Heels Are Better Wrestlers

[NSL]

This came to me thinking about Finlay. As a heel, he put on some great matches recently with guys like Matt Hardy and Ric Flair. Since he's gotten Hornswoggle in his corner, he's become a joke. He hasn't had near the quality of matches that he had previously, and has turned into a comedy face.

There's been other examples. Ric Flair was much better as a heel, both with and without the Horsemen. Shawn Michaels is a great face, but some of his best matches were worked as a heel. The Rock, Austin, and Triple H all had good runs as heels. Williams Regal is much better in the ring as a heel.

Is it due to what we want to see? Or, what is fact?

Heels go for the hair pull, use the brass knuckles, and duck out of the ring when the going gets tough. They use the ropes for leverage during a submission, they put the foot on the rope to help the pinfall, and they always have the best managers/valets. It's smarter to be a heel. You can keep your title with a count-out or DQ, and it's always easier to be hated than loved. Promos are always more fun to listen to and watch, and you always have the upper-hand due to run-ins and breaking the rules.

Faces have to fight within the confines of the rules, and they never chop block or use a closed fist (when it was illegal). Chaos reigns supreme. Fighting with rules is no fun to watch, and no fun to root for.

 

[Shadowmancer]

I would actually have to disagree with you, while they do have to control the majority of the match if you look at a traditional 1 vs 1, the babyface has the more difficult job, they have to either get the crowd behind them, or to get them against the Heel, two different things if you look close enough. The face generally takes a lot of the beatings in a match, the more pop orientated moves are done by the face, they have to bump more. The babyface comeback has to be done with exact precision to gain the most heat for the match. The Failed Babyface comeback is even more at the control of the babyface, they have to determine the point of most impact for the reversal and communicate with the Heel about it quickly during the "ongoing stuff", the pace is set by the dominating position but the face is the one that has to have more skill, the heel is more open to gaining heat through cheap means, case in point JBL. The Babyface can't do the sort of things that a person would generally do, they have to show themselves as an example to people, so in a way what Jericho has said about the fans being hypocrites is sort of true.

 

[NSL]

I would actually have to disagree with you, while they do have to control the majority of the match if you look at a traditional 1 vs 1, the babyface has the more difficult job, they have to either get the crowd behind them, or to get them against the Heel, two different things if you look close enough. The face generally takes a lot of the beatings in a match, the more pop orientated moves are done by the face, they have to bump more. The babyface comeback has to be done with exact precision to gain the most heat for the match. The Failed Babyface comeback is even more at the control of the babyface, they have to determine the point of most impact for the reversal and communicate with the Heel about it quickly during the "ongoing stuff", the pace is set by the dominating position but the face is the one that has to have more skill, the heel is more open to gaining heat through cheap means, case in point JBL. The Babyface can't do the sort of things that a person would generally do, they have to show themselves as an example to people, so in a way what Jericho has said about the fans being hypocrites is sort of true.

I admit that the face has a difficult time in the ring. I'm just saying that the heels are better, which is why the faces have so many problems. The heels don't need big spectacular moves to sell their point. They can do rest moves (abdominal stretches, camel clutches, armbars, etc.) and drive the "heel" point home. If a face does an ab stretch, the heel almost always gets out quicker. They can do the better wrestling moves, instead of the better entertaining moves. Kurt Angle as a heel was perfect. He had the mat technique to take anyone down, and knew enough moves to beat down any face.

Kane is a great heel, and has failed as a face, because of his moves set, and because of the way he performs in the ring. Orton is the same way. He is a great wrestler, but outside of the RKO, he doesn't have a flashy move in his repertoire. Jericho works better as a heel, because he can sell himself as an evil guy, someone the fans want to see lose. He has a load of flashy moves also, and tends to use them mostly as a heel. As a face, he normally gets pummeled the whole match.

 

[Slyfox696]

You might have a point...if your point wasn't completely absurd.

As I've said many times, being a good wrestler has nothing to do with the number of moves you do. Being a good wrestler is about the story you are able to tell in the ring, your ability to make people care about you and believe in you. Face/heel disposition has nothing to do with any of that.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

You see, I find this very interesting. I won't dismiss it as quickly as Sly has.

Shadowmancer makes a terrific point. Maybe the reason heels seem "better" is because they have the easier job. They have to be hated / disliked. Faces have to earn the respect of the crowd, get the crowd to like him, time the comback and the "pop moves" to tell the story accurately, take the beating, AND make sure the heel is hated.

But wait, hold on a second. Recent history has taught us that the heels also have an equally difficult task - being a HEEL and not getting cheered for being "Cool." The Steve Austin era allowed for faces to break rules and do hitherto "heel" things such as backstage attacks, swearing, using foreign objects, etc. Austin didn't gladhand with fans coming down to the ring, and he certainly wasn't colorful or glamorous like Hogan, Warrior, or Savage. Austin could act like a heel and STILL get cheered.

A heel, on the other hand, has to break rules and do these things WITHOUT making the crowd cheer them out of respect, admiration, etc. Part of what Orton has done so well lately has been his ability to be cool but still make the fans hate him. When he wrestled Triple H and busted his shoulder, he left the ring with the shoulder already bruising. We knew we was injured. The crowd cheered, and Orton yelled at them, telling them to shut up. Great moment for him. He didn't acknowledge the respect of the crowd, he threw it back in their faces. That's a veteran heel move.

SO maybe being a heel isn't easier.

And for every guy who sucked as a face but was good as a heel (Kane, Flair, Michaels, etc.) there is a guy who sucked as a heel but was great as a face (Sting, Cena, Styles, etc.)

So in conclusion - no, heels are not better wrestlers than faces.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I wasn't going to reply but you ignited my passion when you called AJ Styles a bad face. It was AJ you were referring to, right? Who else could it be - Joey?

You see, I find this very interesting.

Oh, you find everything interesting.

Shadowmancer makes a terrific point. Maybe the reason heels seem "better" is because they have the easier job. They have to be hated / disliked. Faces have to earn the respect of the crowd, get the crowd to like him, time the comback and the "pop moves" to tell the story accurately, take the beating, AND make sure the heel is hated.

On thing I know for sure is this - you get a lot of people saying someone is a good heel than a good face. Maybe it's just the IWC/Canadian obsession with cheering for the guy you're meant to boo, who knows?

A heel, on the other hand, has to break rules and do these things WITHOUT making the crowd cheer them out of respect, admiration, etc.

I don't know. I think you're making it out to be harder than it actually is. Unless you're massively popular, like Austin, I don't think you have to worry excessively for being cheered. Edge has balanced it out by sleeping with Eddie Guerrero's wife. Otherwise, villainous as banging Lita was, he comes over as very cool. You can always do something heinous to face.

Styles

Styles was a great heel, he was just a comedy heel. He oozed charisma and had a heavily defined persona - one which wasn't the old cop-out of "me but with the volume turned up".

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I wasn't going to reply but you ignited my passion when you called AJ Styles a bad face. It was AJ you were referring to, right? Who else could it be - Joey?

Que? I called him a bad heel. I called him a great face.

When he was a heel, he did NOTHING to make me dislike him. He made me dislike the product more, because he was being used to enhance Angle and those guys. I mean, here's a former multi-time NWA World Champion being used as a comedic enhancement talent. Don't get me wrong - he made me laugh - but he was a terrible heel.

It just seems like I find EVERYTHING interesting, but I only post in those topics I find interesting. Which is why I don't post in many of Sam's threads...

 

[HBK-aholic]

I think being a face is a lot harder than being a heel, and therefore I think those that can play a face well are better wrestlers than those that can play a heel well. To get over as a heel, all you really have to do is insult the town you're in, and attack a face. Hating someone is a lot easier than loving them.

You might have a point...if your point wasn't completely absurd.

As I've said many times, being a good wrestler has nothing to do with the number of moves you do. Being a good wrestler is about the story you are able to tell in the ring, your ability to make people care about you and believe in you. Face/heel disposition has nothing to do with any of that.

If this post wasn't directed at NSL, ignore.

While I agree here in theory, I don't think he was getting at the amount of moves they CAN do as being important. While I could be wrong, what I got from his post was the type of moves they do, and how that style links to their character, is important in helping shape a fans opinion. He wasn't so much commenting on the number of moves, but on the way they cheat and do things 'illegally'.