How Does Samoa Joe Get Back to the Main Event?

[GrandSword]

First of all I know there are a lot of guys on this forum that will probably jump in here and say he's a fat, lazy loser etc etc. For the sake of the argument please don't or if you do, you are ignored. He definately has his critics but his intial run in TNA was phenomenal.

Samoa Joe in 2005 he was the hottest new talent TNA had. His undefeated streak wasn't some crappy matches and a mnetion of it every five minutes, but was a series of strong style matches he had with the X Diviosn guys and then moving up into the heavyweights with big wins over Steiner and Jarrett and being Sting's tag team partner. His great series with Kurt Angle really made TNA it's own big time star (especially since Angle just came off a big win on the Undertaker, it made Joe look like a real killer and top tier guy in the industry.)

Move forward to today and he is being jobbed out, but it seems that possibly the creative team is building to something. On Impact Joe was looking for the ten points in the BFG series and due to this he lost the match. Then when Kazaraian trashed talked about his losing streak Joe smashed a beer bottle in And hopefully it is to bring Joe back to the main event.

My question is how would you bring back Joe to the main event?

In the Hogan era, is it as simple as getting wins? Is it giving him a particular storyline? Heel or face?

What are your thoughts?

 

[bigandpissed]

Before I start tearing joe apart, I think I should make it clear that Im a fan of joes and I say this only because I care...

I think in order to get back in the main event, He needs to plop his fat ass on a treadmill and act like he gives a shit when he's in the ring.

I think his recent his weight gain is a sign of laziness and it shows in the ring. I know he wasn't exactly dainty before, but he was in good enough shape to really go in the ring. Shit, back in the day he was able to keep up with A.J in fast x division matchs. For the past couple months, he has looked lazy and sloppy in the ring and I think the weight gain is the main cause of that. I didn't mean to be a dick about him being fat, but I honestly think it needed to be said.

As for booking his return to the main event, I think he should disappear for a couple of months (I don't know, maybe he could get kidnapped or something), work his ass off while he's off T.V. to get back in more respectable shape, and then return as a monster heel, starting another winning streak until he reaches the world champion.

 

[rondiesel2005]

i want to comment on bigandpissed about Samoa Joe's weight related. When i firs started watching TNA, i thought Samoa joe was a big guy you know, but then last year to this year, maybe its just me but the guy looks like he been putting a lot of weight lately. Its like he hasn't cut back or try to maintain his weight. He got a match this week on Destination X pay per view, and the fans are expecting him to do a 5 star classic X Division match and am sure some of us are worried about him performing in the pay per view. I know he just looks fat from what we seen on TV, i just think he needs to lose some weight.

As for him going back to the main event. That is kind of tough to do because of the amount of guys they got in the main event roster. Its gonna take him time to go back to the main event spot. What they can do with him is take him off TV for about a month. Let him lose a few pounds first. I remember there was an article on wrestlezone related to his weight when the company was complaining about his weight, am not sure if everybody remembers that. Samoa Joe needs a storyline and somebody who he can work with to build him as a strong main event guy, it just a question of when is he going to be in the main event picture, am not sure if its any time soon

 

[GrandSword]

I was thinking much like how HHH came up to Flair after he lost to Rico, and then created Evolution, that maybe Kurt Angle could do the same with Joe. It was the Kurt and Joe feud that has been the top selling TNA ppvs in the company's history. So I think maybe Kurt giving him a wake up and maybe tagging with him for a month could bring Joe back to his dominant main event ways.

I do also believe he needs to lose some weight, and I think his friend Kazarian said it best by saying he had a "Charlie Brown lookin' head" does highlight the fact that he is carrying more than he should be. But I also do believe that Joe had the potential to be the top guy in the industry at one point before the glass ceiling came crashing down on his head in 2007.

 

[Caitiff]

The simple answer to that question is "Return to Ring of Honor." As long as TNA is being run by the people who currently run TNA, there is no legitimate chance for Samoa Joe to progress past the mid-card again. He simply doesn't have the appearance TNA wants. And, appearance is more important to TNA than ability.

Let's put it this way. TNA wouldn't have booked Dusty Rhodes in the main event in the 1980's. Nor would they have booked Harley Race in the main event. If this sounds familiar to anyone who remembers their old school wrestling, that's because TNA is being run by people who learned to book in the McMahon school, led a rival company based on the McMahon school, and the single biggest example of the McMahon school EVER.

 

[JDavis328]

I agree with most all this but instead of repeating it il give my own little insites and ideas.

First off on just joe from a physical standpoint,I think him looking like hes lacking(or not lacking weight wise you could say) could easily spur from a mix of things. Obviously bad choices. But also stemming from possible a lack of drive. Tna as of late has not done much with him since well his championship run in 07. He became the weird psyco character which didnt go far,then a lashley fued that went no where,then floated around for a bit,then dissapeared,then the recent fued with pope and crimson. Yet I must say comparing joe in MEM to Joe vs Crimson/pope,I think its been a improvement. There needs to be more of one,but there is a slight improvement. Also Joe is not the young agile guy any more. Hes older,had more time in the ring,and probably more beat up. His body probably isnt as strong or agile as it was back in day. Not saying these two are the reasons,because I think we will see joe get in better shape soon but just things that are not helping ether.

As for how to put him on top,I like the Kurt Idea. Yet Im gonna keep it simple. Just have him start tearing up the BFG series. Have him beat the pope,devon,bully ray,rvd,etc then have him win the 4 way and just build him as this no none sense guy thats tearing up anyone put in front of him. Kinda like a new fire and detirmination(mix it with maybe joe getting in better shape) type of deal. I think the BFG is perfect for guys like Joe,AJ,Roode,etc that should be at the top yet they dont have the storyline to get them there. Just have them win the BFG series or do good in it to show they belong at the top.

 

[MWRedskins]

Honestly, i think TNA isnt booking him right and that's part of the problem, while it would be great for him to lose weight, it's not a need. they should let him be the monster that he was when he first came in, i mean when TNA books a guy like Devon to go over Joe, something is odd. I think Samoa Joe can go in the ring, he just needs to be booked better.

 

[BenChiefin]

This is all a story actually to break Joe down to bring him back up. That was the whole point of the Joe / AJ / Daniels segment 2 weeks ago where the two just disregarded Joe.

He basically "lost it mentally" and he needs to regain his focus to win matches.... all while pushing motherfuckers like Crimson.

Remember Daniel Brian being the bottom guy having no points on NXT?

Same thing here with Joe.

 

[NotoriousMEAT]

I love Samoa Joe. He's someone I idolize and is the only person I'm still truly invested in when it comes to TNA. But to be honest, he looks so out of shape. Luckily it hasn't effected his in ring work THAT much as he's able to still hit all his moves and what not, but it just doesn't feel the same. Idk if the passion's gone, or if he needs to be re-inspired.. hell, he could just be more focused on his personal life having a wife, kid, and new born.. who knows.

One thing I think they could do to try and get Joe back up in the main event scene is give him a real angle. Something the people can feed off of and believe. And I think with Joe, it's simple. Just let him be ruthless again. Not just let him, but give him REASON to be ruthless again. 2005-2008 he was on a tear trying to prove himself and earn what he deserved. 2009-2011... floating. I would believe a storyline where Joe was pissed and felt he was being held back by the Hogan/Bischoff regime. That he might have become an after thought or that people forgot what he's capable of. I'd rather see him kill people for that reason then whatever he's done lately. Jumping Crimson in a bar cuz he's undefeated? Having a stare down with Crimson who had a sledgehammer and was mad at Joe for not helping him, but then told Joe that he didn't need his help? Yeah fuck that noise. I want JOE'S GONNA KILL YOU cuz you're standing in the ring where he's trying to win his fuckin strap!

Oh and make him heel. Don't try to tween him like Anderson cuz you'll kill it. Aim to make the people hate him and his actions, and just let us smarks or 10% still love him cuz we will regardless. Don't try to please everyone. The BFG Series could be the perfect platform to do that, cuz he'd literally have to kill all competition to get to where he wanted. Might be a little rushed, but it'd work.

That's all I got right now, just kinda ramblin off the top of my head.

 

[Trot]

am one of those guys that sees Joe for what he realy is, and that is talented, hes a very talented man, hes athletic, fast, and can move, to get Joe back to the top, you need to have Crimson, AJ Styles, and RR in the final 4, and just have Joe crush them, make it an elminination match and have joe tap out RR AJ and leave Crimson and Joe, these 2 can work together, Crimson should still b unbeatin, so after seeing joe tap out 2 people, possiblt two of the best, have joe destroy Crimson, and i dont mean win the match, i mean destroy, flip a station, full force heel turn, make him the SSM again,

 

[RD_21]

To start off sure he is fat, but we are seeing improvement imo in his weight lately.

To me it WOULD have been simple. When he work a match 2 weeks ago he was REALLY impressive he look dominant and I was like "f yeah Joe is back" but what happen at the end... RVD won..........

They could have started to work Joe to the top again if he had won his 2 matches in the Bound For Glory series, have him be in the top 4 by the end of it and in a fatal four way match, you give him credibility and book him to be dominant. On his part Joe needs to keep working on his weight and there you have it. Joe need to be agile, strong and dominant and it pretty much speak for itself, no need for any gimmick, just be the guy who does little talking, take name and kick ass.

And I won't even talk when he was snobbed by AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels, wtf was that, I know they will build a feud and a match with Kazarian but you can't have those 2 pretends Joe doesn't exist and Joe not beating the shit out of them, that was bad.

 

[The HEEL JuiceLee]

I posted a thread on this yesterday but i believe a great way to get Joe back to the MainEvent scene is to have him fall to the back of the BFG series.Then when nobody thinks he has a chance and he has became a total joke all the sudde he start getting the 10 point submission victories left and right.Then on the last night of qualifying he makes the 4th & final spot of the series.

--just my opinion--

 

[New Hot Fed]

Have him beat everybody like TNA is doing with Shaun of the Red and Outgunned. That simple. He got over instantly in TNA because he was undefeated. Now I don't like the concept of the Goldberg streak other than for Goldberg because it has been done before and it's boring. But a good way for Joe to regain his luster is have him win more than lose. TNA management wants you to believe that he's not motivated and he need some sort of fixing of some kind. Remember when he was captured and he returned as The Nation of Violence with a new outfit and a big knife? That was their way of "fixing" him. Now they seem to want to transform into some sort of bar brawler. But he doesn't need fixing. Just let him go over big matchs, just let him blow the roof off the place with great matchs.

Now what TNA have to do is have him destroy Kaz at Destination X so that AJ come to help his friend. And in Rocky 4 fashion wants to get revenge on Joe for his actions on his friend.

 

[New Hot Fed]

To start off sure he is fat, but we are seeing improvement imo in his weight lately.

To me it WOULD have been simple. When he work a match 2 weeks ago he was REALLY impressive he look dominant and I was like "f yeah Joe is back" but what happen at the end... RVD won..........

They could have started to work Joe to the top again if he had won his 2 matches in the Bound For Glory series, have him be in the top 4 by the end of it and in a fatal four way match, you give him credibility and book him to be dominant. On his part Joe needs to keep working on his weight and there you have it. Joe need to be agile, strong and dominant and it pretty much speak for itself, no need for any gimmick, just be the guy who does little talking, take name and kick ass.

And I won't even talk when he was snobbed by AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels, wtf was that, I know they will build a feud and a match with Kazarian but you can't have those 2 pretends Joe doesn't exist and Joe not beating the shit out of them, that was bad.

Like I said in my post, maybe TNA wants Joe to lash out at Kaz at Destination X. And after he has destroyed AJ's friend, it's instant feud with AJ. And you could have Daniels in the middle where you don't know wich side he is on.

 

[wrestlingfan]

I was a fan of the Nation of Violence, Wouldn't mind bringing that back since he was kidnapped by ninjas and all.

 

[shattered dreams]

Go to ROH? Otherwise I do not see it happening soon. I was a huge Joe fan for years but ultimately it is his mic/character skills that keep him from being a main eventer. At some point you have to do more than be a badass if you want to consistently stay at the top. Joe hasn't really developed any additional character in years and his mic work is pretty one-dimensional. He definitely isn't in as good a shape as he once was either. It makes him look less intimidating or impressive, which is a shame because he still moves almost as well as he ever did. Combine that with a poor attitude at points, it is no wonder he finds himself kind of lost in the shuffle.

If I had to rebuild him into a main eventer I guess my first step would be to have him team up with a smooth talking tag team partner and have a dominate run in that division where we could work on changing his character some.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Go to ROH? Otherwise I do not see it happening soon. I was a huge Joe fan for years but ultimately it is his mic/character skills that keep him from being a main eventer. At some point you have to do more than be a badass if you want to consistently stay at the top. Joe hasn't really developed any additional character in years and his mic work is pretty one-dimensional. He definitely isn't in as good a shape as he once was either. It makes him look less intimidating or impressive, which is a shame because he still moves almost as well as he ever did. Combine that with a poor attitude at points, it is no wonder he finds himself kind of lost in the shuffle.

If I had to rebuild him into a main eventer I guess my first step would be to have him team up with a smooth talking tag team partner and have a dominate run in that division where we could work on changing his character some.

Agreed. Joe's been relying on the whole "im big and bad" since he came into this company.

 

[Chess]

I think the only way Joe is getting back in the main event is by sleeping with Dixie Carter, if this fails I fear he will be the one screwed and remain as a mid carder at best. This is a real shame as Joe really does have talent, infact he made his matches Vs RVD and Crimson good/great but in the end had to job out. Perhaps this is just a way to have him snap as he keeps fucking up before destroying some of the lower card. I would like to see EY defend the TV title but if he is not going to why not have Joe destroy him and defend the title weekly and beat wasters like Matt Hardy, OJ, Shannon Moore etc.

 

[Fenris]

Simple: Send him to the ROH bingo halls where he can main event for 50-100 people. Unless he makes drastic changes and actually shows ambition he won't be in the TNA main event again. If the last six plus years any indication it'll never happen.

The truth is he isn't main event material. I know, I know, that just pissed a few people off. So be it. From day one, this dude is told "hey we're giving you a contract and putting you on TV." What does he do? Shows up out of shape. They tell him "hey Joe, we're going to build you like Goldberg." Still doesn't get in shape. Raven, a guy who knows a thing or two(or 12) about gimmicks drops hints, if you're going to be a badass you need to lose the bodyfat and look it. Nada. Add in how he dogs it whenever he doesn't like an angle or feud, as well as not even trying to improve his gimmick and mic work. Add on expecting someone else to get him over and make him a main eventer. It doesn't work like that and he's just not cut out to main event in the #2 or #1 promotion.

If he still wants to main event though it would be in TNA's best interest to cut him and his sour attitude loose and give that roster spot to someone who will actually put in the effort, bust their ass and actually WANTS to get over. Trade him to ROH for someone even, let him be king of the bingo hall.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I think that steps are already being taken to get him back to the main event. It has been hinted that Joe has started losing that edge and that mean streak of his that made him what he is today. He took the loss against Crimson sportingly, he did not make much of a hue and cry at being left out of the Destination X match and he was unable to defeat Brother Devon of all people by submission which happens to be his strength. It certainly looks as if a well built up heel turn is on the cards which might get him back to the main event.

It looks like Joe is going to be a badass heel. While some people may say that it is a character that gets repititive after a while, the crowd undoubtedly wants to see him as one. It is a mere case of playing to your strengths. Joe has got the looks and the skills to pull off this role, but this time as a heel which is certainly a new thing. Ideally if he improved his mic skills he would undoubtedly be able to play quite a few characters but let's face facts. How much do people improve? Just a select few improve drastically and Joe is someone who needs a drastic improvement in that area which just looks illogical to me. The better option would be to give a slight twist to a role he is familiar in and which the crowd is used to see him playing.

 

[Fenris]

I think that steps are already being taken to get him back to the main event. It has been hinted that Joe has started losing that edge and that mean streak of his that made him what he is today. He took the loss against Crimson sportingly, he did not make much of a hue and cry at being left out of the Destination X match and he was unable to defeat Brother Devon of all people by submission which happens to be his strength. It certainly looks as if a well built up heel turn is on the cards which might get him back to the main event.

It looks like Joe is going to be a badass heel. While some people may say that it is a character that gets repititive after a while, the crowd undoubtedly wants to see him as one. It is a mere case of playing to your strengths. Joe has got the looks and the skills to pull off this role, but this time as a heel which is certainly a new thing. Ideally if he improved his mic skills he would undoubtedly be able to play quite a few characters but let's face facts. How much do people improve? Just a select few improve drastically and Joe is someone who needs a drastic improvement in that area which just looks illogical to me. The better option would be to give a slight twist to a role he is familiar in and which the crowd is used to see him playing.

Successes at pulling off the elite badass character in wrestling:

And then there's.... Samoa Joe.

See the difference? The fact is he doesn't have "the look" to pull it off, he looks like your typical lazy ass who sits around playing Xbox all day, not some badass that can beat the hell out of people. There is a reason, a very obvious reason that gimmick has worked with Warrior, Goldberg, Lesnar and Batista while NOT working for Vader and Samoa Joe, but i'll let you figure out the reason. Like I said, it is pretty obvious.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

If he has no intentions of being written out with an injury, and considering the power struggle story lines going on right now, he'd have to be pushed as being part of a major player in either a heel or face stable—Immortal or whoever they were against—to re-establish himself.

The only other option, IMO, is for him to get a small-time push toward the World Title, but get injured moments before getting his shot at competing for it at a major PPV event, this way when he does return, in the same fashion as guys like RVD just recently did, he can instantly be injected into the main event by default citing the opportunity he was robbed of.

That said, Joe doesn't scream main event to me. He can perform like the best of them, but his physique really does hurt him as fat guys don't tend to be taken half as seriously (especially when they don't cover up the way guys like Foley did) as the more fit wrestlers, especially in the public eye.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Successes at pulling off the elite badass character in wrestling:

And then there's.... Samoa Joe.

See the difference? The fact is he doesn't have "the look" to pull it off, he looks like your typical lazy ass who sits around playing Xbox all day, not some badass that can beat the hell out of people. There is a reason, a very obvious reason that gimmick has worked with Warrior, Goldberg, Lesnar and Batista while NOT working for Vader and Samoa Joe, but i'll let you figure out the reason. Like I said, it is pretty obvious.

Well Warrior didn't use the S.O.B gimmick he was just hyped up. I agree Joe should lose weight but to be all muscular? No, that's just trying to be the streotype. He has a unique look and if he just a cut a few weight gain a bit more muscle, reinvent himself he could be better.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Let me clarify my point a bit here — being a "big guy" does not mean he needs to look like he eats his Cheerios with liquid HGH. When I say his physique hurts him, I mean he's too out of shape to be wearing what basically looks like over-sized bicycle shorts and nothing else. His chest and upper abdomen specifically are what I'm referring to most, but also his arms. There's very little definition in any of those areas despite how strong he might actually be.

 

[Papa Pillman]

The fact is he doesn't have "the look" to pull it off, he looks like your typical lazy ass who sits around playing Xbox all day, not some badass that can beat the hell out of people. There is a reason, a very obvious reason that gimmick has worked with Warrior, Goldberg, Lesnar and Batista.

I completely disagree with this. Big muscles does not equal an intimidating look. Warrior and Batista neither one are very intimidating looking. Yes they have musclular physiques, but they come off as very "fake tough guy" looking. Neither one would be scary at all in a fight scenario. They look like guys that would "bitch-up" when the chips were down.

Joe on the other hand is not a guy I would want to be walking past in a dark alley. Joe seems to be the type that is legitimately willing and able to hurt you. All Warrior and Batista look like they could do is beat you in a bench-press competition, but if you said BOO loud enough they would jump out of there boots. In a MMA/Shoot fight type set-up I would bet the house that neither would survive one round against Joe.

Mcmahon has ruined the minds of wrestling fans with his "overly-juiced-up man" fetish. Muscles and toughness do not necesarily go hand-in-hand.