Heels and their characters

[silrock316]

First, I would like to apologize if this is a thread that has been used before. This is my first time I have started a thread. I usually find entertainment in others views and opinions on whichever chosen threads they make. Anyways, unfortunately my daughter has been in the hospital with complications the last few days and I have gotten a better perspective on life and its ups and downs and it has made me appreciate the good in our world/lives a little more than usual. My point is, I was sitting back and just watching Smackdown on Friday in Philly and truly began to appreciate what these entertainers actually give up to entertain us (away from loved ones etc. etc.) and it made me think of their dedication some individual work ethics and it brought me to thinking the following:

1.) Heels, in my opinion take more talent and more attention to detail to be successful. A face doesn't even have to talk to be successful, whereas most of the time a heel has to be great on the mic to gather heel heat especially if his in-ring talent is suspect. Where a face can get away with being brutal on the mic i.e. Jeff Hardy but have great in ring talent and be over. Or Batista being brutal in the ring but ok on the mic and still be over. Where heels for the most part to be over, you must be good at both. Which led me to:

2.) I can't stand how Jericho is pushed aside by the WWE. It might just be all in my head but week in and week out Jericho who is IMO the best all around heel we have seen in awhile is being spat on by lessor talent faces. The legends and Rourke pretty much made Jericho look weak after it all ended. Rey pushes him down and leaves, Hardy interrupts him and smacks him around. Although Jericho may pull out the wins at PPV's I think all in all it makes him look weak compared to the other top heels. I mean look at Orton, when a face crosses him you almost ALWAYS know he will get them back in a vicious manor. Same as HHH when he was heel. Edge? He gets a face back pretty vindictively. Maybe I am off but to me I never come away thinking "damn Jericho really took it to this guy" after a feud is finished. There is some really good heels but for a guy like Jericho that is nearly perfect in everything he does, I don't feel like the WWE gives him what he deserves. We are talking Edge being a what 9 time champ? HHH like 13 times?

Basically I am asking, do you all think the Jericho is under valued for the quality of work he puts in?

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Under valued? The man won the World Heavyweight champion during this heel run. He's the single most over wrestler on either side of the spectrum. Jericho is a walking, talking, quality wrestling match every time he's in the arena.

He beat Cena AND Batista to keep his WHT. And the WWE always value someone who makes them money. That guy is Jericho. And we can't measure success in title reigns these days. You realize that Hulk Hogan was only a 6 TIME WWE/F Champion? Flair's 16 title reigns were over the course of 30 years. Jericho's the first UNDISPUTED champion in the WWE, and has held the IC Title when it was relevant.

To sum this up...Jericho does his job...and that's be a good heel. Which means sometimes you have to get your ass kicked by someone like Mickey Rourke. Roddy Piper took it from Mr. T, Bam Bam took it from Lawrence Taylor, and Big Show did from Floyd Mayweather. So to measure Jericho's value by him being beaten every once in a while is foolishness.

 

[MattDaCripple24]

I agree with you on all counts. Especially measuring success by title reigns. Edge is a 10 time title holder now I believe, it's 9 or 10, but all but one of those have been since he cashed in Kennedy's Money in the Bank against the Undertaker in '07. That's F'in ridiculous. I would like to see Jericho take the Heavyweight Title by say, Summerslam and start a feud with Orton (We all know he's gonna have that Title forever now) to get his undisputed title back. Hope your daughter's okay by the way silrock.

 

[Phoenix]

He beat Cena AND Batista to keep his WHT.

Jericho's never beaten Cena to keep the WHC. He's lost every championship match he's been in with Cena!

At this time, if you asked me who would I remember more about what they done in the current roster, I'd think of Chris Jericho. Doesn't matter about bookings, he does his job as Brock Lariat said and does a damn good thing about it. Undertaker has the same amount of title reigns as Jericho (roughly) and he's going to be remember for what he done than Edge winning 9 titles or Triple H winning 13.

Jericho's cemented in history already for being one of the best on the mike, the first Undisputed Champion, 8-time intercontinental champion, a triple crown/grand slam champion, ladder match veteran, a top selling book (was he a NYTimes Best?) etc, etc.

He's currently (with Edge and Orton) the best top heel, he's one of the best on the mike, he lives entertainment! He does his job and gets respect. Doesn't matter about World Title reigns, it's what you do that counts!

 

[silrock316]

MattDaCripple24: Thanks, she was just discharged and is doing well.

OK back to the thread, I understand the point about title reigns because a good wrestler is over with a title or not. What I was basically thinking was I get the feeling WWE gets stale on him. Like why wasnt he in a more important feud at WM. Why take him off of the flagship show? The anticipation of his save us return was huge but then sorta cooled off. I dont feel he gets the pushes of other top tier wrestlers such as trips, Orton, Edge. I think Jericho is a more natural heel than edge(edge is great dont take that wrong). I just feel he is not valued as much and not featured as much as the aforementioned wrestlers and as someone stated everything Y2J touches is great. I'd like to see him beat a Cena for the title without cheating as Y2J still would get great heat if he cheated or not. I wish he would get rewarded more I guess.

 

[Kid A]

i can see what you're saying about Jericho, he def does come off as week during the early parts of his feuds...i personally think it feuls his character more and gives it more juice though.. i think the fans genuinly like to see bad things happen to Jericho because ultimately it makes him come back for more, and refuse to shut up. he feels he's the greatest ever so when Rey pushes him or he gets interrupted and leaves the ring, the next time he comes back he's got even more to say, i think its actually good for him..but to the naked eye it def doesnt seem like its really doing anything for him.

 

[Scott Free]

MattDaCripple24: Thanks, she was just discharged and is doing well.

OK back to the thread, I understand the point about title reigns because a good wrestler is over with a title or not. What I was basically thinking was I get the feeling WWE gets stale on him. Like why wasnt he in a more important feud at WM. Why take him off of the flagship show? The anticipation of his save us return was huge but then sorta cooled off. I dont feel he gets the pushes of other top tier wrestlers such as trips, Orton, Edge. I think Jericho is a more natural heel than edge(edge is great dont take that wrong). I just feel he is not valued as much and not featured as much as the aforementioned wrestlers and as someone stated everything Y2J touches is great. I'd like to see him beat a Cena for the title without cheating as Y2J still would get great heat if he cheated or not. I wish he would get rewarded more I guess.

It would be arguable if Jericho is getting his just reward, bottom line as a reward is how much they are paying the guy. He's featured a lot on TV, whether or not positively, it doesn't matter, he's often taking up TV time and using it to entertain, so if his paycheck reflects this, he's getting rewarded right. Prominence wise, while he wasn't in a championship match at WM, he did manage to put on a decent match, and defeated 3 legends clean plus beat down Flair. Jericho is always inches away from the top tier, at any given time he can step up and challenge for any title, and it will be credible and acceptable, no questions about it, plus, he's such a master at audience manipulation that he can turn face at will, so his position isn't all that bad.
As far as his push being dwindled down at his return, I think it was because the WWE didn't feel confident about giving a guy who basically quit on them a huge push right from the get go, I could be wrong.

 

[bxbigshow]

To begin, I love this thread, now as to Jericho.

While I love everything he does, Jericho doesn't need a World title to get him over. He his as old school as it gets. Piper in his prime was one of WWF's best heels and NEVER held the World title. Jericho is that guy that can get under your skin, make you want to see his ass kicked and then see who he goes after next.

While I like Edge, I feel as a heel he NEEDS the Title to advance himself as a heel. I understand it, his nickname is the Ultimate Oppurtuntist, so taking advantage of these oppurtunities is in his character.

Orton, his character besides being the Legend Killer is that of someone obsessed with being the best and recognized as the best. So title reigns need to add to that equation. The only recognition as the top of the industry (kayfabe) is the Title.

Jericho on the other hand, his character isn't obsessed with these things. His fight (up until his SD! drafting) has been based on this 'moral' code that he holds:

HBK...sellout to 'these hypocritical fans'.

Cena, not talented enough for the spot that he holds.

The Legends, past their prime, holding on for just one more...playing off The Wrestler storyline. THEY are whats wrong with wrestling in his characters eyes.

Rourke...by portraying this side of the business 'spat' on what's great about the industry. Insulted by the mere idea that because Rourke played a wrestler on in film, he (Mickey) had the gall to imply that he can take him. (His Larry King with Mickey sold the concept well)

The WWE of World title is trivial to him while fighting these battles. Maybe now on SD! he might focus on that, but I like the direction he was going in.