He won the WWF title during Hulkamania!!!

[Mighty NorCal]

Is the weak, cheap ass excuse I see everyone giving why Macho Drink Savage was so great.

I say thats bullshit. Why? Quite simply becuase even though Savage had the belt, it was STILL all about Hulk Hogan. How did Savage win? after the formation of the Mega Powers. Wasnt over enough on his own, fuck knows that. Whose colors did they wear upon coming to the ring? Hulk Hogans. Who saved that guy every time the chips were down? Hulk Hogan. What did his entire title reign amount to? Him turning heel, so he could lose to...

You guessed it, (unless your an idiot) Hulk Hogan.

Macho Man having the belt during Hulkamania might be the most overrated accomplishment of anyone ever. The entire focus was STILL on Hogan, he merely shared the spotlight, which he eventually shoved Savage out of.

 

[klunderbunker]

Factual. The definitive Savage time in his career wasn't 1988. It was in 1992 when he feuded with Flair. This was the case because there was no Hulk Hogan anywhere in sight. Savage won the title and defended it on his own. Back in 1988, it was indeed all about Hulk Hogan and Savage knew that was what was going to happen. Watch his title celebration with Hogan and Liz. If you can read lips you can see him say "please let me have my moment." Hogan never leaves the ring. That whole thing was designed to keep hogan in the spotlight while making it appear that it was on Savage.

From what I've read, this was the original plan for Mania 4: Savage isn't in the tournament, but beats Honky for the IC Title. Hogan was planned to go through the tournament to meet DiBiase in the finals where he would lose clean. This would eventually lead to Savage winning the title at Summerslam and then WM 5 would have happened. Honky Tonk Man refused to job to Savage, so the plan was messed up. This was all the opportunity that Hogan needed to step in and make sure that he didn't lose clean and wouldn't be out of the title picture as long as he was.

Either way, Savage's title reign meant nothing when you really look at it. He had no big title defenses and no feuds of his own. It was always about Hogan in the end, and Savage's whole reign was designed to build a credible opponent for Hogan to squash.

 

[finneycom1]

Yeah, but Savage was still 100% better than Hogan in the ring. His promos were better, his ring work was 1000 times better. Ever since wrestling has displayed a more open look at the behind the scenes look at wrestling and I found out just how much of a spotlight hog Hogan was, I am ashamed that I was such a Hogan fan back in the day.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

ah, fantastic, our first contestant. if you would sir, please enlighten us all as to why Savage was SO much better in the ring than Hogan? If he was SO much better, then why was he, at his absolute apex, nothing but a second fiddle, being built for a Hogan squash? Did nearly 100,000 people sell out one building to watch a Savage match? no, no they didnt.

 

[DMan23]

First of all, nobody should be ashamed of being a Hulkamaniac back in the day. He is what professional wrestling is all about: entertaining the fans and making money. Bottom line. Second, Randy Savage was the most talented in-ring performer from the time of his WWF debut through '92. I don't care if he had to lay out an entire blueprint for his matches. He executed and they were great. He deserved to be champion in '88 and the year build to WM5 led to one of the greatest, underrated, matches in Wrestlemania history.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

ah, fantastic, our first contestant. if you would sir, please enlighten us all as to why Savage was SO much better in the ring than Hogan?

Better matches, obviously.

Did nearly 100,000 people sell out one building to watch a Savage match? no, no they didnt.

Same can be said for a Hogan match. There is 20,000 plus added on to the attendance of WrestleMania 3. SummerSlam 1992 is WWEs biggest actual attendance.

It's an achievement because even 20 years ago Vince was trying to replace or find another Hogan. It wasn't until ten years later that he actually did, even then that guy didn't last as long as Hulkamania.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Better matches, obviously.



Same can be said for a Hogan match. There is 20,000 plus added on to the attendance of WrestleMania 3. SummerSlam 1992 is WWEs biggest actual attendance.

It's an achievement because even 20 years ago Vince was trying to replace or find another Hogan. It wasn't until ten years later that he actually did, even then that guy didn't last as long as Hulkamania.

if his matches were so much better, than why was it Hogan regularly put ahead of him? Why, the year after wrestling Hogan, was he in a mixed tag match against Dusty Rhodes and Sapphire?


thats a damn filthy lie Jake. WWE would never do such a thing, as inflating attendance numbers. Im sure WM 3 had a bigger gate. the english pound is shit. big america crowd > english crowd

 

[Y 2 Jake]

if his matches were so much better, than why was it Hogan regularly put ahead of him?

Norcal, you know as well as I do that actual wrestling ability doesn't matter if you're insanely popular. Why should it. If people are happy with a limited routine then there's no need for you headline star to do more.

Hogan was more popular than Savage, I didn't say otherwise.

Why, the year after wrestling Hogan, was he in a mixed tag match against Dusty Rhodes and Sapphire?

Same as above. Dusty Rhodes & Harley Race were former NWA Champions and they were WWE comedy acts.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Being insanely popular is the only true indicator of wrestling ability. you can do all the flips, suplexes (and in this case) flying double axe handles as you would like, none of it matters if no one cares about you. and no one cared about Macho Drink until he was carousing with the Hulkster.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Being insanely popular is the only true indicator of wrestling ability.

I've never bought into that. Having good matches is the best way to indicate wrestling ability.

Getting a good reaction is the best way to determine popularity. If you're having shit matches but people react to you then push them, if you have good matches but nobody cares then don't.

you can do all the flips, suplexes (and in this case) flying double axe handles as you would like, none of it matters if no one cares about you.

Good job Macho Man was popular. Good job Bryan Danielson is popular in ROH as well.

and no one cared about Macho Drink until he was carousing with the Hulkster.

He didn't get the belt at Mania 4 because he wasn't popular before the show.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I will post a video of me doing numerous suplexes on a child. we will have a hell of a match together? does that mean I have more ability than Hulk Hogan? of course not. Same thing.

Popular becuase he was teamed with Hulk Hogan. he worse the yellow and red, for goodness sakes. and he had Liz, and her huge tits with him as well. brian Danielson? popular? to who, the 12 people who watch ROH? I dont think the word "popular" can apply there.

for that last part, I refer you to what KB said earlier. The real plan had Macho man winning the IC title off of Honky Tonk, and Honky riggled out of doing the job. So they went with a swerve. Thumbs down.

 

[justinsayne]

if his matches were so much better, than why was it Hogan regularly put ahead of him?

Hogan had better charisma, but charisma doesn't always = better matches, Hogan was great as far as being an all around entertainer, he beats Savage in pretty much every category except match quality

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I will post a video of me doing numerous suplexes on a child. we will have a hell of a match together? does that mean I have more ability than Hulk Hogan? of course not. Same thing.

Who said anything about ability? I said better matches. I doubt you performing a shitty routine with a friend would be, what I consider, a good match.

Popular becuase he was teamed with Hulk Hogan. he worse the yellow and red, for goodness sakes.

Before the Mega Powers? Yeah, he also worse pink. Don't step on the Hart Foundations those there Randy.

and he had Liz, and her huge tits with him as well.

Huge, post boob job, in WCW. She was also a face, he was a heel. Mostly.

brian Danielson? popular? to who, the 12 people who watch ROH? I dont think the word "popular" can apply there.

Like I said, popular in ROH, are you going to say he isn't?

for that last part, I refer you to what KB said earlier. The real plan had Macho man winning the IC title off of Honky Tonk, and Honky riggled out of doing the job. So they went with a swerve. Thumbs down.

Worked out better for him in the end.

made eveything look belivable, and did everything logically. and sold the bejesus out of others offense.

This is from the Bret Hart rating stystem thread. I just didn't feel like posting in that thread. I don't disagree with the score. But I just don't agree with your evaluation.

made eveything look belivable,

No he didn't. Him being so over the top is probably a large reason why he was so popular.

and sold the bejesus out of others offense.

Until he no sold it towards the end of a match.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Who said anything about ability? I said better matches. I doubt you performing a shitty routine with a friend would be, what I consider, a good match.


Before the Mega Powers? Yeah, he also worse pink. Don't step on the Hart Foundations those there Randy.



Like I said, popular in ROH, are you going to say he isn't?



No he didn't. Him being so over the top is probably a large reason why he was so popular.




Until he no sold it towards the end of a match.

I said child, not friend. come on now.

Yes, he wore pink when he wasnt popular. during themega powers, and the title reign, he worse yellow and red, to further suck off of Hogans greatness.

known to 12 people isnt "popular"

He did though. Hogan got his ass kicked royally by just about everyone. and Once again, being popular is what pro Wrestling is all about. The no selling at the end was part of the character. He was the unstopppable hero. It was nothing to do with his skill or ability in the ring.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Yes, he wore pink when he wasnt popular. during themega powers, and the title reign, he worse yellow and red, to further suck off of Hogans greatness.

Find me a team that didn't wear matching colours at that time.

Oh, and Hogan started to have Mega Powers written on the back of the trunk, kinda like Savage, when usuallly he had a bare bottom. So it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. A mutual man crush, if you will.

known to 12 people isnt "popular"

But I said popular in ROH, right?

There are several thousand Ring Of Honor fans globally, maybe even several hundred thousand. I'm not saying Danielson has anywhere near the popularity of even a WWE mic carder. But in his promotion, he's insanely popular.

Just like you, are popular on this forum.

being popular is what pro Wrestling is all about.

Like I said, Bryan Danielson is popular in Ring Of Honor Pro Wrestling.

Entertaining is what pro wrestling is all about.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Well, then why didnt Hogan change his trunks to pink then? also, the colossal connection, and the twin towers didnt dress alike. Just sayin. Also, alll the tag teams back then werent comprised of two high profile singles guys. If Savage were that ove rby himself, they wouldve maintained individuality. but they didnt, and not only that, they went with Hogans colors.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Well, then why didnt Hogan change his trunks to pink then?

Because he was the bigger star I guess. I never said different. But seeing as Hogan always wore yellow trunk and Savage frequently changed then it would make sense for Savage to adopt.....Orange trunks.

also, the colossal connection, and the twin towers didnt dress alike.

So? I said matching colous. Both wore blue.

Also, alll the tag teams back then werent comprised of two high profile singles guys. If Savage were that ove rby himself, they wouldve maintained individuality.

But Savage was over by himself. Look at his career before and look at his career after. As a bit parter in a promotion without any Hogan he was still over.

but they didnt, and not only that, they went with Hogans colors.

Then you should make a thread about Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Christain and others staling the red & yellow.

Next you'll say that Triple has stole Hogans n.W.o look. Black, that bastard.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I was loooking at his carreer after. Hence brining up his epic encounter against Polk a dot dusty, and Sapphire, while Hogan. that same night, was putting on the second biggest match in the history of wrestling. Yea, Savage was over in WCW, but that was long sinc ehis involvement with Hogan. thats why everyone knew him so well.

and when Hogan came to WCW? well, whatya know, there is Savage, back in the yellow and red.

Al of what you said, doesnt change the fact that Savages crowning acheivment was to being built up to be another Hogan victim. after that, it was back down to earth, competeing in comedy mixed tag matches.

 

[klunderbunker]

I've said it 100x. If wrestling ability came down to how many moves you knew, Dean Milenko vs. William Regal would have headlined about 10 Manias in a row. Savage was a better technical wrestler than Hogan was, but so what? For the most part people don't buy tickets to see the athleticism. People buy tickets for the theatrics. How many Charlie Haas shirts do you see? What about Sylvester Terkay? They both know tons of moves and can put on techincally sound matches with anyone. You'll never see people lining up to buy their merchandise though. You will however see a ton of Santino Marella shirts. His best match on television might last 3 minutes. People like him because of the theartics. Rarely will you see a top guy that has good wrestling matches. What you will see is a guy on top that has good performances that gets the crowd entertained. What it boils down to is wrestling vs. entertaining. Savage is a better wrestler, Hogan is a better entertainer who wrestles.

 

[finneycom1]

Being insanely popular is the only true indicator of wrestling ability. you can do all the flips, suplexes (and in this case) flying double axe handles as you would like, none of it matters if no one cares about you. and no one cared about Macho Drink until he was carousing with the Hulkster.

Are you really a wrestling fan? So, I guess that if 100,000 people pay to get into a building to watch paint dry, then you are going to argue that watching paint dry is much better than watching a wet t-shirt contest? I know that is a silly comparison but baiscally you just told me that just ticket sales make the man.

Yes, if you are a promoter, then you are going to make the guy that sells the most tickets, your main guy. No question. I simply stated the Savage, IMO as a wrestling fan, was 1000 times better in the ring than Hogan.

You tell me if you think that Hogan could have the same quality match with Steamboat at Wrestlemania 3 than Savage did. You're gonna have two kind of people that look at that Wrestlemania event that will tell you what the best match on that card was. The first kind of people are gonna say Hogan vs. Andre. They are going to tell you that this match put wrestling in main stream and they are right. The other kind of person is the kind that actually enjoys a good wrestling match. They will tell you Savage/Steamboat was the best on the card and in the history of 'Mania. The Hogan/Andre match did alot for the business, but the match itself was ok at best.

I still cant believe that you are going to tell me that Hogan, in the ring, was better than Savage b/c of ticket sales. Unbelievable!

 

[Mustang Sally]

...if his matches were so much better, than why was it Hogan regularly put ahead of him?

In those days, if WWE consisted of 50 wrestlers and they all went down in a plane crash, the headline in the next day's newspaper would read:

"Hulk Hogan, 49 others killed."

The company was built around Hogan and everyone else in WWE had to either play second fiddle to him or find another line of work. There were plenty of capable wrestlers working there who would have been eligible for a push, but management concerned themselves with Hogan first, everyone else later.

The guy who started this post said that Savage's title reign was about Hogan...... and he was right. But it's no big surprise since everything else was about him, too. The company needed to take the title from Hogan for a while, and Savage was a commendable choice to fill the gap. Personally, I enjoyed Macho Man's matches far more than Hogan's and thought he could wrestle rings around him.

I'm not saying that WWE did wrong by doing all this, either. They knew who their meal ticket was and acted accordingly.

 

[Bud78]

I'm not sure what your argurment is here. Is is that Hulk Hogan is more popular than Randy Savage, because if so you are correct. Or is it that Randy Savage sucks, because that is not correct. Randy was very over at both Wrestlemania 2 and 3. At Wrestlemania 3 he had one of the best matches ever and drew a ton of heat for his program with the Dragon. That's all pre-Hogan. True his title reign was just to build up to get beat by Hogan but look at wrestling back then, fewer shows, longer storylines, fewer wrestlers holding or vying for world champions, the bottomline was if you were going to work at the top back then you had to be over to some extent. You sound like Savage was Charlie Haas before he got with Hogan and then he back astar, not accurate. As far as Wrestlemania 6 I so he wrestled Dusty Rhodes I hardly think that is something to discredit the man's career over. Nobody is attacking Hulk Hogan so I don't understand why this clown felt the need to attack Savage.


When Yah Gonna Get Mad Big Dust, When yah Gonna Get Bad Big Dust

 

[MisterRob]

I'm not sure what your argurment is here.

Because there really is no argument, its merely NorCal stating his opinion with the same logic a child does while sitting in a sand box. It's silly really. There's nothing to debate about the fact Hogan was a bigger star and bigger draw then Savage, nor that Savage's reign was done to build up a long term feud/storyline that culminated with Hogan winning back the title and making another big match for WrestleMania.

But trying to bury Savage the way that's being implied is just stupid. I don't care who you are but if you're not over with the crowd (like Savage was), able to draw (like Savage was), and didn't have the ability that Savage did, there is absolutely no way Vince McMahon is going to put the championship on you for as long as Savage held it. How long was that again? Uh huh. Main events still had to draw, buyrates still had to come in, and Hogan wasn't clinging to Savage for the entire course of his title reign nor in every match or every main event. Would the same variables have worked with anyone else in the WWE at the time? No, and that alone proves the value of Savage and counters everything being said to downplay Savage's impact in the WWE at the time. Savage was chosen for a reason.. the same reason he was over before he won the championship and became part of the Mega powers, where he had classic feuds and held the Intercontinental championship (something that wasn't thrown around to anyone but an up and coming star back then). The same reason he held the World championship for a year, feuding with Andre the Giant and One Man Ganga (not only stuck around Hogan as the short sighted NorCal implies), and the same reason he was over in WCW his entire career there and became a multiple champion there.

No one can argue Savage compares to Hogan (aside from being a better in ring wrestler), but I don't see the point of downplaying his reign or rise to super stardom in the WWE, because the case you make isn't even honest. Its like a spoiled little child saying, "because I said so!"

 

[PBA_Sensation]

There is no reason to even argue with Mighty NorCal here. This guy, as you can tell, is a Hogan fanatic. No matter what you say about anyone else, Hogan is better in every way. Why is this thread still going? All he is doing is throwing in the Godlyness of Hogan, and by Godlyness I mean booking power. Look man, Hogan was great, no doubt there. But Savage was just a step back. Hogan gave Savage the rub, which is why he was pushed higher. But gee, didnt Hogan have to give everyone a rub? Warrior was never big right, until Hogan jobbed? WRONG. Savage? WRONG. Flair? WRONG. Hogan didnt make every wrestler, brother. As great of a performer as Terry Bolea is, he isnt god to wrestling. If it wasnt him, it would have been someone else. So get off Hogans nuts for once, because there are plenty of other wrestlers out there besides him

 

[SAMBOLIEWWE]

. So get off Hogans nuts for once, because there are plenty of other wrestlers out there besides him

I duno if there would be room for him anyway, what with all the creepy shit we have seen with Brooke. and im sure the Experiences Nick had in the Big House , he might be on there as well now.

The fact that people would even toy with the idea that Hogan had better matches than Savage is so crazy. I was a little Hulkamaniac growing up, and I can respect who Hogan was and what he did. Hogan had good psychology , to a degree. he knew how to get reaction. But His matches were nowhere near Savages. I really cant believe there are people on here who even consider arguing that .