I Think I Hate Abyss

[johnbragg]

You see this is what you don't get. An IWC opinion doesn't represent a majority. The fact that Cena sell merchandise and is loved by kids and women makes him a true babyface despite what a discontent IWC feels. An opinion or a reaction of only 10% of wrestling's fanbase or even less on the net isn't the voice for the majority.

I absolutely get it. But back when hating on SuperCena was at its peak, you heard about 20% boos mixed in with the cheers. That's not just a handful of IWC nerds like you and me, that's a real slice of fandom. That matters. And the WWE and Cena addressed that, acknowledging in Cena's standard promo that "not everyone has to like me", and eventually tapping the brakes on Cena > Rest of the World.

The man is being booed.

So is Jack Swagger. Is he getting good heel heat, or is he getting "this is stupid crap" boos?

When a nonsmark child or a nonsmark person period may see Abyss, they may truly hate the guy or want to see him get his ass kicked.

Or they may see a ridiculous buffoon doing wildly implausible things like abducting company owners and fans and branding production staff with no consequences. And switch the channel to the NFL Network, or The Office, or Jersey Shore, or 100 other entertainment options that don't have that flaw.

Stupid crap like Abyss 2010, or Hornswoggle vs Chavo, or Dashing Cody Rhodes Puts on Deodorant, drives people away. It makes people feel like this isn't something that they should be watching, that this show is just too stupid for them.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I agree that Abyss has to be a (nearly) unstoppable monster.

But that means he should look less like a homeless guy and more like a guy who has dead homeless guys on a slab in his basement. Stereotype Serial killers take some care after their appearance--they have a little bit of style. Even Mankind didn't dress himself in the dark. Abyss needs some clothes that fit, for a start. Slob doesn't say "monster", it says sloppy.

Hmm yes I agree with you that he does dress sloppily. But I think someone in the TNA management makes him look mysterious that way.

I'd really like to know how you would dress Abyss up. I'd personally like to see him bare bodied. His physique will probaably enhance his monstrosity in my opinion.

 

[johnbragg]

I'd really like to know how you would dress Abyss up.

A few different options.

The smallest change would just be to get new shirt-vests with the anarchy symbol screened on professionally, rather than spray-painted on haphazardly, find a tailor to get his clothes to fit right, and make it look like he bought them at Walmart rather than picked them out of a burning trash can.

Second option would be complete and total sacrilege--create a priest/minister outfit, with the anarchy symbol screened into the back, on the cuffs and on a pendant of some kind. Maybe go blood red instead of black, as Abyss is a priest of violence and suffering. Maybe have the A logo on a separate vestment in front and back that fits over the shirt. Ditch the stupid half-mask for a more form-fitting cloth head mask in solid dark red, with no mouth opening. Maybe the A logo on the forehead.

(I'm not saying that as an anti-religion or anti-Catholic statement. I'd couple it with Abyss taking his motivations in that direction, with Raven and maybe Chris Daniels coaching him on promos about how this is a fallen world which must be purified through suffering, blessed are they who suffer for it is their blood which will bring about the Kingdom, etc. Maybe reveal that the A-in-the-circle stands not for Abyss or anarchy but for Absolution.)

Third, Abyss looked less goofy when he was wearing a Mick Foley vest with his t-shirt and sweatpants.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Heat is heat. It doesn't matter if it's "kayfabe heat" or "legit heat". The type of heat Abyss gets doesn't matter. People boo him when he comes out and people always want to see him get his ass kicked. He is a heat machine and gets people to hate him. I don't personally hate him because I can go behind the camera and beyond the smart fan and see that he's just doing his role to a tee. The problem is that people like you are such smarks that you allow your smarkness to take over you if you really do indeed change the channel which I doubt.

No heat isn't heat. You've got good heat and you've got bad heat. The bad heat, which is something Abyss draws a lot of, causes viewers to change the channel. I often do change the channel when Abyss is on. If a wrestler causes people to change the channel, that isn't a good thing. When it comes to Abyss drawing heat in the Impact Zone, that's not saying much because it doesn't exactly take much to get a reaction from the fans in the Impact Zone. It doesn't take a smark to recognize that what they're doing with Abyss is shit and the numbers back it up. The problem is that you will defend anything TNA puts out, whether it's good or bad regardless. I don't expect perfection, but I'm not going to predend that crap like Abyss's "sex dungeon" is good just because the hopeless marks do.

In this day and age where fans are so smart that they like heels for "being a good heel", where past heels like Orton have been cheered and where current top heels like Fortune are cheered, it is hard to garner any type of heat as a heel. Most nowadays outside of WWE, (TNA especially)it seems like if there is no legit hatred or personal problems a fan has with a heel, it's pretty hard for the individual heel to be hated. I'm noticing that the most common way for guys to be truly over as a heel in TNA is if some legit heat is behind it and TNA notices that and is trying to dabble into that psychology more and more. Everything about Abyss draws hatred and TNA may continue to keep him in his current state in his current role because there is no reason for you to compliment him or like him doing his job. They want you to feel he's stupid, ugly, annoying, ******ed, and more and you all fall into it. Really you and all the smarks are the ones being played but oddly enough most "smarks" don't see that.

A good heel is someone that makes you want to stick around and see what they're doing. A good heel is someone that makes you want to listen to them talk on the microphone, to care to some degree about their character in which you want to see them wrestle inside the ring. It's a concept that you don't seem to understand but it's extremely simple. If people don't like what they're seeing out of Abyss, they're less likely to continue watching to see what he does. That means that TNA loses viewers for segments featuring him and, sometimes, those viewers don't tune back in to watch the rest of the show. Professional wrestling isn't real and everyone knows that. Suspension of disbelief if important and whatever is being shown to you has to make you care about suspending that disbelief. In order to accomplish that, a heel does need to generate kayfabe heat, not "real heat".

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

I actually like Abyss and the character he has been playing recently and I think it's a Million Times better than that Abyssmania Crap we got several months ago. Abyss gets alot of heat in the Impact Zone which is a pretty hard to thing to do with how idiotic that Crowd can be at times, whether it's Good Heat or X-Pac heat I don't know because we have no clue as to why the People in the Impact Zone are booing. I personal care about his character and he doesn't make we want to change the channel, and I really want to see him get his Ass Beat so I guess to me he is a pretty good heel.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Abyss has got slowly fatter and fatter over the last few years. When you runs you can see his tits bounce. It is not a good look, and he when he starts breathing hard into the mic he looks and sounds like a homeless rapist.

A few years ago, Abyss was decent. He was faster and more athletic with two great finishers (Black Hole Slam and the Shock Treatment). But now, all he does is set up weapns for his opponents and ALWAYS end up getting slammed onto the tacks himself. It is so obvious, and boring now.

He needs to lose some fucking weight, get to the gym and invest in some new ring attire. Also...please please TNA rehire Father Mitchell, Abyss was so much better when didnt talk and we didnt know his name was Chris.

 

[TellMeWhy]

No heat isn't heat. You've got good heat and you've got bad heat. The bad heat, which is something Abyss draws a lot of, causes viewers to change the channel. I often do change the channel when Abyss is on. If a wrestler causes people to change the channel, that isn't a good thing. When it comes to Abyss drawing heat in the Impact Zone, that's not saying much because it doesn't exactly take much to get a reaction from the fans in the Impact Zone. It doesn't take a smark to recognize that what they're doing with Abyss is shit and the numbers back it up. The problem is that you will defend anything TNA puts out, whether it's good or bad regardless. I don't expect perfection, but I'm not going to predend that crap like Abyss's "sex dungeon" is good just because the hopeless marks do.

If I defend everything TNA, then you try to prosecute everything TNA. All you do is talk negative of the company and when someone is positive toward it, in the world you live in, it's automatic "defending". You're not even a real TNA fan. You are just a critic that watches TNA just to have something to talk about on here. What you're saying is inaccurate. Abyss doesn't constantly draw the lowest quarter hour ratings per Impact, so how the hell would you know or be able to assume that one man is drawling "legit" heat and is causing viewers to turn out? No ratings data show that people are consistently tuning out of TNA solely due to the monster Abyss. If so, then why would they continue to use him as much as they do and continue to push him? I never said the stuff that they do with Abyss makes good tv or is entertaining but to try and talk for all TNA viewers and determine whether a guy is drawing "legit heat" or "kayfabe heat" is a giant leap. He may draw legit heat from a smark like you the same way Cena draws heat from the net but that doesn't determine that the IWC attitude is universal with every single viewer.

A good heel is someone that makes you want to stick around and see what they're doing. A good heel is someone that makes you want to listen to them talk on the microphone, to care to some degree about their character in which you want to see them wrestle inside the ring. It's a concept that you don't seem to understand but it's extremely simple. If people don't like what they're seeing out of Abyss, they're less likely to continue watching to see what he does. That means that TNA loses viewers for segments featuring him and, sometimes, those viewers don't tune back in to watch the rest of the show. Professional wrestling isn't real and everyone knows that. Suspension of disbelief if important and whatever is being shown to you has to make you care about suspending that disbelief. In order to accomplish that, a heel does need to generate kayfabe heat, not "real heat".

With you and so many wrestling fans being the smarks that you are today, how in the hell can a smark like you have "kayfabe heat" for anyone? I seriously doubt during the time that Orton kicked Vince in the head, you had any "kayfabe heat" for him. I'm pretty sure when Nexus first formed and came to the ring and beatdown Cena and the SES that you had "kayfabe heat" for Nexus because. I seriously doubt that you had "kayfabe heat" from CM Punk when he was recruiting for the SES and shaving people's hair off. You are too smart for your own good. This isn't the 1980s or 90s anymore when people like you thought wrestling was real. The dynamics have changed. And I sure as hell knows that a guy like you isn't really hating a guy because he turned his back on his partner or because of what happened on a program.

If anything, kayfabe heat comes from nonsmark fans and you have no idea how nonsmark fans which is probably about 80% of TNA's fanbase feel about Abyss. TNA performs in front of a smart bunch every week. If you look back at TNA history, heels have been cheered in the Impact Zone throughout. MEM, Kurt Angle, Steiner, Pope which made him turn face, Sting, The Beautiful People, and now Fortune are all examples of heels that get cheers. Impact Zone cheers for heels. Only a few guys in TNA have gotten heat from the crowd and that is guys who had legit heat like Jeff Jarrett, Bubba The Love, Mr. Anderson, and now Abyss is in that category. And do you know what they all had in common. Legit heat. And when the audience acts like that towards them, then they are good heels.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Abyss lost most of his luster when he exited the feud with Sting, because the single greatest feat he had going for him prior to that (aside from being in better shape physically) was that he didn't speak — he was spoken for. It made his character unpredictable and extremely dangerous.

Once "Chris Parks" was born, Abyss died, and he went through a spout of necrophilia by the time Hogan got to him.

I think he's done a great job of trying to resurrect his career, but I can fully understand why people can't take him seriously.

 

[RD_21]

I've read some of the posts and somethign that seem to stick out is that you guys don't like Abyss jacket. For me it's the best part of the jacket, when he lose it you see that he is fat and out of shape so to say.

But the jacket to me really bring out the maniac that has a shack in a wood and will kill you if you wander there like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre or things like that. I really dig the jacket.

I think he need to stop not using Janice because we all know he can't use it. Just have him use an oversize sledgehammer or something like that where he could hit people still. But Janice is lame, well cool but since he can't use it it lose the cool factor.

I dig Abyss but I was digging him more leading to 10.10.10. Because leading to 10.10.10 it reminded me of Minion in WWE when he was opening the way for the Ministry of Darkness but with the Immortal, except Jeff Hardy they are not dark enougbh for Abyss in my opinion and Abyss is left feeling out of place.

 

[Alex]

The thing is Abyss is like a really good cake you can't find the recipe for.

He was really good in the beginning being a manical monster, his look was good and he was silen which added to the demenorn, with James Mitchell as a mouthpiece he was great, like a nice tasting cake.

Then they decide to try a different recipe with the asylum gimmick and while in theory it could work it just didn't (not quite the right ingredients)

They try to improve on the asylum recipe but make it worse by making him a ******ed child that can't be taken seriously.

They then try a new recipe with the Hulk Hogan gimmick, him makes him even more silly.

They then try to go back to the monster gimmick (trying to make the original gimmick) but they haven't got the right ingredients, so it just doesn't work, and while there's technically nothing wrong with it (it can be seen as evil an pyschopathic) people remember that great cake that was the original Abyss and they just aren't buying this current one.

 

[BigDaddyKewl]

I like Abyss, I think he brings something different to the the table. He has good ring presence and gets people attention with his size and his wierd look. I enjoy some of his promos, he does a good crazy and intense interveiw . Hes is one of the most famous of the TNA originals and is definetely one of the top 5. I think his gimmick could have worked better in the 80s and early 90s when you had more larger than life wrestlers. Nowadays its all clean cut ripped guys with no gimmicks it gets boring. If you ask me Abyss is alot more interesting than the likes of Joe, Daniels, Styles, etc.

 

[Lancer]

I've always enjoyed Abyss since I've regularly started watching TNA, around 2004 or so. I absolutely loved the silent, brooding, maniacal monster he portrayed when he was led around by James Mitchell. He only carried out the tasks Mitchell bid him to, and was unpredictable and...violent.

My favorite Abyss promo (or moment, really) was before the Monster's Ball match at Bound For Glory 2005, where each wrestler in the match was "locked" in a closet for 24 hours with no food, water, etc. Mitchell cut a promo on how Abyss spent many days and nights as a child in that same predicament, and how unleashing him into the match would be akin to letting a Vietnam veteran play paintball with amateurs...how the pent-up rage and frustration would result in "copious amounts of blood." During the whole promo, Abyss seethed in the background, and after it was complete, he let out a bone-chilling primal scream....that was the character he played perfectly.

He lost momentum with the whole Sting feud, in my opinion. While it did give more definition to his character, it also presented a vulnerability: he had a family, which he had human feelings for. He was no longer the bloodthirsty animal with no remorse. From that moment on, his character has never felt the same...throughout the whole Judas Mesias feud, the mental institution, the Dr. Stevie debacle, and the pseudo-Hogan gimmick. While portraying these personas, he seemed less like a violent being and more like a simpleton who just used weapons.

Since Abyss has turned heel and started carrying Janice around, I have begun to get back into his character a bit more. The backstage attacks fit him well, but he could do without anymore "dungeon"-type segments that just seem impractical and illogical. Just make him the silent beast with a craving for blood and violence, and have him win some matches against credible opponents, and all will be well again.

 

[A Mod's Best Friend (aka Bitch)]

Im personally enjoying Abyss on my television screen at this point.

I find people who analyse wrestling to the bare bone are the ones who deep down do not want to enjoy it. Abyss pulling random fans out from the crowd i find is hugely entertaining and can't wait to see how this Lumberjack match will transpire in the Impact zone. His promo work i think is very good and the way they are actually trying to 'rebuild' him into a monster is a positive.

Just wish he would slim down a bit and fix up his attire but right now, im really digging Abyss!

 

[Kenny Powers]

I just ignore Abyss now. He is a channel changer for me. How can someone take him serious after being Abyssamania? Or even after taking out RVD only to lose to him at the biggest PPV of the year, Bound For Glory. Wasn't he supposed to take out RVD and now the Pope for good? Yeah keep talking Abyss with your weapon Janice that has never hurt anyone.