Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior - The very best of professional wrestling.

[Shocky]

Like Jake said, if I take the 10 year old goggles off in which I watched this match originally, and hit the mute button to take out the crowd, this match is incredibly dull. I said it in another thread, great heat makes a great match. If the crowd wasn't into this match, it would have been dull and boring. Personally, I have watched this match on mute, which I do now to really get a good idea of how great a match is, and it simply doesn't cut it for me anymore. The moves are terrible, and it's just a slow paced match. But that's what I do, it's not what everyone else does. I enjoy this match because it was a big part of my childhood, and any match with that much crowd reaction is always enjoyable (even Lesnar Goldberg was a great match in my opinion, thank you MSG).

 

[blackhart07]

This isnt a great wrestling match by far. This is a perfect example of two body builder's that were way to hyped. If you go watch some of warriors old matches they lasted about 5 minutes, and he had 4 moves. The warrior was never a good wreslter. Hogan is well Hogan i never liked him never will very overrated. I will agree that this was a good idea to put to babyfaces against each other which was taboo at the time. And the match had a ton of buzz around it but i prefer Rock vs. Austin.

 

[Slyfox696]

WOW, the workrate was got great for those two individuals in the last 20 years, but good god, you are not saying that their workrate was better than anything else in the last 20 years are you?

Workrate is way more than shaking the ring ropes and giving the big boot. Workrate at that era was Ric Flair & Ricky Steamboat, not Hogan & Warrior. Look, I Mark for both of those guys, but I was never confused by the fact that they could ever give me 20 minutes of action/

I'm guessing you don't understand what the term work rate actually means. Work rate is not the number of moves or how fast they do them. That's the pacing of the match.

Think of it this way. You know what a shoot is, correct? When a guy steps out of character and discusses things for "real". What's the opposite of a shoot? A work. A work is what the performers make you believe is real, when in reality it's not. Thus, work rate is the rate at which the workers can make the fans believe what they are watching is as real as professional wrestling can be, and making the fans emotionally invested in the characters and the outcome of the match.

That's why the work rate in this match was so phenomenal.

That's just me though and, as Sly has proved on numerous occasions, I'm a moron. So don't listen to me. That's not sarcasm either.

Haha. This would so totally be sigged if I had room.

As someone said, someone from my generation would have Rock/Austin in place of this. Which I do, by the way.

Rock vs. Austin 2 was a fantastic match. The biggest problem with Rock vs. Austin 2 is that it was number two. We had already seen it before, and that kind of hurts the match, at least in terms of being a match-up of epic proportions.

I agree. I don't think that the match is anything special. A great match will stand out if you watch it on mute. But without the crowd reaction it's an average match. Ring psychology? Pfft. It doesn't mean nothing if the match isn't good.

Ring psychology is part of what makes a good match. If you don't have good ring psychology, how is it possible to have a good match?

I said it in another thread, great heat makes a great match.

Not true. There are many times where great heat can't overcome crappy match.

But, what IS true is that a great match makes for great crowd heat.

If the crowd wasn't into this match, it would have been dull and boring.

The fact that the crowd WAS into the match is a prime example of how good the match was.

The moves are terrible,

Why do you say that?

it's just a slow paced match.

So? Why does that matter?

 

[Shocky]

Personal preference, that is all. I go through phases on which type of wrestling and wrestlers I like. When I was younger, obviously the colorful guys like Hogan, Demolition, Macho Man were the guys I watched. The people that were the brightest and made the most noise, hey look at me over here. It is easily what got me hooked to this day.

Eventually I moved on to the cruiserweights, (which done correctly is still one of the most entertaining forms of wrestling imaginable), to Hardcore, then eventually, and to this day, technical and submission style or mat wrestling.

Personally at the moment, I am all about the mat wrestling. So Hogan and Warrior, as a critic, doesnt impress me. However, in context with the times, and the fan in me, especially that inner child the match is top notch. I know it sounds like Im contradicting myself, but thats how I think.

The fan in me loves the match, but the critic in me (the critic that happens to have a technical-mat wrestling bias) doesnt like the match. I dont know, Im probably just weird.

 

[Slyfox696]

Personal preference, that is all. I go through phases on which type of wrestling and wrestlers I like. When I was younger, obviously the colorful guys like Hogan, Demolition, Macho Man were the guys I watched. The people that were the brightest and made the most noise, hey look at me over here. It is easily what got me hooked to this day.

Eventually I moved on to the cruiserweights, (which done correctly is still one of the most entertaining forms of wrestling imaginable), to Hardcore, then eventually, and to this day, technical and submission style or mat wrestling.

Personally at the moment, I am all about the mat wrestling. So Hogan and Warrior, as a critic, doesnt impress me. However, in context with the times, and the fan in me, especially that inner child the match is top notch. I know it sounds like Im contradicting myself, but thats how I think.

The fan in me loves the match, but the critic in me (the critic that happens to have a technical-mat wrestling bias) doesnt like the match. I dont know, Im probably just weird.

While I understand all that, it doesn't change the quality of the match. I have never seen a Rey Mysterio match that I have been just incredibly impressed with (vs. Eddie at Halloween Havoc is probably my favorite of his), but I cannot deny the skill and ability the man has. Just because his style doesn't appeal to me, it doesn't change the fact the man is a great wrestler.

The point I'm making is that just because a match doesn't appeal to you, doesn't make it a bad match. I realize you never said outright it was a bad match, but you certainly hinted towards that.

As far as you taking your 10 year old goggles off...don't. When you are 10 years old, you understand wrestling in the way it's meant to be understood. You enjoy it for the reasons it is meant to be enjoyed. Now that you are older, and apart of a wrestling discussion board, one tends to forget the very reason they are a wrestling fan in the beginning. There's nothing wrong with enjoying professional wrestling. There's nothing wrong with enjoying outlandish gimmicks, larger than life characters, and guys who entertain you, regardless of a style they work.

Enjoy professional wrestling. It's what you are supposed to do.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Ring psychology is part of what makes a good match. If you don't have good ring psychology, how is it possible to have a good match?

Sometimes. It depends what sort of wrestling you like. I usually prefer slow paced technical matches. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy an opening match TNA X-Divsion match. I'm not talking about the matches they used to promote. I'm on about the current ones. Where they send anybody out and they try to do as many bumps as possible in 10 minutes. I still find those matches entertaining, yet they have no psychology.

There are many forms of wrestling, not just the WWE style of wrestling.

 

[DMan23]

This match, without any doubt, is one of the greatest of all time. Because of the two men involved, the storyline, their story in the ring, it was great. Of course these two guys weren't technical wrestlers, in fact Warrior was a horrible wrestler. Hogan carried him the whole match. Just because it wasn't a technical or mat wrestling match doesn't mean it wasn't great. This is PROFESSIONAL wrestling people, not amateur or shoot wrestling. The whole point is to entertain and put on a great show, which this match did and then some. Professional wrestling is allowed to showcase different styles. These were power guys with high impact power moves. This was one of Hogan's best matches and easily the Warrior's greatest match. It was these matches in the early Wrestlemanias that made it the event it is today.

 

[Pathogen]

As much as I dislike Hogan, I loved this match. I first saw it about seventeen years ago, whilst I was a Warrior mark, and loved it. I watched it yesterday on DVD, and, even though I'm now 29, I still loved it. Well impressed, I really was!

 

[SETHGARRETT1]

Evertime I Watch It I Watch The First 5 Min Of It And Fast Foward To The Last 2 Min Of The Match, All It Is, Is A 5 Min Bear Hug Here, A 5 Min Headlock There, A Double Clothesline, Both Of Their Signature Finishes And The Warriors Music!! I Like The Entrance The Best Now That I Think Of It, It Must Have Sickend Hogan To Hand The Title To That Peice Of S@#$t!!

 

[The_Real_WrestleManiac]

2 guys do a test of strength over and over in a varying number of ways. take turns doing the same moves to each other. How can you call that psychology? Want psychology watch Hogan vs Lesnar. As far as new vs old watch Hogan vs The Rock. I loved this match at the time but, despite what was said on the first page, it really didn't stand the test of time. I really do like Hogan though.

 

[Slyfox696]

Sometimes. It depends what sort of wrestling you like. I usually prefer slow paced technical matches. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy an opening match TNA X-Divsion match. I'm not talking about the matches they used to promote. I'm on about the current ones. Where they send anybody out and they try to do as many bumps as possible in 10 minutes. I still find those matches entertaining, yet they have no psychology.

Those type of matches are entertaining in small doses. However, if that was the only type of wrestling presented, it would no longer be entertaining. Which is why matches absent of psychology and storytelling fail on the grand scale of wrestling.

However, if all matches presented have good storytelling and good psychology, you could probably watch those type of matches all day long.

There are many forms of wrestling, not just the WWE style of wrestling.

Absolutely there are. But all great matches share the same qualities of what makes a good match. They may be presented in a variety of ways, but they still rank high in the core components of good wrestling.

2 guys do a test of strength over and over in a varying number of ways.

Really? Because they only did a test of strength once, with Warrior having the first advantage, and Hogan battling back, then Hogan having an advantage and Warrior battling back.

Do you understand why? Do you understand the significance of that? The significance ties into the passing of the torch. It was to show that Warrior was every bit the hero that Hogan was and had the same indomitable spirit Hogan did. Hulk Hogan was a superhero, and this match was to show that Warrior was Hogan's equal, nay, his superior, thus passing the torch onto Warrior to let Warrior carry the WWF into the 90s as its next great superhero, and thus, next big draw.

There was more psychology and storytelling in that simple test of strength than you seem to understand.

take turns doing the same moves to each other. How can you call that psychology?

I just explained it to you. Look above.

 

[matty]

I read through the posts and I just had to comment. For all you who have said this match was stupid, you must be young or not a true original fan of the good old WWF legendary days.

The simple fact is that people like myself who have grown up watching Wrestling truly understand. I started when Hogan slammed Andre, another monumental occasion that some here would say was stupid based on what I have heard about the the thought of this match.

Ask anyone who grew up watching Hogan and Warrior and truly having a hero in them and the fact that wrestling back then was always good versus evil where the main good in Hogan would prevail, and they will tell you that Hogan
versus Warrior is one of the greatest spectacles of all times.

Look, we all know Hogan was not the most talented wrestler ever. He does not have many moves and his finisher is a Leg Drop. He is my childhood hero nonetheless and he really did build this company alongside Vince.

If you watch that match you will see a crowd of dedicated and passionate fans. It was like turning Hogan into a Face at WM 18. Watch that one against the Rock and you will see the same passion. (I was in the skydome for that one, and I have never seen anything like it)

I can't agree it's the best WM match ever, but it definitely is in the top 5 on my list of the greats.

 

[RuKDaD]

It very well may have been the best match of yesteryear. It was a typical match for those days but just the simple fact that the Hulkster lost made it a jaw dropper. I myself was more of a Warrior fan so I didn't mind, But I remember the look on the faces of other people in the room when Warrior rolled out of the way of the leg drop then hit Hogan with the splash. 1..2..3. Who would have expected Hogan to lose at Wrestlemania? Who expected Hogan to lose after kicking out of the Warrior's finisher earlier in the match. The fans seemed to appreciate wrestling more back then. The way everything erupted, the sound of Gorilla Monsoon and Jesse Venture, the reaction from Hogan, and even the sound of The Fink. This match may not have had the high flying high impact moves of todays matches but I still believe it is the best Wrestlemania match of all time. Just watch the match and listen to the fans.

 

[The_Real_WrestleManiac]

Ok, so I decided to recap the match to help you identify the tests of strength in this match.

the match starts

1 man shoves the other to see how easy he is to move - first test of strength
2nd man does the exact same thing - second test of strength
The lock up is a test of strength
1 man shoves the other - test of strength again
2nd man does the exact same thing - test of strength again
greco roman knuckle lock - another test of strength
one man brings the other to his knees
2nd man does the exact same thing
before Warrior can get the advantage once again hogan out-wrestles him (never thought I'd say those 3 words) by doing a leg sweep and gains the first pin attempt.
Warrior goes for a tackle, Hogan doesn't move because he is too strong - another test of strength
They do a cross cross spot that ends in hogan bodyslamming Warrior and him no-selling because he isn't warn down. Not really a test of strength so I won't count it as one.
exact same spot is done only the roles are reversed. This time Hogan sells (which btw actually makes sense, no selling a move like this doesn't really make you look any better, it just exposes the business).
clothesline to the outside where hogan hurts his knee
Warrior attacks him while he's down
Hogan tells the reff he will fight on despite his injury
Warrior attacks his leg once he gets in the ring
I think it's safe to say at this point Warrior is established as the 'subtle heel' of this babyface match
Hogan and warrior exchange rakes to the eyes
Hogan mounts a small comeback and gets the second and third pin attempt of the match
Hogan then dominates Warrior for a while where he gets a few more pin attempts but is mostly spent with Warrior in a chinlock
Warrior mounts his comeback
Warrior puts hogan in a bear hug
Hogan gets out with a spot which bumps the ref down
Warrior goes for his flying tackle, misses, hogan covers for well over a three (those that give credit to hogan for putting warrior over clean seem to forget this moment)
Warrior back suplexes hogan, covers, no ref same as hogan.
Ref comes to and counts to 2
hogan does a roll up, same as above (no ref for like 5 secs then a 2 count)
warrior gets bumped to the outside, the 2 brawl, hogan goes to hit warriors head on the post, warrior blocks the 2 continue to force the others head to hit the post - test of strength
warrior then hits hogans head on the post
inside warrior gorilla press slams hogan, hits his finish for his second pin attempt and Hogan kicks out
Hogan hulks up for his comeback
Big boot, Hogan goes for his finish, warrior moves and hits his for the 3 count

You know I've heard and read hogan saying he made sure this match would make the fans like him more than warrior but never really realized how untill now. That match actually makes hogan seem more admirable than Warrior (with the obvious exception of who goes over). The two are portrayed as equal in strength (even the announcers point this out) the only difference is Hogan outsmarts and out wrestles Warrior and continues dispite an injured knee. Warrior exploits his injury which is looked down on, one of his only 2 near fall is after cheating (by ramming hogan's head in the poll) while hogan gets a ton of clean near falls. Hogan even kicks out of Warrior's finish while warrior just evades hogan's.

As far as psychology and storytelling, watch a Bret Hart match. No one is on par with him. I like his match with Owen at WMX. Sort of seemed to me like it was 2 guys who grew up with the same past only one was more experienced with wrestling and learned the risks of highflying moves while the other still saw them as an oppertunity to make a big impact on his opponent. Really any Bret match has a good story though. Bret was the best at that by far.