Hulk Hogan is the most underrated wrestler of all time

[HBK-aholic]

You make it sound like those guys are in some way comparable with Hogan. Just remember that A. none of them were ever near to him in terms of drawing and B. each of them were, whichever way you look at it, an attempt by Vince to recreate the success he had with Hogan.

Because all of them are big stars, and all would be able to sell out an arena if they came back to wrestle years after 'retiring'. I thought I made that pretty clear. If The Undertaker 'retired' at WM 25, and didn't wrestle again until around WM 30, that would also be huge. While I'm not trying to say Hogan is bad, I'm trying to say that him selling arenas out for one off matches year after his prime is something most of the stars could do.

Quite why you've put HBK there I'll never know. He was champ during the lowest point in recent WWF history and frequently got booed as a face champ (see vs. Sid at Survivor Series 96) and cheered as a heel (see DX). Not even in the same league.

It's such a stupid argument, which people have argued against time and time again. Have you not got it yet?

 

[JerryvonKramer]

Because all of them are big stars, and all would be able to sell out an arena if they came back to wrestle years after 'retiring'. I thought I made that pretty clear. If The Undertaker 'retired' at WM 25, and didn't wrestle again until around WM 30, that would also be huge. While I'm not trying to say Hogan is bad, I'm trying to say that him selling arenas out for one off matches year after his prime is something most of the stars could do.

Granted, they'd all be able to sell out arenas but let's say the Arena was The Pontiac Silverdome, or, even better, Wembley Stadium here in the UK: who could fill that 80,000+ capacity with ease?

Do you think that many people would flock to see HBK?

The difference is that people who know absolutely nothing about wrestling know Hogan, whereas most other workers are known only to fans. That's a fact. My financee, for example, who HATES wrestling, still knows Hogan from Hogan Knows Best -- I reckon I could persuade her to see a show if he was on the card. How many millions are in the same sort of category as her do you think?

You sound like you're playing down Hogan's drawing power -- it's at least triple that of someone like HBK.

It's such a stupid argument, which people have argued against time and time again. Have you not got it yet?

Got what? The figures speak for themselves. The slump coincides exactly with Hogan leaving and Bret/ Michaels becoming champs.

Unless you're a big mark for Bret or HBK, I can't see any argument against that.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Granted, they'd all be able to sell out arenas but let's say the Arena was The Pontiac Silverdome, or, even better, Wembley Stadium here in the UK: who could fill that 80,000+ capacity with ease?

Do you think that many people would flock to see HBK?

The difference is that people who know absolutely nothing about wrestling know Hogan, whereas most other workers are known only to fans. That's a fact. My financee, for example, who HATES wrestling, still knows Hogan from Hogan Knows Best -- I reckon I could persuade her to see a show if he was on the card. How many millions are in the same sort of category as her do you think?

Of course people that don't watch wrestling know Hogan - he's made that much of an ass of himself in the media. His reality show is nothing better than Big Brother, which every complains about oh, so often. Saying Hogan is the best because non-wrestling fans know him is a stupid argument, considering he has a reality show on one of the most watched channels. It would also make The Rock the best ever, because of how many people know him outside of wrestling.

You sound like you're playing down Hogan's drawing power -- it's at least triple that of someone like HBK.

Got what? The figures speak for themselves. The slump coincides exactly with Hogan leaving and Bret/ Michaels becoming champs.

Unless you're a big mark for Bret or HBK, I can't see any argument against that.

People don't say they drew a lot. I believe the argument is, before that time, and after it, there has never been competition as good as what HBK/Hart were up against. Cena, at the moment, his toughest competition is TNA. Do you see a difference between that and WCW? Now, this half is off-topic, so if you want to continue the argument, I suggest replying to this part in a thread made for the matter.

 

[GameOver]

You never saw him botch any moves? Obviously watching different matches then. He wasn't the most coordinated guy. He did sell moves well, probably oversold em really

Saying that i agree that charisma wise he was off the chart, and at the time he was perfect, can't think what it woulda been like if the Hogan character never existed, and it almost didn't, he quit or was sacked b4 Hulkamania ever existed and had no intention of returning, least thats in his own words.

But a twist of fate convinced him to give it another go, the rest is history

His basic moveset was a precursor to the way wrestling main eventers are today in general. 6 moves tops plus some fillers.

Aswell as the politics of getting yourself over at the cost of most other people.

Also if ya go by some non violent quotes from Randy Savage, he had a very "Rock" persona. Refering to himself in the third person when talking backstage for instance.

Looking back now 20+yrs later, IMO His wrestling ability overall though was just avg. It was everyone else he wrestled that made him shine. Kinda like John Cena though he has improved

Lastly, you do realise Vince McMahon created the stage for Hogan to shine and allowed the 3 yr undefeated streak without that there would be no Hulkamania and on the flipside without the 300pound Bronze God look that was Terry Bolea on steroids who knows where we'd be today,

Underrated wrestler Hardly, overrated wrestling technique definately. But nothing will get passed the legacy his character left.

 

[reddevil69]

You never saw him botch any moves? Obviously watching different matches then. He wasn't the most coordinated guy. He did sell moves well, probably oversold em really

Saying that i agree that charisma wise he was off the chart, and at the time he was perfect, can't think what it woulda been like if the Hogan character never existed, and it almost didn't, he quit or was sacked b4 Hulkamania ever existed and had no intention of returning, least thats in his own words.

But a twist of fate convinced him to give it another go, the rest is history

His basic moveset was a precursor to the way wrestling main eventers are today in general. 6 moves tops plus some fillers.

Aswell as the politics of getting yourself over at the cost of most other people.

Also if ya go by some non violent quotes from Randy Savage, he had a very "Rock" persona. Refering to himself in the third person when talking backstage for instance.

Looking back now 20+yrs later, IMO His wrestling ability overall though was just avg. It was everyone else he wrestled that made him shine. Kinda like John Cena though he has improved

Lastly, you do realise Vince McMahon created the stage for Hogan to shine and allowed the 3 yr undefeated streak without that there would be no Hulkamania and on the flipside without the 300pound Bronze God look that was Terry Bolea on steroids who knows where we'd be today,

Underrated wrestler Hardly, overrated wrestling technique definately. But nothing will get passed the legacy his character left.

You seem to be forgetting that "Hulkamania" was already running at a fever pitch in the AWA and all of it's territories...hogan and Bockwinkle were selling out everywhere and making huge money for Gagnes promotion in 1982 and 1983...Hogan wore a homemade "hulkamania" shirt to the ring every night....vince did not create anything, he simply paid off all the cable affiliates and got them to carry his wrestling show exclusively and then offered hogan a better deal than what he had with AWA and mass marketed Hogan...

Vince was a brilliant promoter and his risks with MTV and NBC all paid off and the product exploded, but he chose Hogan as his vessel because of what he saw happening in Minnesota and surrounding areas with hogans popularity...it's a no-brainer, what works in a local market will work nationally if it's made available to the demographic of said product, in this case wrestling fans...all the Hogan trademarks such as playing rock music for his entrance, the term hulkamania, and all of his promos and ring style were already in place before he came in as a face in January of 1984 to the WWF.

and his first title run was a four year undefeated streak, not three...January 23, 1984-Feb5th,1988

 

[Mighty NorCal]

First of all, id like to tell anyone using the "limited moveset" argument, that its an extremely moronic thing to say.

Really guys?? Really ?? so you think that he "doesnt know" or isnt capable of doing other moves?? You do understand, that its booked, and not real right?? Just refer to the videos the good man AgentMicheal name is too long posted. Obviously the man is capable of doing more moves, but the moves he DOES do make sense for his character. His character is a brutish brawler, an american action hero brought to life. So for him to be shooting star presses and upside down bridge hammerlocks would be pretty fuckin stupid.

I also laugh at everyone bringing up the botched moves in the Warrior match. Way to go to the extreme there, as thats probably the worst match in wrestling history.

Fact of the matter is, he was an absolute ten in every last facet of wrestling. Being a good wrestler has fuck all to do with the size of your moveset, and EVERYTHING to do with your move set being belivable, and you being able to execute it and make it look real. He did it perfectly.

and to anyone saying Hogans promo's "all sound the same"....well fuck, then I guess every wrestler who has ever wrestled promos sounded the same. What more does anyone say besides "this dude sucks, and im gonna kick his ass" as the basic structure of a promo?? Its all in the delivery. and no one delivered better than Hulk Hogan.

The silly misguided arguments in this thread are very obvious, defined proof that Hulk Hogan is the most underrated wrestler of all time.

 

[Queers and Steers]

I definitely agree he is the move underrated among the IWC but in general it's hard to say he is the most underrated since he was the most successful and most famous wrestler of all time. But everything you said was true about him, never has there been a wrestler that seriously had the crowd in the palm of his hand like he did. It was remarkable, his storytelling in the ring was off the charts. EVERYTHING he ever did got a reaction from the crowd, you cant say that about any other wrestler. His promos were amazing as well, his promo before his match with Warrior at WM6 maybe the single greatest promo of all time.

He also played the Hollywood character to a T. He just came across so arrogant and so cocky just like he was supposed to. Whether it was the way he walked to the ring or just him playing the belt like it was a guitar everything he did with that character was great and the heat he drew for it was amazing.

So yeah there really isn't a doubt in my mind that he is the greatest of all time and I laugh at the people that say "anybody could of did what Hogan did if they were given that spot" because that is just bullshit and laughable. I don't think there is another wrestler atleast none that I know of that could of did the shit Hogan did and made wrestling as big as it was like Hogan did regardless if they got the push like Hogan did or not. The closest one would be Savage but I don't even think he could have pulled that off.

Oh yeah by the way all I could see was "Hogan was the most" when I looked on the front page so I thought for sure it was gonna say "Hogan was the most overrated wrestler" so I clicked on it right away figuring it was gonna be some newbie smark saying that so I could have owned him.lol I clicked on it so fast I didn't even get to see that it was you that wrote it.

hmm people talk about how great his promos were but usually did the same exact promo just plug in a name a few let me tell u brothers and u know borother hulkamani is in running wild blah blah blah what u gonna do. check out this promo than tell me if hes so great. the code wouldnt work. so heres the url watch this crap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19uWZUhSBGY

 

[Mighty NorCal]

and WHAT else do people say in promos??? Please, elaborate for me, what in the fuck is so absolutely different about what other people say??? EVERYONE uses catch phrases, and EVERYONE has the same basic structure in a promo, they just do it in different ways. What, becuase Hulk Hogan didnt cuss, or use cool sarcastic humor, I guess his promos werent good? The Hulk Hogan promos of the late 80s and early 90s are what ALL promos are modeled after, in phsycology, playing a role, and delivery. You make yourself look foolish claiming anything else.

 

[klunderbunker]

Hogan is indeed underrated. He's easily the best performer of all time. No one, and I mean no one, is ever going to touch what this man did. He almost single handedly took wrestling from being regional to being international. His name and face and voice are all legendary. As far as in the ring and people saying he wasn't good, I'm running out of patience with you. I've said this many, many times: would it make sense for Khali to use a hurricanrana? How about Rey or Noble using the Last Ride? OF COURSE NOT. Hogan was 6'6 and weighed over 300lbs. He was a big, power guy and he wrestled like a big, power guy. His style made sense for him. As for promos, if you think Hogan was bad on the mic, I can't help you. He had more charisma than most wrestling companies' entire rosters. The fans reacted to him which is the hardest thing to do. This is the best way i can put it: Wrestling is like a movie. It's a story that you're telling in the ring. They know it's not real, just like in a movie. Actors, or wrestlers, are people that are familiar but doing something different every time. The key is to make the audience forget that you're an actor. No one has ever done that better than Hogan. Why he's viewed as overrated is beyond me.

 

[Queers and Steers]

hell it was impossible to against against him look at the people he fought plus his character represented America it couldn't fail! especially when going against people like the Iron Sheik and Sargent slaughter. people in America are gonna support anything that is meant to represent America, so he had an easy way to e so loved plus he rarely fought rhe other top talent in the company at that time. not to mention his HollyWood Hogan character came at a time where the family friendly stuff was dead so they came up with an bad guy character at the time where that's what everybody wanted to see the guy never took a risk, or went against the grain. i give it to him we worked hard for wrestling and made it bigger, but since when is bigger better? i would much rather wrestling be smaller but have better wrestling and better matches he made it into a circus it wasnt ven about how good the matches were because his were lousy

 

[Mighty NorCal]

His matches were absolutely fantastic. 99% of the time he never botched ANYTHING, and put on some of the greatest pro wrestling matches of all time. He played his character to a tee in the ring, and the crowd hung off of every last move he preformed. The fact ALL Higan had to do was punch, kick, bodyslam, and clothesline, and be the most popular wrestler ever, speaks VOLUMES about how good he was in the ring. He didnt NEED to do a bunch of out of control crazy shit to get over, becuase he was JUST that damn good

 

[Queers and Steers]

i give you that he knows how to control the fans like no other, but the guy just didn't do it for me. i don't think its fair for guys like Million dollar man, Jake the snake, piper, and steamboat to never have got the WWF title solely because Hogan was the champ. you cannot tell me these guys didn't deserve title reigns. in any other era they would have been champions! look how great of a character Ted d was and most younger fans will never know because he never got that proper chance to build a resume. macho man, warrior, flair and Andre the giant were the only people to hold the belt before 93 which is when the steroid scandal stuff started to go down. and Andre had it for what fourty five seconds/ macho man only got it twice, and warrior didn;t deserve it over the million dollar man in my opinion. i just think while he feasted everyone else famined. people call Triple H selfish, and a ball hog but never mention Hogan. i don't think no man should be bigger than wrestling, but that's the way Hogan acts, that's the way Vince treated him. its partly Vince's fault that i don't respect Hogan, because hwe saw all of the money he could make it with Hogan ,and simply just forgot about everybody else

 

[ZEUS]

His in ring work does get bashed perhaps too much, and he does have probably the BEST character in the history of wrestling, but to say that he never botched a move is hardly a solid argument when the amount of moves he used can be counted on two hands. Yes, he did the moves he did do very well, but how complicated were any. The hardest move to perform that Hogan used was a bodyslam. Best character, yes. Best in ring worker, no, but he is underrated. Best ever, only if by best you mean biggest draw.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Well since thats how you evaluate what a good wrestler is, then obviously, yes.

Well. The Great Kahli, and The Ultimate Warrior dont have exactly vast move sets either, but they fucked shit up on a regular basis. So its a fantastic argument. The amount of moves you have in your means fuck all if they arent belivable when you do them. You dont have to out and out fuck up a move to botch it. Keep that in mind.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

No, in my opinion Hogan is not underrated. He is often talked about fondly. He is one of the most popular wrestlers ever. He still gets great reactions when he makes an appearance. it is silly to say he is underrated simply because not everyone may share in an opinion of Hogan greatness. I believe Hogan's place as a great wrestler is firmly cemented.

I, however, am of the opinion that hogan is slightly overrated. While I do not think he is shit I do believe, at the risk of being bashed, that he is given credit for things that, when looked at might not be so great.

First, lets look at his history. He starts in the smaller leagues, works his way up to the WWF, climbs the ladder and is...fired. Thats right, Hogan's first run in the WWF ended with him being fired. So away he goes to the AWA, where he starts as a heel, turns face, starts Hulkamania, is in line for a world title run and is told...he is not needed. While he is not fired from the AWA he is told in no uncertain terms that he could be replaced.

So, Hogan's first two runs in the big leagues both end somewhat with a lackluster finale. Of course, to be fair, Hogan would leave the AWA and return to the WWF where the rest is history. I am just pointing out that Hogan's begining was not all that great. Most seem to think that he stepped out of a burning bush to save all wrestlingkind. Simply not true.

Second, his moveset. Now, I agree that he knew more moves then he let on. I agree that he did not need them for his character. That is all well and good. However, since he chose to do so he then opens himself up to critisism as well as praise. Like the old saying ' You have to take the bad with the good '. He rose to the top performing few moves. Children loved it and ate it up. Now those kids are all adults and no longer love it. now people watch old matches and notice that they are not that good. in retrospect we see that his matches, while at the time seemed larger then life, now can't hold water. Lokk at his two most famous. the Andre match at WM3 is constantly picked on as being boring and overshadowed by the Steamboat/Savage match. And the WM6 match is picked on. Sorry to say, but that is part of his legacy.

Mighty Norcal said that Hogan's matches were fabulous. I disagree. I say his matches were fabulous at the time. In otherwords it was the excitement and build up which made the matches great. Watch them years afterwards without the build up and the matches are not that great. I would be curious to know which of his matches you think are fabulous.

Someone mentioned that wrestlers were like actors. Actors begin to get critisised if they do only one type of movie. So it is with Hogan.

Which brings me to his promos. While I am not as harsh as others were, I too think that his promos were not that great. While it is true that wrestlers will use catchphrases, Hogan tended to make his promo only catchphrases. Rhodes and Flair have many promos on their DVDs because they were able to alter and evolve their interviews, keeping them fresh. Hogan didn't or couldn't.

klunderbunker said-

Hogan is indeed underrated. He's easily the best performer of all time. No one, and I mean no one, is ever going to touch what this man did. He almost single handedly took wrestling from being regional to being international.

And here is really one point where things may appear one way but, upon closer examination, we may find that they are as clear cut as we thought. So...Hogan is fired from the WWF. Hogan goes to the AWA, developes his character there and is set to win the AWA world title. Gange and he have a dispute over whether gange is intitled to any of the money Hogan is making off of merchendizing. they can't reach an agreement so Hogan's title reign is pulled. Soon after Hogan bails. Now, honestly, had Gange and Hogan reached an agreement and Hogan stayed in the AWA instead of jumping to the WWF, would he have been as big? At the risk of being presumptuous(sp), no. We will come back to that.

So, now Hogan is in the WWF and everything falls perfectly into place. Hogan is already popular, and right as he goes to the WWF Rocky 3 comes out, putting Hogan in the nations eye. Vince quickly introduces Hogan( he helps Backland with the Somoans ) and gives him the title. Vince saw where this could go and quickly pushed it in the right direction. He gave Hogan the ball and Hogan ran with it. Now to be clear, Hogan took the ball and did great with it. he deserves to be called great and remembered. I want to be sure we are clear that I realise he was great. just not as great as some say.

So, the question becomes...could someone else have done it? Answer...we don't know. It is impossible to say. Vince was going national. Had he not got Hogan he was going with Snuka. Snuka was incredably popular. He was a star overseas and was well known in different areas of the country. The only thing Snuka lacked was the Rocky movie. So it is really not fair to say that Snuka could not have done what hogan did.

So, to quash klunderbunker's misconception. hogan did not take anything national. Vince did. Hogan was the tool. Vince does not get Hogan, he uses another tool. Hogan in the AWA without Vince. Does not go national.

But, has anyone truly come close to Hogan's popularity. A few come to mind...

Sammartino- popular enough to hold the belt for 7 years. in fact, one could argue that without sammartino there is no WWF, and therfore no Hogan. When sammartino lost the title to Kololf they had to announce to the crowd that Sammartino kept the title to avoid a riot. The crowd was going to riot because Bruno lost. Riot. Pretty popular.

Vern Gagne- Vern was so popular that they created a league and world title just for him. Thats right. When the NWA failed to give Gagne shots at the world title the AWA was formed with gagne quickly winning the title. Gagne was nationally known. Gagne did TV commercials. Gagne made a movie in the 70s. Gagne held multiple world titles, some for years at a time. Sounds popular.

Just imagine if Bruno or Verne had the Vince PR ship backing them in their prime. I got one more.

Steve Austan- I won't list all his stuff here as most know them well. I will say that he is considered to be as good a Hogan and have down it in less time.

So, we have learned that we can pick on his moveset; his promos were not really that great; he did not take wrestling national and his popularity may have been rivaled if others were given the same chance. Hogan is/was great. he deserves all his fame. He deserves to be remembered. he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. But bigger then wrestling? Not by a longshot. And underated? Not even close.

 

[SquareSix]

Hogan is a mixed bag in my opinion. If ANYONE tries to deny his incredible impact on wrestling then they are insane. The man was and still is hugely over with any crowd he steps in front of. He is probably the best promo guy ever in the business. He was able to make a massive leap from the biggest face in wrestling into the biggest heel when he became Hollywood Hogan and he pulled it off seamlessly. That is by no means an easy feat to accomplish. Could you imagine a guy like Cena trying to become a heel and having the ratings not crash through the floor? But Hulk kept the ratings way up as both heel and face because is the best face and best heel that has ever been in a promotion. You have to respect him for all of that, but to say that he rarley botched a move isn't saying much considering his matches usually consisted of punches,irish whips,clotheslines,body slams and the leg drop. If a wrestler only used those moves in every match, it's pretty hard to botch that. But again you have to look at how well he sold the impact of any offensive and defensive moves. Bottom line is that if you want to get into who is the best technical wrestler of all time, I doubt Hogan's name should appear high on that list, but to not realize Hogan as the best wrestler overall (promos,selling merch,getting over with the crowd,etc.) would be foolish. He is the quintessential legend of wrestling for a reason.