Has Grunge become "Classic Rock?!"

[IrishCanadian25]

I spent my morning commute listening to Sirius Radio's "Lithium" channel, which is for 90's alt rock and grunge. They generally have some really good stuff on there - loads of Alice in Chains, Smashing Pumpkins, etc. The stuff I had on K-Rock while in High School and all.

And they begged the question - Grunge is now essentially 20 years old (older than many members of these forums!), so has it become classic rock?

I recall about 2 years ago, the first time I heard Pearl Jam's "Jeremy" on Q104.3, a NY Classic Rock station. I was shocked - not quite offended, but just amazed.

So I ask - has Grunge officially made it into the "classic rock" category along side Hair Metal (Motley Crue, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi) and the litany of rockers who came before? Is Grunge not quite there yet? Can Grunge EVER be considered classic rock? And if so, which bands / artists can be considered "classic rock artists" from the grunge era?

 

[Alex]

Well I don't like the term Grunge because all the bands sounded different but anyway..


You could say that they are Classic Rock, many 'Grunge' bands greatly influenced other muscians and you could say they were some of the defining music of the 90s. They were what the youth listened to, like Punk in the 70s, they influenced culture in so many ways (clothing, attitude) and were only around for five years seeing as how most of the major bands had broken up or were inactive (Nirvana, Alice In Chains, Soundgarden etc) or didn't have the impact they once did (Pearl Jam)

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Unfortunately, yes. I grew up dreading this day/age when the "oldies" stations would be playing what I grew up listening to because I knew it'd meant I'd reached the point of no return (fully developed adulthood), but to answer the question again – yes, it has.

The influx isn't severe yet, but Stone Temple Pilots, Pearl Jam and a few others have absolutely infiltrated the older rock stations, and Nirvana, Soundgarden and more will surely follow suit at some point in time within the next few years, I'd imagine.

Hard to believe Smells Like Teen Spirit debuted in 1991 – almost two decades ago.

 

[D-Man]

Obviously, this is in the eye of the beholder. But, I really didn't know how to rate it, so I flipped to Wikipedia which said:

Classic rock was originally conceived as a radio station programming format which developed from the album-oriented rock (AOR) format in the early 1980s. In the United States, this rock music format now features a large playlist of songs ranging from the 1960s and 1970s. Classic rock production ceased on December 31st, 1979 with the transition into 1980s Hair Metal. Some stations continue to include a limited number of current releases.

The classic rock stations re-create the sound of album oriented rock stations of the 60s-70s (although usually with a much more limited playlist) and appeal mainly to adults, rather than teenagers. Some classic-rock stations also play a limited number of current releases which are stylistically consistent with the station's sound, or from established classic rock artists that are still producing new albums.

Classic rock in recent years has been expanded to include glam metal and progressive rock acts. These artists are often put on "late classic rock" stations (such as XM Classic Rewind) while the more traditional artists are put on "early classic rock" stations (such as XM Classic Vinyl).

I'm pulling the "bullshit card" here.

The way I always knew it, Rock has many different genres. First and foremost, there was its creation given the name "Rock and Roll" made popular by stars such as Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, and the Beatles. Then, the genre lead by Black Sabbath, Led Zepplin, and Deep Purple kicked in and a whole new sound was created; it was originally labeled as "Heavy Metal." But "Heavy Metal" was split into many subdivisions such as "Death Metal", "Punk Rock" and "New Wave", broadening the category even further. Because of this, years later, all of those subdivisions of "Heavy Metal" needed to be summed up in a more broadened category. And since many years had passed and the music because somewhat outdated/obsolete, it began to fall under one large umbrella called "Classic Rock." Later on, just as Wikipedia stated above, the "Heavy Metal" genre sort of ended and expanded in the 1980's and "Hair Metal" was created. And here is where my argument begins...

It seemed as if a new category of rock emerged in the 1990's, but it didn't fall under the subdivision of "Grunge". Rather, it's more fitting name was "Alternative". As far as I'm concerned, "Alternative" was the next step beyond "Classic Rock." Both of these categories summed up many subdivisions of their respective genres and should always be kept separately. Especially because an entirely new set of subdivisions of rock were created once the new millennium kicked in.

Therefore, soon after the end of the millennium, a new influx of MANY different types of rock were created. Between "Emo", "Progressive", "New Age", "Contemporary", and "Post-Punk" rock, Alternative had seen its end. These new subdivisions needed their own umbrella the likes of "Classic Rock" and "Alternative", so record companies began referring to it simply as "New Millennium" rock. How original...

And here we are; present day 2010. Now if you look back at the timeline I provided, you'll see that the only subdivision of rock that was lacking an "umbrella" was Hair Metal. And since it was produced at the tail end of the "Classic Rock" era and it's time has long-since run its course, I completely agree that it should fall under the "Classic Rock" umbrella. However, that's where it should stop. Now, all forms of rock of the past have their own umbrellas.

This brings me to "Grunge". Like I stated earlier, Grunge falls under the umbrella of "Alternative". There is no need to shift things any further. When the average listener hears the words "Alternative Rock", they immediately think of Grunge rock. That is the purpose of giving Alternative its own place in the history of rock. It easily categorizes the movement of that time period and doesn't need to be shifted.

Hopefully, my explanation was clear. And if it wasn't, I'll sum it up for you.

I firmly believe that in no way, shape, or form should Grunge fall under any category besides Alternative. It should not be associated with the golden ages and development of rock and roll. "Alternative" is the most comfortable fit for its music and that's exactly where it belongs.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

D-Man, interesting synopsis, but I have to adjust your timeline. "Progressive" rock has been around since the 1970's with acts such as "Yes," "Rush," and the original Peter Gabriel-led "Genesis." Also, it extended into "Progressive Metal" with such acts at "Savatage," "Stratovarious," "Dream Theatre," and the holiday faves "Trans-Siberian Orchestra." Prog Rock is more "classic" than Hair / Glam Metal.

To me, "classic rock" is like a state of reverence into which music "semi-retires." It's not a genre you "are," but rather a status you "earn." I have a post coming up relatively soon that will examine this deeper.

 

[D-Man]

D-Man, interesting synopsis, but I have to adjust your timeline. "Progressive" rock has been around since the 1970's with acts such as "Yes," "Rush," and the original Peter Gabriel-led "Genesis." Also, it extended into "Progressive Metal" with such acts at "Savatage," "Stratovarious," "Dream Theatre," and the holiday faves "Trans-Siberian Orchestra." Prog Rock is more "classic" than Hair / Glam Metal.

Very true, but it's also had its share of different forms over the years. The same goes for Punk and Indie rock. Both of those genres were basically re-vamped as the new time period kicked in and viewed as brand new again. That's pretty much what I was insinuating.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I had a feeling this thread would inevitably become the "we're old / dating ourselves" corner. But I'm 28, grew up on this music, and I'm game to play. Let me just say:

Nirvana- Classic rock, but in a limited capacity. "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is absolutely classic rock. So are "Lithium," "Dumb," and "Heart Shaped Box." I refuse to accept that songs such as "Rape Me" are classic rock, as they cannot receive a great deal of play regardless just because of the shock value associated with them.

Pearl Jam- Absolutely classic rock, especially the album "Ten." That album, and as a result, the band, signified the new era had arrived and was undisputedly mainstream. I would define these guys as "classic rock" before any of the other "grunge" acts.

Soundgarden- Also on the "bubble," but I still consider them "Classic Rock" at this point. Maybe just barely, though, since they weren't as longevitous as some other acts.

 

[Supernova]

I don't think the popularity of the band matters, I always confined classic rock to any rock music before the 80' (not counting the first wave of punk). So anything like Led Zep, Deep Purple, Cream or even Yes or Pink Floyd. But a band like Guns n' Roses isn't really because they came later, as did Metallica etc.

 

[Green Thunder]

To me it really all depends on who you're talking about. Guys like Alice and Chains, Nirvana, and SoundGarden definetly fall into the classic category. On the other hand, there are some grunge bands still out there, and I don't think that they get to be called classic just because they fall into the grunge catagory.

 

[Nitafrong]

I would agree with you that quite a bit of Grunge definatly will become Classic rock or perhaps is already near to becoming it. Really I don't think the message of the music or even to some extent its style matters as long as it was popular. At one point, Elvis, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd were all considered contraversial- all the preserve of teenagers and young adults. They also encompass a variety of different styles- definately at the time- though they may not seem that dissimilar to us now. As you get older though- your generation tends to hold on to the music of its youth- as people become less inclined to look for new music- and less tolerant to listening to musically foreign genre's.

I have heard the Sex Pistols played on classic rock stations over here- its never a common song, more of random surprise I think- but the fact that a song that was that divisive, the polar opposite to classic rock at the time- can now be acceptable to listen to with some fondness is a significant sign. Master of Puppets is fast becoming a similar song- already it is viewed as a classic song by the youth, same for Killing in the Name Of. Time waits for no man or his music.