If wrestling were on premium cable channels (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime)

[Ubermensch]

I grew up watching wrestling, but the bulk of what I remember was watching wrestling during the Attitude era. During this time, WCW, but especially the WWF had edgier story lines.

My chief complaint about wrestling now is that lack of heat for matches. While I enjoy in ring performance; and can appreciate wrestlers with good move sets, the bottom line is that for us suspend reality long enough to believe these guys legitimately want to bash each other in, there has to be good motivation for it, aside from two guys just being put on the card together.

The WWE since the Attitude era has really been a watered down version of itself. In my opinion the last interesting thing they did was WCW invasion angle then things started going down south from there. Accordingly, the Attitude era did end roughly when the Invasion angle started. What product the WWE puts out now is reminiscent of what they were doing around 95 and 96, being somewhere in-between the say your prayers and eat your vitamins, and the Attitude era.

What I feel like Vince has done is smart, he has been able to target every demographic, from children to say middle aged people, without truly catering to one over the other.

However, I feel like there is still a market for edgier sports entertainment, reminiscent of Attitude era wrestling, ECW, and XPW (to a lesser extent).

If wrestling was a on a premium cable channel

1.) It would compete with the WWE; only indirectly. This would depend on the time slots obviously. However, in many ways HBO has a built in audience, and demographic already. Wrestling on a premium channel would largely draw new viewers to the sport.

2.) One of the chief complaints about the WWE bouncing around networks and receiving complaints was from concerned parents and sponsors. Said Premium Channel would not have these same concerns because they don't have sponsors, and reasonable parents know what to expect with late night shows on premium channels.

3.) You would see edgier story lines and more heat. This would be a large draw, and also see a fan return from many who remembered wrestling as different from what it is today. When the WWE has to worry about pushing the envelope, the Premium channel would have a show like Game of Thrones to benchmark against in terms of controversy. Story lines involving sex, drugs, race, and violence would more or less the norm compared to original premium channel programs. Feuds would be far more interesting, think Oz with a wrestling ring.

4.) Return of Hardcore wrestling. This is a big plus for me, as hardcore wrestling has largely gone all but extinct since the Attitude era ended. While you may not see Japanese Death Matches, you could at least see matches on par with what XPW was able to produce. One of the complaints about hardcore wrestling is the bloodshed associated with it, premium channels wouldn't have this problem.

5.) You wouldn't need established superstars. The promotion would save a great deal of money by ignoring the big money associated already established stars. Because this promotion would be meant as an alternative and something grittier than what the WWE has done, then they could shape and mold new up and coming talent to fit the mold of their product. In fact, already established wrestlers with established gimmicks would most likely be counterproductive to this end.

6.) Save money on venues. Because the promotion would be centered around Television revenues, there would be a decreased focus on large and expensive venues for the show to be taped. Televised shows could be in large mid sized cities like Columbus GA or the like.

Such a program wouldn't be expected to compete with the WWE for viewership, it need only be profitable. The aim would be to take away or portion of the WWE audience, and establish new viewership, and viewership that left the sport after the Attitude era.

For the 3 channels mentioned, two of them (that I know of) are already in sports with HBO being the major boxing supplier, and Showtime having their own boxing brand. The UFC has made boxing a fledgling sport, and confirmed our inclinations that wrestling was fake. Wrestling can and has adapted based on in ring and out of ring theatrics. In short, for the show to be a success, it would only have to compliment the lineups for whatever channel it ended up on.

 

[Slash-LN]

Edginess doesn't always equal a better product. You still need a good roster that can make things work. If it comes off as cheesy and and edgy for the sake of trying to be edgy it's not going to work. Look at Ken Anderson in TNA when he was doing the asshole gimmick. It got old by like the second week.

Hardcore wrestling was a fad that got popular for a short time and then lost steam. It's still around in several indie promotions but there's a reason none of them have ever become nationally based companies.
If there was a strong market for that kind of stuff a company like CZW probably would have already struck a deal like this by now. There's a niche audience for it but there's not a strong enough fan base for a company like HBO to take a chance on it. And if they did they would probably air it at like 2 a.m. when hardly anyone would see it.

You also have to remember that not all long time fans started watching in the Attitude era. There are the ones like myself who started watching in the late '80s who know what it was like to go through that period before wrestling changed. The attitude era for people like me is just one segment through various changes in the product. While several wrestlers I like came out of that era I don't credit the blood and over the top story lines for what made that era good. As mentioned earlier you had to have good wrestlers to convey everything. The Rock wasn't popular because he cussed. The Rock was popular because he was able to entertain the crowd and draw them in with what he had to say. A guy like Kurt Angle or Chris Jericho didn't need the edginess of the Attitude era to get over. They could have debuted in the PG era and still gotten over because they're that good.

Did having less restraints help a few guys get over? Sure. Steve Austin probably benefited the most from it. But Steve Austin probably could have had success without it too. I'm sure that point can be largely debated but Austin was already moving up in WCW until they decided to stop pushing him and labeled him as someone who would never be anything more than a mid card guy.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I grew up watching wrestling, but the bulk of what I remember was watching wrestling during the Attitude era. During this time, WCW, but especially the WWF had edgier story lines.

My chief complaint about wrestling now is that lack of heat for matches. While I enjoy in ring performance; and can appreciate wrestlers with good move sets, the bottom line is that for us suspend reality long enough to believe these guys legitimately want to bash each other in, there has to be good motivation for it, aside from two guys just being put on the card together.

It's no harder to suspend disbelief now than it was 20 years ago. The only difference is that the internet is around, fans are older and everyone views everything in life as being better "in the old days." I knew wrestling was "fake" when I was 10 years old. I'm 33 now and enjoy it every bit as much as I did then. A big part of that is because I WANT to enjoy it. I WANT to be entertained and it's a lot easier to do that if I don't watch just for the sake of nitpicking every little thing, playing armchair booker or get upset because they don't do exactly what I think they should.

However, I feel like there is still a market for edgier sports entertainment, reminiscent of Attitude era wrestling, ECW, and XPW (to a lesser extent).

If wrestling was a on a premium cable channel

1.) It would compete with the WWE; only indirectly. This would depend on the time slots obviously. However, in many ways HBO has a built in audience, and demographic already. Wrestling on a premium channel would largely draw new viewers to the sport.

2.) One of the chief complaints about the WWE bouncing around networks and receiving complaints was from concerned parents and sponsors. Said Premium Channel would not have these same concerns because they don't have sponsors, and reasonable parents know what to expect with late night shows on premium channels.

3.) You would see edgier story lines and more heat. This would be a large draw, and also see a fan return from many who remembered wrestling as different from what it is today. When the WWE has to worry about pushing the envelope, the Premium channel would have a show like Game of Thrones to benchmark against in terms of controversy. Story lines involving sex, drugs, race, and violence would more or less the norm compared to original premium channel programs. Feuds would be far more interesting, think Oz with a wrestling ring.

4.) Return of Hardcore wrestling. This is a big plus for me, as hardcore wrestling has largely gone all but extinct since the Attitude era ended. While you may not see Japanese Death Matches, you could at least see matches on par with what XPW was able to produce. One of the complaints about hardcore wrestling is the bloodshed associated with it, premium channels wouldn't have this problem.

5.) You wouldn't need established superstars. The promotion would save a great deal of money by ignoring the big money associated already established stars. Because this promotion would be meant as an alternative and something grittier than what the WWE has done, then they could shape and mold new up and coming talent to fit the mold of their product. In fact, already established wrestlers with established gimmicks would most likely be counterproductive to this end.

6.) Save money on venues. Because the promotion would be centered around Television revenues, there would be a decreased focus on large and expensive venues for the show to be taped. Televised shows could be in large mid sized cities like Columbus GA or the like.

Such a program wouldn't be expected to compete with the WWE for viewership, it need only be profitable. The aim would be to take away or portion of the WWE audience, and establish new viewership, and viewership that left the sport after the Attitude era.

For the 3 channels mentioned, two of them (that I know of) are already in sports with HBO being the major boxing supplier, and Showtime having their own boxing brand. The UFC has made boxing a fledgling sport, and confirmed our inclinations that wrestling was fake. Wrestling can and has adapted based on in ring and out of ring theatrics. In short, for the show to be a success, it would only have to compliment the lineups for whatever channel it ended up on.

The Attitude Era is over & done with. With the way society itself is these days, no company could get away with half of what went on in the Attitude Era without offending fans. If any television show these days does something to piss someone off, some asshole decides to make a federal case out of it. As for having it on a premium channel, the difference between boxing and wrestling is boxing is a legit sport without predetermined outcomes. Another factor is that WWE is a highly recognized name & brand, it's what comes to the minds of most people when they think of wrestling. Another factor is that HBO & Showtime base most of their audience around showing blockbuster films and critically acclaimed shows. They're not going to alter the "credible" image they've built for themselves by adding a pro wrestling company to things. As for Cinemax, it'd be a laughing stock. Hell, all Cinemax shows after 10 pm are softcore titty movies. That's how it earned the nickname "Skinemax."

One reason why WWE makes so much money is because WWE has established stars that people want to see. Just simply putting a wrestling company on Showtime featuring wrestlers that nobody knows isn't some automatic, guaranteed money maker. Ultimately, for all intents & purposes, you're saying that you basically want an ECW style wrestling company on Showtime, HBO or Cinemax because they can get away with more. Hardcore wrestling like in ECW is part of the reason why so many wrestlers have been dropping dead at young ages or abusing drugs in order to cope with injuries they've sustained in performing insanely dangerous spots for $50.

Whether some like it or not, any wrestling company that lands anything approaching a major television deal is going to be compared to WWE and will be viewed as competing with it. For any wrestling company that comes along or already exist, simply being put on a channel where they can swear all they want, maybe flash a few tits here & there, having guys dive off 20 foot balconies through flaming tables and hope for the best isn't a strategy for success.

 

[Ubermensch]

I am not wanting ECW back. Hardcore matches are only entertaining because when done sparingly. When every match you have is hardcore it's a recipe for monotony and inevitably you push the envelope to the edge of the table. What I am saying is that true hardcore matches could be brought back, versus Vince worrying about offending little joey's mommy with a little blood.

You can say you want to suspend your belief all you want. However, I guarantee it's difficult for you to bite on a feud between a guy pretending to be a Repo Man and a Witch Doctor. When the early 1997 WWF had the Nation of Domination as a black panther moniker feuding with the Disciples of Apocalypse resembling the Hell's Angels biker gang, that is entertaining. When the WWE tries to convince you that someone pretending to be Salsa dancer wants to wrestle a matador, that is not entertaining now matter how much you want to watch it.

It's a difficult argument to make when late 90's wrestling drew more ratings that it does now. Furthermore, there is clearly a place for edgy story lines in original television shows on HBO, Showtime, and Cinemax.

HBO gets better profit margins with their own original programming than buying the rights to a movie someone has already made.

Yes the shock value of the swearing, more skin etc. is not a recipe for success. However, the story lines, and action are. For years to come the WWE will always live under the shadow of what it was during the Attitude era.

You can say that people don't want to watch gritty dramas, however the programs I mentioned above like Game of Thrones, Oz, and Sopranos, were highly successful. That is why you can lump a gritty wrestling promotion in with them and see it be profitable.

I don't see the WWE being a product of a more reserved culture. Again, you can look at the success of these kind of dramas to see people are entertained by drama and violence. Furthermore, you can look at the current roster in the WWE and see that it's more cartoonish and unrealistic than what the NWA put out in the late 80s.