Hulk Hogan needs to retire at WM 25

[Mighty NorCal]

Seriously though.

Of course you cant SAY its his retirement match. But it will be, and everyone will know. I feel cheated that we never got one last great build. That THE MAN himself, has never gotten half the send off That Flair's tired ass did. Now I dont belive he should be THE main attraction, but it should be there.

Hogan should come out at like number 20 in the Royal Rumble, whip a bunch of people's asses, and then get eliminated by some bullshit method by some heel. Probably EDGE im thinking.

This can lead to a Hogan/Cena Vs Edge/Umaga (?) match at NWO. Some method of having Cena tag with Hogan. Or fuck it, Face Vs Face, for a title shot at WM. Of course Hogan loses, and then goes to Mania to go against Edge. Edge will seem like a credible threat, and will be able to carry Hogan to a fine match. My first suggestion was Umaga, but Jake talked me out of it, for a potential Taker Vs Umaga match.

Hogan and Edge have it the fuck out. Hogan hulks up after a spear. And poses like never before to end it. Walks out, on the grandest stage, off into the sunset. A PROPER finish to his WWE action.


Thoughts??? Opponets?? different ways to accomplish this??

 

[HBK-aholic]

Hogan needs to stay out of the wrestling ring. I do not want to see him back, especially in the form of having an actual feud. However great people say he was, he is living on name value alone at the moment. Nothing wrong with that, he earned it. But now his time in the ring has gone. He's earning enough from his reality show and shit like that.

Want him to have a ceremony like Flair did? Fine. Hell, give him his own one-off show to say goodbye. But do not put him back in that ring.

 

[klunderbunker]

Actually I don't want him to retire, not to mention, there's no way he would do it. Hogan's financial status is starting to become an issue for him. His appearences, even one off appearences, have to be good paydays for him. Flair's retirement was the most emotional thing I've ever seen in wrestling. Hogan's by all rights should blow Flair's out of the damn water. Flair is great, but there is one Hulk Hogan. The main reason I don't want to see it happen is it could mean he wouldn't show up again. When Hogan's music hits, every single wrestling fan, whether they love or hate Hogan, reacts. People will watch him no matter what. Hearing that music kick in is an instant markout moment, no matter who you are. Hogan shouldn't retire. He's practially retired already. If Vince wants to put him in a big match, to me there's one option if it can be worked out, and that's with Austin. Never has there been a bigger match. If they want to make it a retirement match, that's the only way I could picture it happening, as that could be one of the biggest money making matches of all time.

 

[Slyfox696]

While I'm never for having Hogan retire, I agree he deserves a proper sendoff a lot more than old flabby tits got. Here's how I would do it.

I like your idea of Hulk Hogan being surprise entrant in the Royal Rumble, maybe at number 23 or 24. He comes in, chunks a bunch of people. Then, get to the end, and make it look like he's about to lose...then BAM! Hulk Hogan Hulks up and eliminates everyone, winning the Rumble. And John Cena wins the World Heavyweight title.

John Cena vs. Hulk Hogan. Wrestlemania 25. World Heavyweight Title. It'd be fucking epic.

John Cena with the STFU..Hogan gets out. Cena with the FU. Hogan kicks out, and Hulks Up. Cena's in trouble. Big Boot. Leg drop.

1-2....KICKOUT!

Hogan can't believe it. Cena with an FU. 1-2-3.

Cena with the win. Hogan with the retirement. Hogan handing the title to Cena, much like he did with Warrior back in 1990.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Hogan needs to stay out of the wrestling ring. I do not want to see him back, especially in the form of having an actual feud. However great people say he was, he is living on name value alone at the moment. Nothing wrong with that, he earned it. But now his time in the ring has gone. He's earning enough from his reality show and shit like that.

Want him to have a ceremony like Flair did? Fine. Hell, give him his own one-off show to say goodbye. But do not put him back in that ring.

How you figure?? His last two matches were perfectly fine. I only want three matches, one of which is the damn Royal Rumble, so it doesnt involve a whole ton of doing. Cena and Edge could carry him just fine. It would be immensely over, so what YOU want isnt necessarily what matters, its what will generate buys, and THIS would generate buys.

You cant have a one off goodbye. It cant be a stated retirement, just a generally undertsood kind of thing. Hulk Hogan, and Hulkamania are far too big for that.

 

[HBK-aholic]

How you figure?? His last two matches were perfectly fine. I only want three matches, one of which is the damn Royal Rumble, so it doesnt involve a whole ton of doing. Cena and Edge could carry him just fine.

Which fans want to see their hero being 'carried'? Hogan has pretty much left the business, there's no point in him returning for a feud with someone else. And if it did, it would no doubt end in him winning. Is there a point? Nope.

It would be immensely over, so what YOU want isnt necessarily what matters, its what will generate buys, and THIS would generate buys.

Don't care. To put it simply. I don't benefit from more buys.

You cant have a one off goodbye. It cant be a stated retirement, just a generally undertsood kind of thing. Hulk Hogan, and Hulkamania are far too big for that.

He's practically been in retirement for how long now? There is no need in him returning suddenly.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

This is never going to happen, because Hulk Hogan is never going to retire. He doesn't want to be catagorized with the rest of the older wrestlers who claim to retire, only to come out of it.

Hogan went into the Hall of Fame because he believes in his own hype and wanted to be catagorized as a living legend, to which he should be for the most part. However just because he went into the HoF doesn't mean he has to be retired, and obviously a month later from going in, he competed in a Tag match.. and a couple monthes after that he was in a couple single's and tag contests.

All in all, Hulk Hogan might deserve "one last Hooray" or whatever you'd like to call it, but it'll never be "his last" because he'll never come to grips with thinking he can't do it anymore. So it's pointless to give him a 'last match' when even HE won't stick to it being his official last one.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Which fans want to see their hero being 'carried'? Hogan has pretty much left the business, there's no point in him returning for a feud with someone else. And if it did, it would no doubt end in him winning. Is there a point? Nope.



Don't care. To put it simply. I don't benefit from more buys.



He's practically been in retirement for how long now? There is no need in him returning suddenly.

Um...all the ones who TOTALLY ate up the whole Ric Flair saga. And the vast majority wont give a shit if Hogan is "carried" or will even KNOW he is being "carried" or what being "carried" is. LOL. And there is a point. a proper end to Hulkamania, and Hulk Hogan at WM. It is a point a huge one at that.

Returning suddeny?? er like all legends do??? Which will be a huge suprise, cuase interest, and drive buys and ratings and make fans happy?? And give us another huge attraction for the 25th WM?? Sounds good to me.

 

[AFC1986]

I don't think this will happen as Hogan would only step into the ring if he was guaranteed to win and who would agree to be his opponent when they know there is no chance in hell of winning. It was rumoured that he didn't have a rematch with Shawn Michaels in 2005 because Shawn was going to win, so why would someone have a match with Hogan.

Hogan is going through a very public and messy divorce. The press have been almost watching his every move after Nick's crash so even if he did come back he won't be ready mentally

 

[Mr. TM]

I have to give it to NorCal, his idea is almost perfect. It makes Everyone look magical, and gives Hulk Hogan the final moment in his career. Hogan deserves to be at the 25th Anniversary, he is one of the corner stones of Wrestlemania, and should be rewarded. No matter how old he is, how slow he might be, he can still have a match worthy of Wrestlemania. Edge and Cena are extremely capable of helping him put on a great match. If anything, it would give Edge his greatest honor of wrstling his hero at Wrestlemania, and he deserves it.

 

[justinsayne]

While I'm never for having Hogan retire, I agree he deserves a proper sendoff a lot more than old flabby tits got. Here's how I would do it.

I like your idea of Hulk Hogan being surprise entrant in the Royal Rumble, maybe at number 23 or 24. He comes in, chunks a bunch of people. Then, get to the end, and make it look like he's about to lose...then BAM! Hulk Hogan Hulks up and eliminates everyone, winning the Rumble. And John Cena wins the World Heavyweight title.

John Cena vs. Hulk Hogan. Wrestlemania 25. World Heavyweight Title. It'd be fucking epic.

John Cena with the STFU..Hogan gets out. Cena with the FU. Hogan kicks out, and Hulks Up. Cena's in trouble. Big Boot. Leg drop.

1-2....KICKOUT!

Hogan can't believe it. Cena with an FU. 1-2-3.

Cena with the win. Hogan with the retirement. Hogan handing the title to Cena, much like he did with Warrior back in 1990.

I actually like this idea, when I first saw this thread, before even clicking on it my first thought was Cena/Hogan at WM25, I'd also like to see all the wrestlers come out from the back after the match is over, they should do something like have Hogan and Cena do all the poseing and shit, then Cena points to Hogan as he leave the ring, and then everyone from the back comes out, would be fucking sweet

 

[Davi323]

I don't know if Hogan needs the same kind of send-off Flair got. Flair needed that kind of send-off to get that reaction from a WWE crowd. If it was just Flair vs. HBK, without his career at stake, he doesn't get nearly the same crowd reaction he got. However, all Hulk Hogan has to do is show up at the entrance ramp at Wrestlemania, and he gets the biggest pops of the night, guaranteed. Flair got the love he got because the WWE crowd respected him, but, if that's Hulk Hogan in that retirement storyline instead of Ric Flair, fuggedaboudit!!!! Hogan can get the same crowd reaction at Wrestlemania, from a WWE crowd just by showing up that Flair got for retiring. I don't mean that as an insult to Flair, merely that Wrestlemania and Hulk Hogan have a unique place in history that Flair simply does not share. With that being said, and after reading the little news blurb where Brooke Hogan says he is getting into shape, dropped 20lbs, etc, makes me think that the odds of Hogan returning to the WWE in some capacity went up from maybe 5%, "yeah right, when hell freezes over", to about 30%, "okay, I can see it happening, but I still will believe it when I see it" territory. I can pretty much guarantee Hogan is involved with Wrestlemania's silver anniversary in some capacity, but, am still skeptical about an actual in-ring return. I am kinda digging the Hogan/Cena ideas mentioned, I could totally see them hamming it up for ten minutes after their match, posing and such, and, honestly, there is no better way to close out a Wrestlemania than with Rick Derringer's I am a Real American playing in the background...However, I don't think it has to be a specific retirement match or anything.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

If Flair get's the big send off, then Hogan should too. It would be twice as epic and make WWE twice as much money. Why? Because Hogan is a hundred times the star Flair is. And unlike Flair Hogan looks almost exactly the same as in his prime and wrestles the same. He also won't blub like a girl. Hogan won't shuffle off a sad figure into the night. He'll pose for three hours, and everyone will love it.

Imagine the Raw sendoof. It won't be like the Flair one with lots of guys who really don't like the guy. It'll be full of people who love the guy. All his friends that Hogan helped throughout his career. Nasty Boys, Duggan, Jimmy Hart, Brutus, Mr. T and a few others. Real friends. No acting here. Then you've got all the current wrestlers who look up to him, like, Edge and, and, I'm sure there are others.

You can't say that Brutus Beefcake coming out won't get a monster pop. Better than WWE wheeling out agents who you see each and every week anyway. When was the last time Beefcake was on WWE TV? Years.

As for opponent it's nobody other than Cena really.

 

[CaseyisBA52'sGFnow]

Hulk Hogan couldnt have a good story line to retire because he refuses to lose. He should have lost to Randy Orton but he was selfish and wouldnt put him over. I personaly cant stand Hogan because he seems like a older version of Triple H. I'm also pretty sure that most wrestlers share my opinion of him , So he doesent deserve a Flair like send off.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Well, I believe technically, Hogan already HAD his "passing-of-the-torch" moment at WM 18 against the Rock... However then, he was NWO Hogan, and only afterwards returned to "Hulkamania"... and in the process won the Title another time. Plus, the Rock, his supposed "successor" in the story of that match, has also long since left the WWE for other shores, way before his time, with Hogan actually making more appearances at more recent events (SS05, SS06) than Rock. So Hogan isn't even as "truly" gone as Rock is at this point, which then again makes that first "passing of the torch" seem a bit awkward... which again makes a perfectly reasonable ground for another one - and of course it would have to be against John Cena.

Like him or not, but Cena is a truly dedicated worker, and is made out to be THE face of this generation, and he would be the one Hogan has to pass on to... And the ideas mentioned with Hogan winning the Rumble, then going on to face Cena at WM for the title would really be amazing... And with Hogan, there's still always the possibility he might win the "big one" yet once more, so aside from the pure awe-factor that a Hogan appearance at WM has in any case, it would also be quite suspenseful for the fan. A really good idea.

Right now, I believe Hogan is going through a lot of stuff and I have my doubts if he would be ready for another return... But if he sets his mind to it, he might just pull it off. Besides, he might see it as a possibility to garner some positive publicity again. As for him not being able to deliver in the ring - Oh come on. As someone else said, his matches against Randy Orton and HBK at the two Summerslams in 05 anf 06 were pretty much the same matches he used to have in his heyday. And considering his age, I actually hold those matches in higher regard than his older ones; if anything, Hogan should have had better matches then, but he was never the one to "carry" another. Hogan in the ring lives off charisma alone, and he still does to this day; so I definitely think there is that "one last match" in him. With Austin, who himself has health issues, it would be more difficult, but possible; but Cena, who is one hell of a worker, could definitely pull out another decent match for the Hulkster. It definitely would be huge.

But will Hogan get a Flair send-off? It would be cool to see I believe, but it somehow does not fit Hogan... Hogan and Hulkamania are supposed to be "immortal"... he just doesn't seem to simply "retire". It's more like - the day the chances are at 100% that Hogan will not return to the ring for "one more match" is the day that Hogan dies.

In any case, I'm always for another Hogan appearance at a big event, much more so at WM25. Why? Simply because he STILL gets the HUGEST reaction ever. As soon as "Real American" hits those speakers, everyone marks out instantly, and the roof is blown off the house. Fact. Hogan may be old, he may have knee and hip replacements, but he coems to the ring in quite decent shape nonetheless usually, especially for his age, and most of all - he just gets this huge reaction no matter what. Even with all the crap around the Nick-accident and prison sentence and divorce - the moment Hulkamania runs wild at WM, everyone will forget that for those twenty-something minutes and just go crazy.

I personally would love to see Hogan there, celebrating the 25th anniversary of the show he helped put on the map.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Hogan should only come back to job to Austin. As for Cena, what would be the point? I would seriously like to know the answer to this question. I really don't see how he deserves the rub that going over Hogan would give him and I really don't think there is any point for having Hogan go over any current WWE wrestlers.

As for having a ceremony similar to Ric Flair's, I wholeheartedly agree that Hogan deserves something like this.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Hogan should only come back to job to Austin. As for Cena, what would be the point? I would seriously like to know the answer to this question.

Did you HONESTLY just say he should job to Austin but then fail to see the point in Cena? What would be the point of him 'jobbing' to Austin? There would be none. If Hogan does return, it doesn't matter because Austin will never wrestle again, and he is already such a legend beating Hulk Hogan years after he left will do nothing.

I really don't see how he deserves the rub that going over Hogan would give him and I really don't think there is any point for having Hogan go over any current WWE wrestlers.

Um, the point would be for him to put them over. Hulk Hogan is arguably the bigegst legend in the WWE, and still fans refer to him constantly. Having someone, maybe a upper-mid carder, beat him would give them a huge boost, make them HOF material instantly.

That being said, I don't think Hogan would lose if he returned for a few matches, so that idea won't happen.

 

[Davi323]

Right now, I believe Hogan is going through a lot of stuff and I have my doubts if he would be ready for another return... But if he sets his mind to it, he might just pull it off.

I see this as motivation for a return. Without Linda at home, with Brooke doing her own thing, he has less reasons NOT to come back to the one thing in his life that has pretty much always been good to him. Even when Hulk was Hollywood, and despised by WCW fans, he made a LOT of cash. Pro Wrestling is one of the few good things Hogan has in his life. With Linda gone, really, what better things does Hulk really have to do?

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Did you HONESTLY just say he should job to Austin but then fail to see the point in Cena?

I am assuming this is a rhetorical question. But, yes I did just say that Hogan should job to Austin but not to Cena. And, even though I will subsequently address the rest of your post, I hate to spoil things right now by saying that nothing in your post persuaded me from thinking otherwise.

What would be the point of him 'jobbing' to Austin? There would be none. If Hogan does return, it doesn't matter because Austin will never wrestle again, and he is already such a legend beating Hulk Hogan years after he left will do nothing.

I will be forthright and say the point here would be to honor tradition. Just as Andre did the honors for Hogan at Wrestlemania III, I think Hogan should do the honors for the next biggest star to succeed him. Of course, one can make two arguments against this point. First, one can argue, "Why the hell should I care? These wrestlers' days as superstars are long gone." While I cannot argue that they are no longer the "tentpoles" that they once were, I would argue that there is still a significant portion of fans that would like to see this happen and that would express this liking by forking over the money to see it. Second, one can argue, "Hogan already did the honors for Warrior and the Rock." True, very true. But, didn't Hogan bringing the Warrior to WCW specifically to beat him at Halloween Havoc '98 defeat the purpose of their first meeting? And, yes, the Rock was huge; he was, in my opinion and in financial terms, the third biggest star in the modern era of wrestling...right behind Hogan and Austin (although there wasn't as much of a disparity in terms of popularity between Austin and the Rock, I think it can be argued that, when they were together, the Rock played Macho Man to Austin's Hogan).

Now, of course, if Austin is not in good enough health to wrestle again, then he shouldn't come back. However, if memory serves me correct, he has stated on more than one occasion that he has one more match left in him. Well, if he does, it should be against Hogan. And, if he happens to have two more matches left in him, the last one should be for putting over the next biggest star in WWE (who is still yet to be seen).

Um, the point would be for him to put them over. Hulk Hogan is arguably the bigegst legend in the WWE, and still fans refer to him constantly. Having someone, maybe a upper-mid carder, beat him would give them a huge boost, make them HOF material instantly.

So, you answer the question I asked by just elaborating on part of it and typing it in without a question mark? Maybe there is something here I am not getting. Your answer in no way provides justification for why any current wrestler in WWE deserves to go over Hogan. Except to assert the dominance of an uber-heel, going over a wrestling legend should be used for no other purpose than to cement another wrestler's legendary status. That is to say, wrestling legends should never be used to elevate someone that isn't already considered to be of the same caliber as said legend (save for wrestlers like Flair, Foley, or Duggan, who were/are only shadows of their former selves and who continue/continued to wrestle even though their worth plummets/plummeted by the hour).

 

[ThePhenom13]

i like the idea of Hulk coming back for one last match.but maybe not against cena.cus i think some people will be pissed that its cena hes facing and that WWE makes him look like superman and he looks like superman now cus he beat the Hulkster and blah blah blah.i think it would be great for him to face someone like Edge.i mean Edge is a big Hulkimaniac and it would be great to see edge fight his hero.or maybe someone else like Taker so people will really be asking the question"is the streak over?"or"if Hulk loses,he retires,if taker loses,he might retire cus his streak ended".but either way,i would really love to see Hulk wrestle one last match,and where better then at the PPV he made Famous(i guess since alot of people made it famous),Wrestlemania.

 

[Slyfox696]

I am assuming this is a rhetorical question. But, yes I did just say that Hogan should job to Austin but not to Cena. And, even though I will subsequently address the rest of your post, I hate to spoil things right now by saying that nothing in your post persuaded me from thinking otherwise.

Having Hogan job to Austin, but not Cena, is completely ridiculous, and you even say so in your post. Let's examine how.

I will be forthright and say the point here would be to honor tradition. Just as Andre did the honors for Hogan at Wrestlemania III, I think Hogan should do the honors for the next biggest star to succeed him.

Which is John Cena!

You just said he should do the honors to the next biggest star, and there is ZERO doubt that John Cena is the biggest star right now, and it's not even close. Austin doesn't even work anymore, so how would Hogan putting him over be ANY good for long-term business?

Would it sell a match card? Sure. But, Wrestlemania 25 with Hulk Hogan retiring is going to sell no matter who he faces. So, he might as well put over the biggest star of this generation.

Of course, one can make two arguments against this point. First, one can argue, "Why the hell should I care? These wrestlers' days as superstars are long gone." While I cannot argue that they are no longer the "tentpoles" that they once were, I would argue that there is still a significant portion of fans that would like to see this happen and that would express this liking by forking over the money to see it.

It's better to make millions of fans for 10 years to fork over money due to one match, than to have 1.2 million fans fork over money for something they were going to buy anyways.

Second, one can argue, "Hogan already did the honors for Warrior and the Rock." True, very true. But, didn't Hogan bringing the Warrior to WCW specifically to beat him at Halloween Havoc '98 defeat the purpose of their first meeting?

No, not even close.

The purpose of their first meeting was to put Warrior over as the next mega face of the WWF after Hogan was gone. But, that didn't happen as personal drama kept Warrior from fulfilling that role.

The purpose of their second meeting was to put Hogan over as more of a bad guy. The meaning of the first match had already been rendered pointless by the time the second match came around.

Now, of course, if Austin is not in good enough health to wrestle again, then he shouldn't come back. However, if memory serves me correct, he has stated on more than one occasion that he has one more match left in him. Well, if he does, it should be against Hogan. And, if he happens to have two more matches left in him, the last one should be for putting over the next biggest star in WWE (who is still yet to be seen).

If Austin has one more match in him, it should be used to put over the big star of the WWE.

But, Austin is too selfish to do that, so don't be expecting that to happen.

Your answer in no way provides justification for why any current wrestler in WWE deserves to go over Hogan.

Increasing the drawing power of the current biggest draw isn't justification?

Except to assert the dominance of an uber-heel, going over a wrestling legend should be used for no other purpose than to cement another wrestler's legendary status.

And what good does that do? To increase that worker's drawing power.

Which makes sense for Cena to go over Hogan.

 

[Shocky]

LOL, no one wants to see Hogan get carried. Obviously that comes from a non Hogan fan, because no one has ever carried Hulk Hogan in a match besides Hulk fucking Hogan. Hulk Hogan damn near senior citenzship can out work and carry any body in the business today to their best match, period, end of discussion.

As for people not wanting to do the job to Hogan, says who. Do you honestly think two guys like Edge and John Cena, admittedly themselves being gigantic Hogan marks growing up, wouldn't want to lie down and put Hogan over one more time at Wrestlemania. You're out of your damn mind. People, minus Kliqsters, would be lining up to be the guy that got beat by Hogan in their last match. Hogan beating Edge or a Cena would do absolutely zero to hurt Edge or Cena, because Hogan fans still believe he can beat anyone in the business period.

Hogan should get the send off. Hogan is the man that made Wrestlemania, Hogan is the man that made the WWF, Hogan is the man that made Vince McMahon, and Hogan is the man that made modern professional wrestling. Hogan's send off would be 100 times more important then anyone on the roster. Hogan, on the silver anniversary of the show he made, deserves the appreciation of a send off.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

You just said he should do the honors to the next biggest star, and there is ZERO doubt that John Cena is the biggest star right now, and it's not even close. Austin doesn't even work anymore, so how would Hogan putting him over be ANY good for long-term business?

Would it sell a match card? Sure. But, Wrestlemania 25 with Hulk Hogan retiring is going to sell no matter who he faces. So, he might as well put over the biggest star of this generation.

It's better to make millions of fans for 10 years to fork over money due to one match, than to have 1.2 million fans fork over money for something they were going to buy anyways.

True, very true. Having Austin go over Hogan would not be good for long-term business. But, please explain to me how having Cena going over Austin would be good for long-term business. Undoubtedly, Cena is the biggest star in the world of wrestling today. But, as can be inferred from ratings and a sample of WWE event attendances over the years (respectively at http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfrat.htm and http://www.angelfire.com/wrestling/cawthon777/results.htm), he is nowhere near Hogan, Austin, or the Rock. And, given how the WWE's loyal contingent generally responds to him (read: males between the ages of 18-35) and how, as the face of the WWE for the last three years, he has been unsuccessful in comparison to the aforementioned wrestlers in breaking into the realm of pop culture, I really don't see how him going over Hogan would increase his drawing power. Honestly, without a character overhaul, I think Cena has peaked in terms of his ability to draw (and, please don't misconstrue this to mean that I think Cena's drawing power will now fall...I mean to say that, in terms of drawing power, he will never rise higher than he is right now).

So, given uncertainty over how to make their long-term future a more prosperous one, but given the fact that having Austin face Hogan would more than likely increase their buyrate by one and one-third or one and one-half as many times as it would be without this match, should WWE go with Austin-Hogan or Cena-Hogan? Of course, you should go with what will certainly make you the most money.

As far as your claim that people will buy the pay-per-view no matter who Hogan faces as long as he faces someone, you are basing this claim on the assumption that Hogan fans and Austin fans are one in the same or that Hogan fans don't look to Hogan's opponent when deciding whether or not they would like to purchase a pay-per-view. By this account then, Hogan could face the Brooklyn Brawler or any Joe off the street and the pay-per-view would still sell like gangbusters. Sure, we have the qualification that this would be his retirement, so it is possible that people would buy no matter what. But, given that Hogan would get a cut of the pay-per-view take, I think it would be in his best interest to face someone that he knew for certain would bring in buys over what he would bring in with his mere presence. As for the last part of your statement that I have quoted in this particular response, please clarify if you have the time.

No, not even close.

The purpose of their first meeting was to put Warrior over as the next mega face of the WWF after Hogan was gone. But, that didn't happen as personal drama kept Warrior from fulfilling that role.

The purpose of their second meeting was to put Hogan over as more of a bad guy. The meaning of the first match had already been rendered pointless by the time the second match came around.

With all due respect, this sounds more like your interpretation than actual fact. The statement I made is based off of both Scott Steiner's shoot interview with High Spots (it's on youtube, but I do not want to break forum rules by linking it here) and off of Ric Flair's biography, To Be The Man. If you would like to call into question the validity of these sources, then by all means do so.

Increasing the drawing power of the current biggest draw isn't justification?

And what good does that do? To increase that worker's drawing power.

Which makes sense for Cena to go over Hogan.

Again, I do not think going over Hogan would do anything for Cena's drawing power or for the long-term success of WWE. Moreover, I do not see how my statements have made it self-evident that the right person to go over Hogan is Cena.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Well I think it is not exactly the best choice to base Austin's, Hogan's and Cena's popularity and drawing power (in a sense of "popularity") on ratings - even if those are supposed to be a manifestation of that.

However, you have to keep in mind that both in the heydays of Hulkamania and the Attitude era, Wrestling reached at the time unprecedented heights - just as it had its lows in between. And the reason for those heights were definitely Hogan and Austin in their time - but not ONLY them. It was always a combination of the right guy(s) at the top to carry the business, and the right timing for them to show up, the right gimmick, the right image of the company as a whole.

You simply cannot compare the WWE of Attiude days to todays product. Back then, they had to be more edgy, had to go a lot more over the top simply in order to beat the then-superior WCW. By going the "Austin-way" and the Attitude era, they achieved this. But the ratings in those days were not that huge because of Austin, and only Austin. They were huge because there had been the successful run of WCW, because there had been nWo and Hollywood Hogan as an opposing force, and two great concepts at the time made the wrestling world worth watching, and reaching those great ratings. However today, the battle for wrestling supremacy has ebbed down, simply because WWE won. TNA is no competition for them yet, and they are now trying to appeal to a different audience. We've heard often enough that WWE is now targeting kids as main audience, so why would you want to compare John Cena's drawing power to Austin's in what you suppose is WWE's "loyal contingent" - when WWE itself has been making clear over the past few years that it actually is NOT the 18 - 30 year old males anymore it wants to appeal to?!

But what I will not deny is that WWE 2008 is not drawing nearly as much as WWE 1998. But that is only in part to blame on current stars not being "good enough". I believe most guys are doing a good job; of course you don't get a Hogan, a Rock, an Austin a dime a dozen - it is more of a problem of storylines that have gotten stale since basically everything has already been done in the Attitude era, and WWE is just overcrowded with talent now, and creative simply is not creative enough to always supply sufficiently good ideas for them. So I feel that the reason for Cena (or any other superstar of WWE today) not being as huge a draw as Hogan or Austin were is that simply "Wrestling" as a product itself just doesn't draw as huge as it did in those days, simply because the product has gotten a bit stale over the years. But that is a subject for a different thread in any case.

I agree with the sentiment however that it would be equally pointless to have Hogan job to Austin. Why? Why should Austin not job to Hogan? Both are huge stars, most likely the biggest of their generation, both would deserve to go over the other. Agreed, Hogan has probably had more high-profile wins due to his creative control over his character over the years, and we all know Hogan simply likes to win, no matter how you look at it; but in my opinion, in a case of Austin vs Hogan, both men should possibly fight to a double KO or something, establishing them as "equals", if anything. On the other hand, any current superstar to go over Hogan, no matter if they would "deserve" it or not (which might not be the case - but did Rock already necessarily "deserve" to go over Hogan at WM18?) - it would definitely help establish ANYONE as an even bigger star, be it Cena, be it Edge, be it Orton, if they could add a win over Hogan to their resume. And as has been pointed out - Hogan on a WM card is a draw in any case, no matter who he's facing.

I think either way would be pretty cool - if Hogan faces Austin, it would be a "one night only" legend vs legend match, so to speak, and probably wouldn't be useful for the future of the business; but it definitely would work as an "25th anniversary matchup", to have two of the greatest heroes of Wrestlemania alive duke it out at the silver anniversary. If Hogan was to face a current star, it could be billed as some sort of "tribute" match for Hogan, him being the one that put WM on the map in the first place. Either way would be fine for me personally.

 

[Slyfox696]

True, very true. Having Austin go over Hogan would not be good for long-term business. But, please explain to me how having Cena going over Austin would be good for long-term business.

Are you really asking me how having your 31 year old number 1 draw go over the biggest draw of all-time would be good for long-term business?

And no, that's not a rhetorical question. Because I really want to know if you meant that.

Undoubtedly, Cena is the biggest star in the world of wrestling today. But, as can be inferred from ratings and a sample of WWE event attendances over the years (respectively at http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfrat.htm and http://www.angelfire.com/wrestling/cawthon777/results.htm), he is nowhere near Hogan, Austin, or the Rock.

No, he's not near Hogan or Austin or Rock. But, he's the closest thing to it.

What are you proposing? That the WWE just wait until they get a next lightening in a bottle? Something that may not come for decades? That doesn't make any sense at all, and given the age and physical health of both Austin and Hogan, making them wait to put someone over who might never develop is silly.

You do it when their value is at the highest possible point. Right now, Austin and Hogan's value is at the highest point it will ever be. Beating Hogan or Austin will never be as important as it is right now.

And, given how the WWE's loyal contingent generally responds to him (read: males between the ages of 18-35) and how, as the face of the WWE for the last three years, he has been unsuccessful in comparison to the aforementioned wrestlers in breaking into the realm of pop culture, I really don't see how him going over Hogan would increase his drawing power.

You're basing this on static ratings.

Go back, and look at the ratings trend from 2003 to 2007 (before Chris Benoit). What you will find is a decline in ratings from 2002 to 2003, a decline again from 2003-2004. However, in 2005 ratings go back up. 2006 ratings go up again. In 2007 ratings stay up until Benoit. In that same period of time, money generated from PPV buys increases, merchandise jumps $20 million dollars a year, and total revenue jumps millions of dollars a year. Live event attendance rose with year after year, even with price increases.

All of this happened when John Cena was the WWE Champion and was the undisputed number 1 guy. His CD debuted at #15 on the charts, his WWE movie was the only WWE movie to actually profit, and he is on several national commercials, as well as having appeared on numerous day time talk shows and night time talk shows.

There is NO ONE in the WWE right now with the mainstream appeal of John Cena. And while males 15-24 may boo him, they aren't leaving. So, it doesn't really matter because while they stay and boo, Cena is creating new fans to stand up and cheer.

There is no one in the WWE more worthy of a Hogan job than Cena. And there might not be for years to come.

So, given uncertainty over how to make their long-term future a more prosperous one, but given the fact that having Austin face Hogan would more than likely increase their buyrate by one and one-third or one and one-half as many times as it would be without this match, should WWE go with Austin-Hogan or Cena-Hogan? Of course, you should go with what will certainly make you the most money.

But, Austin-Hogan would draw alone. Why give that match away at Wrestlemania, when you won't generate a significant difference of money from it? That makes no sense.

In the end, Wrestlemania will sell out 70,000 seats, and will draw anywhere from 1 million to 1.2 or 1.3 million buys. Whether Hogan and Austin have a match or not, that is what will happen. And that will be for one night's benefit only. It isn't going to boost ratings, and it isn't going to increase the WWE's bottom line.

Save that match for a Summerslam, where you COULD see significant improvement in buyrates.

As far as your claim that people will buy the pay-per-view no matter who Hogan faces as long as he faces someone, you are basing this claim on the assumption that Hogan fans and Austin fans are one in the same or that Hogan fans don't look to Hogan's opponent when deciding whether or not they would like to purchase a pay-per-view.

False.

I'm basing that claim on the fact that Wrestlemania is going to sell whether those two wrestle or not. I'm not saying that Hogan vs. Austin at Backlash wouldn't significantly improve buyrates, I'm saying that Hogan vs. Austin at Wrestlemania won't significantly improve buyrates.

By this account then, Hogan could face the Brooklyn Brawler or any Joe off the street and the pay-per-view would still sell like gangbusters.

Hulk Hogan vs. the Brooklyn Brawler would sell at Wrestlemania the same number of buys as Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage. Or Hulk Hogan vs. Steve Austin. Or Steve Austin vs. Sting. Or whatever combination you want.

As for the last part of your statement that I have quoted in this particular response, please clarify if you have the time.

Having Hogan put over the next big draw will make for better business for 10 years, than having Hogan face Austin, which will only sell a card to the people who were going to buy it anyways.

With all due respect, this sounds more like your interpretation than actual fact. The statement I made is based off of both Scott Steiner's shoot interview with High Spots (it's on youtube, but I do not want to break forum rules by linking it here) and off of Ric Flair's biography, To Be The Man. If you would like to call into question the validity of these sources, then by all means do so.

Who cares what Steiner or Flair think?

Use your own head. The Warrior had already failed with the ball he was given. Hogan beating Warrior COULDN'T have nullified what happened at WM6, because what happened at WM6 had already been nullified by Warriors actions. Warrior was brought in to sell PPVs, and make Hogan look more like a bad guy. That's it.

Use your own mind on that one. It didn't matter if Hogan faced Warrior at Halloween Havoc or not. Because what happened at WM6 had already been rendered obsolete by 1992.

Again, I do not think going over Hogan would do anything for Cena's drawing power or for the long-term success of WWE. Moreover, I do not see how my statements have made it self-evident that the right person to go over Hogan is Cena.

1. Hogan vs. Austin does NOTHING for long-term business. You agreed to that.

2. Cena is the biggest draw today. You agreed to that.

3. Beating Hogan and Austin will never mean as much as it does right now. This is a fact, and I think you should understand why.

4. Thus, you can't hold them off in the hopes that you MIGHT get another mega draw. You might as well use them to put over you biggest draw, in order to increase his drawing power. As you said, to put Cena on that same legendary plateau as the other guys.