How I Would Have Done the HHH / Orton Match

[IrishCanadian25]

Ok, so by now, the cynical, smarky fans that you all are have lambasted the WWE and Wrestlemania 25 for poor booking, missed spots, and wasted opportunities. Being the elitest pro wrestling fan that I am, I try to avoid focusing in on every negative, and instead enjoy the product for what it is.

That in mind, I feel I have a MUCH better way to finish the HHH / Orton match, and I'd like your thoughts.

Let's keep the following goals in mind:


1. We want to keep Triple H strong, and keep him face.

2. We want to keep Orton strong, and keep him heel.

3. We want to advance a storyline that has been built for so long.

4. We want the fans to feel satisfied, or at least, interested.


My ending would be a roll of the dice, but here goes:

Everything in the match - before and during - up until the ref bump, remains in tact. I felt they worked an excellent, methodical, psychological match up until the ref bump.

On a few occassions, the ref had to warn Triple H about potentially getting DQ'ed. Well, with my ending, we make that happen.

Triple H grabs the sledgehammer and throws it in the ring. The ref warns him not to do it. Triple H hits the pedigree, and looks down at Orton. With Lawler and Ross yelling "pin him, champ!" Triple H turns to the ref, then to the hammer, then to Orton.

He stands up, refusing to pin his fallen foe, who is finally starting to stir. Stephanie runs to ringside, with a quizzical look on her face as to why her husband isn't defeating the offending leader of Legacy. As Triple H looks at his wife, all of the hurt, pain, and rage that Orton has caused his family resonates.

So, Triple H picks up the hammer, as the ref tries to stop him. He seems conflicted, with half the crowd yelling "HIT HIM!" and the other half saying "NO! NO!" Finally, after one final look at Stephanie, HHH belts Orton with the hammer. The ref calls for the bell.

What follows is a 10-minute beat down of Orton by HHH, including a run in by legacy which is thwarted by the McMahons. As Wrestlemania goes off the air, Triple H stands at the top of the ramp, title-less, with Steph, Vince, and Shane at his side. He smiles at Orton, who is bloody in the ring, the WWE Title draped over his limp body.

The next night on RAW, Triple H comes out and cuts a promo about having to "make a choice." He says that as much as the WWE Title means to him, his family and his pride mean more, and to surrender the title due to a DQ for the pleasure of annihilating Orton was a choice he'd make again.

"Orton, every time you look at that WWE Title belt, remember that the only reason you have it is because I made that possible. You didn't WIN that title, I handed it to you. You aren't a champion. You're not even a survivor. Every time you look in the mirror, I want the scars on your head to remind you of the moment I hit you in the head with my sledgehammer. And every time you defend that championship you never won, desparate to prove yourself to the world and to yourself, I want you to taste the irony of the fact that you re-gained the WWE Title at Wrestlemania, and you were not even conscious enough to enjoy it. That you did not WALK out of Wrestlemania a champion, you were wheeled out on a stretcher as a man with a big gold belt!"

This keeps the Orton / HHH storyline going, makes Orton flip out for not "beating" HHH and resenting the WWE Title, and keeps HHH a face because people respect the fact that he's much like all of us - he'd risk personal sacrifice to defend his family and his name, and is such a brutal manner.

Tell me this isn't epic.

 

[TwistofRKO]

Well, hard to do any worse, lol.

In seriosusness, I like that concept. They both go over, you will gain a clear routing interest, it adds more fuel to the fire and gives us a chance to see a rivalry that goes through Wrestlemania.

Best part is keeping the whole thing alive, making them hate each other more, throwing everything else away just to kill each other.

 

[DhA]

It's actually pretty good and what I kinda of hoped would happen, but at the same time I can't have seen them ending the match in a DQ as it's the main event and people would feel just as cheated as they do now.

 

[OIL]

That is actually quite epic.

One thing though. They couldn't do another DQ finish in a big match. It happens a lot, and at WM you really do want one clear winner. But I do like your ideas, they're brilliant. It furthers the fued, without making anyone look weak. Well, Orton could get fucked over here but it's better than him going home with nothing.

 

[D-Man]

As much as I enjoy this storyline pitch, I have a feeling that there's a much bigger picture that we have yet to see. Even though it would make for some decent drama, if HHH drops the belt to Orton via DQ and established his dedication to his family instead of the WWE title, then what would happen? First of all, it would scar his character a bit. I mean, HHH is known for being a guy that would stop at nothing for the WWE title. If your storyline became a reality, where would we go from here? HHH would chase the title all over again, even though the audience now knows that it's not the most important thing to him anymore? Would we just end the feud? Another PPV based on nothing but vengeance wouldn't sell as many tickets as a PPV based on going after the WWE championship. According to you, Orton should be chasing HHH to challenge HHH for HIS OWN title?? To me, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

A heel in wrestling has one goal and one goal only... to be world champion. If HHH hands it to him on a silver platter, as far as I'm concerned, HHH just cut his nose despite his face (no pun intended LOL) and Orton would get what he wanted. In order for your storyline pitch to work, Orton's main focus in this feud would have to be personal and not for the title. He admitted last week on Raw that his "IED" was "BS" and he knew what he was doing the whole time. This proves that his goal from day one was to recapture the WWE championship.

As much as I see a very good storyline pitch, I have to disagree with it. I don't think we've seen the last of this feud. Whether we use your storyline or the current one (even though it's a bit predictable, but I think there's going to be more to it), I'm sure it will still cultimate with a HITC matchup somewhere down the road. But, I think it needs to be done in a way that doesn't leave the audience scratching their heads all the way through. Remember, their target audience as of late is children... not adults like you and me. When it comes to storylines, simple is better and will prove to be more effective.

 

[Rated TKE]

Thats a really good ending, but for mania it wouldnt fit. What i would of done, u have the ref bump. steph comes down as hhh had the hammer, she says she wants to do it. she then turns to hhh and grins, slaps him. hands orton the hammer, orton uses it on hhh. rko... 1...2...3... new wwe champ. and stpeh turns her back on hhh and joins legacy. hey maybe at backlash.

 

[D-Man]

Thats a really good ending, but for mania it wouldnt fit. What i would of done, u have the ref bump. steph comes down as hhh had the hammer, she says she wants to do it. she then turns to hhh and grins, slaps him. hands orton the hammer, orton uses it on hhh. rko... 1...2...3... new wwe champ. and stpeh turns her back on hhh and joins legacy. hey maybe at backlash.

I can't agree with this...

Just think about it, everyone now knows HHH and Steph are REALLY married. There is no amount of kayfabe that you could use to make anyone believe that she'd turn on HHH now. Everyone would be too busy remembering what is real compared to a story that they thought up. At least that's where MY mind would be at...

 

[Uncle Sam]

As much as I enjoy this storyline pitch, I have a feeling that there's a much bigger picture that we have yet to see.

WrestleMania isn't about the big picture though, is it? It's meant to be the peak of everyone's feuds, even if they don't end there. Thanks to Backlash, they normally don't. It's about that "if WWE shut down forever tonight, I'd be satisfied" feeling. It's not about "well, that was shit... let's hope they top it next month". It's the show of the year.

I was sitting there last night, watching this match. Despite realising that it was the first time I had ever watched a Triple H/Randy Orton match, I was completely bored. I was trying to think of ways they might save it. Surely they'll have an interesting ending, I thought. Alas, no.

Your idea, IC, was one that sprung to mind. There was also the idea of Punk cashing in his briefcase, of course. As Triple H starting his "arghh"s and "eurgh"s, followed by fireworks and a highlight package, my heart sunk to somewhere in the region of my left testicle.

Thanks to Mick Foley for the imagery.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

First of all, it would scar his character a bit. I mean, HHH is known for being a guy that would stop at nothing for the WWE title. If your storyline became a reality, where would we go from here?.

He earned the "anything for the title" reputation as a heel during his first 3 or 4 title reigns. Now, he's a face and has won 11 titles. Does a guy who risked jail time to avenge his family AND who has double-digit title reigns really need to put all of that aisde and focus solely on the title?

And the question as to where we go from here, I answer below.

According to you, Orton should be chasing HHH to challenge HHH for HIS OWN title?? To me, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.?.

Quite the contrary, my friend, it makes ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD. How awesome is that? The champion is chasing the challenger to justify his own title reign. Why not? You and I watched the event together last night, D-Man, and you heard me comment on how the HBK / Undertaker match pulled SO MANY spots from Rocky II. Well, when Apollo Creed is having his title questioned by fans, he goads Rocky back into the ring to prove that what happened the first time was an abhorration. That would work AWESOME here - Orton trying to get HHH to use his rematch clause, while Triple H toys with him.

I mean, this would solidify the "Cerebral Assassin" monicre, no?

And to answer the second question, you'd set up a six-man tag main event at Backlash - Triple H, Shane, and Vince vs Legacy. Only if Orton wins, Triple H HAS to wrestle Orton for the title again. I'm tingling.

A heel in wrestling has one goal and one goal only... to be world champion.

No, a heel's goal is to make the fans hate him, title or no. HHH's win last night will make Orton a sympathetic figure, detracting from his heel heat. Him being WWE Champion and carrying around the belt without having beaten HHH for it is instant heel heat, especially when fans start chanting "Pa-per Champ-ion!"

If HHH hands it to him on a silver platter, as far as I'm concerned, HHH just cut his nose despite his face (no pun intended LOL) and Orton would get what he wanted.

A silver platter? This isn't the Fingerpoke of Doom, it's a brutal beat down. And it taints the title reign for Orton, who wanted to destroy Triple H and prove that he's better than his former mentor. It's the exact OPPOSITE of what Orton wanted. Trying to get Triple H to get DQ'ed, only to have Triple H turn the tables and actually do it, would invoke the "be careful what you wish for" cliche perfectly.

In order for your storyline pitch to work, Orton's main focus in this feud would have to be personal and not for the title. He admitted last week on Raw that his "IED" was "BS" and he knew what he was doing the whole time. This proves that his goal from day one was to recapture the WWE championship.

No, it proves that his goal this whole time was to destroy Triple H. If HHH walked out of Wrestlemania, maybe not the champ, but unbeaten by his bloodied foe, it'd be quite the other way around, no?

 

[TwistofRKO]

This feud would fit Orton ideally, and I respectfully disagree with your notion, D-man, that (Orton's) primary goal is to win the title. Orton's entire career is highlighted by titles, but he's always tried to have the last word so to speak. He doesn't always care for victories, he even get's DQ'd intentionally to satisfy his pride, i.e. Batista getting punted. Orton is all about making a statement and pride. I think the idea here, which obviously won't happen, would have fit Orton perfectly, maybe even giving us a great rivalry that eventually was completely absent of the belt (one PPV, then HHH gets it back, maybe Hunter will sign to that) and was just about trying to end each other's careers.

 

[Uncle Sam]

The more IC25 comments on this, the more I'm sold on it. Orton, heelish as he is, would just be heartbroken having to carry around that soulless husk of a belt which he won by being decimated. Watching his total indifference to having the title would entertain the hell out of me. I know he could sell it really well.

I think we might have stumbled upon something both original and a good idea. Something incredibly rare in wrestling. Shame it never happened and probably never will.

 

[D-Man]

He earned the "anything for the title" reputation as a heel during his first 3 or 4 title reigns. Now, he's a face and has won 11 titles. Does a guy who risked jail time to avenge his family AND who has double-digit title reigns really need to put all of that aside and focus solely on the title?

Agreed, but I still feel that whether he snapped (and beat Orton senseless only to LOSE the title) or just plain BEAT Orton like he did last night (still using his trusty sledgehammer to Orton's skull), the match had the same ending that you're talking about... yours being a lot more extended and violent. I don't think that would appeal to a PG audience... especially when it teaches children to ignore goals and focus on violence to solve problems.

Quite the contrary, my friend, it makes ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD. How awesome is that? The champion is chasing the challenger to justify his own title reign. Why not? You and I watched the event together last night, D-Man, and you heard me comment on how the HBK / Undertaker match pulled SO MANY spots from Rocky II. Well, when Apollo Creed is having his title questioned by fans, he goads Rocky back into the ring to prove that what happened the first time was an abhorration. That would work AWESOME here - Orton trying to get HHH to use his rematch clause, while Triple H toys with him.

I mean, this would solidify the "Cerebral Assassin" monicre, no?

Another good point and comparison. But I still think that the WWE had a method to their madness and there is a lot more that we can expect from this feud with it's current storyline.

And to answer the second question, you'd set up a six-man tag main event at Backlash - Triple H, Shane, and Vince vs Legacy. Only if Orton wins, Triple H HAS to wrestle Orton for the title again. I'm tingling.

I'm not. I cringe every time a pay per view's main event is a triple threat, tag team, or other gimmick match that doesn't determine who comes out with a world title. I feel those kinds of PPV's cheat our fans.

No, a heel's goal is to make the fans hate him, title or no.

In a business sense and from the point of view of the WWE, a heel has to be hated by the fans. But if we suspend disbelief for the "character" and we view Randy Orton as a person, just like any other heel in the title hunt, all they care about is being WWE or World Heavyweight Champion.

A silver platter? This isn't the Fingerpoke of Doom, it's a brutal beat down. And it taints the title reign for Orton, who wanted to destroy Triple H and prove that he's better than his former mentor. It's the exact OPPOSITE of what Orton wanted.

Ok, maybe my "silver platter" was a little too exaggerative. But by taking the title from HHH, wouldn't that be enough reason for him to think he's "better" than HHH? Heels are weasels... they look for any reason to justify a win or a loss from a completely selfish perspective. How many heels in the past have won title matches by blatently cheating and then come on Raw the next night gloating about their death-defying feat? I don't think it would make sense for Orton to get bitter after WINNING the title.

Trying to get Triple H to get DQ'ed, only to have Triple H turn the tables and actually do it, would invoke the "be careful what you wish for" cliche perfectly.

(hand rubbing my chin) I have to admit, that IS an interesting thought... but I still think the wrestling audience needs storylines that are more watered down.

No, it proves that his goal this whole time was to destroy Triple H. If HHH walked out of Wrestlemania, maybe not the champ, but unbeaten by his bloodied foe, it'd be quite the other way around, no?

But his goal WASN'T to destroy HHH... it was to win the title.


Listen, I really like the storyline pitch and I don't think it's bad. I just think that what happened last night is opening a lot of doors to where this story will unravel, while your storyline is going in one direction, full speed ahead. While it's very intelligent and intriguing, I don't see it selling tickets.

Is it safe to say that we'll agree to disagree, my friend??

 

[klunderbunker]

I think I like this. The one aspect I'm not sold on and it's very minor, is that if you listened when HHH got the hammer, he got a heel reaction. If you want to keep HHH face it could be tricky, but that could be a moot point.

Actually, I do like that idea. As you said it keeps HHH looking strong (since obviously he can never look weak) and it makes Orton all the more psychotic in his efforts to beat HHH once and for all. He would start to call on Legacy more, leading to a series of rematches with him as the paper champion that somehow barely keeps the title. Very well done boss.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Agreed, but I still feel that whether he snapped (and beat Orton senseless only to LOSE the title) or just plain BEAT Orton like he did last night (still using his trusty sledgehammer to Orton's skull), the match had the same ending that you're talking about... yours being a lot more extended and violent. I don't think that would appeal to a PG audience... especially when it teaches children to ignore goals and focus on violence to solve problems.

I see. So the lesson to kids should be to cast aside your family and your pride for the sake of work, especially when your reputation is safe and your financial future secure. Yes.

Anyone reading this who is between the age of 15 and 23 (which is many of you) please heed the words of the D-Man. Your family comes second. Your career comes first. No exceptions. If someone dishonors your family, your wife, and your name, you first priority should be to make that big sale at work.

Another good point and comparison. But I still think that the WWE had a method to their madness and there is a lot more that we can expect from this feud with it's current storyline.

That argument didn't keep the press of off George W. Bush during the Iraq War. Blind trust is all well and good, but how many times have you felt let down?

I'm not. I cringe every time a pay per view's main event is a triple threat, tag team, or other gimmick match that doesn't determine who comes out with a world title. I feel those kinds of PPV's cheat our fans.

And last night's Main Event to Wrestlemania didn't? And besides, this is Backlash, not SummerSlam. What would be wrong with a strong 6-man tag involving Triple H, his father-in-law, and his brother-in-law vs the three main antagonists in the WWE right now.

In a business sense and from the point of view of the WWE, a heel has to be hated by the fans. But if we suspend disbelief for the "character" and we view Randy Orton as a person, just like any other heel in the title hunt, all they care about is being WWE or World Heavyweight Champion.

If you want to view competitors as "just like any other, all they care about is the title," then please go watch UFC. We don't watch WWE for the championship hunt alone, we watch for the characters and the stories they tell. And if you need an illustration of that, look at the HBK / Taker match last night. No title considerations there.

Ok, maybe my "silver platter" was a little too exaggerative. But by taking the title from HHH, wouldn't that be enough reason for him to think he's "better" than HHH? Heels are weasels... they look for any reason to justify a win or a loss from a completely selfish perspective. How many heels in the past have won title matches by blatently cheating and then come on Raw the next night gloating about their death-defying feat? I don't think it would make sense for Orton to get bitter after WINNING the title.

He wouldn't WIN the title, that's the basis of the idea. He'd gain the title, but in the process he'd fail at his goal. Again, I invoke Apollo Creed in Rocky 2. "Man I WON but I didn't beat him!" He'd BEG Triple H to challenge him, only this time, Triple H would make it on HIS terms - HIAC, Street Fight, etc. THEN you get the clean ending and / or McMahon swerve.

(hand rubbing my chin) I have to admit, that IS an interesting thought... but I still think the wrestling audience needs storylines that are more watered down.

IC25 = Insulted by that.

But his goal WASN'T to destroy HHH... it was to win the title.

Did you watch RAW last week? He said, in no uncertain terms, that his goal was to ruin HHH's life. The title, Orton felt, was what made Triple H tick, and by taking that, he'd take HHH's heart. But if HHH lays the belt down to Orton, it shows him that HHH has more pressing priorities that the title, rendering that goal of Orton's unattainable. Then he begins to realize, he has to BEAT Triple H to exorcise his demons.

Listen, I really like the storyline pitch and I don't think it's bad. I just think that what happened last night is opening a lot of doors to where this story will unravel, while your storyline is going in one direction, full speed ahead. While it's very intelligent and intriguing, I don't see it selling tickets.

Is it safe to say that we'll agree to disagree, my friend??

HAHAHAHA, Never. Do I sense a hint of fear?

 

[D-Man]

Another well-written post. But, just because I'm not as gifted when it comes to writing or as articulate as you in these threads doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I see. So the lesson to kids should be to cast aside your family and your pride for the sake of work, especially when your reputation is safe and your financial future secure. Yes.

Anyone reading this who is between the age of 15 and 23 (which is many of you) please heed the words of the D-Man. Your family comes second. Your career comes first. No exceptions. If someone dishonors your family, your wife, and your name, you first priority should be to make that big sale at work.

Ugh... I never said that WWE is promoting that your family come second and career come first. I was just saying that in lieu of the deaths, drugs, and other negative garbage in the media, the WWE should be taking focus off of violence. Please don't put words in my mouth.

That argument didn't keep the press of off George W. Bush during the Iraq War. Blind trust is all well and good, but how many times have you felt let down?

Politics?? Are you serious?? I'll put up the white flag now because I know NOTHING about the subject...

And last night's Main Event to Wrestlemania didn't? And besides, this is Backlash, not SummerSlam. What would be wrong with a strong 6-man tag involving Triple H, his father-in-law, and his brother-in-law vs the three main antagonists in the WWE right now.

Remember, YOU felt cheated last night but I didn't. That's all a matter of perspective, my friend. And whether it be Backlash, Wrestlemania, Summerslam, or No Way Out, I feel cheated when I don't see the main event as a title match in my opinion (which I'm entitled to).

If you want to view competitors as "just like any other, all they care about is the title," then please go watch UFC.

Apples and oranges. I NEVER compare the WWE to UFC. They are completely different sports. As a matter of fact, only ONE of them is a sport, while one is a (somewhat) entertaining television show.

We don't watch WWE for the championship hunt alone, we watch for the characters and the stories they tell.

Personally, I watch for both. And if you could mix them both into one match, I'm a happy camper.

And if you need an illustration of that, look at the HBK / Taker match last night. No title considerations there.

But that wasn't the "main event." It was a damn good match... maybe one of the best in WM history, but it was three matches from the end of the PPV (the way it should have been booked). Even Flair told Vince NOT to book his send-off match last on the PPV because the WWE title should always take the focus and be the most important match on the card.

He wouldn't WIN the title, that's the basis of the idea. He'd gain the title, but in the process he'd fail at his goal. Again, I invoke Apollo Creed in Rocky 2. "Man I WON but I didn't beat him!" He'd BEG Triple H to challenge him, only this time, Triple H would make it on HIS terms - HIAC, Street Fight, etc. THEN you get the clean ending and / or McMahon swerve.

Once again, I get it. It's a good idea. I never said it wasn't. But, I'm very different than most of my fellow IWC fans... I trust and put my faith in the WWE writing team. I always believe their scenerio is better. So sue me.

IC25 = Insulted by that.

My bad. But I still love you.

HAHAHAHA, Never. Do I sense a hint of fear?

How dare you!! I fear no one!!

 

[Jersey Wannabe]

This keeps the Orton / HHH storyline going, makes Orton flip out for not "beating" HHH and resenting the WWE Title, .QUOTE]

I think that your idea is brilliant except for the part of Orton resenting the title because of the way he won it.
Ortons character to me at least has been the HHH of 99-01.
He wants the belt and he will take it any way he can get it.

 

[Sparky]

I like this idea Irish, but If its ok I just want to add a different ending. well, the only thing I would add, only to make it realistic, because Face it, HHH wouldn't be willing to give up the title so soon. So Orton wins it by DQ as you said, but on Raw the next day, I would have Vince come out, and say that even though, Orton won due to the Clause Vickie invoked, Vince don't see it that way. He then strips the title off of Orton, and then has a battle royal or something with the whole roster (this bit could be a bit different its just the first thing that comes to mind.) HHH wins after a beat down by legacy, (with Batistas help some how, Face it You could see it happening.) and he gets it back, until Orton is due to get it. This way, HHH still manages to remain Face, Fans grow some sympathy for Orton, making them Want him to win the title again, and allows Vince to travel down the heel road if thats what is needed.

Sorry if someone else suggested this, But I did promise you I would reply.

 

[Rusty]

Now, I haven't watched the match yet but I probably will later on in the week. However, I did read various reports of it as well as reviews from some posters on here. So I know most of the details. And IC, this is a great idea. It's very fresh and original. I love the fact that the show ends with the babyface smiling, but Randy Orton winning (if you could say that) the WWE Championship. However, I think there are some issues about it that I need to address.

First off, has a Wrestlemania main event ever ended in diswauli... opps I mean disqualification. If so, it hasn't happened in over 10 years. Put it this way IC, Wrestlemania is the biggest show of the year. It's where feuds either start or finish for good. One thing that has always remained the same is that the two World Title matches end cleanly. It makes it seem like either the new champion or the retaining champion barely walks out with the Title intact and it gives a big feel to the match. Why build up a match for over 2 months only to make it end in DQ? If I paid for Wrestlemania and saw the main event end like that, I would want a refund. You basically pay to see clean finishes, and I'm totally against disqualifications on any pay per view, except for a few situations where it is almost needed.

Also, wouldn't it be stupid if they had a rematch at Backlash after this scenario occurred? I mean, they build up this match for months, very good too, only for it to end in disqualification when you pay about $50 for it, just so you can buy the next pay per view and see this match for the 101st time. Most people buy Wrestlemania to see a champion walk out after winning cleanly. To see their favourite win the match decisively. It's what separates Mania from the other pay per views. You are guaranteed either Orton or HHH is walking out with the Title after winning cleanly.

Plus, wouldn't it be silly of Triple H to attack Orton with the hammer before pinning him. Why not pin him cleanly, THEN attack him with weapons. That way, you retain your title as well as getting revenge. I think the better option would be for Triple H to win this match cleanly, and beatdown Orton with a sledgehammer after the match. Then the next night on Raw have Hunter hand Orton the Title saying that he got his revenge and satisfaction, and that this title reminds him of Randy Orton attacking his wife so he no longer wants to hold it. That way, the feud ends, the heel gets more heat, both superstars go their separate ways, Triple H gets his revenge and most importantly, the young gun walks out of the feud as WWE Champion. Because let's face it, nobody wants to see these two compete against each other again for a very long time.

With that in mind, your idea IS epic, man. It's a lot better than the clusterfuck of an ending that actually occurred at Wrestlemania. It's just ending a Wrestlemania main event in DQ doesn't keep many people satisfied. However, if it wasn't the final match of the card, I think it would work very well. But the ending to Wrestlemania should always be a clean and a decisive victory.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Hey Rusty, great reponse. Thanks for the kind words, as well as the thought provoking constructive criticism.

So, here are some of my responses.

1. Wrestlemania 8 ended in a botched DQ, but a DQ nonetheless. Hogan vs Sid. This is because Sid was expected to stick around, the Hogan was expected to leave, so to have Hogan go over Sid clean would do damage to the WWE. So, they had Sid lose by DQ, leaving the face to win. When Papa Shango missed his run-in, the whole thing became a cluster. When Warrior returned, it got cool again.

Also, you must remember that a clean finish was acheived in the WWF Title match earlier that night between Flair and Savage, so the fans got a clean title match, and a DQ main event. Similarly, the Triple-Threat for the WHC between Cena, Show, and Edge ended clean - as did Taker / HBK - so why would one DQ be such a bad thing?

2. We're not ending WM25 in "just a DQ." We're ending it in a title change, and a brutal beat down. It's like a more climactic version of the ending of Rock / Austin 2 at Wrestlemania 17.

3. People hit me with the "Wrestlemania is about finality" line every year, and every year it's not true. Look at Backlash. It's all rematches from Wrestlemania usually. Already we've got Edge vs Cena for the WHC, and The McMahons vs Legacy, which would have just as easily been accomplished with my DQ Title Change, only with Orton demanding that if Legacy won, Triple H had to face him again at the next PPV.

Let there be a banquet in my honor.

 

[Rusty]

Hey Rusty, great reponse. Thanks for the kind words, as well as the thought provoking constructive criticism.

No problem

So, here are some of my responses.

1. Wrestlemania 8 ended in a botched DQ, but a DQ nonetheless. Hogan vs Sid. This is because Sid was expected to stick around, the Hogan was expected to leave, so to have Hogan go over Sid clean would do damage to the WWE. So, they had Sid lose by DQ, leaving the face to win. When Papa Shango missed his run-in, the whole thing became a cluster. When Warrior returned, it got cool again.

I haven't seen this match, but from what you just told me about it, it wasn't a very good way to end the match. Why not just have Sid go over Hogan cleanly? Even if it was just by a rollup or something. The end of Wrestlemania is usually a "feel good" moment. And I think a match ending in disqualification takes that away a little.

Also, you must remember that a clean finish was acheived in the WWF Title match earlier that night between Flair and Savage, so the fans got a clean title match, and a DQ main event. Similarly, the Triple-Threat for the WHC between Cena, Show, and Edge ended clean - as did Taker / HBK - so why would one DQ be such a bad thing?

Good point. I said that if it wasn't the final match of the show, then I think your idea would work perfectly. And I'm still sticking to my guns when I say that if your idea was planned for the WWE Title match, but the match wasn't the final match on the card, it would definately be a perfect idea. To me, the end of Wrestlemania shouldn't include a match ending in disqualification. What's Orton going to say a few months later? "I main evented Wrestlemania, won by DQ, but I still main evented a Wrestlemania nonetheless and I even won the WWE Championship". My point is that it's just not the same and it takes away from the importance of the event as well as sending the fans home unhappy.

2. We're not ending WM25 in "just a DQ." We're ending it in a title change, and a brutal beat down. It's like a more climactic version of the ending of Rock / Austin 2 at Wrestlemania 17.

If the Title change was announced at Wrestlemania, then things would change a little, for the better. Instead, fans that paid for the event are at home thinking Triple H is still the WWE Champion and that this whole thing was a waste of time. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here.

3. People hit me with the "Wrestlemania is about finality" line every year, and every year it's not true. Look at Backlash. It's all rematches from Wrestlemania usually. Already we've got Edge vs Cena for the WHC, and The McMahons vs Legacy, which would have just as easily been accomplished with my DQ Title Change, only with Orton demanding that if Legacy won, Triple H had to face him again at the next PPV.

Those aren't exact rematches But yes, I do agree to an extent. But the problem with that is that nobody wants to see Orton get his match against Triple H again. Hell, the WWE had to bring back Batista in order to get people interested in the feud again. This feud was built up as a personal one that has been going on for years. It was assumed by many that Wrestlemania XXV would be the end of their long lasting feud. So in this case, Wrestlemania should have been about finality.

In the case of last years Wrestlemania main event with Edge and the Undertaker, it was only the beginning. But Triple H and Randy Orton have faced each other too many times so this really should have been the end of the feud, and I just don't think a disqualification is the right way to continue or end a feud. If the exact same scene happened at Backlash or something instead of WM25, I would have no problem with it.

 

[DC24]

Ok, so by now, the cynical, smarky fans that you all are have lambasted the WWE and Wrestlemania 25 for poor booking, missed spots, and wasted opportunities. Being the elitest pro wrestling fan that I am, I try to avoid focusing in on every negative, and instead enjoy the product for what it is.

That in mind, I feel I have a MUCH better way to finish the HHH / Orton match, and I'd like your thoughts.

Let's keep the following goals in mind:


1. We want to keep Triple H strong, and keep him face.

2. We want to keep Orton strong, and keep him heel.

3. We want to advance a storyline that has been built for so long.

4. We want the fans to feel satisfied, or at least, interested.


My ending would be a roll of the dice, but here goes:

Everything in the match - before and during - up until the ref bump, remains in tact. I felt they worked an excellent, methodical, psychological match up until the ref bump.

On a few occassions, the ref had to warn Triple H about potentially getting DQ'ed. Well, with my ending, we make that happen.

Triple H grabs the sledgehammer and throws it in the ring. The ref warns him not to do it. Triple H hits the pedigree, and looks down at Orton. With Lawler and Ross yelling "pin him, champ!" Triple H turns to the ref, then to the hammer, then to Orton.

He stands up, refusing to pin his fallen foe, who is finally starting to stir. Stephanie runs to ringside, with a quizzical look on her face as to why her husband isn't defeating the offending leader of Legacy. As Triple H looks at his wife, all of the hurt, pain, and rage that Orton has caused his family resonates.

So, Triple H picks up the hammer, as the ref tries to stop him. He seems conflicted, with half the crowd yelling "HIT HIM!" and the other half saying "NO! NO!" Finally, after one final look at Stephanie, HHH belts Orton with the hammer. The ref calls for the bell.

What follows is a 10-minute beat down of Orton by HHH, including a run in by legacy which is thwarted by the McMahons. As Wrestlemania goes off the air, Triple H stands at the top of the ramp, title-less, with Steph, Vince, and Shane at his side. He smiles at Orton, who is bloody in the ring, the WWE Title draped over his limp body.

The next night on RAW, Triple H comes out and cuts a promo about having to "make a choice." He says that as much as the WWE Title means to him, his family and his pride mean more, and to surrender the title due to a DQ for the pleasure of annihilating Orton was a choice he'd make again.

"Orton, every time you look at that WWE Title belt, remember that the only reason you have it is because I made that possible. You didn't WIN that title, I handed it to you. You aren't a champion. You're not even a survivor. Every time you look in the mirror, I want the scars on your head to remind you of the moment I hit you in the head with my sledgehammer. And every time you defend that championship you never won, desparate to prove yourself to the world and to yourself, I want you to taste the irony of the fact that you re-gained the WWE Title at Wrestlemania, and you were not even conscious enough to enjoy it. That you did not WALK out of Wrestlemania a champion, you were wheeled out on a stretcher as a man with a big gold belt!"

This keeps the Orton / HHH storyline going, makes Orton flip out for not "beating" HHH and resenting the WWE Title, and keeps HHH a face because people respect the fact that he's much like all of us - he'd risk personal sacrifice to defend his family and his name, and is such a brutal manner.

Tell me this isn't epic.

Honestly this what I thought would happen and I would depise it because it would make Orton who over the last couple of months as a bad ass heel to a total bitch. They made that happen anyways most of us wanted Orton to win the belt clean but no triple H has to hog the title then we get a TNA match at Backlash.

 

[Muffin Top Merkley]

Scenerio 1) As everyone has stated. Why not have turned either Shane or McMahon heel on HHH. This would continue the feud, continue to make HHH face, keep Orton heel, add additional heat to the Legacy and hopefully gets Legacy out of the rut they seem to be stuck in (aside from Orton)

Scenerio 2: HHH is conflicted as to hit Orton with the sledgehammer or not. Stephanie runs out and reminds HHH of everything Orton has done to his family. She pleads with Hunter to give Orton what he deserves and to hit him. HHH loses the match. Orton is the champ but is still can't get up. Steph thanks HHH over and over....and then says "I'm sorry and does her evil smirk" HHH is confused. "WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? YOU'RE SORRY STEPH?" Legacy comes down and attacks HHH. Steph brings Orton to his feet...and presents him with the title. She now just joined the Legacy.

Scenerio 3) HHH uses the sledgehammer. Gets disqualified. Orton celebrates even though he is a bloody mess. Orton gets announced as the winner due to DQ. Vince McMahon comes out and says Vickie might have made her stipulation, but I'm Vince McMahon DAMN IT!. I have the final say as to what happens in my ring and I say this is a no DQ match! Quick finish with either man winning the title.

 

[E7]

I must say i love this idea. Anything could be better than what they did. Simply put, it wasn't that great of a match and should have gone before HBK-Taker.

You should become a WWE creative member.