Hell In A Cell....Dead?

[DarkLordFett]

Since the company has gone PG, is the brutality of HIAC dead? Is the most sadistic structure gone? I loved HIAC matches. They were career defining moments. Who can ever forget JR commentating on Taker/Foley, "Good God Almighty, they've killed him! He's broken in half!" after taking a fall from the top of the Cell? Or Trips/Taker? Or Trips/Foley? They're some of the most memorable matches ever.

The Elimination Chamber might be more brutal, but for my money, HIAC will be the match of matches. The structure feared by more wrestlers than any other. No other cage has shorted more careers, bloodied more bodies, or caused more carnage to it's competitors.

If HIAC is truly going to be gone, let's have one more. One more time, let's end HIAC with the man that started it. Undertaker vs Triple H, Hell In A Cell, Wrestle Mania 28, both career's on the line.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

In the short term, yes. I think it's good though. There is only such much brutality you can do before guys start dying. I mean really how much more brutal is anything going to be after HIAC 98?

Here's my thinking. the current era doesn't even need to think about getting over on vulgarity or brutality. They need to be more like the Golden era. get over on entertaining wild characters. Be more "fun" than intense. I know it's hard for a lot of people on here to understand that wrestling can be "fun" if it's not bloody or cussing, but it really can be. I love stuff like Santino, I'm entertained and that's the bottom line.

There is what I call the "pendulum" theory, not sure who came up with it, I think Samoa Joe, but for everything entity that's on one side of the spectrum, there will eventually be something on the other because you can only take each side so far. In the early 90s people had enough of the cartoon characters and goofy hokiness. I think that, maybe not on this board, but the media and people in general were tired of the crude and vulgar. Wrestling is in full swing the other way. Don't worry, it'll eventually be back to cussing, blood, and titties.

 

[avi01]

HIAC has lost its feel because of that dumb idea of having a HIAC ppv. Of course there is the whole PG thing that tones down the brutality but the main reason is the HIAC PPV. It is the kind of match that fits well in an emotionally driven storyline whereby HIAC is announced as a shocker to settle things. But when we have a ppv where we know there will be like 2 HIAC, it just does not have that big match feeling.

 

[Azane]

PG is not the only thing to water down HIAC, although the brutality point is the main issue, the HIAC matches also suffer from the themed pay-per-views, when you heard someone make a match Hell in a Cell, you know that it was going to be epic, and fit the story. Fast-Forward to now, theres a PPV that's going to have 2 or 3 HIAC's thrown together, and force 2 people with no "hellish" gimmick together. I'd rather see HIAC being a blowoff to a long feud, than to be a #1 contender vs champion story type match. The psycology behind wanting to be locked in the cell with your hated opponent, just doesn't fit every story that WWE's forcing itself to make them into.

Edit - Beat to it by 2 minutes.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I think that the HIAC PPV is fine because it's not as brutal. Instead of enhancing a feud it's a marketing tool. People who don't follow wrestling closely will order a PPV if they know it has a HIAC. If they don't follow, they may not know about it. However, if it's called "Hell in a Cell" then they pretty much know it'll have hell in a cell match(es).

I agree, it's kinda lost it's big match feeling, but in the PG era it shouldn't be viewed the same. I get why they do it the way they do though.

I'm not saying that it shouldn't be seen as a big match, I just don't think you should think of HIAC the same was as you did before PG. It can't possibly fullfill that expectation because of the PG. They can't drop the PG because of the current media climate. So you use HIAC as a marketing tool until you can use it for hate and emotion again.

 

[DarkLordFett]

I really think that they could find a nice balance between the PG and giving us a product us older fans want to see. The Hogan era was great for the time. But I don't know how well that will work in these times. Fans wanted to see something more 'grown-up'. I just feel like VKM has too much of a stranglehold on creative. I know he owns the company, he can basically do whatever he wants. But I just don't know about the past couple years. It just feels like we see the exact same feuds, just with different wrestlers.

HIAC PPV was not the greatest idea. Maybe if they had at most 2 HIAC matches to wrap up a very gripping feud it could work in the PG era. Like Azane said, it just doesn't make sense to have HIAC matches for no particular reason. I guess we'll see what they come up with later this year.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I think if Vince could he WOULD give you more of an adult oriented program. Like I always say though, the media would rip him to shreds. It'd be a PR nightmare. People still bring Benoit. Shit I saw a "True Hollywood Story" over it just the other day. It was a repeat, but it's still relevant.

I don't see it as the exact same, then again, for a period I couldn't afford to not work pretty much everyday after school and didn't watch Raw consistently. It feels fresh to me (guys like Miz, Rhodes, ziggler, etc).

 

[93178]

The problem with HIAC now is even though the matches could sell be great and HIAC could still work in the PG era, after seeing old HIAC matches the PG ones just don't really work.

I'm not saying you need blood and everything to make a match look dark and evil as before. A HIAC should be something we see maybe once a year if even that. Making a PPV around it kind of ruins the feel. Also after we saw HIAC matches where everyone was covered in blood after and used weapons or where thrown off the top of the cell or through the top of the cell, having a match with no blood and not nearly as brutal looking just makes the HIAC seem kind of lame. You look back on old HIAC matches and see what it took for them to finish the match, now someone can win one without even making the other person bleed. It makes the new stars kind of look weak compared to the old ones.

 

[fredstephenson]

I think if Vince could he WOULD give you more of an adult oriented program. Like I always say though, the media would rip him to shreds. It'd be a PR nightmare. People still bring Benoit. Shit I saw a "True Hollywood Story" over it just the other day. It was a repeat, but it's still relevant.

I don't see it as the exact same, then again, for a period I couldn't afford to not work pretty much everyday after school and didn't watch Raw consistently. It feels fresh to me (guys like Miz, Rhodes, ziggler, etc).

to be fair i think if vince wanted it to be a more adult orientated show again nothing would stop him from doing it theres just more money in this pg crap at the moment although ive noticed that its getting a tiny bit edgier i hope they eventually get that balance of pg and adult stuff that someone mentioned earlier as for hell in the cell i dont know why they bother really anymore the whole idea of it is meant to be fued ending brutallity now they have a set pay per view for it which kind of ruins the feel of them there meant to be very rare and random but there not even that relevant anymore if there honest most people watch hell in the cell just to see someone get bloodyed up and take some bad bumps but we now know that wont happen before the match even starts so whats the point

 

[Savior with faith 101]

most people watch hell in the cell just to see someone get bloodyed up and take some bad bumps but we now know that wont happen before the match even starts so whats the point

Did you watch Raw?? Did you see Edge saying if hed had one more match he couldve been crippled? Have you read Mick Foley and seen how he destroyed his body in those matches??

That is why they arnt the same anymore, the safety of the Wrestlers. We are lucky some of the people involved in those matches are even alive, why would you want the people you idolise and go out of your way to watch, go out and do something so wreckless it could end up with them in a wheelchair or even worse?

Now while im not a fan of the themed PPV for all the same reasons as stated above, i for one am glad they have toned this particular match down as it was TOO brutal before. You can tell a good story without blood, headshots and giant bumps, let this generation do that and live a longer and healthier life than the previous generation....

 

[fredstephenson]

Did you watch Raw?? Did you see Edge saying if hed had one more match he couldve been crippled? Have you read Mick Foley and seen how he destroyed his body in those matches??

That is why they arnt the same anymore, the safety of the Wrestlers. We are lucky some of the people involved in those matches are even alive, why would you want the people you idolise and go out of your way to watch, go out and do something so wreckless it could end up with them in a wheelchair or even worse?

Now while im not a fan of the themed PPV for all the same reasons as stated above, i for one am glad they have toned this particular match down as it was TOO brutal before. You can tell a good story without blood, headshots and giant bumps, let this generation do that and live a longer and healthier life than the previous generation....

i didnt say say it was a good thing that they did all the crazy stuff and hurt themselves but theres no denying thats what most of us think of when we think of hell in the cell which in my opinion makes it a bit of a pointless match now

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

to be fair i think if vince wanted it to be a more adult orientated show again nothing would stop him from doing it theres just more money in this pg crap at the moment although ive noticed that its getting a tiny bit edgier i hope they eventually get that balance of pg and adult stuff that someone mentioned earlier as for hell in the cell i dont know why they bother really anymore the whole idea of it is meant to be fued ending brutallity now they have a set pay per view for it which kind of ruins the feel of them there meant to be very rare and random but there not even that relevant anymore if there honest most people watch hell in the cell just to see someone get bloodyed up and take some bad bumps but we now know that wont happen before the match even starts so whats the point

Yea, nothing stopping him except, yea, money, which is what he strives for as a businessman.

If you've never taken a bump, I don't think you can complain about guys not bumping. If the match is over then it did its job.

Like the other guy said, you can tell a good story without all the blood and guts. In my opinion, if you are entertaining WITHOUT all that stuff, and you can be entertaining in the PG era, you are more talented than someone who made a living being vulgar and crude and violent.

The match isn't pointless, the point is just different than what you're used to. The point now is to sell a PPV and a match. Which is fine. They SHOULDN'T use it as this hellish structure during the PG era because then it'll look dumb.

"hell in a cell" is a brand now. It sells. It sells on name alone.

think about this too, and this is one of the best argument for PG, when the pendulum starts to swing back the other way, how awesome is it going to be? HHH's chairshot on Taker was a big deal, why? It hasn't been done in a while. Stone Cold bleeding out at Mania 13 was a big deal, why? Because it had really never been done in the WWF before.

You can't always be negative. Try to look at the positives, or at the very least, try to understand why things are the way they are.

 

[Lion's Sacrifice]

I think the for the most part it is dead. For a couple of reasons.

1. The use of the match is no longer the same. The match use to be one that would bring a feud to an end. As was the case with HBK/Taker, Mankind/Taker, HBK/HHH, and so on. It's not being used as the end all match that it use to be. It was the last straw for two men to beat the hell out of each other to finally beat the other. It's now just used for as a gimmick match, that is thrown in there once a year. When in the past we would see maybe one of these matches a year. Once it became its own ppv it lost that special feel. It no longer feels as if its the end of a feud, just another match.

2. The change of the cell. To me, it doesn't seem to be as imposing of a structure that it use to be. Yes, the Cell is larger, but I believe the smaller cell was much better. It put some constraints on everything. Also, it allowed for superstars to get on top of the Cell, which truly added to a match.

3. There has been more focus on the elimination Chamber over the past several years then there has been on HIAC. It's been built as a stronger match, and it allows more guys to be involved. Though, even this match has lost some of it's luster.

 

[berlinbrawler]

The thing about HIAC matches is I never saw what about that structure was so damn brutal.
Sure, Shawn Michaels and especially Mick Foley took some huge bumps there, but eventually the wrestlers stopped breaking out of the cage and throwing each other down from it. So you take that element away and you got little more than a regular no holds barred match with a fence on the outside.
Don't get me wrong, I love HIAC matches, but it's really more hype than anything else.

 

[DarkLordFett]

I understand the buy rate for the HIAC name. Personally, I feel it's kind of cheap of VKM to keep the PPV without having some kind of resolution that we used to get with the match in the past. The pointless HIAC matches at the PPV also cheapen the history of the match. I know it will be kept up until the buy rate dumps. Or Vince changes his mind. I just hope they can do the history of the match justice in the PG era.

As far as VKM changing back to a PG-13 at this point, he can do it if he wants and not give a squirt of piss. He's Vincent Kennedy McMahon, and can do whatever he wants. Its all a PR move so Linda has a shot at a political seat.

Right now the only major issue I have with the programming is some questionable stories *cough*Cole*cough* But that's another thread

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

I think the HIAC has lost a lot of its brutality, but I don't think it has anything to do with going PG. HIAC has its own PPV now, so it's not surprising to anyone when an HIAC match is announced, and the match is going to happen regardless of how intense any given feud will get.

Plus, HIAC matches weren't particularly "above" TVPG. Sure, pre-PG HIAC matches had a lot of blood, but these matches were mainly used for huge spots, and unique moves involving a cage, not blood and gore. In short, HIAC was ruined by the PPV, not by the show's rating.

 

[baufan2025]

I'm all for the brutality of Hell in a Cell. Humans are violent creatures and we want to see violence just like the Roman Gladiator days. As for safety, Mick Foley knew what he was getting into when he went into the match knowing he was going to take a dive off the cage. If your a grown man they can't make you do brutality, so the workers who want to do it, let them do it.

 

[ryder123]

HELL IN A CELL - END OF AN ERA

I agree with this post. Hell In A Cell has lost it's touch on providing a brutal match. Who will ever forget the first time Hell In A Cell was announced back in 1997. "Let's have a cage match", "Naw let's have a Cage match with a roof". Undertaker and HBK took the Company to a knew level. They showed that WWE will not hold back on destroying a human body. If you even watch The Undertaker vs Mankind Hell In A Cell and Immediately after watch Randy Orton vs Sheamus at Hell In A Cell last year. The difference is unbelievable. The Cell itself has even changed. It's a much smaller scale cage with no chance of escaping. To make matters worse, WWE decided to make a Pay Per View after the match. Bad idea. It was exciting when a story would end in a Hell In A Cell match for (e.g The Undertaker vs Edge). Now we all know when a Hell In A Cell is going to take place. I think in my opinion, WWE should drop the Cell match and build up a new match type, very simaliar to the Cell though. If it is coming to an end then i agree with The Undertaker vs Triple h at Wrestlemania 28. The ultimate victor will be declared in the Cell.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The days in which you'll see guys getting tossed off top of the cage are over and done with. And, truth be told, that's exactly the way it should be. Like a lot of people, I was blown away with Taker vs. Mankind in HIAC at KOTR 1998 but here we are nearly 13 years later and look at all the damage that hardcore wrestling has done. When you look at all the wrestlers that've died over the course of the past decade or so too and matches in which wrestlers have taken such incredible bumps and beatings are part of the reason.

There have been several great HIAC matches over the past several years. Batista vs. The Undertaker at Survivor Series in 2007 was a great match. Nobody flew off top of the cage, nobody took chair shots to the head, they weren't bleeding all over the place. Undertaker vs. Edge at SummerSlam in 2008 was fantastic. Told a helluva story, great physicality, no blood, no chair shots to the head, etc. If that hadn't been the year Flair "retired" at WrestleMania, it may well have gotten match of the year. Cena vs. Orton at the first HIAC ppv was a good match as, surprisingly, was the tag team HIAC match between DX & Legacy and I enjoyed Sheamus vs. Orton quite a lot at the last HIAC ppv.

For me, the problem with HIAC is that it no longer has that special feeling to it. It doesn't have quite the same "Oh man, I gotta see this thing" aura about it now, which is understandable since it has it's own ppv. I'd love to see HIAC go away for a few years and brought back as an occassional attraction like they used to do it. Give it a "must see" feel about it like I felt with Taker vs. Edge and things'll be fine.

 

[Owensplat]

hell in the Sell was boring after the second time they used the gimmick, the first HIAC was a good idea, the second time was great, but what was the third time... a six pack challenge at armageddon 99, yeah that didnt make sense, and thats when they should have retured the gimmick... and HIAC is overkill with the elimination chamber which theorectically should be even more damaging than the Hell.

thaqt being said, i would love to see a Hell in the cell Inferno match.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

I would say it may be a while before we see another Hell in a Cell. Right now, WWE is trying to show it's an entertainment company that produces a family oriented product. Second, with Edge retiring and the main event scene that much more depleted, it would be a huge risk for Vince to put his performers into matches that could result in serious injury for a main eventer. Even if a performer had to rest from injuries from the match for 2 weeks, that alone could be devastating to WWE. Then there is the whole concussion thing that is being brought up, WWE couldn't actually showcase a cell match, it would give more ammunition to his critics.