I don't understand...

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

Seth Rollins won the MitB match. Ambrose was just so close on getting it, Kane interfered and basically won the match for Seth.

Later on, Cena overcame the odds, especially both Orton and Kane and became the WWEWHC.

I still don't understand why the heels always need to cheat to win, whereas the faces always overcome the hell out of every odds and win. I realize to a lot of extent why faces need to win fair and square, but why do heels always need dirty tactics, outside interference etc? Yea, it's pro wrestling 101, right? NO. That WAS pro wrestling. Times change and pro wrestling shouldn't be left behind. What at past years would seem as a dirty victory for Seth is now a win for Seth who can't make it on his own.

How about you let your heels win on their own, so that they establish themselves on their own? Ambrose wouldn't have lost any prestige. There were 5 other guys in there and it was every man for himself. Dean can get his victory at some point, but if you are gonna have someone win, make them show strong enough to be able to win on their own. For fuck sake...

 

[rgeposts]

Have to agree actually. I only like the occasional interference and wwe uses it too much. Feels like old wcw sometimes. Try watching puro more if you're like me. Less bs.

 

[JoeMallard]

He is with the Authority, what do you expect! It only adds heat to Rollins, which he needs!

 

[MoxleyCrue]

I have to partially disagree. It completely depends on the heel at hand.

In the case of Seth Rollins, he should win with assistance from Kane.

He was in the most dominant faction since original Evolution, then stabbed them in the back. He says he can do it without the Shield, so the audience wants to see that he actually can't. When someone (in real life not just wrestling) thinks that they are better than they actually are, it gets under people's skin. Having Rollins win clean leads to a Barrett and Cesaro situation.

Barrett and Cesaro are meant to be heels. Cesaro is managed by a wrestling deity who can make you cheer and boo his name in the 2 consecutive sentences. Neither win dirty, win quite often and what impact do they have as heels? None. They both put on great matches in the ring and as such the crowd actually cheers them.

Aside from the Evolution members and Rollins no major heel cheats anymore to win. You could claim the Wyatts use the numbers advantage, but they aren't really heels now anyway, more tweeners, but that's what happens to anyone facing Cena these days.

The IWC is obsessed with bad guys. A year or two ago when CM Punk was in full heel mode and the Shield were bad guys (and basically these 4 were the only reason to watch Raw most weeks) and Brock came back then fair enough. Bryan's push hadn't quite started, Ziggler was misused/unfortunate due to creative and injury, yadda yadda, there were no faces worth cheering for in and out each week.

Yes, Bryan is now out injured. But Ziggler is bringing the house down each week. The Usos are the most credible tag team in years. Sami Zayn in NXT is show stealing each week. Paige is technically a face. RVD is back and put on a hell of a show at MITB. Ambrose is getting huge pops as a face. Roman Reigns looks like he is going to be THE guy.

Support a face for once, you might enjoy the show a bit more than picking holes with heels.

 

[Tyrant25]

I agree with the aforementioned post that it depends on the heel.

Seth Rollins aligning himself The Authority guaranteed that he'd be the type of heel to always need help. The role of The Authority is to go to any length to ensure their power. In the case of Money in the Bank's interference by Kane, it was easy to tell that if Kane hadn't came out, Dean Ambrose would've won. Rollins even said before the match that there was a "plan A" and a "plan B" (plan B being Kane).

There are other kinds of heels that are booked strong enough to never need help. Cesaro and Rusev are two examples. They're booked as tough, hard-hitting guys and thus, they don't need help. The only thing that has changed in pro wrestling is the destruction of kayfabe, but pro wrestling 101 is still alive. Heels use dirty tactics to win, faces "overcome the odds" (which, by the way, is an old and overused term).

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I agree with the aforementioned post that it depends on the heel.

Seth Rollins aligning himself The Authority guaranteed that he'd be the type of heel to always need help. The role of The Authority is to go to any length to ensure their power. In the case of Money in the Bank's interference by Kane, it was easy to tell that if Kane hadn't came out, Dean Ambrose would've won. Rollins even said before the match that there was a "plan A" and a "plan B" (plan B being Kane).

There are other kinds of heels that are booked strong enough to never need help. Cesaro and Rusev are two examples. They're booked as tough, hard-hitting guys and thus, they don't need help. The only thing that has changed in pro wrestling is the destruction of kayfabe, but pro wrestling 101 is still alive. Heels use dirty tactics to win, faces "overcome the odds" (which, by the way, is an old and overused term).

Don't try to explain that to some of the people around here. They complain people like Ryback and Reigns don't "have mic skills" because they expect a powerhouse type wrestler to be articulate. Or in this case they expect heels to win clean more without factoring in that the audience needs to have a reason to hate them. Yes, some heels cheat less.

As this has already been explained, it's the type of heel that will depend on the amount of cheating. Mark Henry was a great example of the type of heel that didn't cheat during matches much. His way of garnering boos was destroying people at opportune times to have the advantage come match time. Cesaro uses Heyman. Anyone aligned with the Authority is going to cheat to win. It's the nature of heel stables. Frankly, with their storyline, the fact that anyone even brought this up is hilarious.

 

[~Heup©~]

Most heels these days win clean. I think everyone else is right in the fact that it should be expected for Rollins to need help right now. How else would the authority get over in a mid match type of way? Their presence needed to be felt at that ppv and that was the best way to do it in my opinion anyway. Did you actually expect less of them?

 

[southrnbygrace]

To me, if you don't cheat, you aren't a true heel. But then again, I'm old school.

 

[Dyscord]

Because the WWE apparently doesn't know how to book any other type of heel. It works with someone like Bray. He's charasmatic and all. But it's REALLY annoying when someone as a face can overcome the odds and kick all kinds of ass, but once they turn heel, they become a coward. CM Punk was a good example of this.

 

[chicagokmc]

Name the last time there was a no-disqualification, anything goes type of a match where a heel didn't use the rules to his advantage to win. the wwe sets this up by highlighting that its "anything goes". so technically it's not even cheating. does that mean that there always has to be outside interference or shenanigans? no but if you weren't going to have those things, it probably wouldn't be booked as an anything goes match. that to me is the issue. every other main event match at a ppv is like that. if they cut down on that, then they can focus on writing better endings that don't always call for outside interference.

 

[Aquaman6686]

WWE's biggest weakness is the way they book heels. 95% of WWE heels are INCAPABLE of winning matches on their own, while babyfaces are invulnerable. This has always been a problem in WWE and will never change.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

While I do agree that WWE does sometimes go too far in protecting some babyfaces, most especially John Cena, the reason why heels resort to cheating so much of the time is...well...frankly, it's what heels are supposed to do. Heels are lowlife dirtbags who're do everything they can to win by nefarious means. It's a simplistic way of looking at things, and one that's not really all that realistic compared to how things are in the real world, but it's generally how the age old story of "good vs. bad" plays out. Somebody needs to be forthright & honorable while someone needs to be cowardly & despicable. Why is it that Flair, Savage, Hennig, Rude, Blanchard, Anderson, etc. are hailed as wrestling gods for doing what heels are supposed to do, namely cheating their asses off to get ahead, while modern wrestlers are derided for doing the exact same stuff?

Also, as much as some fans may want to see this, every heel on the roster can't be booked as this embodiment of toughness, a nigh unstoppable human juggernaut that can take on anything. There was an editorial on the WZ main page this morning in which Jason Killiam pointed out that many of the same fans who griped about John Cena winning the title again last night are the same sort who'll turn around and gripe about WWE pushing guys too quickly or before they're ready. Some of the complaints aimed towards heels actually using heel tactics follows a similar path. As I alluded to earlier, WWE goes overboard in protecting John Cena sometimes, but look at how many people who decry Cena's toughness and ability to overcome the odds that want WWE to do that with heels.

 

[RedRegan1005]

In the case of Rollins at MITB I understand why it was done that way. But I do agree one hundred percent that WWE does a rough job of booking heels. If you don't give heels some kind of cleanish win they never gain any credibility. So if I don't think the heel stands a chance against the face why do I wanna pay to see the face fight the heel? Doing whatever to gain an advantage is heelish and works but never winning with out tons of interference and other shenanigans does damage.

 

[Y2JBL]

WWE is too stupid for that type of subtlety at this point, or they think the fans are too stupid to understand a heel winning cleanly. Remember, you're all watching a show meant for children at this point, so they have to aim low and keep it simple. The villains on the Power Rangers have to lose every week too (or cheat to win). WWE thinks a winner gets cheered, and you don't want a heel cheered, so they better lose, or win by cheating.

There's no reason that a "bad guy" shouldn't be able to get a clean win and still be bad, but that requires strong characters to make sure the audience doesn't get lost. Heels are cool and faces are booed at this point, so they don't want to make it any more confusing. Soon every heel will be required to wear a dastardly villain mustache.

 

[Mudlup50]

I don't think everybody understands what he means xD or maybe I don't

I took his statement as, why can't WWE make a heel believable without going all in? For example, Triple H is a heel but he's meant to be like the most heel you can be. Then you have like Orton, who for some reason is a bad guy and the WWE can't build him as such, the fans cheer him! If they don't have a story for you that's big news, then you have nothing if you're a heel. Damien Sandow for instance, now he doesn't have a good heel gimmick and he's getting smashed week in and out.

Just face it, writing a good guy is a whole hell of a lot easier. I mean, what do you have Cena do for instance, all he has to do is suddenly win a match, cut a promo about how much he loves the fans, have an opponent cheat, it just seems easier to write a good guy storyline.

I mean like, Jericho's return tonight. He got cheered for returning a "legend." He got attacked, even more popularity.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

If a guy says ******** things but doesn't cheat is he really a heel? Or is he an "edgy baby face"?

You don't have to cheat to be a heel, but it helps. I also believe that heel/face only matters in terms of your reaction. Cesaro is a baby face even though he's with Heyman. People like him. If people like you, you are a baby face. To some people, some generations, different traits are good or bad. Older people are more cynical, they hate Cena. He's unrealistic to them because they've had their dreams crushed in real life. People like Daniel Bryan, they overcome the odds in their own life vicariously through him. Ziggler is a baby face. People often feel like their talents are overlooked, they see that in Ziggler, he's a baby face.

Cheating or not, I think it depends on the heel and the situation. If it's a character trait, then yes, they have to cheat. If it's a story point that wrestler A has to cheat to beat wrestler B then yes, they have to cheat.

Another thing to realize, WWE has a lot of viewers, and a lot of casual viewers. It needs to be simple. This isn't an indy with a dedicated, small fan base. There are the dedicated WWE fans and then the casuals and then the channel flippers. You have to be able to know what's going on and who's good, who's bad within a few moments. You can't fantasy book based on your own perception without taking into account the market they play in front of.

 

[Reflection]

That is because the face in question here is the evergreen superman John Cena. Dean Ambrose helping Cena out and getting his revenge on Kane would have made much more sense and got him even more over... But NO!!!! Our superman doesn't need anybody's help. You can put the entire Authority + Evolution + Wyatt + 8 mid carders against him, but he will still come up on top. Fuck logic, its queer; the champ is here!

 

[richhasnofriends]

I agree. I didn't understand why Seth and Dean couldn't just battle it out in the end, and maybe have heel Seth get Dean's leg stuck in the ladder or something and stand on it to win so he couldn't escape it or something. But again, they have to ruin another great match but having a run in, and again like 8888% of the times before, it's Kane. I would have even taken like a Kane pulling a Rhyno, and lifting Rollins on the shoulders up to just get the reach above Dean, you know, without him actually getting beaten up. It's so stale.

 

[liquidprinter]

Some wrestlers cheats. Mostly heels these days win.

 

[southrnbygrace]

But in order to cheat the referee has to enforce a set of rules. And in WWE these days, there are no rules. The use a closed fist to hit one another, they never disqualify them for not breaking on a five count in the ropes....the only kind of heelish behavior in WWE is people interfering in matches.

Add to that todays fan seem to want to cheer 'bad guys' and it's nearly impossible to get a heel over for being a heel.

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

Because the WWE apparently doesn't know how to book any other type of heel. It works with someone like Bray. He's charasmatic and all. But it's REALLY annoying when someone as a face can overcome the odds and kick all kinds of ass, but once they turn heel, they become a coward. CM Punk was a good example of this.

This. This is exactly what I'm talking about. When someone is a face, they can defeat the entire roster clean. When they turn heel, they somehow lose their power and need 5 other people to help them out to win. That's stupid. How about building a face strong that doesn't cheat to win, but is just a douche? Seth is already a heel and people actually boo him.

 

[MoxleyCrue]

This. This is exactly what I'm talking about. When someone is a face, they can defeat the entire roster clean. When they turn heel, they somehow lose their power and need 5 other people to help them out to win. That's stupid. How about building a face strong that doesn't cheat to win, but is just a douche? Seth is already a heel and people actually boo him.

But the point here is Seth never destroyed people on his own. He always had the Shield backing him up. Just to get your opinion on this, can you name me a heel that won for an extended period of time without cheating? You seem to be complaining about 'current era' WWE but I cannot remember a heel ever winning clean for an extended period (6 months plus) and still getting booed.