrestler in TNA. Just because Spud is portrayed as Courage The Cowardly Dog doesn't change the fact that he is an athlete that calculated the risk of competing with the company, as opposed to Dixie, who is not an athlete.

With all things taken into account, if handled carefully, Bound For Glory could be a major chance for TNA to hit back hard against the firm competition ROH has been providing as of late. The cards are down for an excellent show, let's hope TNA deliver the goods.
 
I get that, but isn't there sort of a problem when professional wrestling is presented as an attempt to be as real as possible?

Yes, which is partially why being real doesn't work all that well.

You and I get it's fake; I know. The problem is, the whole concept of wrestling is theater designed to look as real as possible, without actually hurting each other. And granted, we've strayed quite a way from the carny days. But this isn't presented as a cartoon; in theory, this is presented as real life improv theater.

... I can still pretend that writers aren't pulling the marionette strings, right?

Sure. It's better when people do.

There's a certain gravity associated with these sorts of angles, as Gelgarin mentioned in a way more elegant than mine. This lacked that gravity; it was indeed a cartoon. A real life cartoon, however, that still pulls a sort of subconscious message from the wreckage of splinters, leather pants, and a three hundred pound man's fat ass.

Insert Steiner promo accordingly.

I could go with this if Dixie wasn't the character she was. If this was say Christy Hemme for instance.
 
Eddie's Head Cheese
@FF4L: That doesn't change the fact that Spud signed up to be a professional wrestler in TNA. Just because Spud is portrayed as Courage The Cowardly Dog doesn't change the fact that he is an athlete that calculated the risk of competing with the company, as opposed to Dixie, who is not an athlete.

You're mixing real life with kayfabe amigo. Spud was brought back into the main roster in a non-wrestler persona and has been portrayed as a weakling buffoon ever since. Bully continually brutalizing him should be every bit as offensive. Plus, saying that he's calculating risk? Really? You think that Dixie was really powerbombed without her say-so?

Again, it comes down to were we (as wrestling fans) draw our own lines. Is powerbombing Chyna okay? Jazz? Trish? Stacey? Zack Gowan? Vince McMahon? Earl Hebner? Mae Young? Spud? Dixie? Were does equality start and end?
 
I could go with this if Dixie wasn't the character she was. If this was say Christy Hemme for instance.


And I suppose this is where we diverge, and where you take the Charles Xavier based thought process, and I the Magneto, more militant, Black Panther based thought process. Neither right or wrong, just the way it is. I'm still perplexed about the notion of this being a face spot. But I always have been.

Now, let's watch Raw, and see what slop Steph gets thrown into t his week.
 
And I suppose this is where we diverge, and where you take the Charles Xavier based thought process, and I the Magneto, more militant, Black Panther based thought process. Neither right or wrong, just the way it is. I'm still perplexed about the notion of this being a face spot. But I always have been.

Now, let's watch Raw, and see what slop Steph gets thrown into t his week.

I can go with that in this case.
 
I can understand Bully Ray being a vigilante by taking out and humiliating Dixie's right hand men because those guys are in kayfabe wrestlers, who are willing to put their life on the line in their field of work. Dixie does not have such a luxury in kayfabe. Sure, she held power in a wrestling business, but she is not a qualified wrestler, and working in an environment with people like Bully Ray, she is more physically vulnerable from attack than the qualified wrestlers, who are capable of defending themselves.

You are right, any assault in real life is a bad thing. However, Dixie vs Bully in a physical confrontation glorified the use of violence against women. No matter how troublesome Dixie is, it portrayed Bully Ray in a poor light and should not be used as a way to promote him as a hero, no matter how badass he is.

If you're trying to say in your first paragraph that because Dixie isn't a trained performer, going through a table is dangerous for her, then I think you're wrong. They've been building that spot for weeks, I'm sure they put plenty of practice into it and made it as safe as. They are professionals you know.

I'm still not understanding people when they say it promotes violence against women. Doesn't the whole show do that then, to all kinds of people? We've seen smaller people, older people and the handicapped get beat up, why does no one complain about that?
 
The way it's meant to be! Perfection.

Stuart-Wheeler-Women-Poker-081913L.jpg
 
I'm not all that high on the guy (decent worker, but no personality whatsoever to work with), but Sanada re-signed another long-term deal with TNA this morning, apparently.
 
They are really pressing hard with this Japan thing. I'm not sure how well it's going but Bound For Glory is going to be a big deal, be it good or bad.
 
I'm not all that high on the guy (decent worker, but no personality whatsoever to work with), but Sanada re-signed another long-term deal with TNA this morning, apparently.

I like him quite a lot. At least this means that TNA won't make this a departure angle, ending up with the titleholder leaving for realsies.

I also like these training vignettes. Reminds me a lot of that one Bruce Lee movie.
 
I'm not all that high on the guy (decent worker, but no personality whatsoever to work with), but Sanada re-signed another long-term deal with TNA this morning, apparently.

Have to say I agree, think part of the problem is that he isn't as spectacular as many of the X-Division guys. Personally, I'd like to see him operate either in the heavyweight or tag divisions - he ain't a small guy, so that wouldn't be an issue... he could use a mouthpiece though (perhaps throw his lot in with MVP?).
 
The week of ROH's first live PPV Best in the World, TNA contacted a number of ROH talents in an attempted 'raid' as some have suggested. The talent contacted included Jay Lethal, Bobby Fish and Kyle O'Reilly, Matt Hardy, Homicide, Mike Bennett and some others. I'm being told that Bobby Fish recently signed a contract extension with ROH and is only interested in working for NJPW when he, O'Reilly, Adam Cole, Bennett and Maria represent ROH at the G1 Climax Final on 7/10. O'Reilly's contract is up sometime this year and his friendship with trainer Davey Richards who has admitted in a public interview that he wants O'Reilly in TNA might influence his decision. Fish and O'Reilly have a very good thing going with reDRagon and I can't see them splitting up but O'Reilly's singles success in PWG is a good example that he can go it alone.

Jay Lethal is under ROH contract but still told TNA he had no interest when they asked him to come in for Destination X. Lethal is very loyal to ROH and left TNA under poor circumstances in 2011 looking to return to ROH. He is also close friends with AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels and Frankie Kazarian who are all very pro-ROH right now. Homicide only worked part-time for ROH with Eddie Kingston as Outlaw Inc and ROH had no scheduled plans to use him going forward but he jumped at the opportunity to return to TNA but is only signed to a short-term deal.

Matt Hardy's situation is the most interesting as TNA did offer him a deal but he rejected because he doesn't want to leave ROH just yet. From our discussions with Matt on the podcast over the last year and a half he's very grateful to ROH for giving him a chance when WWE and TNA probably wouldn't. ROH gave him creative freedom to openly bash them and even point out real negatives they have to get his character over. Hardy's worked hard to promote ROH and when TNA offered him a contract for more money then ROH pay him per appearance he said no. ROH aren't happy about Hardy's decision to work for TNA and them and while Hardy still wants to work for ROH judging from a promo ROH put out from Hardy he suggested that if someone wants to rid him from the company they'd have to kill him, a teaser that he could soon be departing.

Court Bauer mentioned on his MLW podcast that TNA once again asked Manhattan Center representatives about using the Hammerstein Ballroom but they have again said no. The Hammerstein is the biggest part of the center and has became ROH's regular stage in New York. Manhattan Center officials don't want to upset ROH by letting TNA use the larger facility and ROH don't want TNA running the same part of the facility as them. ROH is still more popular than TNA in-terms of crowd attendance in NYC but TNA want to change that, ROH sees their superiority coming from them being able to fill the larger part of the Manhattan Center while TNA will use the Grand Ballroom and don't want that to change. Not to mention MCU Field officials dropping TNA in-favor of ROH also helps ROH's position as the no. 2 in NYC.

I don't see Fish and O'Reilly breaking up. They both seem very dedicated to reDRagon. Don't see Lethal leaving anytime soon, Homicide is well past his prime, Outlaw Inc had a ton of potential but wound up sucking a lot of balls (them getting booed out of the Hammerstein being the prime example) and if Matt Hardy goes I hope he goes putting someone over. Don't mind if he works until Final Battle and they have Jay Briscoe kill him then or even before it, but even I thought his promo this week suggested they were going to end his run soon.

From an ROH perspective I'm happy they get to keep the Hammerstein.
 
Homicide looked just fine at the NYC tapings.

Spoiler stuff, but he and Low Ki ended up being the final two in a six-man XD match for the final taping, and the crowd was hot as fuck for it. He looked awesome, too, and the place blew the fuck up for the Gringo Killa spot.
 
I doubt Lethal wants to come back to TNA. He's on a nice heel run in ROH plus also holds the TV title there. Is there any confirmation that any of the other ROH stars aside from Fish and Hardy that are considering going to TNA?
 
I doubt Lethal wants to come back to TNA. He's on a nice heel run in ROH plus also holds the TV title there. Is there any confirmation that any of the other ROH stars aside from Fish and Hardy that are considering going to TNA?

From what it says, Fish is signed to ROH and is only interested in going to NJPW if he goes anywhere. O'Reilly is up in the air because his contract expires sometime this year, I don't think he'd want to split reDRagon as reDRagon the team means more then O'Reilly the singles guy IMO, but Davey could always be in his ear. No clue about Bennett, but I imagine if TNA want him Bennett will only go if TNA signs Maria too.

The funny thing is, the guys they want, reDRagon and Bennett are going to NJPW for ROH and will be working NJPW shows as well as ROH ones, so they'll have to weigh up their options, because from what Doc Gallows/Luke Gallows has said, NJPW pays him a lot more then TNA did.
 
Aah the gringo killa'. Always my finisher in the WWE games. I know it's far away but what do you guys think the BFG main event is going to be?
 
Lashley/Roode would be an awesome main event. I'd accept a triple threat with Lashley/Roode/Aries as well.
 

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