i mean if you look at some of the past champions that were alevated to the next level because of that title, theres to many to list but google em...now if you win it yay you won a title...then you lose it...then you fall in a hole never to be heard of again ( not really some get elevated but most do not) the announcers still talk about it as if it is a honor to hold it, which it is dont get me wrong but its not the steping stone it used to be. what do yo think? has the IC title lost its prestige or what?
Has the IC title lost its prestige?
- Thread starter Raven
- Start date
#hamler
That's all folks.
In a way, yes it has lost a lot of it's prestige. I mean guys like Santino or Drew MacIntyre will never amount to the things Shawn Michaels, Brett Hart, Triple H, Mr. Perfect or even Honky Tonk Man did. The reigns have been a bit short. And handing the Intercontinental Title to guys just to try and build them up has forced a lot of the prestige away from the title belt. I believe around the time the WWE got rid of it back in 2003 or whatever year it was, it lost a lot of its prestige.
However, nowadays the WWE is doing a phenomenal job of bring predtige back to their titles. Daniel Bryan holding the US title is an example of that. He's putting on great matches week after week along with Dolph Ziggler. Dolph has worked very well with Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston and even Kaval. Dolph is really bringing the prestige back to the belt. His title reign has already lasted a good while. And its not even getting old or boring. I look forward to a Intercontinental Championship match which is more than I can say for previous reigns as the mid card champ. In my eyes, its still a worker's title and its still prestigous.
However, nowadays the WWE is doing a phenomenal job of bring predtige back to their titles. Daniel Bryan holding the US title is an example of that. He's putting on great matches week after week along with Dolph Ziggler. Dolph has worked very well with Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston and even Kaval. Dolph is really bringing the prestige back to the belt. His title reign has already lasted a good while. And its not even getting old or boring. I look forward to a Intercontinental Championship match which is more than I can say for previous reigns as the mid card champ. In my eyes, its still a worker's title and its still prestigous.
silverwraith720
Occasional Pre-Show
I have to agree with Hamler. I was thinking the other day about who will eventually take the title from Ziggler, but frankly, I don't care. He had a fantastic feud with Kofi Kingston a few months back. Yes, he kept getting DQ wins, but for a heel, it works. Before he had the belt, I thought he was just another low-card nobody who is facing getting cut. While I don't necessarily think he will go on to be a huge star, he's at least putting on good matches, one (hopefully more) lengthy feud, longer matches, and has had a long run.
Honkey_Kong
Championship Contender
I remember leading up to Wrestlemania 6, the IC title in my mind was nearly on par with the WWF title. But that was more or less because of who the champs were. Look back in the day, you had guys like Randy Savage, Pedro Morales, Don Muraco, Tito Santana, Rick Rude, The Warrior, etc holding the title while they were in their prime and established.
After the tournament where Perfect won the title, it changed roles. It was to bring wrestlers that needed that national champion level exposure in order to be the upper mid-card/main event guys.
But then the title transformed again after the title was reinstated post the unification with the WHC and really has just been a tool to try to generate interest in guys that nobody would be interested in otherwise. And occasionally they strap the IC title on main eventers when they don't have anything for them to do. It really doesn't have any prestige anymore at all. It's just something shinny for somebody to carry in hopes that you'd care about them.
After the tournament where Perfect won the title, it changed roles. It was to bring wrestlers that needed that national champion level exposure in order to be the upper mid-card/main event guys.
But then the title transformed again after the title was reinstated post the unification with the WHC and really has just been a tool to try to generate interest in guys that nobody would be interested in otherwise. And occasionally they strap the IC title on main eventers when they don't have anything for them to do. It really doesn't have any prestige anymore at all. It's just something shinny for somebody to carry in hopes that you'd care about them.
onewayleeway69
Pre-Show Stalwart
No it hasnt and never will. I'm sick all the net geeks saying stuff like this week in and week out! It cant "loose its prestige" as you put because of the names that have held the belt! End ov! no matter who has it now no matter who has it next week that belt has had legandery names hold it and will always be the level its at now.Show some respect...
bigbootydaddyV
arrogant bastard
the problem isn't as much who holds it but rather the attention it's given these days... half the time I don't even know who the IC champ is even if they are in a match because they barely mention it. They need to have a real feud over it and give whoever is the champ a run to give it some cred back... usually the IC title had the better "wrestlers" and the WC was the money guy. They are somewhat doing it with the US championship and having DB have it, but again, you barely realize he's a champ because it's just in the background.
Flex Cavana
Dark Match Jobber
To an extent it has.
Both the Ic & the Us titles seem to just be used to give new guys a quick run of momentum rather than be used to say your the best mid carder on the roster which puts guys like Christian into meaningliss fill up feuds.
So to the younger generation it may not have as much credibility to those of us who seen the reigns of Bret, Ultimate Warrior & Mr Perfect etc.
But periods where Rey & Jericho were IC champions last year gives them a notion of it's prestige.
And at the minute the IC title is doing a great job of elevating Ziggler to a greater level, therfore still serving it's purpose.
Both the Ic & the Us titles seem to just be used to give new guys a quick run of momentum rather than be used to say your the best mid carder on the roster which puts guys like Christian into meaningliss fill up feuds.
So to the younger generation it may not have as much credibility to those of us who seen the reigns of Bret, Ultimate Warrior & Mr Perfect etc.
But periods where Rey & Jericho were IC champions last year gives them a notion of it's prestige.
And at the minute the IC title is doing a great job of elevating Ziggler to a greater level, therfore still serving it's purpose.
The Intercontinental title, together with the WCW US and TV titles, lost their prestige in the Attitude Era. Before the Attitude Era, long world title reigns were the norm. So the Intercontinental title was comparable to the Smackdown title today--not the top prize, but an achievement in itself, something a wrestler would be proud of, a career highlight.
With the Attitude Era, the world title was within the reach of all of the top wrestlers in the company. In fact, after the Attitude Era, if you weren't a world champion, you weren't a top wrestler. The Intercontinental title became a stepping-stone to being a world title contender, rather than a prize in itself.
Since the Attitude Era, we've had a lot of Intercontinental champions who either never reach the world title--Goldust, Marc Mero, Road Dogg, Jeff Jarrett, Ken Shamrock, Val Venis, the Godfather, DLo Brown, Rikishi, Billy Gunn, Albert, Lance Storm, Test, William Regal, Shelton Benjamin, Carlito, Christian--or only reach the world title years and years after their first IC title--Benoit, Guerrero, JEff Hardy, Edge, RVD, probably Morrison. There have also been IC champions who won world titles quickly like Randy Orton, or who won the IC title soon after world title reigns--HHH, KAne, Booker, Jericho.
So yes, the IC title has lost its prestige from the days in which it was one of two singles titles in WWF, and titles changed hands only a few times a year.
As for the argument that the IC title has prestige because of all the hall-of-famers who wore the title in the past, I don't think that holds water. Sure, the 1980s IC title was a big deal. But that's not the IC title in 2010. Imagine that baseball had a Minor League Player of the Year award. The list of winners would have every Hall of Famer on it--but it would also have a lot of busts who failed in the major leagues. That's the IC title today--a right of passage for every candidate for main event status, some succeed and some fail.
You can't bring "prestige" back, unless you return to championships only changing hands 2-3 times a year at most. What you could do, is put attention on the IC/US titles by implementing a rule that allowed an IC champ to challenge for the world title if he reached a certain milestone--4 months as IC champ, 20 successful defenses, wins over 10 different challengers, etc. The countdown adds drama, and the promos for the challenger and the champion write themselves--the belt is a highway to the top of the WWE.
With the Attitude Era, the world title was within the reach of all of the top wrestlers in the company. In fact, after the Attitude Era, if you weren't a world champion, you weren't a top wrestler. The Intercontinental title became a stepping-stone to being a world title contender, rather than a prize in itself.
Since the Attitude Era, we've had a lot of Intercontinental champions who either never reach the world title--Goldust, Marc Mero, Road Dogg, Jeff Jarrett, Ken Shamrock, Val Venis, the Godfather, DLo Brown, Rikishi, Billy Gunn, Albert, Lance Storm, Test, William Regal, Shelton Benjamin, Carlito, Christian--or only reach the world title years and years after their first IC title--Benoit, Guerrero, JEff Hardy, Edge, RVD, probably Morrison. There have also been IC champions who won world titles quickly like Randy Orton, or who won the IC title soon after world title reigns--HHH, KAne, Booker, Jericho.
So yes, the IC title has lost its prestige from the days in which it was one of two singles titles in WWF, and titles changed hands only a few times a year.
As for the argument that the IC title has prestige because of all the hall-of-famers who wore the title in the past, I don't think that holds water. Sure, the 1980s IC title was a big deal. But that's not the IC title in 2010. Imagine that baseball had a Minor League Player of the Year award. The list of winners would have every Hall of Famer on it--but it would also have a lot of busts who failed in the major leagues. That's the IC title today--a right of passage for every candidate for main event status, some succeed and some fail.
You can't bring "prestige" back, unless you return to championships only changing hands 2-3 times a year at most. What you could do, is put attention on the IC/US titles by implementing a rule that allowed an IC champ to challenge for the world title if he reached a certain milestone--4 months as IC champ, 20 successful defenses, wins over 10 different challengers, etc. The countdown adds drama, and the promos for the challenger and the champion write themselves--the belt is a highway to the top of the WWE.
TheAbsolute1
Fuck Rep
No it has not. Look at the champ, he's the best IC champion since Chris Jericho. He's also the best IC champion to get his first reign since...Chris Jericho, but that was in 2000. So basically we're looking at the best first title run in a decade, we should be proud to witness this. IMO, a title will only lose it's prestige if the title holder is undesirable, like Hornswoggle with the Cruiserweight title. Dolph has a long reign ahead of him and he will hold the IC title in high regards 'till he drops it. My prediction is that there will be a unification match to unify the US and IC titles(of course it will remain the IC, since the US originated from AWA or NWA I'm not entirely sure) and Dolph will win, i believe so because he lost all the other matches against Bryan and also he works as a much better champion. But take nothing away from Daniel Bryan. So when unified, that will add even more prestige to an already prestigious IC championship. IMO of course.
Honkey_Kong
Championship Contender
Except for the fact that in the 1980's the IC Title wasn't really a Minor League Player of The Year award. If you want to use the baseball analogy, it is the PCL of wrestling titles. Because it was almost on par with the WWE title in the 80's in prestige, just not quite at that level though. The IC Champ according to the announcers in the 80's was the #1 contender to the WWE title. They just had their own commitments so they couldn't pursue the WWE title. I can still remember Jesse Ventura saying that over and over again on Superstars of Wrestling.
I will give Ziggler and Danielson credit though. They both make the title worth more than it has recently been worth, because they both put on good matches. Matches that a world champion SHOULD be able to put on.
I think it has lost prestige in the way people look at it. Times change and so do things revolving around time. Every title that has ever been called a "Championship" in some way is rumored to have lost it's prestige.
So, in the negative way that wrestling is viewed by it's own fans I would still say no it has not.
Being The Intercontinental Champion still means the same.
It still basically serves the same purpose as it always has. A lot of big names from the past as well as big names currently working in WWE has held that title. It is used to push someone that is in the mid card that is on his way up.
Sure it has had down spots to it's history, but most things do. I think Ziggler has done a great job representing the title and has restored some of the title's glory days in to people's memories.
I think WWE knows that the IC title had lost a bit of it's prestige in fans' and critic's eyes, in the "Attitude Era" and have focused well over the last year or so, in giving a name back to the belt.
So, in the negative way that wrestling is viewed by it's own fans I would still say no it has not.
Being The Intercontinental Champion still means the same.
It still basically serves the same purpose as it always has. A lot of big names from the past as well as big names currently working in WWE has held that title. It is used to push someone that is in the mid card that is on his way up.
Sure it has had down spots to it's history, but most things do. I think Ziggler has done a great job representing the title and has restored some of the title's glory days in to people's memories.
I think WWE knows that the IC title had lost a bit of it's prestige in fans' and critic's eyes, in the "Attitude Era" and have focused well over the last year or so, in giving a name back to the belt.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
You're going to have shit champions with shit reigns pop up every now and then in the lineage of every title. There are also going to be times in which you look a certain champs and automatically compare them to champions past and find them coming up short.
In many cases, the IWC as a whole has very unrealistic and idealistic expectations when it comes to wrestling. How the IWC views champions and championship reigns is among the most unrealistic. For example, I've read a lot of posts here comparing past IC champs and, in most cases, the past will simply always outweigh the present because of the memories generated by remembering the past. Many of us here grew up on Randy Savage or Ricky Steamboat or HBK or whomever as IC champ and the nostalgia we feel looking back on those great memories, to some degree, clouds the way things really were. Not every feud for the IC title was an epic with Randy Savage was the champ, nor was every match an all time classic when HBK has a run.
Relatively short reigns with the IC title have also been common throughout its existence, particilarly as television has become more and more important to pro wrestling. Since April 1990, there have only been 20 IC title reigns last 100 days or more, 5 of those reigns have occurred during the past 3 years. Long reigns were especially scares during the IWC's precious and revered Attitude Era. There was only a single 100+ day run with the title during the AE and it was Ken Shamrock of all people.
The IC title still holds a lot of prestige generally speaking because it's still often seen as a jumping point in many cases. I think that Dolph Ziggler has done a fantastic job as IC champion. I can't remember the last time that I've seen a mid-card title wrestled for on free tv more than when Dolph Ziggler has been the champ. As to comments made towards not remembering who the IC champ is as they don't hear it mentioned on tv, you might not have such a problem if you watch SmackDown!. Ziggler is shown almost every week doing one thing or another. The WWE is divided up into brands now and if you only watch Raw, then you're going to be left in the dark as to SD! because neither Raw or SD! go into many details when discussing one another.
In many cases, the IWC as a whole has very unrealistic and idealistic expectations when it comes to wrestling. How the IWC views champions and championship reigns is among the most unrealistic. For example, I've read a lot of posts here comparing past IC champs and, in most cases, the past will simply always outweigh the present because of the memories generated by remembering the past. Many of us here grew up on Randy Savage or Ricky Steamboat or HBK or whomever as IC champ and the nostalgia we feel looking back on those great memories, to some degree, clouds the way things really were. Not every feud for the IC title was an epic with Randy Savage was the champ, nor was every match an all time classic when HBK has a run.
Relatively short reigns with the IC title have also been common throughout its existence, particilarly as television has become more and more important to pro wrestling. Since April 1990, there have only been 20 IC title reigns last 100 days or more, 5 of those reigns have occurred during the past 3 years. Long reigns were especially scares during the IWC's precious and revered Attitude Era. There was only a single 100+ day run with the title during the AE and it was Ken Shamrock of all people.
The IC title still holds a lot of prestige generally speaking because it's still often seen as a jumping point in many cases. I think that Dolph Ziggler has done a fantastic job as IC champion. I can't remember the last time that I've seen a mid-card title wrestled for on free tv more than when Dolph Ziggler has been the champ. As to comments made towards not remembering who the IC champ is as they don't hear it mentioned on tv, you might not have such a problem if you watch SmackDown!. Ziggler is shown almost every week doing one thing or another. The WWE is divided up into brands now and if you only watch Raw, then you're going to be left in the dark as to SD! because neither Raw or SD! go into many details when discussing one another.
El Rev sXe
If you have ghosts...
Of course not. You don't need to have a 543296 days title reign in order to have "prestige", just look at Miz's title reign.
I think that both US and IC championships aren't anymore the stepping stone. If someone wins either of these two titles, you're not sure that the guy holding the title is the next WHC. Being that said, without Miz and Mcintyre, the titles have become a lot more interesting. Dolph Ziggler has been kicking some serious ass for the last couple of months.
Im always looking up to the next match for Ziggler. The guy showed he can be a rock solid mid carder. And for me that's the point of the IC and US titles now, the biggest prize for a mid carder.
I think that both US and IC championships aren't anymore the stepping stone. If someone wins either of these two titles, you're not sure that the guy holding the title is the next WHC. Being that said, without Miz and Mcintyre, the titles have become a lot more interesting. Dolph Ziggler has been kicking some serious ass for the last couple of months.
Im always looking up to the next match for Ziggler. The guy showed he can be a rock solid mid carder. And for me that's the point of the IC and US titles now, the biggest prize for a mid carder.
you guys! im not saying it has lost its prestige by people holding it that didnt deserve it , im saying the WWE doesnt give it much attetion it hasnt been defended in like 2 PPVs (im probally wrong but IDC) and WWE treat it like a mid-card title when it used to be just below if not on the same level as the WWF championship thats what i mean when i say its lost its prestige
Prestige to me dose not involve long title reigns, but who WANTS to hold that title, and Since Kofi's IC Championship run, and The Miz's overall U.S. Championship run I think they have done a great job at presenting both mid-card titles, and they have taken it to the next level with Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan. I think both Kofi and the Miz gave the titles an air of credability because they were both viewed as "the next main event talent".. They were seen as credible contendor's, and now with Jack Swagger in the mix I think it gives the IC title especially even more credibility. As for the U.S. Title Dainel Bryan has defended it against The Current WWE champ The Miz, John Morrison, and Ted Dibaise .. All of these men have been upper-midcard players at some point in the last year. The Titles are both regualarly defended, but not defended with no backround or reason. It's not like Kofi Kingston's U.S. Championship reign in 08 where he was aimlessly defending it against any random person they could throw him in the ring with.. There are mid-card storyline's and the match's that happens people actually care about again.
I think in the last year they have completly rebuilt the credability of both the IC and the US championship's. There really isn't a week that goes by without the mid-card title's not having some sort of storyline.. Hell the worst either one of the reigns has been is Dainel Bryans current Dibiasie Feud, which wasn't bad in itself.. It just is time to end it (Which I fully expect them to do tonight by highlighting a new contendor)
The main thing is these guys are given actual story's, and someone is actually focusing on them. The people they have had holding the belt actually feel like they would be on TV with or without the title.
I think what hurts a title's prestige is a run like the Hart Dynasty had with the Tag Championships. It just didn't feel like without those Tag-championships they would be doing anything but matchs on Superstars every thursday. The Biggest factor in prestige is who WANTS the belts, I mean if next week they booked John Cena vs Randy Orton for the U.S. Championship in my mind it would have as much prestige as any championship in the comapny, simply because those are the top two talents in the WWE right now and if they both want the U.S. Title it must be the title highlighting the top talent in the WWE. In the end it's all about the superstar's who want the title, not the title itself. It's only important as the people who want it, and care about it..
I think in the last year they have completly rebuilt the credability of both the IC and the US championship's. There really isn't a week that goes by without the mid-card title's not having some sort of storyline.. Hell the worst either one of the reigns has been is Dainel Bryans current Dibiasie Feud, which wasn't bad in itself.. It just is time to end it (Which I fully expect them to do tonight by highlighting a new contendor)
The main thing is these guys are given actual story's, and someone is actually focusing on them. The people they have had holding the belt actually feel like they would be on TV with or without the title.
I think what hurts a title's prestige is a run like the Hart Dynasty had with the Tag Championships. It just didn't feel like without those Tag-championships they would be doing anything but matchs on Superstars every thursday. The Biggest factor in prestige is who WANTS the belts, I mean if next week they booked John Cena vs Randy Orton for the U.S. Championship in my mind it would have as much prestige as any championship in the comapny, simply because those are the top two talents in the WWE right now and if they both want the U.S. Title it must be the title highlighting the top talent in the WWE. In the end it's all about the superstar's who want the title, not the title itself. It's only important as the people who want it, and care about it..
No it hasn't. Dolph Ziggler has been good at defending it both legitimately as well as in a bit of heelish way. He's been acting firmly as a champion, and he gets a lot of general on-screen time. He's been fairly impressive as a champion in the past 5-6 months time, and I'd say that should be more than enough to prove that it hasn't lost prestige.
WWE has been fairly good at building some prestige around the belt again, especially around building Dolph Ziggler as a great champion in the Intercontinental championship division, which automatically brings a bit of legitimacy and honor around being the champion again when you have a guy holding it for the length, and defending it so well as Dolph has been doing.
WWE has been fairly good at building some prestige around the belt again, especially around building Dolph Ziggler as a great champion in the Intercontinental championship division, which automatically brings a bit of legitimacy and honor around being the champion again when you have a guy holding it for the length, and defending it so well as Dolph has been doing.
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