How To Get Hot Crowds Back?

[frostbite2819]

ok so this is my very first thread so bear with me.
i apologize in advance if its been done before.
so i have been watching a lot of wwf and wcw shows from 1998 to 2002 lately and that era was just amazing in the area of crowd reactions. on raw AND nitro (well 96-99 for nitro but anyway) the crowds were completely bananas on a weekly basis, and for the ENTIRE SHOW on most weeks. i know it is a different era now but that shouldnt matter.

the 'too many kids' arguement does not hold water simply because look at wwf circa 1986-91. the crowds were extremely hot then too and that audience had just as many, if not more, fans that were children as wwe does today.
now i really enjoy wrestling, regardless of the era, i am not an AE beater in the sense that i want the era back or anything, i love wwe today as much as i did in 1988 and 1998, but the aura of the crowd then was much better, cant be denied.
look at cm punk: love the guy. has done so much for wwe in the last few years, let alone the last couple months. this storyline is the best in years.
HOWEVER, (i might get blasted for saying this but do the research),
guys like rikishi, kane, and rvd were getting louder pops on a WEEKLY basis ten years ago than punk gets today, and they were technically the MID-CARDERS!!!!!!! go back and watch raw tonight. his pops were great, but nothing on the scale of back then. and he is the hottest thing going right now. (yes i know he blew the roof off in chicago but that was his hometown).
this is not a complaint thread, i just know there are some great wrestling minds on this site, i am 31 and i have been a fan since 1985 but i have never really got to 'talk wrestling', as my friends dont watch it, so i would like to pick your brains a bit, so my question is this: what in the world does wwe have to do to get those hot crowds back? is there anything that can be done? i have a few ideas but i will defer first to people that have been around longer than me. thanks for your time.

 

[#hamler]

I don't know if they can. It seems everything they do they can't get the older fans back. Maybe it's because wrestling simply isn't cool anymore. But if you notice, tonight's live crowd was pretty pumped for Raw tonight. I think the WWE needs to keep up with these good storylines to get better crowd reactions mixed with solid in-ring action. When The Rock returned people simultaneously came in their seats, one of the loudest pops of the year. Maybe that's what is needed; Attitude Era stars to make people care again. Or maybe the WWE needs to putt a lot of work into a star to make the crowd care again. Mostly, I think fans grow up and grow out of wrestling. Those who grew up in the 90s just don't care anymore.

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

not really every episode have there bad crowds! this crowd tonight had no cm punk fans and was pro cena but last week the crowd was 70-30 pro punk!! different city's i wish every crowd was as great as chicago

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

It's kind of a bogus claim. Ever actually go back and watch this stuff or do you just youtube your favorite moments and rely on memory for the rest?

The 80s, early 90s, and pretty much every other time except the attitude era had crowds similar to today.

Attitude Era crowds were more rowdy because the WWF was practically a Jerry Springer show. Their target audience was red neck/white trash adults who would go to the shows and drink beer. Drunken white trash adults are probably the loudest people on the planet, doesn't mean it's good for your company.

Anytime you market your product towards families it's going to be less rowdy and not as loud. Thing is, if you go to a live show, you see that EVERYONE is having a blast. I cannot tell you how fun it is to watch a dad and his son and his sons friends go to a show and the kids are marking out for everything. They don't just cheer Cena BTW, they're into each match. They just aren't as loud because they aren't as big. Plus they don't chant as much (chants are fucking annoying sometimes, it's the worst part of ROH). The kids generally just shout stuff like "watch out he's behind you" or "yea, hit him" or "you suck Christian". I sat next to a family that had about 7 kids with them. They all sang every single word to Orton's theme. They're not as loud, but they're into it.

I wish I could have taken a picture of an image I saw at the house show. Before it started I was getting a drink, in front of me was a dad in jean shorts, boots, the SCSA shirt and a stone cold hat, his son was wearing jean shorts, sneakers, a Cena shirt, and a Cena hat. It was beautiful.

That's what you get at today's WWE shows. They're not as loud as the wife beating, welfare sucking, drunk attitude era white trash fans that are the ones who really gave wrestling a bad name. However, they have fun at shows and are as loud as any crowds in the non tude-era days.

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

I sat next to a family that had about 7 kids with them. They all sang every single word to Orton's theme.

Seven little Brats singing about hearing voices in there head telling them to do bad things... am I the only one who finds that a little disturbing?

Now, look, I understand why WWE is targeting kids, its called replenishing their fanbase. its a smart business move. I may not particularly understand everything that they do (making wrestling a bad word, completely cutting out blood from matches, ect.) but I do understand. and what a lot of people need to understand is that sooner or later all of these kids that are fans who are between the ages of 5-10 with be 15-20 and WWE will HAVE to change their product to appeal to them.

its the exact same thing that happened in 96-98. all of the little Hulkamaniacs from the 80's had grown up, seen that what they had been taught as children had been lies and had become jaded and cynical. they didn't want to be told to say their prayers and eat their vitamins by a bunch of filthy drug addicts. they wanted someone to say, "well, doesn't this shit just suck?" then to beat the shit out of anything resembling authority.

do I like everything about the current WWE product? nope. do I like some parts? absolutely. would I do some things differently? of course. but I have no power other than my remote, which I use full force when I don't like something. trust me, if the ratings started to suddenly drop by 50-75% when John Cena or Randal Keith Orton appeared on screen than things would change in a hurry, but they don't, so nothing if going to change any time soon.

and BTW, the Attitude Era... Six words, "I choppy choppy your pee pee"

 

[This Is My Name Thank You]

This whole CM PUNK thing is getting a bit over done. He isn't a draw or he get's crappy pops or he gets the most cheers or whatever. The guy has been in the true Main Event of the A show for about 3 months now. 3 months!!!! Give the guy sometime to break himself in and break himself into the fans. Stop sayin he can or can't draw like Cena can. Cena has been a Main Eventer for years now, Punk has 3 months. I am not a huge fan of Punk but damn, 3 months time an he is already being looked at as a failure in some eyes. Sorry about the rant a rave but damn give him TIME!!!

An for the fan's and the crowds, I just think it depeends on where they are at. Sometimes the Crowds are crazy loud and sometimes they are quite and dull. I think there are hot crowds out there just a lot of little kids and it take 10 kids to be as loud as one Adult. My guess anyway. And I think it depeends on the crowd there is too. An also can't relate everything to the Attitude Era either for who wouldn't get excited to see a dude smashed through a table or chair or thumbtacks? Thats what those were their for to make the Crowd cheer. Now the WWE is relying on Promo's and in ring work. Sure the gone down on the violence but that is better. it will give guys more time to be a real charcter instead of hitting someone with a chair 80 times. Crowd's will come in time as Triple H seems to know what he is doing and I see this as becoming a time where every crowd will be a hot crowd again. PG era or not, I personally like it better. Don't need blood and tables to make wrestling great. We need great wrestler's and stories to make it great. An we will get that soon enough.

 

[JaylisJayP]

You don't need a long post to answer this question.

1. Consistent compelling storylines

2. Interesting characters people care about

Sorry to say, but the quality of the wrestling has virtually nothing to do with hot crowds and ratings. It's drama people want.

 

[KNPKH2ster]

This whole CM PUNK thing is getting a bit over done. He isn't a draw or he get's crappy pops or he gets the most cheers or whatever. The guy has been in the true Main Event of the A show for about 3 months now. 3 months!!!! Give the guy sometime to break himself in and break himself into the fans. Stop sayin he can or can't draw like Cena can. Cena has been a Main Eventer for years now, Punk has 3 months. I am not a huge fan of Punk but damn, 3 months time an he is already being looked at as a failure in some eyes. Sorry about the rant a rave but damn give him TIME!!!

An for the fan's and the crowds, I just think it depeends on where they are at. Sometimes the Crowds are crazy loud and sometimes they are quite and dull. I think there are hot crowds out there just a lot of little kids and it take 10 kids to be as loud as one Adult. My guess anyway. And I think it depeends on the crowd there is too. An also can't relate everything to the Attitude Era either for who wouldn't get excited to see a dude smashed through a table or chair or thumbtacks? Thats what those were their for to make the Crowd cheer. Now the WWE is relying on Promo's and in ring work. Sure the gone down on the violence but that is better. it will give guys more time to be a real charcter instead of hitting someone with a chair 80 times. Crowd's will come in time as Triple H seems to know what he is doing and I see this as becoming a time where every crowd will be a hot crowd again. PG era or not, I personally like it better. Don't need blood and tables to make wrestling great. We need great wrestler's and stories to make it great. An we will get that soon enough.

I also agree with the fact that CM Punk needs to be given time to grow as a main eventer. I definitely know that Punk has potential to be a main eventer. Speaking of crowds, it's definitely true that some areas crowds are louder, while some are silent but could it be possible that WWE lowers the volume on crowd reactions on some shows? Not just WWE, but other sports like football, baseball, etc. For example, when I went to a Subway Series game on 4th of July weekend at Citi Field the crowd was very loud. The previous night when I watching it on TV, it appeared that they were silent. However, I realized that TV doesn't do justice when it comes to crowd reactions.

Going to what you said on chair shots, its true that you don't need cursing, intentional bleeding, chairshots, or sexual innuendo to have a good match. Just you need is 2 people that can put on a good match, and can tell a good story.

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

it take 10 kids to be as loud as one Adult.

I have a four year old nephew, who LOVES to go to Chuck E Cheese (don't ask me why he wants to eat in a restaurant who's mascot is a fucking rat, because I have quit trying to figure it out) and trust me, kids can be pretty fucking loud... have your ever been to a crowded Chuck E Cheese in a weekend? give be one drunk, belligerent asshole over 10 screaming little brats ANY DAY OF THE WEEK... at least your can knock the drunk guy out to shut him up, all you can do with the kids is scream louder than they do, at which point you risk making them all cry, which is a whole new headache

An also can't relate everything to the Attitude Era either for who wouldn't get excited to see a dude smashed through a table or chair or thumbtacks? Thats what those were their for to make the Crowd cheer.

No... the Attitude Era was all about dick and titty jokes mixed with people saying ass, bitch and piss a lot to get a reaction

Don't need blood and tables to make wrestling great. We need great wrestler's and stories to make it great. An we will get that soon enough.

while I agree that we don't need blood during, lets say an opening promo **cough**RicFlair**cough** I do think that it can help further a story in some cases. Two guys who hate each other enough to lock themselves inside a giant chain link fence and beat each other until the issue is resolved or one man just can't fight anymore... yet no one bleeds? I can suspend my disbelief, but not that much.

 

[The_Sharpshooter]

I think its more of a city-by-city thing. Some cities aren't as hype as others. You can bet on loud reactions in NY, Philly, Chicago, Atlanta. That crowd on Raw was just terrible. You had Miz versus CM Punk in a good TV match, and they sat on their hands the whole time.

But to answer the question, I guess creative could write towards the specific city that they are in at the time, while pushing their storylines & characters through said city. For example, Tulsa was mainly a face-friendly city, so it was smart to put Sheamus winning in the main event with Cena to push the face that he's a face. But its probably not the best place to give the anti-hero "tweener" Punk 3-4 segments. You write for the city, you get more excitement.

 

[This Is My Name Thank You]

I have a four year old nephew, who LOVES to go to Chuck E Cheese (don't ask me why he wants to eat in a restaurant who's mascot is a fucking rat, because I have quit trying to figure it out) and trust me, kids can be pretty fucking loud... have your ever been to a crowded Chuck E Cheese in a weekend? give be one drunk, belligerent asshole over 10 screaming little brats ANY DAY OF THE WEEK... at least your can knock the drunk guy out to shut him up, all you can do with the kids is scream louder than they do, at which point you risk making them all cry, which is a whole new headache

No... the Attitude Era was all about dick and titty jokes mixed with people saying ass, bitch and piss a lot to get a reaction

while I agree that we don't need blood during, lets say an opening promo **cough**RicFlair**cough** I do think that it can help further a story in some cases. Two guys who hate each other enough to lock themselves inside a giant chain link fence and beat each other until the issue is resolved or one man just can't fight anymore... yet no one bleeds? I can suspend my disbelief, but not that much.

I have been to Chuke E CHeese too, and I understan little kids are loud as I also have a 5 year old nephew. Just think though if your nephew was to scream and you were to scream who would be louder?


Yes that was King with his PUPPIES!!!! I understand that it was a lot of sexual jokes and what not. But was a lot of violence in it too. An sure there was a lot of PIE jokes and Jericho ripping on Steph's boob job and what not. But again there was also a lot of blood and carnage too.

I agree, for I never said I wasn't for the blood and violence at all. I just stated they help bring in crowd reaction. I do think its funny how you hit your head on steal chains that you don't bleed. Sure it is fake but at times yes I do agree it does an can help further a story line.

But also good promo's, constant good flowing story line's and good wrestling can also get good crowd reaction too. Punk get's good reaction for how he deliever's his promo's same go's with The Miz, ADR, Christian too. So words can make a crowd go crazy with CHEER's or BOO's.

Sure Im one for violence which is why I miss ECW but take thar away from the original ECW and how far would it go?

 

[frostbite2819]

It's kind of a bogus claim. Ever actually go back and watch this stuff or do you just youtube your favorite moments and rely on memory for the rest?

The 80s, early 90s, and pretty much every other time except the attitude era had crowds similar to today.

Attitude Era crowds were more rowdy because the WWF was practically a Jerry Springer show. Their target audience was red neck/white trash adults who would go to the shows and drink beer. Drunken white trash adults are probably the loudest people on the planet, doesn't mean it's good for your company.

Anytime you market your product towards families it's going to be less rowdy and not as loud. Thing is, if you go to a live show, you see that EVERYONE is having a blast. I cannot tell you how fun it is to watch a dad and his son and his sons friends go to a show and the kids are marking out for everything. They don't just cheer Cena BTW, they're into each match. They just aren't as loud because they aren't as big. Plus they don't chant as much (chants are fucking annoying sometimes, it's the worst part of ROH). The kids generally just shout stuff like "watch out he's behind you" or "yea, hit him" or "you suck Christian". I sat next to a family that had about 7 kids with them. They all sang every single word to Orton's theme. They're not as loud, but they're into it.

I wish I could have taken a picture of an image I saw at the house show. Before it started I was getting a drink, in front of me was a dad in jean shorts, boots, the SCSA shirt and a stone cold hat, his son was wearing jean shorts, sneakers, a Cena shirt, and a Cena hat. It was beautiful.

That's what you get at today's WWE shows. They're not as loud as the wife beating, welfare sucking, drunk attitude era white trash fans that are the ones who really gave wrestling a bad name. However, they have fun at shows and are as loud as any crowds in the non tude-era days.

i am not referring to the 'jerry springer' atmosphere of anything goes.
even when there was not blood and titties, the crowds, on average, were way hotter than today. even in the kid friendly 86-91 days.
wwe and wcw didnt need those things to make the crowd hot in the attitude era.
it was just a part of the show.
there is an episode of raw from 2000 that i was referred to and the main event was the rock, too cool, and rikishi vs. dx and the radicals.
look it up on youtube the crowd was absolutely bonkers for the whole match, for ALL of the participants, (even too freaking cool) not just rocky.
watch jericho vs. raven from halloween havoc 1998.
a curtain jerking match and the crowd was more into it than anything you see today, except the mitb match.
look at the crowd reactions for jake the snake and macho man in the 80s.
what i mean is the crowds were EMOTIONALLY INVESTED IN THE WHOLE SHOW, not just portions of it like today, and i dont think the blood and sex had as much to do with it as people give it credit for, as the examples i listed above had none of that.
those kind of crowds add so much to the product in general, and wrestling would be better on the whole and draw more fans in if someone was casually watching raw and saw crowds eating out of every superstars hand for every move and word.

 

[tonykegger]

look at cm punk: love the guy. has done so much for wwe in the last few years, let alone the last couple months. this storyline is the best in years.
HOWEVER, (i might get blasted for saying this but do the research),
guys like rikishi, kane, and rvd were getting louder pops on a WEEKLY basis ten years ago than punk gets today, and they were technically the MID-CARDERS!!!!!!! go back and watch raw tonight. his pops were great, but nothing on the scale of back then. and he is the hottest thing going right now. (yes i know he blew the roof off in chicago but that was his hometown).

But Chicago also gives loud cheers to those who earn it like Orton at NOC 2010 and The Rock at the go-home RAW before WM. Punk EARNED those cheers from Chicago...they were louder than the cheers he got when he appeared in Chicago in late March.

 

[This Is My Name Thank You]

i am not referring to the 'jerry springer' atmosphere of anything goes.
even when there was not blood and titties, the crowds, on average, were way hotter than today. even in the kid friendly 86-91 days.
wwe and wcw didnt need those things to make the crowd hot in the attitude era.
it was just a part of the show.
there is an episode of raw from 2000 that i was referred to and the main event was the rock, too cool, and rikishi vs. dx and the radicals.
look it up on youtube the crowd was absolutely bonkers for the whole match, for ALL of the participants, (even too freaking cool) not just rocky.
watch jericho vs. raven from halloween havoc 1998.
a curtain jerking match and the crowd was more into it than anything you see today, except the mitb match.
look at the crowd reactions for jake the snake and macho man in the 80s.
what i mean is the crowds were EMOTIONALLY INVESTED IN THE WHOLE SHOW, not just portions of it like today, and i dont think the blood and sex had as much to do with it as people give it credit for, as the examples i listed above had none of that.
those kind of crowds add so much to the product in general, and wrestling would be better on the whole and draw more fans in if someone was casually watching raw and saw crowds eating out of every superstars hand for every move and word.

I get what you are saying but remeber that the WWE is trying to build up stars at this time. Rikish, Rock, Too Cool and others drew hot crowds because they were well known at their times. They been in the bis for years and were over with the crowd very well. The WWE only has a few real Stars over with the crowd. Cena, Orton, Punk, Miz, an ADR. Those are really the guys who get pops the most. They need more then 2 years to become what Austin and Rock were. Then when mid carders get a charcter and they work it real well and become less bland then eventually Hot Crowds will be a normal thing again. Lack of star power is effecting crowds. But when I watch Raw for the most part the crowd is always loud and crazy.

 

[K-Fizz]

I cried a little inside when last night's crowd in Tulsa didn't pop for the nWo music. Plain and simple - the late 90's fans that packed the Superdome and Georgia Dome for a Monday Nitro are gone. Some have become so jaded with the current product that they've either gone to watching ROH/TNA or they have just quit watching.

I'll admit - there was a two year stretch that I just simply couldn't take every PPV being Cena-Orton-Batista-Trip. So I quit watching. Now that they've started pulling some newer guys up (Miz, Punk), I've come back. That crowd in Chicago for MitB was ON FIRE, but it all seems to have died down again and the only major pop for the night is when Cena comes out and the mommies and kiddies scream at that ridiculously high octave of a scream.

And I marked in my living room for the black and white music. Wrestling is better off with that legendary & original music.

 

[ABMorales787]

Try not taping two shows before the main one. Do people honestly expect the crowd to be fully pumped for Raw after sitting through NXT and half of Superstars? Not to mention dark matches. Crowds aren't dead from boredom. It's exhaustion. Whether it's from the previous shows or just plain ol' waiting. People lose interest and sometimes, there's just no getting it back.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I think its more of a city-by-city thing. Some cities aren't as hype as others. You can bet on loud reactions in NY, Philly, Chicago, Atlanta. That crowd on Raw was just terrible. You had Miz versus CM Punk in a good TV match, and they sat on their hands the whole time.

But to answer the question, I guess creative could write towards the specific city that they are in at the time, while pushing their storylines & characters through said city. For example, Tulsa was mainly a face-friendly city, so it was smart to put Sheamus winning in the main event with Cena to push the face that he's a face. But its probably not the best place to give the anti-hero "tweener" Punk 3-4 segments. You write for the city, you get more excitement.

They sat on their hands because Miz and Punk appeal to the same part of the audience. Smarks like both guys in general but the general audience sees Miz as a heel and is unsure of Punk. It's not the crowd's fault that it was a bad booking idea and that Punk's scope of interest is slim.

I agree with the part about writing to the city a little bit. I think it works and I think they do that to some extent but don't want to go overboard and sacrifice the enjoyment of your larger TV audience.

I REALLY don't get how people think that modern crowds aren't as loud as 1985-1996 and 2003-present. They are. Seriously, stop going off your memory and go back and watch. I've been watching more old school stuff, right now trying to get through Raw 1993 (fucking terrible), the crowds today are fine. You guys are just paranoid.

 

[AttitudeEra]

I didn't see any thread regarding this posted, so if it already has then my bad.

The title speaks for itself, whether it's a face or a heel why doesn't the wrestlers get the type of reaction that they did in the late 90's and early 200's. Now I know wrestlings popularity is no where near what it was back then but the last I checked at least at RAW the areans are just as full as ever. So for the people that are in attendance I can't understand why they aren't as in to a wrestler or hate a wrestler just as much.

I mean as much as I dispise Cena he is the number 1 guy in the company but his pops are 1/4 of what somebody like Jericho got back in the day. For example, I just rewatched Jericho beat HHH for the title on Raw in 2000 and the crowd exploaded I mean I can only name a handful of times when there was a pop that outshined that. I believe Austin, Goldberg and Rocky were the ones to top that. Anyway my point is why is the noise level so bad these days? I still watch RAW every week but the lack of crowd reaction even turns me off sometimes. Sure Cena gets a lot of reaction but im sorry it just plain sucks compared to the old days.

So my question to the board is why do you guys think the pops and heat are no where near what they used to be, thanks.

 

[Justin Satiable]

I think it's due to the age of the members of the audience. Physically and mentally. Most of the kids are there to see their favourites, and will only really cheer for them. Ontop of that, their voices are going to project the way an adult male's could. When CM Punk beat Cena for the WWE Title, the reaction was incredible and almost drowned out Punk's (usually very loud) entrance music. There just seemed to be a larger amount of adult males in the crowd that night.

I don't think it's anything to do with the wrestlers, just who wrestling is presently aimed at. Though I do agree, it ruins the show a little when the crowd is dead.

 

[thesubverse]

For older fans, their pops went directly into their cell phones (which everyone has now, but not everyone did ten years ago) and cynicism and know-it-allism. You can hear other people in the crowd talk about how it'd be better with their ideas and how everything's just going to be messed up anyway at every show nowadays, no matter what's actually happening.

 

[Davieboy2009]

Not only that, but it also depends on the city they are at. Seriously, some cities have a great wrestling crowed (Anywhere in Canada, Boston, New York, Chicago, Philly, etc...) and some places are just dead silence or too casual of fans to even care whats going on really as seen on some instances of Raw the past few weeks.

 

[TNAmark]

Because while the arena's are full, they are full of WWE Zombies, those who patron the WWE by rote. They're trained seals. It's not genuine enthusiasm for the product that draws them, they watch Raw, order PPV's and attend live events because it's what they've always done and what they will always do. It's why Raw has been averaging the exact same rating for 9 years, they continue to support the company regardless of the product being offered.

 

[MrAdam87]

The honest truth is they need to start feeding there arena fans with Beer again,because in the simpler times of the 80's and 90's consumption of beer at a venue was as normal as using the public toilets there too. This would lead to louder and as you say 'Hotter' crowds.
And before any Nannas jump on it and say' but think of the children!'
What bout the ball games? Plenty of Beer consumption there as well as kids who aren't damaged by seeing it.

 

[mrpops]

They stopped serving beer at their events?!!?! WTF?! When did this happen? Your ALWAYS supposed to have alcohol at any entertainment event regardless if its sports/pro wrestling or concerts etc. It makes the event insanely better because the crowds get way more into it.

This explains alot of the non excitement nowadays. And the reason they get loud reactions from canadians is because they rarely come here(canada) and we canadians are smart enough to get drunk before we go to the arenas! *waves canadian flag*.