If you could turn back time

[Emmet]

Oh no you didn't. LMAO. His last match was cleanly losing the belt to Austin, then having an Austin shirt draped over him.

Blind Hart mark? Reet, lets set something straight now. Shawn is an amazing performer. By far one of the best wrestlers to ever step foot in the ring. His work is amazing, and he is currently involved in one of the best feuds of the last few years. He has had countless great matches, and his WM matches go beyond even that. It's stupid to think the WWE wouldn't have benefited from him. Especially when many mark the beginning of the attitude era as a certain event in Montreal..involving Shawn

He only lost cleanly to Austin because Taker would have kicked ten colours of crap out of him if he didn't. He didn't want to drop the belt to Austin.

Whos cares if HBK was an amazing performer? whats that got to do with him being a arrogant little prick who refused in the late 1990s to drop the title to anyone? He hated the Rock. So the Rock might not have developed like he would have done with HBK around because him and Vince were holding each other's d*ck all the time at that point and HBK would have held the Rock down.

The Attitude era did not start in Montreal. Hw anyone can say that is beyond belief. Vince the boss that eveyone hated started in Montreal sure. But the Attitude era started maybe a year or so before hand. And I believe Bret and Austin started it. Not HBK.

 

[HBK-aholic]

He only lost cleanly to Austin because Taker would have kicked ten colours of crap out of him if he didn't. He didn't want to drop the belt to Austin.

Whos cares if HBK was an amazing performer? whats that got to do with him being a arrogant little prick

Well seeings as he's there to wrestle, and all we see is him wrestling, it has a fair bit to do with it. You see, no one's saying he wasn't an asshole in those days. I'm not denying he was disrespectful. But did the fans see it? No. So while that can shape your opinion of him on a whole, it really should have nothing to do with his performances in the ring, which were, and are, amazing.

who refused in the late 1990s to drop the title to anyone? He hated the Rock. So the Rock might not have developed like he would have done with HBK around because him and Vince were holding each other's d*ck all the time at that point and HBK would have held the Rock down.

1. Shawn didn't hate The Rock.
2. Shawn didn't get a say in who won the belt. You are putting so much on to him, when really he isn't involved. If he was, do you think Hart had ever won the belt? If McMahon wanted Rock to be champion, The Rock will have been champion. Where are you getting the fact Shawn chose from?

The Attitude era did not start in Montreal. Hw anyone can say that is beyond belief. Vince the boss that eveyone hated started in Montreal sure. But the Attitude era started maybe a year or so before hand. And I believe Bret and Austin started it. Not HBK.

The attitude era didn't start in 1996. I mean, for a start, the attitude era started around the time the name 'Monday Night Raw' was changed to Raw is War. Which didn't happen until 1997.

Montreal is often mentioned as the turning point for the WWE. I mean, the attitude era was all about going against the boss. Going against management and what they hated. Where did that boss everyone hate start? You said it yourself; Montreal.

Bret had nothing to do with the attitude era. As you rightly say, it was Austin. But not Hart.

 

[Emmet]

1. Shawn didn't hate The Rock.
2. Shawn didn't get a say in who won the belt. You are putting so much on to him, when really he isn't involved. If he was, do you think Hart had ever won the belt? If McMahon wanted Rock to be champion, The Rock will have been champion. Where are you getting the fact Shawn chose from?



The attitude era didn't start in 1996. I mean, for a start, the attitude era started around the time the name 'Monday Night Raw' was changed to Raw is War. Which didn't happen until 1997.

Montreal is often mentioned as the turning point for the WWE. I mean, the attitude era was all about going against the boss. Going against management and what they hated. Where did that boss everyone hate start? You said it yourself; Montreal.

Bret had nothing to do with the attitude era. As you rightly say, it was Austin. But not Hart.

Ok maybe HBK didnt hate the Rock, but he did dislike him. And treated him like shit. I know this because A) Rock refused to work with HBK since he come back in 2002 and B) Bret says in his book that HBK and Hunter picked on Rock when he was just starting out. I doubt Bret is hardly making it up, what does he get from making up a insignificant lie like that?

Also HBK had alot of stroke in 1997. He effectively got rid of his main rival. Bret. Vince chose HBK over Bret because HBK was younger and HBK was in his ear even though Bret was a bigger international star than HBK.

As for the attitude era. Many people state KOTR 96. Austin 3:16 as the start. Many people think WM 13, Bret and Austin crossing over. Many people state Montreal. It all depends on everyones opinion.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Ok maybe HBK didnt hate the Rock, but he did dislike him. And treated him like shit. I know this because A) Rock refused to work with HBK since he come back in 2002 and B) Bret says in his book that HBK and Hunter picked on Rock when he was just starting out. I doubt Bret is hardly making it up, what does he get from making up a insignificant lie like that?

Bret said it to so it must be true . Meh, he may have liked him, he may not have. I haven't ever heard Shawn say anything bad about him. But if The Rock refused to work with Shawn, doesn't that look like The Rock hated Shawn, not the other way around?

Also HBK had alot of stroke in 1997. He effectively got rid of his main rival. Bret. Vince chose HBK over Bret because HBK was younger and HBK was in his ear even though Bret was a bigger international star than HBK.

This is bullshit and you know it. Shawn had absolutely nothing to do with Bret leaving to go to WCW. Hell, McMahon didn't even fire Hart, he told him to look at WCW if he wanted more money. Bret took the opportunity, and signed with WCW. Shawn was involved in Montreal, but he wasn't involved in Bret leaving.

As for the attitude era. Many people state KOTR 96. Austin 3:16 as the start. Many people think WM 13, Bret and Austin crossing over. Many people state Montreal. It all depends on everyones opinion.

Indeed. There isn't a single moment. A lot built up to it. But it did mainly revolve around Austin and The Rock. Hart and HBK had little involvement.

 

[Emmet]

Bret said it to so it must be true . Meh, he may have liked him, he may not have. I haven't ever heard Shawn say anything bad about him. But if The Rock refused to work with Shawn, doesn't that look like The Rock hated Shawn, not the other way around?



This is bullshit and you know it. Shawn had absolutely nothing to do with Bret leaving to go to WCW. Hell, McMahon didn't even fire Hart, he told him to look at WCW if he wanted more money. Bret took the opportunity, and signed with WCW. Shawn was involved in Montreal, but he wasn't involved in Bret leaving.



Indeed. There isn't a single moment. A lot built up to it. But it did mainly revolve around Austin and The Rock. Hart and HBK had little involvement.

The Rock just didnt want to work with HBK for no reason. He didnt want to work with him because he didnt like him because he was a prat to him.

Well I would hardly say HBK was begging Vince to keep Bret? HBK was on the booking team at that point. He had alot of weight. Bret didn't care for the money. He just wanted Vince to make a commitment to him that he would treat him right.

I think the Attitude era had alot to do with Bret. His fued with Austin set up the boundaries for the era. That was the benchmark which fueds had to live up to. It was a great fued. Alot better than any HBK fued of the time. The Attitude era didnt have much to do with the Rock at the beginning though.

 

[HBK-aholic]

The Rock just didnt want to work with HBK for no reason. He didnt want to work with him because he didnt like him because he was a prat to him.

If this is the case, which I doubt, all this is doing is make The Rock sound like a crybaby. You've just badmouthed Shawn for being unprofessional and whatnot. Moaning "Well I won't work with him because he said bad things about me waa" sounds awful on The Rocks part.

Well I would hardly say HBK was begging Vince to keep Bret? HBK was on the booking team at that point. He had alot of weight. Bret didn't care for the money. He just wanted Vince to make a commitment to him that he would treat him right.

Shawn had absolutely nothing to do with what Vince did when he told Hart to look to WCW. It came down to McMahon not having the money to pay Bret what he had in the past, and McMahon thinking Hart was worth more. Nothing to do with Shawn. I'm surprised Hart fans think this actually, it's never come up before that I've seen.

I think the Attitude era had alot to do with Bret. His fued with Austin set up the boundaries for the era. That was the benchmark which fueds had to live up to. It was a great fued. Alot better than any HBK fued of the time. The Attitude era didnt have much to do with the Rock at the beginning though.

Please, it's one of the most overrated feuds of all time. None of their matches are great. Hell, Shawn is having a better feud now at the age of 43.

 

[Emmet]

If this is the case, which I doubt, all this is doing is make The Rock sound like a crybaby. You've just badmouthed Shawn for being unprofessional and whatnot. Moaning "Well I won't work with him because he said bad things about me waa" sounds awful on The Rocks part.



Shawn had absolutely nothing to do with what Vince did when he told Hart to look to WCW. It came down to McMahon not having the money to pay Bret what he had in the past, and McMahon thinking Hart was worth more. Nothing to do with Shawn. I'm surprised Hart fans think this actually, it's never come up before that I've seen.

I think the Rock wanted to be treated with respect just like everyone in life, but HBK didnt respect anyone other than the Clique and himself. When Bret went to a WWF show in mid 1999, the Rock asked Bret to come back, saying that and I quote ''Shawn isnt around anymore, me, Steve and Taker run things now''. Bret declined the offer. I doubt Rock would ever ask HBK to come back.

Please, it's one of the most overrated feuds of all time. None of their matches are great. Hell, Shawn is having a better feud now at the age of 43.[/

What? Are you having a laugh? Bret and Austin never had any great matches? There fued was overrated? Do you watch any other wrestling matches other than HBK matches? Aask any fan on here about Bret/Austin fued and they will tell you its easily one of the best fueds of the 1990s if not all time. Their WM 13 match was voted the best WM match of all time if I'm correct. That match was pure gold in storytelling. I have never seen anything like it since. It changed the whole industry in that liking the bad guy was the cool thing to do.

Y2J/HBK better than Bret/Austin? You trying to be a comedian?

 

[HBK-aholic]

I think the Rock wanted to be treated with respect just like everyone in life, but HBK didnt respect anyone other than the Clique and himself. When Bret went to a WWF show in mid 1999, the Rock asked Bret to come back, saying that and I quote ''Shawn isnt around anymore, me, Steve and Taker run things now''. Bret declined the offer. I doubt Rock would ever ask HBK to come back.

Proof?

Oh, and HBK > The Rock.

What? Are you having a laugh? Bret and Austin never had any great matches? There fued was overrated? Do you watch any other wrestling matches other than HBK matches? Aask any fan on here about Bret/Austin fued and they will tell you its easily one of the best fueds of the 1990s if not all time. Their WM 13 match was voted the best WM match of all time if I'm correct. That match was pure gold in storytelling. I have never seen anything like it since. It changed the whole industry in that liking the bad guy was the cool thing to do.


Y2J/HBK better than Bret/Austin? You trying to be a comedian?

[/QUOTE]

Hence the reason it's overrated. You just said it's possibly the greatest of all time. And it's not. There are so many great feuds I can't even pick the best one. And I'm not saying Hart/Austin wasn't good. But it is overrated. And you proved what I meant by saying that. Overrated doesn't mean shit. It just means not as good as people say.

And the WM 13 match is also overrated. A submission match with Shamrock as the special referee? Honestly? It was good, yeah. But I can name many better WM matches.

 

[Emmet]

Proof?

Oh, and HBK > The Rock.

Hence the reason it's overrated. You just said it's possibly the greatest of all time. And it's not. There are so many great feuds I can't even pick the best one. And I'm not saying Hart/Austin wasn't good. But it is overrated. And you proved what I meant by saying that. Overrated doesn't mean shit. It just means not as good as people say.

And the WM 13 match is also overrated. A submission match with Shamrock as the special referee? Honestly? It was good, yeah. But I can name many better WM matches.

Bret says so in his book. Thats proof enough for me. Bret's book is brutually hoenst if you havent read it. Unlike HBK's, which was a shower of shit. Just like the man himself.

How the hell in Gods green earth can you say that Austin/Bret fued wasnt one of the best? It made Austin into a main event player. The second biggest superstar in the history of wrestling. What has Shamrock got to do with anything? His UFC background if anything made the match more legit.

Name me some better matches. And no HBK matches please. Because not one of them holds up to this match. Except maybe his match with Bret at WM12.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Wow you're like my opposite . Except, I can accept that Bret had some great matches outside of ones with Shawn. You seem blissfully ignorant to Shawns matches. And this is the problem Montreal brought on fans today. They are too busy picking one side that they underestimate the other. Am I a huge HBK fan? Yes. But does that mean I can't appreciate the greatness Hart also had? No.

 

[Emmet]

Wow you're like my opposite . Except, I can accept that Bret had some great matches outside of ones with Shawn. You seem blissfully ignorant to Shawns matches. And this is the problem Montreal brought on fans today. They are too busy picking one side that they underestimate the other. Am I a huge HBK fan? Yes. But does that mean I can't appreciate the greatness Hart also had? No.

We are indeed!

Im not saying HBK hasnt had very good matches (I would be a moron to say otherwise) but none comes close to Bret/Austin in my opinion.

But hey we could fight all night about Bret/HBK and we would never be in agreement about anything .

 

[Mighty NorCal]

For goodness fucking sakes people. this may be the worst thread of all time. Listing, and a mod going immensley off topic with a regular. This is why i have so little hair in my head. I think I may just rip the skin off my face.