Hogan or Austin?

[KillBill]

Wow, I cannot believe we are having this discussion. I was a huge fan of Austin, but I just am getting sick of him being labeled the best ever.

Yes Hogan had the same moves for 20 years, but we still eat it up to this day. He made wrestling what it is today. Stop with this, oh, Vince coulda put anybody in there, and it would have worked. Yeah? Like who? Macho tried, but wasn't great as THE man. And don't get me started on the Warrior. The highest rated Wrestling segment ever involved Hogan, when he fought Andre on Sat Nights Main Event. 11.4. Thats rediculous, Austin never got that close in any match. The next closest was 8.4 segment, which involved, oh, The Rock.

I think its hard to compare because of the era. Austin got hot during a time when so much controversial stuff was happening, things people hadn't seen before, new and edgy stuff, people had to check it out. Yes Austin brought back back WWE. But why? Because Hogan was getting ratings in WCW. The quality of WWE went down after Hogan left, 94-95 were the down years I believe.

But Austin did more in 3 years than Hogan did in 20? What exactly did he do more of? Make more money? Is this proven, and if its true, things were more expensive then than in the 80's. He did revolutionize wrestling with the attitude stuff, but that was the new cool thing, so it blew up. Everything he was doing was new, it was omg, did he just do that.

Austin had to revolutionize the sport because Hogan had reinvented himself and was making WCW the better show.

But its 2 totally different eras. its like comparing apples and oranges. Hogan was the man in his era, Austin was the man in his. Hogans era lasted much longer, and that was including doing the same routine! He was the man in the 2 biggest companys in history, he made them both the number 1 companys at different times. Austin carried 1 company for 3 years. Hogan carried that Company for 12. Hogan then carried another Company for another 4 or 5 years.

I mean, some people say anyone could have taken Hogans place, so he got lucky and ran with it. Austin was lucky too. If HHH hadn't gotten shit on for the MSG incident, he would have won KOTR 96, not Austin.

Ask yourself this one question. Would Austin have gotten as big as he did if Hogan wasn't destroying the WWE in ratings?

Sorry for the rambling, ECW is on in other room, so I'm trying to listen to it.

 

[Doomsday Device]

You clearly misunderstood what I said.

I said that Austin made a name for himself in less time than what took Hogan to make a name for himself. And in whatever forum you see, they're usually being put on the same lines. Thats impressive.

Whats so hard to understand there?

Austin has given much more of himself after leaving the ring than Hogan.

Hogan just cash's the check and goes home.

Hogan putting people over???????????

Take a look at Summerslam 05 and 06.

Not willing to be pinned by a guy like Shawn who's done so much for the company.

Not wanting to put over promising talent like Orton.

That and the money has to be right.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

You clearly misunderstood what I said.

I said that Austin made a name for himself in less time than what took Hogan to make a name for himself. And in whatever forum you see, they're usually being put on the same lines. Thats impressive.

Whats so hard to understand there?

Austin has given much more of himself after leaving the ring than Hogan.

Hogan just cash's the check and goes home.

Hogan putting people over???????????

Take a look at Summerslam 05 and 06.

Not willing to be pinned by a guy like Shawn who's done so much for the company.

Not wanting to put over promising talent like Orton.

That and the money has to be right.

Let's get this straight. You are citing Hogan's last two matches as a basis for him not putting people over. Shawn Michaels didn't need to be put over in any fashion. I would have to like seen Orton won but I dealt with it. At least he actually wrestles in matches but Austin has had injuries so maybe I'll let that slide. You say Hogan needs the money but maybe Austin needs it too.

And how many people has Austin put over in his career? The answer is less than Hogan.

 

[Tenta]

You clearly misunderstood what I said.

Actually, Sly really didn't, I assure you. He knew what you were saying, but he pointed out how flwed your logic is. Your words were that Austin had a three year run, while Hogan had a nine year run. And I don't care who you are, 9>3.

I said that Austin made a name for himself in less time than what took Hogan to make a name for himself. And in whatever forum you see, they're usually being put on the same lines. Thats impressive.

Whats so hard to understand there?

Austin has given much more of himself after leaving the ring than Hogan.

Really? He has? I fail to see how. He hasn't come back for that return match, as Hogan has, and either than making sporadic appearences, Austin really hasn't done that much for the WWE after his departure. His HOF ceremony is the only thing he came back for, and besides that, The Hulkster isn't invited back as many times by Vince, because

A. Hogan has a lot going on in his personal life, which is away from the realm of our conversation
B. Vince seems to be holding a grudge on Hulk.

Either than that, Hulk has actually come back more and for longer times than Steve Austin, in terms of coming back while not under contract

Hogan just cash's the check and goes home.

That doesn't apply to the topic, really. I mean, that's personal life, and just an attack at Hogan.

Hogan putting people over???????????

Take a look at Summerslam 05 and 06.

Not willing to be pinned by a guy like Shawn who's done so much for the company.

Not wanting to put over promising talent like Orton.

Again, who cares? Austin has had problems putting people over to. Remember when he took his ball and went home against Brock Lesnar?

That and the money has to be right.

And he just so winds up to draw huge amounts of money when he does return. anyway, other than attack Hogan for things that are outside the realm of this conversation, all you've managed to do is make a fool of yourself. In short, you should really stop while you're ahead.

 

[Slyfox696]

You clearly misunderstood what I said.

I said that Austin made a name for himself in less time than what took Hogan to make a name for himself. And in whatever forum you see, they're usually being put on the same lines. Thats impressive.

Whats so hard to understand there?

How about the fact that what you just said was factually inaccurate? Perhaps I didn't misunderstand, you just don't know what you're talking about.

Hogan debuted in wrestling back in '77. He was contending for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship in '79. He was in the movie Rocky 3 in '82, was main-eventing in the AWA in '83, and then returned to the WWF and won the title in '84. Hulkamania was born in '84. It took him 2 years to contend for the NWA title, and he was a superstar in roughly 7 years, in a period of wrestling where paying your dues meant not sniffing a main-event for years.

Austin debuted in '89, and began his big streak in '98. That's nine years, compared to seven. It took Austin longer to reach his apex than it took Hogan to reach his.

Try again.

Austin has given much more of himself after leaving the ring than Hogan.

WHAT???

How the fuck do you figure this? Hogan originally retired in 1993. Since his first retirement, he's won 7 World titles, and led a wrestling boom.

Since Austin's retirement, he comes out, buries whomever he's in the ring with and drinks a bunch of beer. Try and maintain a semblance of objectivity and logic.

Hogan just cash's the check and goes home.

And gives wrestling fans matches for the ages (see: vs. Rock at WM 18, vs. HBK at Summerslam '05).

Hogan putting people over???????????

Take a look at Summerslam 05 and 06.

Not willing to be pinned by a guy like Shawn who's done so much for the company.

Not wanting to put over promising talent like Orton.

That and the money has to be right.

Good fucking Lord, you know NOTHING about wrestling.

First of all, putting over HBK would have been stupid. HBK has NEVER been on Hogan's level, still isn't on Hogan's level, and for Hogan to lose part of his ability to draw to a guy who would benefit NONE from the win would be beyond ******ed.

As for Orton, you're kidding right? Do you just conveniently ignore history? Orton was a nobody when he wrestled Hogan. HHH buried in 04, he had multiple disciplinary procedures against him in 05 and 06 (as well as an injury), including a 60 day suspension for unprofessional conduct. He came back from his 60 day suspension to be made into Kurt Angle's bitch at One Night Stand. Orton's feud with Hogan MADE Orton look credible again. Furthermore, roughly a year after his feud with Hogan, Orton became World Champion.

Hogan put Orton over big time. Saying otherwise is to be completely ignorant.

As far as the money being right? Uhh, yeah. Professional wrestlers don't work for free.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah it's Hogan. It always has been Hogan and it always will be Hogan. Now don't get me wrong: Austin is the 2nd biggest superstar of all time, hands down. However, Hogan was indeed around longer and had a bigger impact. Austin did indeed save the WWF, but without Hogan, there might not have been a WWF for him to save. Hogan changed the industry forever, while Austin was huge for about three years. Now in those three years, Austin hit a point that I think was higher than Hogan's. I read somewhere that he even broke Hogan's merchandise records, but take that with a grain of salt as I can't find the place I got it from. Overall though, it's Hogan. Hogan was wrestling for a long, long time. Austin saved the company, but Hogan made it first of all. Without Hogan, there's no Austin.

 

[KillBill]

Just for the record, as far as Hogan not putting people over, in his return in 02, he put over Taker, who didn't need it, he lost to HHH in a rematch, put over the Rock twice, (which is more than Austin), and Lesnar. Its a shame about those last 2, because they left WWE soon after. Lesnar destroyed Hogan. And Edge got a great rub too, winning the tag titles with Hogan.

 

[SavageTaker]

It’s Hogan. It will always be Hogan. Like mentioned already, yes Austin saved the WWF, but if it wasn’t for Hogan there would be no WWF for Austin to save. Hell there might be no Stone Cold Steve Austin at all. I mean Stone Cold the wrestler, not the man. Hogan did so much more than Austin did for wrestling. Hulk Hogan made pro-wrestling popular and made it go to a main-stream level. If it wasn’t for Hogan, we would probably not be watching wrestling today. Who knows where wrestling would be if Hogan hadn’t came along and made it a worldwide phenomenon. Hogan has an overall bigger and longer lasting impact on wrestling than Austin and there’s no denying that.

Also, I do want to point out one thing. When Hulk Hogan was wrestling in the 80’s, the WWF wasn’t running many pay per views and there was less merchandise. When Stone Cold was wrestling in the 90’s, there were 12 pay per views and a lot more merchandise. A lot of people had shirts, action figures, and other merchandise. Where as in Hogan’s time, not everyone had merchandise. So if during the 80’s, had the WWF had the same amount of pay per views and merchandise they did during the 90’s, then Hogan might have made a hell of a lot more money for the company.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I never gave my opinion did I?

Ladies a gentleman of the thread: It's Hogan, the original HHH(Hollywood Hulk Hogan).

It has already been stressed that Austin saved a dying WWF/E, but Hogan didn't just save WWF/E, he picked it up and carried it to the main stream finish line and then took it even further. In my opinion, he saved all of wrestling. He made every star in every company after his initial run relevant. Hulk Hogan might have been less skilled than others physically, but he was such a good performer that it didn't even matter what he did in the ring. He had the fans eating out of his hand and if Hogan was to come back right now at damn near 60, I believe, he could do it all over again.

 

[avi01]

Just for the record, as far as Hogan not putting people over, in his return in 02, he put over Taker, who didn't need it, he lost to HHH in a rematch, put over the Rock twice, (which is more than Austin), and Lesnar.

I think it`s fair to say that in his 2nd run (2002), he was not really in position to not put over anybody....specially guys like Taker, Rock and HHH. He never really expected to win the Title. That`s different. The not willing to put over thing is from his first run and wcw.

 

[RVDgurl]

Simply enough, because the man didn't have to. Hulk Hogan is probably the smartest man in pro wrestling, in realizing he could do as minimal as possible, and still get a pop. The man was trained by Hiro Matsuda, for Christ Sakes. That's the same guy that had a hand in training wrestlers such as Muta, and Ric Flair. You really think he doesn't know these moves. No, he's simply just a smart man, and in his intelligence, realized he could get a huge pop, even by doing minimal action.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that Hogan didn't have to use any more moves then he did. In fact, I'm sure I said that. But that doesn't change the fact that he used a limited moveset, which I personally found boring- even as a kid. I get that 99% of people popped for his legdrop, I just wasn't one of them.

Really, that's funny. I never saw Austin wrestle a different type of match, as compared to Hulk Hogan. The only type of out there gimmick match he worked was a ladder match against Vince and Shane McMahon. Otherwise, Austin's style was pretty damn straight forward. More versatile? Well, he relied heavily on brawling, and rarely went to the air. The thing he did best was throw punches, and provide a pretty good Lou Thesz press.

I'm not passionate enough about the Hulk Hogan vs. Steve Austin debate to search through YouTube for videos (although I do appreciate your efforts, I'm just not as technologically inclined), but you should refresh yourself with some of Austin's work in WCW and ECW. most of his WCW stuff is completely different from the WWE stuff. He focused more on mat wrestling and did use dome aerial moves, as well. You are throwing out stuff from across the globe to support your arguement for Hogan, so you can't box Austin into just the Stone Cold character.

Yeah, but Vince based his entire corporation around Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan was the basis of Wrestlemania, and he was also Vince's biggest star. I'll use the anaology of Disney and Mickey Mouse. sure, Disney had multple cartoons, but do you think Disney would be the same without Mickey Mouse? Do you think they'd be just as good with Donald Duck running things?

And in the 90's, Vince based his company around Stone Cold because that's where the money was at. And I do love your Disney analogy because when Disney first became popular, Mickey Mouse was all the rage. But as Disney developed and became bigger, other characters began to overshadow good ol' Mickey. If you asked a kid in 1985 who his favorite Disney character was, he would probably had said Mickey Mouse. If you asked a kid in 1997 who his favorite Disney character was, you would probably get a different answer. Someone is always going to come along and be better than the original. That was Austin. (By the way, Donald Duck was always my favorite, so thanks for giving him a shout out! )

Watch that match with Muta. Oh, and wasn't it you that said earlier that Austin could wrestle more diversified, and now you're saying that it was his character to wrestle the way he did? Back track much?

Austin can and has wrestled with diversity across the duration of his career. To make myself more clear: he wrestled a brawling style as the Stone Cold character because that's what the fans paid to see. Just as a decade earlier the fans wanted to see Hogan wrestle a certain style.

You're also talking different era in promos. You're talking about a wrestler that relied far too much on swearing to get his point across, and while he had some great catch phrases, no one benefited from the sound bite era of promos Austin was caught in than Steve himself. His promos never left you remembering anything about what he said... All I remembered was that he cussed a lot, and said a lot of catch phrases.

Again, I wish I was more up on the YouTube shit, because some of the best promos Austin ever cut were during his short stay in ECW. That was groundbreaking material.

the fact is that Hulk is much more diversified a promo man than you make him out to be. You act like the "training, prayers, and vitamins" were his crutch, and that he didn't have effective promos without them. Watch these promos of Hollywood Hogan, and watch how diversified of a promo man Hulk truly was.

The Hollywood Hogan promos were heads above any promo he ever cut in Hulkamania days. I haven't forgotten about this portion of his career, however, I still think Austin had a little more flair when delivering a promo.

Actually, Hogan is first, Austin is second. And while austin did revolutionize the business, without Hogan, there wouldn't be a business to revolutionize at all.

Your opinion and I respect it, however, my opinion sees it reversed. And while Hogan and Austin both revolutionized the wrestling business in their respective eras- neither of them invented it. Wrestling was around 50 years before anyone ever heard the name Hulk Hogan and wrestling would still be around today even if there never was Hulkamania.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Two totally different wrestlers who can only really be compared in monetary terms. Undoubtedly, Hogan was the bigger overall moneymaker of the two, but Austin had the bigger yearly revenue average (for instance, Hogan may have drawn twice as much as Austin overall, but it took him four times the amount of years as Austin to do so).

I do however find it funny that most of Austin's detractors try to explain away his success with claims that are little more than outright lies. Ultimately, Austin is the second most important wrestler ever in the modern era of wrestling, and the only person directly responsible for his success is himself.

 

[Wrath]

I think neither is superior to other.The thing that Hulkamania fans support is without Hogan there would be no Austin.But I don't think this logic works well.Because in that sentence you mean that Hogan is superior to Austin just because he was first.Don't get me wrong I don't support Austin but I think comparing them is like comparing an orange and an apple.They were in two completely different times and draw superbly well for their time.

I'm not going to say without Hogan there would be no Austin. I'm going to tell it exactly how it is. Without Hogan, WWE would never have went national, WrestleMania 1 would have flopped, and the WWE would probably be out of business, or still a small territory.

Arguing something that we will never know is bullshit.Maybe without Hogan WWE would be in a better or worse place we can't know it.Maybe because of Hogan someone who has more drawing power than Hogan overshadowed by him.It's just a theory but as long as we can't know the truth arguing without Hogan it would be like this is a bullshit argument.Who would have though Rocky Maivia was gonna be one of the biggest star in WWE.

Without Hogan there would be no WWE. Vince takes a lot of credit in the making of Hulk Hogan, but honestly, Hulk Hogan made Vince, the WWE, and WrestleMania.

Again a theorotical argument.We can't know what would happen without Hogan and you talk like without Vince Hogan could've been a superstar he is right now.It was simple Hogan needed Vince,Vince needed Hogan.

That being said, Austin on the other hand. His wrestling matches in the WWE went like this. Kick Kick punch punch chair shot flipoff stunner "hell yeah" drink a beer leave.

And Hogan's matches were like dominated by heel for 10 minutes then starting to no sell hulk up,leg drop,taunt and leave.That's why your argument is weak you criticise Austin for what Hogan did for 20 years.Was that a bad thing?No that was what the fans wanted.

Now, Austin could wrestle, as shown during matches with Ricky Steamboat. But, he never showcased his true wrestling ability whilst ontop of the world.

When did you see a Hogan's match during Hulkamania era that was technical?So why would Stone Cold's be?People wanted to see Austin's flips,kicks,drinking beer just like they wanted to see Hogan's no sells,hulk ups and leg drops.

Hogan on the other hand, put on a great show every Saturday night. Showing supurb technicallity, great charisma, and amazing promo skills. He was once of the best all around professional wrestlers ever.

Have to agree with that one but Austin also did the same things during 97-01.

In terms of who the bigger star was. I think Hogan takes that one too. 93,000 fans came to see Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania 3. No one else. The roster was filled with Midcard talent, had mostly 2-3 star matches. Then Hulk Hogan came, and made WrestleMania 3 one of the biggest WrestleManias in the world. Still holding a reputation of being one of the best WrestleManias ever, while most of the card sucked, Hogan alone made the entire Mania one of the, if not the most rememorable Mania. Can Austin say he made a defining moment in the WWE turning an entire card with 2-3 star matches to what could be the biggest card ever? I don't think so.

Of comparing 2 compeletly different eras and times again.In Hogan's era there wasn't 12 ppvs in a year and Hogan barely defended his title on Tv.It was like a god gift to see a Hogan ttile defense match on a free tv.So WrestleMania was more important on those times.But in Austin's era I don't even have to mention how many federations,wrestling shows and PPV's there were.So you're comparing two completely different eras.

I'll say it again don't get me wrong.I don't think Austin is a better draw.I just think it's impossible to compare them because their prides were different and so much things have changed in that time span.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Well I'm going with Hulk Hogan on this one because not only have I met him now twice and he's a really nice guy but Hulkamania lasted way more than the Austin era. Without a doubt, I'd pick Austin second though and really it may even be a tie. Both of them deserve credit for the WWF's success. Hogan paved the way for an Attitude Era and characters like "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and The Rock. Austin helped the WWF out at a time when they were in trouble and losing to WCW. So both played major roles.

I remember back in '98/'99 when I was in 8th grade/high school when Austin became the top guy I would see Austin 3:16 t-shirts all over the place, especially at my school. It was the first time I wasn't embarrassed to be a wrestling fan because all of the "cool kids" were wrestling fans and wearing the t-shirts.

But if I had to pick one of them in their prime to build a promotion around I'm taking Hogan.

 

[Blue Chipper]

Hulk Hogan is the best, and is better than Steve Austin. Hulk Hogan is undoubtedly the biggest draw ever, and has helped wrestling more than anyone, ever. He was the biggest draw as not only a face, but a heel as well. He has had the most memorable moments and matches, has great story telling, can play an audience, was the biggest draw, was the most charismatic, and understands wrestling to it's core. Therefore, Hogan wins this, and can be called the "best".

 

[owenhartfan]

Austin was huge and will go down as one of the biggest stars in Pro Wrestling history, but will always be behind Hulk Hogan. Its already clearly stated in this thread by the most knowledgable wrestling fan forum posters.

Austin is one of the elite that even got into Hogan's league. IMO was a bigger force then Hollywood Hogan and anyone else at the time in the business and was probably the biggest star besides Hogan in the 80s. There is way too much Austin and Hogan bashing in this thread. Insulting the wrestler's inring abilities is irrelvant determining who was better between these two and that both men deserve props for their remarkable pro wreslting careers.

I remember back in the attitude era when Goldberg was made a star and fans would always ask Goldberg or Austin. That might make an interesting thread or maybe Sting or Austin, Flair or Austin, etc. I'm just curious to see how many people agree with me that Austin is number 2?