HBK vs Rey on Smackdown (Jan 29,10) highlights everything wrong with wrestling today!

[Slyfox696]

I watched Smackdown for the very first time in a LONG time tonight, and paid particular attention to the end of the Shawn Michaels vs. Rey Mysterio match, and could only shake my head at how far today's professional wrestling has fallen.

For those who are fairly new to the professional wrestling game, coming in some time over the last ten years, my next statement may actually shock you. Professional wrestling, for the longest time, strove for realism in its product, and did not make a mockery of itself in its matches. Take a moment to digest that fact, for the newer wrestling fans have probably never experienced wrestling in that way, unless watching it on archived footage released on WWE DVDs. Wrestling used to strive for realism in its matches, tried to preserve and protect the illusion of a real battle, even if the concept of it being scripted was the worst kept secret in entertainment. The matches, especially between the greats, played out in a truly believable and realistic fashion, and for one who didn't know that wrestling was scripted, they would never figure it out watching the matches of yore.

Unfortunately, wrestling today is no longer like that. The matches are obviously a scripted show, and completely lack any realism. Furthermore, the very essence of professional wrestling has been so completely tainted by past storylines and societal changes, that it becomes very difficult to ever find a wrestling superstar to lead pro wrestling into Golden Eras wrestling previous enjoyed. However, instead of speaking in generalities, allow me to point to specific examples.

1) Professional wrestling matches never end until both wrestlers get to perform their signature moves, no matter how ridiculous the set-up to those moves may be.

We've seen this repeatedly with Rey Mysterio, and how the only times wrestlers ever seem to lay on the second rope in wrestling any more is when they wrestle Mysterio. A wrestler who never lies on the ropes will do so three times in a Rey match. Even the most dim-witted wrestling fan (and that's saying a lot) would pick up this pattern. Take tonight for example. We saw two separate occasions of HBK lying on the second rope, we got to see the HBK nip-up and flying elbow drop, and even heard the commentators announce that combination usually resulted in HBK momentum.

Now, think about that for a second. HBK does those moves so often (every match) that the commentators mention how regular it happens. So we're to believe that HBK allows himself to get his ass kicked for 15 minutes and THEN thinks to do a nip-up and flying elbow drop? Why the fuck would he not do it sooner? Why not just kick a guy in the face to start and be done with the match? I understand that suspension of disbelief is necessary for wrestling, but it makes it too difficult when we see the same Signature Move endings to a match every week.

And Rey did the same thing, and it was no more believable. First, Rey hits HBK from the corner after HBK charges him. Naturally, HBK flies away from the contact...then remembers that Rey has to do a springboard move, and so he ridiculously staggers back toward Rey to get hit. Then, coincidentally I'm sure, HBK miraculously lands on the second rope, so Rey can hit his 619 kick. But, unlike all other competitors, HBK flies back further, just so he can get his Sweet Chin Music in. The last several minutes of the match were devoted solely to getting each wrestlers Signature Moves in, and the result was a complete lack of believability in the match.

Whatever happened to the days when wrestlers DIDN'T have to win a match by their signature moves? What ever happened to catching a guy by surprise and pinning him? Whatever happened to just wearing an opponent out so much he couldn't continue? Anymore, if a wrestler hasn't hit their finishing maneuver (many of which are completely ridiculous, but that's a thread to be discussed later), then you know the match is not going to end. It kills the realism of a match, and takes all power out of every other wrestling move.

2) Run-ins occur simply for the sake of occurring and have no meaning.

We saw this in the match as well, for after a 15-20 minute grueling match, in which Rey took all sorts of punishment 2 days before the Royal Rumble, Batista decides to run into the ring to do...what? Beat on Rey and HBK a little more? How much more damage can Batista do to a guy who just wrestled a 15-20 minute grueling match and just got kicked in the head?

Then he gets ready to whip up on Shawn Michaels...but luckily the WWE had Triple H's music queued up. Why? Who the fuck knows, HHH wrestled the first match of the night. I guess, as a precaution, the people who run the sound system just happen to get everyone's music spooled up and running. Or, maybe Triple H had made his way to the guerrilla position and told them to play his music so he could run out and save his friend. Because, as we all know, when you go to save your friend from getting beat down by a bully, you can't run out there without your music playing. Makes sense, right?

3) The existence of the "bad ass Face" completely ruin the whole purpose of professional wrestling.

And finally we get to what truly disgusted me about the Rey vs. HBK match. After Triple H and Batista conveniently find themselves out of the ring (which I didn't actually have a problem with...that's one of those staging directions you tolerate for the betterment of the show), we then have the Undertaker show up in the ring.

Now, let's paint the scene. You just had Rey Mysterio, a good guy, wrestle Shawn Michaels, another good guy, for a good solid 15 or 20 minutes. Then, both guys have to face the wrath of bad guy Batista. Finally, the good guy Undertaker comes to the ring, and what does he do?

First, he picks on the helpless prey of the two faces down in the ring, Rey and HBK, which is a heel move if I've ever seen one. Then, he grabs them both by the throat and chokes them, another heel move. Just out of curiosity here, why the fuck is he even bothering with Shawn Michaels, when his match on Sunday is with Rey, and he already denied HBK another match? Then, in the ultimate act of cowardice and heelish behavior, he picks both of the incredibly weakened wrestlers up by the throat and chokeslams them to the mat. And, of course, the idiots in the crowd cheer.

Am I the only one who sees the problem here? If your "good guys" pick off, after the match, wrestlers who have already killed each other, chokes them, and then slams them by the throat, what do your heels have to do? Use a chainsaw to cut off someone's arm? It's ridiculous. The bad ass face has run completely amok, and it's totally destroyed the very essence of pro wrestling, which begins and ends with fans wanting to see bad guys do bad things and get punished by the heroes for it. But when good guys do bad and cowardly things, how can you boo the heels for doing the same thing?

It's absurd, and in my opinion, will be the reason that wrestling will NEVER see another boom period until the course rights itself. Until you can have a wrestler that everyone can get behind and support, because what he is doing is what everyone thinks he should be doing, most notably punishing bad people, then you can never again have the mega draw which leads a boom period.



Combine all of this together, and this match shows the complete unrealistic farce professional wrestling has turned into. And because the matches openly mock any attempt at realism, it makes it so much harder to suspend your disbelief and become emotionally invested in the show. It's an absolute tragedy to any real wrestling fan, who truly appreciates the art that professional wrestling used to be. And the Rey vs. HBK match tonight, did nothing more than highlight everything that is wrong in wrestling today. Make no mistake, this problem isn't limited to the WWE, their match just happened to be a shining demonstration.


My apologies for the very long opening post, but it was all needed. Feel free to give your opinions on what I wrote, not what you think is actually wrong with wrestling today. Address my comments...I'm not interested in hearing what YOU think is wrong with wrestling today.

 

[klunderbunker]

Now, think about that for a second. HBK does those moves so often (every match) that the commentators mention how regular it happens. So we're to believe that HBK allows himself to get his ass kicked for 15 minutes and THEN thinks to do a nip-up and flying elbow drop? Why the fuck would he not do it sooner? Why not just kick a guy in the face to start and be done with the match? I understand that suspension of disbelief is necessary for wrestling, but it makes it too difficult when we see the same Signature Move endings to a match every week.

I've thought about this before and the only conclusion I could arrive at (and I'm not saying I agree with it so don't bother picking it apart because I'll likely agree with you) was that Shawn has to wear the other guy down so that they won't be able to avoid the kick. I think it's based on the concepts of surprise and the other guy being worn down, although the stomping would tend to give the other guy a hint.

As for Rey: spot on. There was zero reason to believe someone would fall onto the ropes like that and there might be two instances ever where it's realistic. Also the ending with non-finishers is something I've advocated many times over the years. I remember Undertaker beating Rikishi with a DDT once and thinking it was brilliant because any of his other moves would have been impossible or looked poor. It was a nice change of pace and made the match much more realistic.

We saw this in the match as well, for after a 15-20 minute grueling match, in which Rey took all sorts of punishment 2 days before the Royal Rumble, Batista decides to run into the ring to do...what? Beat on Rey and HBK a little more? How much more damage can Batista do to a guy who just wrestled a 15-20 minute grueling match and just got kicked in the head?

It's the nature of WWE. This run in was predictable all night long and I was just sitting around waiting on it to happen. WWE has a real problem with letting someone get a clean win. Rey going over Shawn makes Rey look FAR more credible going into Sunday and it's not like it would be a stretch. he's a former world champion for crying out loud.

Then he gets ready to whip up on Shawn Michaels...but luckily the WWE had Triple H's music queued up. Why? Who the fuck knows, HHH wrestled the first match of the night. I guess, as a precaution, the people who run the sound system just happen to get everyone's music spooled up and running. Or, maybe Triple H had made his way to the guerrilla position and told them to play his music so he could run out and save his friend. Because, as we all know, when you go to save your friend from getting beat down by a bully, you can't run out there without your music playing. Makes sense, right?

This I think is explainable as you could argue that, from a kayfabe perspective, as soon as Batista was there the sound guy thought HHH would be making the save. Again though, the lack of music would be just fine.

3) The existence of the "bad ass Face" completely ruin the whole purpose of professional wrestling.

And finally we get to what truly disgusted me about the Rey vs. HBK match. After Triple H and Batista conveniently find themselves out of the ring (which I didn't actually have a problem with...that's one of those staging directions you tolerate for the betterment of the show), we then have the Undertaker show up in the ring.

Now, let's paint the scene. You just had Rey Mysterio, a good guy, wrestle Shawn Michaels, another good guy, for a good solid 15 or 20 minutes. Then, both guys have to face the wrath of bad guy Batista. Finally, the good guy Undertaker comes to the ring, and what does he do?

First, he picks on the helpless prey of the two faces down in the ring, Rey and HBK, which is a heel move if I've ever seen one. Then, he grabs them both by the throat and chokes them, another heel move. Just out of curiosity here, why the fuck is he even bothering with Shawn Michaels, when his match on Sunday is with Rey, and he already denied HBK another match? Then, in the ultimate act of cowardice and heelish behavior, he picks both of the incredibly weakened wrestlers up by the throat and chokeslams them to the mat. And, of course, the idiots in the crowd cheer.

Am I the only one who sees the problem here? If your "good guys" pick off, after the match, wrestlers who have already killed each other, chokes them, and then slams them by the throat, what do your heels have to do? Use a chainsaw to cut off someone's arm? It's ridiculous. The bad ass face has run completely amok, and it's totally destroyed the very essence of pro wrestling, which begins and ends with fans wanting to see bad guys do bad things and get punished by the heroes for it. But when good guys do bad and cowardly things, how can you boo the heels for doing the same thing?

It's absurd, and in my opinion, will be the reason that wrestling will NEVER see another boom period until the course rights itself. Until you can have a wrestler that everyone can get behind and support, because what he is doing is what everyone thinks he should be doing, most notably punishing bad people, then you can never again have the mega draw which leads a boom period.

In short, Vince Russo. It was his theory that faces and heels weren't needed, because Russo had ONE good idea with incredibly talented people to put it into motion making him a wrestling genius forever (seriously, look at his body of work and you see the same story repeating itself: screwjob, one guy was working in cahoots with another the whole time, women in small amounts of clothing and more cursing, plus the graying of the lines between faces and heels. That's Russo's booking in a nutshell). Austin is the exception to this rule, but his character was designed to do so. As I think Heenan asked on a WCW PPV: why is it ok for Hogan to cheat but it's not ok for *insert opponent's name here* to cheat?

Combine all of this together, and this match shows the complete unrealistic farce professional wrestling has turned into. And because the matches openly mock any attempt at realism, it makes it so much harder to suspend your disbelief and become emotionally invested in the show. It's an absolute tragedy to any real wrestling fan, who truly appreciates the art that professional wrestling used to be. And the Rey vs. HBK match tonight, did nothing more than highlight everything that is wrong in wrestling today. Make no mistake, this problem isn't limited to the WWE, their match just happened to be a shining demonstration.

You can sum up tonight's match in one word: overbooking. You had Shawn Michales and Rey Mysterio. These are two of the best wrestlers ever and they could have put on a twenty minute great match. Instead, it's overbooked to hell and the match itself is forgotten three minutes after it ends for the once a month appearnace of the world champion. That's almost insulting to the guys that just went out there and entertained the fans. Actually forget the almost part. It is insulting, because Taker will get the biggest paycheck of the three more than likely.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

This whole post can be summed up with one statement:

"Vince McMahon does not care about professional wrestling."

What I've learned over the past several years is that Vince doesn't care about the actual matches themselves. He only cares about where it's going. And he doesn't care how it gets there. The fact is, Shawn and Rey both know that they do whatever they want. You can tell during the match that they mapped out HOW they were going to get their stuff in. It's stupid. You do NOT have to get your signature move in every match. That's what made matches so great back in the golden days.

That, and the wrestlers were committed to sucking in the fans on how realistic the match and animosity is. A face doing heel tactics is the worst booking move to make. Even if it's the Undertaker, who we know can go face or heel at the drop of a hat. Tweeners don't appeal to anyone unless there's a story behind it. We know the story of the Undertaker. To address HBK AT ALL is an error on the WWE booking committee. What Undertaker did was give the kayfabe impression that he's worried about both Rey and HBK by picking their bones once incapacitated. It's idiotic. We know the Undertaker doesn't need to do that. He's the DAMN UNDERTAKER! Deadman. Which means he's not phased by challenges or promos. It was strange on how it seems like the WWE tries to build for 7 matches on a PPV in one match on a TV taping.

And the run in's. I could post for days on how run-ins are terrible in this day of modern wrestling. A run-in during the NWA days meant something. When the Horsemen ran in, they were saving Flair's title. When Dusty ran in on Tully Blanchard, it was for retribution for breaking his leg. The run-in's were meaningful and built to a bigger stage. Batista is in the Royal Rumble. So is HBK and HHH. Rey and Taker are fighting for the WWE World Heavyweight Title at the Rumble. Why have the run-in's at all? There's no reason for it. Just have a stare down to end the show. Remember those? Made me want to watch the show more. But since Taker destroyed HBK AND Rey, why bother watching the title match? Why even watch the Rumble? It's as if they're foreshadowing for something to happen. Instead of leaving the fans in suspense on what COULD happen.

It's a damn shame, and am glad you brought this to our attention, Sly. You have a way with conveying frustration. It's a gift.

 

[Checkmate]

On the subject of finishing moves:

I feel that more and more people (including the general fanbase) have come to view the WWE as a real life version of the video games they put out every fall. Thus, unless there is some insane (as to these people it would be nothing short of insane or a massive letdown) reasoning as to why a match should not end with a finisher, EVERY match should end with one. I came to this conclusion when I was attempting to explain certain moves to a friend that does not follow the product, and I compared a finisher to a "super" in a fighting genre video game.

While I felt this was a simplistic way to explain this, I later realized that this is exactly how the product is being pushed. Essentially, this also explains why matches take more than a few minutes, for in any decent match a character/wrestler/entertainer has to "build-up" his energy meter and "wear down" his opponent's health gauge to the point where his finisher is effective enough to result in a win. While this is quite the generalization, as many specifics can contradict this, it is one way to view the product now, and certainly is one way to explain the shenanigans.

On the subject of the overused Drop-Toe Hold:

Over the years, I've gotten used to several guys having more than just a finishing move, but a finishing combo. Shawn uses the Inverted Atomic Drop -> Scoop Slam -> Elbow Drop -> Tuning Up the Band set to the point where it has become synonymous with his character. In essence, why fuck with what works? He varies it up on occasion, but it draws in the attention of enough people thinking that the match might end soon. And he isn't the only one to do this. Cena does it. Triple H does it. Hell, Hulk Hogan did it too. Sure, Michaels has a bit more elongated one, but it still fits the over-the-top combo finish.

Rey's drop toe hold has always bothered me though. Sure, it is an underused move in the move set of 95% of the roster. Outside of the more ridiculous uses for it (on the outside into the steps, etc...) Rey's drop toe hold onto the second rope is just really unnecessary. I've always felt that the 619 was one of the most overrated moves in wrestling, and serves as little more than any springboard setup. But the fact that it (as a move itself) requires a setup move to do effectively nothing is quite sad. Add to this that the setup (for the setup) is a drop toe hold that requires the recipient to land with his head over the 2nd rope, and you've lost me. I've played many games over the years and one lesson that I've learned is: "Situational moves are bad." 'Nuff said.

On Taker laying everyone out:

Batista's run in was justified. Logically, he wanted Mysterio out of the title picture before Sunday. He was mad. Michaels basically told him off earlier. That apparently warrants an ass kicking. Regardless, the run in was justified.

Triple H comes to save the day. Why he needs music, I have no idea. It takes away from the realism, for reasons already stated. Whatever, Triple H is one of the Superman characters anyway. Why not give him music for his heroic rescue? I still think the fight should have been a little more back and forth to setup for the spill to the outside. Essentially Triple H whooped some ass then suicided for no reason. Another whatever moment there.

Then Taker comes in. Michaels has been abused. Rey has no head. But fuck that, Taker is badass. He wants Michaels to shut the fuck up. He wants Mysterio to be dead by Sunday. So, he drops them both...at the same time. Why not, really? I get that he is in essence a tweener. He doesn't give a shit who you are, because he is the Undertaker. However, this was just overkill.

The thing that bugged me the most of all this was that it was the main event of smackdown. As soon as it was 9:30 (EST) I knew this match wasn't finishing. Too much BS going on. If they really wanted this to happen, it should have been either a tag match, or a six man tag. Once the pin occurred, everyone could just start laying each other out. Think about it, the same spots could have happened. Batista beats up everyone. Triple H doesn't need to run in because he is already there, and he takes out Batista. Then the Undertaker closes the show as the last man standing. How hard could that be?

So, I do agree with you. What occurred was both predictable and unnecessary. Hell, I'd go as far as saying it was just downright terrible. Mysterio vs Michaels hasn't happened in a while and could have been a great match. Instead, we got a clusterfuck ending. What else is new?

 

[NSL]

This all reminds me of that now well-known phone call between Ted Turner and Vince McMahon.

Ted: I'm in the wrestling business now!

Vince: Good for you. I'm in the sports entertainment business.


The Rey v. HBK match happening on free TV was a sham in itself. The match itself wasn't entirely boring, and it served to entertain me for the final 20 minutes of the show.

But, it sucked. Rey and HBK are two of the most well known for having a specific ending to their matches, so the final 10 minutes was devoted to that set-up.

It's a bit odd to see a Cena devotee complaining like this though...

 

[HBK-aholic]

First, I really liked the reason for the match - I never thought about Mysterio's reaction to Shawn's assumption that The Undertaker was going to win, but when I think about it, it was a really good thing for them to do. Until the interference of Batista, I really loved that match as well. I loved Shawn's Sweet chin Music close to the end, which reminded me of one in his match against Shelton, although that one may have been slightly better. I'd never really been that excited about the 2 working together, but the match was exciting and full of energy. I also now see Mysterio as a more legitimate contender to The Undertaker. I still don't think he could win, but he got a good amount of attack on Shawn Michaels, and I really enjoyed watching the 2 work together.

And then we got to the end. The run-in by Batista annoyed the hell out of me. Are we setting up Shawn/Batista here? Triple H/Batista? Both possibilities make me want to shoot myself. I hate Batista, truly I do. There was absolutely no point in the whole thing. Batista should just discover some personal issues and leave for a while. I'd say get injured, but I'm not that horrible. But yeah, Batista just makes little sense to me. I've never enjoyed his work so I can't say I'm excited about what's coming, and I'm just annoyed he ruined the match.

 

[Dagger Dias]

This was even better than what I expected when you mentioned creating this thread during the Smackdown LD tonight. So.... here's what I think.

1) Professional wrestling matches never end until both wrestlers get to perform their signature moves, no matter how ridiculous the set-up to those moves may be.

I don't think that this is that big of an issue. The fans mark out for the special moves of their favorite wrestlers. While it does make finishers look weaker if someone does not kick out of one, the quick solution to this problem in my opinion would be to make it a very rare thing to see the finishers of both guys in the same match. If one hits his finisher, then that's it, game over. On PPV's or PPV quality matches they could have both guys do their finishers because then it's more believable that they could survive a finisher, it's a more important and more difficult match.

We've seen this repeatedly with Rey Mysterio, and how the only times wrestlers ever seem to lay on the second rope in wrestling any more is when they wrestle Mysterio. A wrestler who never lies on the ropes will do so three times in a Rey match. Even the most dim-witted wrestling fan (and that's saying a lot) would pick up this pattern. Take tonight for example. We saw two separate occasions of HBK lying on the second rope, we got to see the HBK nip-up and flying elbow drop, and even heard the commentators announce that combination usually resulted in HBK momentum.

Yeah, I agree that was really dumb. Even lying on the ropes once during a Rey match makes little sense when they don't lie on the ropes in any other match.

Now, think about that for a second. HBK does those moves so often (every match) that the commentators mention how regular it happens. So we're to believe that HBK allows himself to get his ass kicked for 15 minutes and THEN thinks to do a nip-up and flying elbow drop? Why the fuck would he not do it sooner? Why not just kick a guy in the face to start and be done with the match? I understand that suspension of disbelief is necessary for wrestling, but it makes it too difficult when we see the same Signature Move endings to a match every week.

They do that because the fans mark out for seeing those finishers. The audience reacts positively to it, so the federation think that's a green light to keep on doing the same thing until that reaction goes away. I myself enjoy many of the signature move endings but prefer when only one of the wrestlers hits his finisher and that ends the match, rather than see several, that's when it gets redundant.

And Rey did the same thing, and it was no more believable. First, Rey hits HBK from the corner after HBK charges him. Naturally, HBK flies away from the contact...then remembers that Rey has to do a springboard move, and so he ridiculously staggers back toward Rey to get hit. Then, coincidentally I'm sure, HBK miraculously lands on the second rope, so Rey can hit his 619 kick. But, unlike all other competitors, HBK flies back further, just so he can get his Sweet Chin Music in. The last several minutes of the match were devoted solely to getting each wrestlers Signature Moves in, and the result was a complete lack of believability in the match.

I think that on PPV that could have made more sense. Since this was on Smackdown though, it was not as important or difficult of a match. So, yes, most of that was unnecessary and only the winner needed to hit his finisher.

Whatever happened to the days when wrestlers DIDN'T have to win a match by their signature moves? What ever happened to catching a guy by surprise and pinning him? Whatever happened to just wearing an opponent out so much he couldn't continue? Anymore, if a wrestler hasn't hit their finishing maneuver (many of which are completely ridiculous, but that's a thread to be discussed later), then you know the match is not going to end. It kills the realism of a match, and takes all power out of every other wrestling move.

It's like I mentioned earlier. There are so many fans who mark out for the finishers. They are cooler looking than regular moves, and a victory resulting from a finisher looks better to many fans than someone randomly sneaking in a pin. Nowadays matches that end without a finisher might look boring to some fans, it will make them think "what, that's it?" or something like that. I see both sides of the argument here. You're very right about the match losing realism, but at the same time the wrestlers are putting on a show for their fans so the need for at least one finisher in most matches (maybe not so much on free tv though) also makes sense.

2) Run-ins occur simply for the sake of occurring and have no meaning.

Run-ins are definitely done too often. It's really getting meaningless to me as well.

We saw this in the match as well, for after a 15-20 minute grueling match, in which Rey took all sorts of punishment 2 days before the Royal Rumble, Batista decides to run into the ring to do...what? Beat on Rey and HBK a little more? How much more damage can Batista do to a guy who just wrestled a 15-20 minute grueling match and just got kicked in the head?

The Batista run in was really pointless. Rey and HBK both could have used a clean victory to have more momentum going into their matches on sunday's PPV. Complicated finishes to matches just has such little effect nowadays, they are not accomplishing much with them. Want to start or continue a feud? Do it with promos and not pointless run-ins!

Then he gets ready to whip up on Shawn Michaels...but luckily the WWE had Triple H's music queued up. Why? Who the fuck knows, HHH wrestled the first match of the night. I guess, as a precaution, the people who run the sound system just happen to get everyone's music spooled up and running. Or, maybe Triple H had made his way to the guerrilla position and told them to play his music so he could run out and save his friend. Because, as we all know, when you go to save your friend from getting beat down by a bully, you can't run out there without your music playing. Makes sense, right?

You know Triple H, he always has to make a big entrance lol.... In all seriousness though.... multiple run-ins aren't that great. They only make things more complicated. Even on a PPV this would have left me confused and possibly frustrated.

3) The existence of the "bad ass Face" completely ruin the whole purpose of professional wrestling.

Are we referring to anti-heroes like Stone Cold and The Rock here? Sure, things were great during the days when you had your superhero faces and your evil villain heels.... but the fans made their choice and the heels who get cheered too much are often turned face. In my opinion as long as I like a character, I will cheer them. If I don't like someone even if they are a face, I'm gonna boo them. I understand that anti-heroes messed up a decent formula for character feuds, but when something is popular the federation should capitalize on it, and anti-heroes were extremely popular, so many were turned face. (If I misunderstood and you meant something else, my bad.)

And finally we get to what truly disgusted me about the Rey vs. HBK match. After Triple H and Batista conveniently find themselves out of the ring (which I didn't actually have a problem with...that's one of those staging directions you tolerate for the betterment of the show), we then have the Undertaker show up in the ring.

The funny thing is, during the LD, I was just about to post "Where the heck is Taker?". He showed up the exact instant I was going to post that. I found it funny. Sorry, got a little off topic. Honestly I was just glad that Taker showed up at all.

Now, let's paint the scene. You just had Rey Mysterio, a good guy, wrestle Shawn Michaels, another good guy, for a good solid 15 or 20 minutes. Then, both guys have to face the wrath of bad guy Batista. Finally, the good guy Undertaker comes to the ring, and what does he do?

Confronted his PPV opponent (Rey) and potential Wrestlemania opponent (Michaels).... Made sense to me in terms of the current angles. What was wrong with it if you ask me is having Rey face Taker at all. It should have been Batista or another heel.

First, he picks on the helpless prey of the two faces down in the ring, Rey and HBK, which is a heel move if I've ever seen one. Then, he grabs them both by the throat and chokes them, another heel move. Just out of curiosity here, why the fuck is he even bothering with Shawn Michaels, when his match on Sunday is with Rey, and he already denied HBK another match? Then, in the ultimate act of cowardice and heelish behavior, he picks both of the incredibly weakened wrestlers up by the throat and chokeslams them to the mat. And, of course, the idiots in the crowd cheer.

Taker might have (kayfabe) denied HBK a rematch.... but WWE might still be planning on doing the match, so that's why Taker sent HBK a message alongside Rey, rather than only attacking Rey. The idiots in the crowd (you're the one who said it lol) cheered because they like Taker so much and thought it was something cool. I take it you're upset that Taker is being a tweener, and you want the guys to be 100% face or 100% heel right? I remember we have debated about something like this once before. Different fans want different things and I totally respect your opinion in being upset about Taker acting like a tweener. You don't want him to do heel actions when he's a face. Nothing wrong with that at all. That's your opinion. What's awesome though is that we all have our own opinions. Even the guys in the crowd who cheered Taker's heel actions. You might disagree with them, but they were just cheering for something they liked.

Am I the only one who sees the problem here? If your "good guys" pick off, after the match, wrestlers who have already killed each other, chokes them, and then slams them by the throat, what do your heels have to do? Use a chainsaw to cut off someone's arm? It's ridiculous. The bad ass face has run completely amok, and it's totally destroyed the very essence of pro wrestling, which begins and ends with fans wanting to see bad guys do bad things and get punished by the heroes for it. But when good guys do bad and cowardly things, how can you boo the heels for doing the same thing?

That's a very valid argument, and probably the main reason people dislike mega-faces like Cena for always doing the right thing. Fans who don't remember what things were like before the Attitude Era are so used to anti-heroes being on top that they might not accept a true face or a true heel. The WWE wants to make these fans happy by keeping some anti-heroes and tweeners around. Then they also have guys like Cena who are true faces, to please the fans who want true faces. I like both anti-heroes and true faces, so I'm happy either way.

It's absurd, and in my opinion, will be the reason that wrestling will NEVER see another boom period until the course rights itself. Until you can have a wrestler that everyone can get behind and support, because what he is doing is what everyone thinks he should be doing, most notably punishing bad people, then you can never again have the mega draw which leads a boom period.

We were really close to another boom thanks to Cena back in 2006-2007 but that didn't happen because of two things. First the Cena haters began increasing in number, and then the Benoit incident gave WWE bad publicity for a bit. All WWE can do is prepare more stars of tomorrow, give us someone we can get behind, and avoid real life controversies like the plague.

Combine all of this together, and this match shows the complete unrealistic farce professional wrestling has turned into. And because the matches openly mock any attempt at realism, it makes it so much harder to suspend your disbelief and become emotionally invested in the show. It's an absolute tragedy to any real wrestling fan, who truly appreciates the art that professional wrestling used to be. And the Rey vs. HBK match tonight, did nothing more than highlight everything that is wrong in wrestling today. Make no mistake, this problem isn't limited to the WWE, their match just happened to be a shining demonstration.

Yeah, now I see the point you were making. I don't completely agree, but it's a really valid argument.

My apologies for the very long opening post, but it was all needed. Feel free to give your opinions on what I wrote, not what you think is actually wrong with wrestling today. Address my comments...I'm not interested in hearing what YOU think is wrong with wrestling today.

I did. If you still disagree then I'd be willing to debate this.

 

[X]

What the hell is your point here Sly? Complaining that wrestling is unrealistic because people like Rey always get their certain spots and moves into their matches? Welcome to wrestling. Have you never seen a Bret Hart or Hulk Hogan match before? Shawn Michaels? All of the greats had their own routine of moves they'd try to fit into every match. How is this a problem? I seriously just don't get what you're complaining about here, it was a TV match, and you have a problem with it being formulaic? Hello, that's sort of the fucking point of most TV matches? They're free, why are they going to give you a bunch of awesome matches for free? Just be happy they throw us a bone every few weeks and deliver a solid PPV quality match on free TV.

This match in question? Wasn't bad. Wasn't good either, but it wasn't bad. It was your typical TV main event with a DQ finish. For someone who I know has watched a shitload of wrestling, you sure seem to have found the oddest thing to criticize here.

 

[Melina]

I disagree with all three points, but respectfully.

As much as I would have liked to see a winner, I think the best route to make both look totally credible going into the Rumble was to do the finish as written. The only thing I don't like about it is Punk not going over HHH since he had backup.

As it relates to the whole run-in thing with music. They normally use that as a distraction tool. They take the cameras and the attention off of the ring, either to move workers, or to set something else up. Normally they just do run-ins without music, but I can see why they would do this to help something come across better on television.

Now to your point about the Undertaker. I think doing that is way better than him being some vanilla face. Instead of going there and helping out, and shaking there hands, or whatever, he goes down to the ring and chokeslams his two rivals. Makes perfect sense to me, and helps to identify a little more of what the Royal Rumble PPV itself is all about.

Just my opinion and many may disagree, but I like the fact that you posted a very intricate point of view, even though I disagree with it.