If NXT were on Raw, you'd hate it

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Lots of people say things like "NXT is better than Raw" "the NXT PPV was better than the WWE PPV". All the time. No, no they were not. NXT generally has a squash, a couple of TV quality matches, then a solid main event. Raws have a lot of shit you might not like (because it's 3 hours long as has to appeal to a broader audience) but there are better matches on Raw. The WWE PPV may have a match you're not as interested in, but they usually have 2-3 that are above what they do on NXT. A HUGE part of the appeal of NXT to a lot of people is simply that it isn't "mainstream" that it isn't "popular" that it isn't on Raw.


My point in this isn't me arguing that Raw is better, that the PPVs are better. Because that's subjective. My point is that this community has a culture where anything successful or "mainstream" is shit on. Anything underground is given a much wider room for acceptance. If you were to put a squash match on a PPV, you'd shit on it.

So I guess the discussion is me asking why is it like that? Why are things shit on (Bray Wyatt) as soon as they're successful? People on here are saying Ambrose/Wyatt are getting buried or downgraded despite them main eventing. It blows my mind. I don't understand that mindset.

I get that this is kind of an echo chamber "lol 5 movez of teh doom" but come on. I can't be the only person to be a bit irritated by the sort of hipster mindset that's so prevalent. Why does this happen? Why are people so harsh on successful product but open minded about less popular products? I love NXT. I watch NXT with the same open mindedness that I watch Raw and PPVs.

What's funny is I get so many people asking me "why do you defend the WWE"? Because I enjoy the product. I enjoy TV shows I watch and keep an open mind with where the story is going. Is it that hard to understand? Is it that hard to keep an open mind for both the successful products/characters and the upcoming characters/shows?

 

[Just Zay'n]

No, this community does not have a culture where anything successful or mainstream is shit on.

I was watching some old Austin/Rock promos/matches, I was feeling particularly nostalgic that day. And yep - the main product today is a steaming pile of crap. I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons people still watch is that they hope to see it return to the quality that it once was.

NXT is better in every respect. Not most aspects - every aspect. The wrestling, the promos, the characters, the charisma, the mic skills, the energy and excitement, the freshness, the crowd interaction. Every aspect.

 

[Broski_of_the_week]

Gonna have to disagree with both of you guys here in a way, Firstly, the OP is way off the mark when claiming Raw has better matches etc, because it is so formulaic now that you may get one 4 or 5 star match on raw every 3 months (considering the number of matches per show that is a very low percentage), whereas you are getting, most of the time, a 4 or 5 star match a fortnight from NXT.

A really important reason why NXT is better too is the conciseness of it, which comes down in part to a top quality announce team. No storyline or angle is forgotten on NXT, whereas on Raw, most storylines and angles are barely even remembered as Cole shouts 'signature phrases' and plugs the network, JBL buries half the roster and Jerry Lawler barely seems aware theres a wrestling show in front of him.

The only reason I disagree with 'Just Zay'n' is that he says this community does not have a culture of shitting on mainstream success. Because it does. Wrestling fans seem to be hipsters at heart because as soon as something turns mainstream, then the 'IWC', or at least a fraction of it, turns. Even the D Bryan push had this happen, when he was in Team Hell No and just moving into the main event picture there was not a bad comment on here and then as time went on, there were numerous accounts popping up from supposed non-trolling 'big guy enthusiasts' who made constant references to Bryan being a midget and a joke, yada yada yada. If it happens about the (arguably) best wrestler in the world and the hottest act of the time, then there is definitely a case of the IWC turning on the mainstream.

 

[Just Zay'n]

The only reason I disagree with 'Just Zay'n' is that he says this community does not have a culture of shitting on mainstream success. Because it does. Wrestling fans seem to be hipsters at heart because as soon as something turns mainstream, then the 'IWC', or at least a fraction of it, turns. Even the D Bryan push had this happen, when he was in Team Hell No and just moving into the main event picture there was not a bad comment on here and then as time went on, there were numerous accounts popping up from supposed non-trolling 'big guy enthusiasts' who made constant references to Bryan being a midget and a joke, yada yada yada. If it happens about the (arguably) best wrestler in the world and the hottest act of the time, then there is definitely a case of the IWC turning on the mainstream.

I don't think they're turning though just for the sake of going against the mainstream. I reckon the perfect example is Bray Wyatt. He hasn't been booked overly well, his feuds have been on the uninteresting side, and he's already getting repetitive and stale... of course fans will turn on him, and it's not his fault, it's the WWE writers' fault. The whole anti-Cena mentality is not anti-mainstream for the sake of it, and not necessarily directed toward the guy himself, but more the idea that WWE hasn't given us a breath of fresh air for almost a decade and refuses to build their other characters up to the same level. He is the personification of the WWE being stuck in a rut.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Lots of people say things like "NXT is better than Raw" "the NXT PPV was better than the WWE PPV". All the time. No, no they were not. NXT generally has a squash, a couple of TV quality matches, then a solid main event. Raws have a lot of shit you might not like (because it's 3 hours long as has to appeal to a broader audience) but there are better matches on Raw. The WWE PPV may have a match you're not as interested in, but they usually have 2-3 that are above what they do on NXT.

This is pacing.

Assuming we're going to say, for the sake of argument, that, I dunno, Ziggler versus Harper was better than Neville versus Zayn (which is normally the sort of thing I'll only agree to if my testicles are hooked up to a car battery) and was only let down by certain other elements of TLC&S - this doesn't mean that TLC&S was a better show than R-Evolution. In this example, R-Evolution was decent from top to bottom, whereas TLC&S was only good in fits and starts. Why is it unreasonable, therefore, to claim that R-Evolution was the better show?

Take this ridiculous analogy: I fancy a steak. There's this new steak restaurant down the road that supposedly does a great steak but, because they're French or something, they also take a shit on the plate, which I have to eat, because it's considered rude in France not to eat shit. Alternatively, I can get a steak from Sainsbury's, which might not be as good, but I don't have to eat any shit.

Pacing is a big part of the reason why NXT is better than 'regular' WWE. In NXT, I haven't seen five iterations of every match they have to offer. I haven't seen the same talent on four shows in one week. Everything's given time to come together, to be built up properly and to be written so everybody has an understandable motive. Because NXT has a single one-hour show every week and a live two-hour show about every three months.

It's not the only reason NXT is better and I don't actually agree that WWE's high points are higher than NXT's.

 

[OYDK]

It's not just the IWC that think NXT is better than Raw, it's basically the entire wrestling community. You have people like The Rock, HHH, Mick Foley, and Jim Ross praising NXT and the NXT "rookies" almost every single NXT show. When was the last time somebody outright praised RAW for being an amazing show? I really get annoyed when people lump a small minority of hipster trolls, to the entire IWC... Yea SOME people will shit on anything that becomes "mainstream" because they think it makes them cool, but the majority of us, believe it or not, actually have an opinion for a legitimate reason... shocker, I know.

Speaking as somebody who enjoys the majority of Raw, I have to say that NXT is a much more entertaining show. Maybe its because Raw is 3 hours, maybe it's because the NXT wrestlers actually give a damn, but I'm always on the edge of my seat during an NXT event. As for Raw; I can enjoy it, but I wouldn't say I'm all that excited for it.

 

[The Captain]

Heres the difference. THE CROWD. If they broadcast RAW every monday live in front of those 1500 crazy super passionate wrestling fans at full sail the show would have so much more energy.... and that rubs off on the performers in the ring..

Now i do believe that as of late NXT is churning out a better product, regardless of the crowd, but thats not saying the main roster can't provide the same quality matches, they're just catering to a different (and more difficult) audience.

You have to perform your art in front of an audience who appreciates the art form. To me, michaelangelos david is just a big naked statue. And to your average RAW crowd of 15,000 people, a Cesaro match is a reason to take a leak. Bingo

 

[sMark]

This is Ascention promo for NXT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8p57dg2o1c

This is Ascention promo for WWE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhrH9_aYmAI

I think these 2 videos represents the difference between the brands very well. This also explains why most wrestling fans praise NXT over RAW these days.

Heres the difference. THE CROWD. If they broadcast RAW every monday live in front of those 1500 crazy super passionate wrestling fans at full sail the show would have so much more energy.... and that rubs off on the performers in the ring..

I don't think anyone from this NXT crowd will be full of energy for The Bunny, Cena's 20 minutes about nothing promos or some stupid guest hosts.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Lots of people say things like "NXT is better than Raw" "the NXT PPV was better than the WWE PPV". All the time. No, no they were not. NXT generally has a squash, a couple of TV quality matches, then a solid main event. Raws have a lot of shit you might not like (because it's 3 hours long as has to appeal to a broader audience) but there are better matches on Raw. The WWE PPV may have a match you're not as interested in, but they usually have 2-3 that are above what they do on NXT. A HUGE part of the appeal of NXT to a lot of people is simply that it isn't "mainstream" that it isn't "popular" that it isn't on Raw.


My point in this isn't me arguing that Raw is better, that the PPVs are better. Because that's subjective. My point is that this community has a culture where anything successful or "mainstream" is shit on. Anything underground is given a much wider room for acceptance. If you were to put a squash match on a PPV, you'd shit on it.

So I guess the discussion is me asking why is it like that? Why are things shit on (Bray Wyatt) as soon as they're successful? People on here are saying Ambrose/Wyatt are getting buried or downgraded despite them main eventing. It blows my mind. I don't understand that mindset.

I get that this is kind of an echo chamber "lol 5 movez of teh doom" but come on. I can't be the only person to be a bit irritated by the sort of hipster mindset that's so prevalent. Why does this happen? Why are people so harsh on successful product but open minded about less popular products? I love NXT. I watch NXT with the same open mindedness that I watch Raw and PPVs.

What's funny is I get so many people asking me "why do you defend the WWE"? Because I enjoy the product. I enjoy TV shows I watch and keep an open mind with where the story is going. Is it that hard to understand? Is it that hard to keep an open mind for both the successful products/characters and the upcoming characters/shows?

All in all, as of right now, I do think that NXT is the better overall product. That certainly hasn't always been the case, it wasn't the case 6 months ago and it's only really become the case in the past 3 months or so in my opinion. During the final few months of the year, the WWE product generally loses steam as a whole because of other competition on television, other considerations like the upcoming holidays, a lack of interest in creative decisions or some combination of those factors. Within the next couple of months, you'll still have some people hating on WWE like they always do but they'll almost certainly be outweighed by praise for the product.

Would some hate on NXT if it became more "mainstream?" Absolutely. When it pertains to WWE, any aspect of the company or any wrestlers that's moving up in the world tends to get a good amount of hate whereas those aspects and/or wrestlers were all the rage when they were less exposed or lower down on the card. How many times have there been threads stating that so & so deserves to be pushed only for twice as many to pop up ragging on the guy if he does get pushed? Some fans would also rag on some wrestlers because they don't like how they look or whatever. I mean, you don't see a lot of bodybuilder types in NXT or a ton of guys who're just generally jacked up.

One thing about NXT, however, is that they do usually make the most of the time they've got. Just about anything that happens on the NXT program does have a purpose. For instance, even the squash matches we've seen has been slowly building towards an eventual collision between Bull Dempsey and Baron Corbin. Their matches are still squashes, but they're over with in less than a minute and aren't meant just to eat up air time. There's no "sports entertainment" filler going on, though there's no guarantee that there wouldn't be any every so often if the show went to 2 hours, but I'm fine with a little harmless filler every once in a while. The problem is when there's too much and, as of late, there's too much on the main roster. Tomorrow night, for instance, there'll probably be a lot of segments with some sort of sports entertainment/Christmas stuff going on. One segment on that'd be fine, but there'll probably be more than one and there'll probably be one or two holiday themed gimmick matches with the commentators out there cracking lame jokes or some other nonsense. The only real difference between NXT & the main roster are the men making the final booking decisions: Triple H in NXT and Vince on the main roster.

IF Triple H ultimately takes Vince's spot someday and IF NXT is a representation of WWE as a whole under Triple H's regime then, personally, I'm all for it. For the most part, it's not just internet fans who're complaining. There are more casual fans who believe NXT is better, dirt sheet writers, wrestling insiders, some WWE stockholders and, if reports are accurate, a good deal of the WWE's main roster.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I love NXT.

Your words. Do you love WWE? Do you live Raw? Do you love Raw in the autumn? Did you love TLC? Do you love Smackdown? Did you love Survivor Series? If I search on the word "love" and your username over the past three months will anything come up besides "NXT"?

While I agree that fans are more likely to express enjoyment for things that are new and different, I don't think that expression is disengenious. Sure putting the NXT product on Raw in a three hour format with a ton more restriction and obligation would make it worse for a lot of fans but regardless, I think people genuinely find NXT more enjoyable.

But guess what? NXT is supposed to be better and Vince would appreciate it if you would continue the unanimous level of support for it. They are trying to sell this network and NXT is basically exclusive to the network. With NXT as more of a separate brand as opposed to the "developmental" tag it had been labeled, WWE is clearly making a play to get the IWC fan. They are giving a very specific type of show led by past Indy darlings, international names, and a few newbies worth checking out. Raw is just killing time waiting to get to WM season.

 

[Kidpolean]

I would bet my bank that NXT would get worse ratings if it replaced raw. NXT isnt an very "entertaining" show, its pretty much pure wrestling just like ROH. This is why we, the IWC, love it so much. Plus the fact that the crowd is amazing and the roster is a collection of people we've loved and watched in the Indy's for years. Raw is on tv, and HAS to appeal to all of the WWE universe which NXT does not. Raw has WAY better mic workers, way better backstage segments, way more charismatic wrestlers...there is a reason these guys are on raw. The only difference is that the matches are better on NXT, but this is a product of having long matches and freedom to do whatever move you want. Like I said, give Ziggler and Rollins 30 mins with no move restrictions and nobody on NXT could touch them. I love NXT, but the only person on their that I could say is actually better than average and unique is Charlotte. Zayn and Neville are great, but the WWE has like 10 guys that can do what they do. On raw in 5-10 min matches against veterans where they can just call any spot they want, they will simply look like Evan Bourne or Tyson Kidd. I'd take Ambrose/Rollins over anybody in NXT and its not even close.

 

[Darkshadow1234]

I wouldnt hate if nxt was on raw. NXt is the best show out right now. Better than raw and smackdown.
Raw has better production value. Thats about it.
NXt beats raw in everything else.
Promos are raw aren't good, neither is the wrestling or most of the wrestlers.

Ill take the nxt wrestlers over raw any day of the week.

 

[rmp0012002]

As a "wrestling" fan NXT is the better show because it is promoted that way while Raw is "entertainment" and is marketed to people that don't mind watching two to two and half hours of crap and very little wrestling. Raw and WWE in general does not see the people that go to shows as fans but as consumers that are not very bright and can be sold anything, whether an actual product or storyline.
NXT tries to give a bit of legitimacy to what you are watching instead of one week having guys that are thought to be major players and then in a matter of a week are now jobbing to guys that are jobbers and you're not suppose to question it.
If someone watches Raw and enjoys it i don't have a problem with it but I grew up on old school wrestling and Raw just doesn't give me that.
As far a hating something just because it has gone mainstream is crap, it's hated because the product changed. The example I'll give is Metallica. People would slam me because I listened to Metallica in the 80's but once the Black album came out and they became mainstream and people that hated that music had now jumped on the bandwagon I became a hater. Not because those people now enjoyed it but because they changed their music to cater to those people. Wrestling is the same.

 

[Cats Pajamas]

In my case, OP is probably right on the money. It's definitely not groundbreaking television by any means, but watching NXT has been like being brand new to wrestling again.... err, kinda. There's different talent getting opportunities to carry the show which is half the reason I like NXT. I don't dislike Cena, but I am sick of seeing his constipated chimp face on tv week in and week out. See? It builds resentment.

Secondly, NXT is bite sized which restricts the amount of crap they produce for one show. No t.v. show should be three hours long nevermind that Raw couldn't even have two good hours a week in its previous format.

Most NXT guys are going to move on to the big leagues (as they should) and when they do I'll probably still think Raw is a total shit show. Well put, OP.

 

[d_henderson1810]

No, this community does not have a culture where anything successful or mainstream is shit on.

I was watching some old Austin/Rock promos/matches, I was feeling particularly nostalgic that day. And yep - the main product today is a steaming pile of crap. I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons people still watch is that they hope to see it return to the quality that it once was.

NXT is better in every respect. Not most aspects - every aspect. The wrestling, the promos, the characters, the charisma, the mic skills, the energy and excitement, the freshness, the crowd interaction. Every aspect.

You ONLY like the old stuff, because it is old.

For everyone who says that they love the AE, I wonder how many of you shitted on it in its day as well. There just wasn't an internet (or it wasn't as popular) as it is today, so he weren't exposed to your whinging. In 15 years time, you will feel nostalgic and praise this current era, as well, and say how it is better. Wrestling fans always think the past is better. Today's wrestling is never as good as past eras, because, to admit that you like current WWE stuff, is to admit that you like WWE, and how can you be a sheep on this board, if you like something others here hate.

You like NXT because it is cool

 

[d_henderson1810]

I don't think they're turning though just for the sake of going against the mainstream. I reckon the perfect example is Bray Wyatt. He hasn't been booked overly well, his feuds have been on the uninteresting side, and he's already getting repetitive and stale... of course fans will turn on him, and it's not his fault, it's the WWE writers' fault. The whole anti-Cena mentality is not anti-mainstream for the sake of it, and not necessarily directed toward the guy himself, but more the idea that WWE hasn't given us a breath of fresh air for almost a decade and refuses to build their other characters up to the same level. He is the personification of the WWE being stuck in a rut.

YOU choose to accept a character or not. Stop blaming WWE for how you CHOOSE to react. It's not their fault that you are fickle.

If WWE can be criticized for not booking someone right, then you have to praise them for creating stars as well. If you bag them for bad writing, then you have to praise the writers when a storyline makes a guy a star. If you blame WWE for never building stars, you need to credit them when they do, and not turn on the guy the first time he loses a match.

You can't have it both ways. You either put all responsibility for the creation and use of superstars on WWE, both good and bad, or on yourself, good or bad. If you are quick to criticize, you have to offer an alternative, and you need to be just as quick to commend, or else you come across as a hater.

Why is it that when a superstar like SCSA or Zack Ryder, gets over, it is all the superstar's own doing, despite WWE creative. Yet when Zack Ryder fails, it is WWE's fault. It is either Zack Ryder who made Zack Ryder, or the WWE, or the fan's, or all three. Those are your options, and whichever one you pick, you have to give credit when due, and criticism when due.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Heres the difference. THE CROWD. If they broadcast RAW every monday live in front of those 1500 crazy super passionate wrestling fans at full sail the show would have so much more energy.... and that rubs off on the performers in the ring..

Now i do believe that as of late NXT is churning out a better product, regardless of the crowd, but thats not saying the main roster can't provide the same quality matches, they're just catering to a different (and more difficult) audience.

You have to perform your art in front of an audience who appreciates the art form. To me, michaelangelos david is just a big naked statue. And to your average RAW crowd of 15,000 people, a Cesaro match is a reason to take a leak. Bingo

Guess who else performed in front of small and vocal crowds, who else was being touted as better than WWE at the time, whose crowd's atmosphere was so much better?

ECW!

Remind where ECW is now. That's right, they went broke. The fans loved it, but there wasn't enough of them to sustain things long-term.

You guys are full of bullshit because you praise NXT, but do you put money into your pocket to go to shows, or do you just watch them on stolen internet feed? You people praise ROH, but if ROH was SO much better than WWE, then why aren't they in a Monday Night War with them?

The fact is, NXT is nothing without WWE. NOTHING! Have NXT fund itself. Let's see how long it lasts.

I bet too, that the superstars and divas on NXT want to be on "Raw" or "Smackdown". Are they wrong to want that? If NXT is better, why wouldn't they be happy staying where they are, doing spotfests every night? Why would they be happy to be on mainstream TV and PPVs, when they can perform on NXT? Which would a NXT performer prefer? Being on the next NXT Takeover, or having a match, no matter what type, at Wrestlemania XXXI?

If people don't think WWE is better, then how come they make more money?

The defense rests, your Honor!

 

[d_henderson1810]

This is Ascention promo for NXT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8p57dg2o1c

This is Ascention promo for WWE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhrH9_aYmAI

I think these 2 videos represents the difference between the brands very well. This also explains why most wrestling fans praise NXT over RAW these days.


I don't think anyone from this NXT crowd will be full of energy for The Bunny, Cena's 20 minutes about nothing promos or some stupid guest hosts.

I'd rather be Demolition ripoffs, like the WWE Ascension look to be, and be on TV every week, rather than be a generic team in NXT, who will be forgotten about, and broken up eventually, because they got lost in the shuffle of tag-teams where the Usos get shoved down our throats, and Goldust and Stardust and Miz and Mizdow get more attention then two spotmonkeys do.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Your words. Do you love WWE? Do you live Raw? Do you love Raw in the autumn? Did you love TLC? Do you love Smackdown? Did you love Survivor Series? If I search on the word "love" and your username over the past three months will anything come up besides "NXT"?

While I agree that fans are more likely to express enjoyment for things that are new and different, I don't think that expression is disengenious. Sure putting the NXT product on Raw in a three hour format with a ton more restriction and obligation would make it worse for a lot of fans but regardless, I think people genuinely find NXT more enjoyable.

But guess what? NXT is supposed to be better and Vince would appreciate it if you would continue the unanimous level of support for it. They are trying to sell this network and NXT is basically exclusive to the network. With NXT as more of a separate brand as opposed to the "developmental" tag it had been labeled, WWE is clearly making a play to get the IWC fan. They are giving a very specific type of show led by past Indy darlings, international names, and a few newbies worth checking out. Raw is just killing time waiting to get to WM season.

The funny thing is, most who praise NXT actually don't even subscribe to WWE Network. I bet they rip it off the internet illegally, so that they don't pay a cent to WWE.

You WWE haters have made your point. WWE is weak, throw them in the creek. NXT is strong, like King Kong. I get it. Now, why don't you people go off and watch some illegally downloaded NXT or "Game Of Thrones" and jerk off to that, and stop wasting your and our time posting here about a company like WWE you care nothing about, and have nothing nice to say about. Either you are in or out, so either keep watching WWE, keep posting here, and admit that you actually secretly love WWE, or stop commenting, because how could you know what happens on Raw if you don't watch it?

 

[rmp0012002]

Guess who else performed in front of small and vocal crowds, who else was being touted as better than WWE at the time, whose crowd's atmosphere was so much better?

ECW!

Remind where ECW is now. That's right, they went broke. The fans loved it, but there wasn't enough of them to sustain things long-term.

You guys are full of bullshit because you praise NXT, but do you put money into your pocket to go to shows, or do you just watch them on stolen internet feed? You people praise ROH, but if ROH was SO much better than WWE, then why aren't they in a Monday Night War with them?

The fact is, NXT is nothing without WWE. NOTHING! Have NXT fund itself. Let's see how long it lasts.

I bet too, that the superstars and divas on NXT want to be on "Raw" or "Smackdown". Are they wrong to want that? If NXT is better, why wouldn't they be happy staying where they are, doing spotfests every night? Why would they be happy to be on mainstream TV and PPVs, when they can perform on NXT? Which would a NXT performer prefer? Being on the next NXT Takeover, or having a match, no matter what type, at Wrestlemania XXXI?

The defense rests, your Honor!

You're just rambling now. NXT just like FCW and the WWE's connections to SMW and OVW are and were designed for developing wrestlers not as competition to Raw. I can see you are the soap opera reality tv viewer and that's what Raw provides for you but as for us wrestling fans we want to see wrestling not three hours of General Hospital. Enjoy what you want but don't slam someone just because they don't enjoy what you do.

 

[d_henderson1810]

You're just rambling now. NXT just like FCW and the WWE's connections to SMW and OVW are and were designed for developing wrestlers not as competition to Raw. I can see you are the soap opera reality tv viewer and that's what Raw provides for you but as for us wrestling fans we want to see wrestling not three hours of General Hospital. Enjoy what you want but don't slam someone just because they don't enjoy what you do.

You see, that's where you don't it.

If you only cared about "wrestling", then why not watch Olympic wrestling? That is wrestling in its purest form.

Professional wrestling is catered to more than just the in-ring product. It is flashy costumes, it is lights and action, it is drama, it is theatre.

Wrestling matches, to me, are more than the match itself. It needs context. Why do these guys want to fight? Why do they hate each other? Give no answer to these questions, and you end up with a bunch of matches, attractive, but with no substance.

Wrestling IS a soap opera? It is the ultimate male soap opera. I get as excited about a return of someone who hasn't been around for years, as a soap fan does when a favourite character returns after being killed off yet again.

Think about if you would enjoy a movie if it had no storyline. Wrestling has a protagonist, an antagonist and a reason for them to meet. It is the basics of all good stories. It is a goodie, a baddie and everything on the line with the result.

Why buy a PPV if it is a bunch of matches? Why pit Wrestler A against Wrestler B?

Imagine if Austin/McMahon had no storyline? What if they were just thrown into the cage match at SVDM? Great match, but it meant more because it had heat to it. Everyone wanted to see Austin get his hands on McMahon for all the heinous things he did to him. If they just met in a match, great match, but big deal. But it was better because it was a culmination of a year's worth of stories.

 

[Papa Pillman]

This is Ascention promo for NXT:

This is Ascention promo for WWE:
I think these 2 videos represents the difference between the brands very well. This also explains why most wrestling fans praise NXT over RAW these days.

This IS NOT a fair comparison.

That NXT vignette for the Ascension is two years old and it was before Kenneth Cameron got arrested and cut. They were using a completely different gimmick. It was some quasi-"Interview With a Vampire" type of shit. Like the WWE's attempt to recreate "The Brood".

That gimmick was dropped when Viktor came on. And the duo had seemed to start to move toward having less of a defined gimmick at all. The name "Ascension", and the promise that they will rise, the Eye of Horus imagery, the "Fall Of Man" finisher name- it all feels very Apocalyptic, yet they weren't really embracing it any way as characters. This new strategy to present them seemingly as something post-apocalyptic with shades of Mad Max embraces everything perfectly and makes a ton of sense.

Now the decision to take that one step further and heavy-handedly douse it with bottles of 80's Nostalgia by going the full L.O.D. parody direction with them is the matter that is debatable.

I actually really like the idea. I think Konnor and Viktor have the chops to pull it off, and I think it finally gives the Ascension something that will help them standout at the main roster level. Call me crazy, but I expect this gimmick to get over.

As for comparing this to the pre-Viktor version; without Kenneth Cameron that version of the Ascension gimmick was doomed, "Connor O'Brian" was a side character in that act. I also think that version of the Ascension was set up to be an eventual fail that was aimed to capitalize on the "vampire craze". This new presentation for the Ascension stands more of a chance by playing to classic pure pro wrestling nostalgia, but also in a way that still fits what we know about the current incarnation of the team, at least enough so that it comes off as more of a tweak than it does a repackage.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Your assumption is incorrect. It isn't just IWC guys, the majority of major Industry analysts say it is a better show as well. Maybe, it simply IS a better show?

NXT is simply formatted and presented much differently than RAW is, and in a way many hardcore wrestling fans prefer. That, and you admitted yourself, there is a ton of "shit" on RAW. This is not something I fault RAW for...it has different things to accomplish than NXT does, and different demographics to appeal to. It also has three live hours per week to fill, wereas NXT has the advantages of being taped, one hour shows. It is no giant defeat that a show with pronounced advantages for providing more quality from minute one to minute 58 ends up doing just exactly that.

Even if RAW's matches WERE better (I would strongly disagree), they are utterly meaningless, and have all been put in front of us one thousand times.

 

[Just Zay'n]

You ONLY like the old stuff, because it is old.

For everyone who says that they love the AE, I wonder how many of you shitted on it in its day as well. There just wasn't an internet (or it wasn't as popular) as it is today, so he weren't exposed to your whinging. In 15 years time, you will feel nostalgic and praise this current era, as well, and say how it is better. Wrestling fans always think the past is better. Today's wrestling is never as good as past eras, because, to admit that you like current WWE stuff, is to admit that you like WWE, and how can you be a sheep on this board, if you like something others here hate.

You like NXT because it is cool

It's got nothing to do with being nostalgic or not, in fact I started watching right at the end of the Attitude Era, so I just missed pretty much all of the SCSA/Rock stuff. But after watching those matches and promos later on, it became overwhelmingly clear as to what the better product was. There's no comparison really. And no, it's not that I think the old stuff is better just for being old - to be perfectly honest, I find most of the really old stuff (like 80s - early 90s old) pretty boring.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Your assumption is incorrect. It isn't just IWC guys, the majority of major Industry analysts say it is a better show as well. Maybe, it simply IS a better show?

NXT is simply formatted and presented much differently than RAW is, and in a way many hardcore wrestling fans prefer. That, and you admitted yourself, there is a ton of "shit" on RAW. This is not something I fault RAW for...it has different things to accomplish than NXT does, and different demographics to appeal to. It also has three live hours per week to fill, wereas NXT has the advantages of being taped, one hour shows. It is no giant defeat that a show with pronounced advantages for providing more quality from minute one to minute 58 ends up doing just exactly that.

Even if RAW's matches WERE better (I would strongly disagree), they are utterly meaningless, and have all been put in front of us one thousand times.

"industry analyst" is a fancy word for "smark who gets paid". Ever read the garbage Mark Madden rights on here? He's lucky there isn't more competition in the pro wrestling journalism field. It's the worst journalism. Meltzer makes Fox News look truthful.

My point isn't that Raw is perfect and NXT sucks, it's that the IWC, in general, shits on anything successful and loves anything "underground" in an attempt to be cool. It's stupid.