Has Ambrose flopped as a main event face?

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

Dean Ambrose has always been the guy that fans wanted to be pushed in two consecutive Wrestlemanias at the main event, instead of Roman Reigns.

Wrestlemania 31, fans wanted Ziggler, or Ambrose, or Bryan to win. They didn't want Roman, because he "wasn't ready" and that "Daniel Bryan deserves a solid run as a champion".

Wrestlemania 32 again fans wanted Ambrose to win the Rumble. Then they wanted him to beat Triple at Roadblock. Then they wanted Ambrose vs Lesnar to be for the title.

And finally Dean Ambrose won the big one at Money In The Bank..

Here's my problem with Dean though. In every big test he had, he somewhat failed to raise the odds. His match with Lesnar at Wrestlemania was not what we expected it to be, his programm with Jericho was not what we expect it to be. The shield triple threat really didn't steal any show and definately won't go down as the most talked or the best triple threat match in history as some people thought it would be. His match with Ziggler at Summerslam was ok and now he will most likely drop the belt to AJ Styles at the coming month, or maybe, in 5 days.

Dean Ambrose was great as a chaser. He was great as an IC Champ. But what I'm seeing here (and this is a problem with the whole New Era), from the moment one talent wins the world title, they stop progressing. Like that. Dean Ambrose? He's the same guy he was one year ago only with a title on his shoulders.

And that goes for everybody. What progress or difference has Rollins or Reings showed since last year? Nothing much.

If you're not getting what I'm talking about let me set some examples.
Daniel Bryan: 2011-2012-2013. Compare those years of Bryan and you will se something, you will se evolution.
The Rock: 1998-1999-2000-2001. The Rock went from rookie to main eventer to main attraction to one of the greatest of all time, in 4 years! Every year The Rock reached a new level a new high point.
Edge: 2006-2007-2008. You get the point.
Cena: 2005-2006-2007.

The list can go on and on. However, the talents of the New Era do not follow suit. Roman Reigns really didn't bring anything more to the table from Wrestlemania 31 to Wrestlemania 32 and he still doesn't.
Ambrose only gained more popularity.

What I am saying is that, it feels like those guys peak the moment they become world champions and never get any bigger after that. It can't be only me who is seeing that.

And that's exactly how I feel about Ambrose as well, mostly due to the fact that everybody wanted him to get the keys and not Roman. His title reign has been forgettable really, he lacked a big feud.
But he also had chances with big feuds when feuding with Lesnar and Y2J.

So, am I seeing things? What's the problem here?

 

[Dave]

He didn't flop in my opinion. But that's simply due to the fact that I expected his title run to be the utter shits. And so far, it has actually gone above and beyond my terribly low expectations. It is no secret that I rate Dean Ambrose lower that most on the WWE roster. I actually think that his title run was nothing more than paying lip service to the fans. I don't think that Ambrose was ready for the championship, or does he deserve it.

In saying that, his feud with Ziggler was okay and I'm sure AJ will try and bring something out in him. But if he is to lose the championship to AJ at Backlash, and I personally hope he does, then I don't think he will have flopped in my eyes. In the eyes of his fans then I'm sure they would have had bigger plans and higher expectations. That's their loss.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Dean Ambrose just isn't main event quality. The only one of the former Shield members to have the tools to be a main eventer is Seth Rollins. Ambrose doesn't have the in-ring ability, he doesn't have the charisma, he doesn't have good ring psychology, and he's got one of the worst movesets of any "main event" wrestler in history. His rebound clothesline in particular is so dumb and nonsensical that it rivals The Worm as one of the least believable moves in wrestling. But the biggest problem is Ambrose's cartoonish facial expressions and ridiculous over-acting. The fun of wrestling for me is the suspension of disbelief, being able to temporarily forget that what I'm seeing is staged. Dean Ambrose DESTROYS the illusion of anything being legitimate. He turns wrestling into a Looney Toons skit, and I despise him for that.

 

[S.J. Maximus]

I'm not exactly sure who was calling for him to walk out of the last two WrestleManias as World Champ but I will admit that the majority of IWC called him the breakout star of the Shield for years.

I honestly was never on that boat, I thought his mic skills were decent and that his in-ring ability was wildly overrated. 2016, however, is a unique year because it is literally the only calendar year that they treated him like someone special. A classic IC title match, a WWE Title match vs Hunter, a WrestleMania Showdown vs Brock, a Money in the Bank win and successful cash-in - there is not a single wrestler on the roster who has had a better 2016, including Roman Reigns.

There is also no denying that with all the injuries and the "X-Pac Heat" on Roman Reigns Dean Ambrose was the unquestioned most popular wrestler in the company for at least Jan-April. The Lesnar match started a weird path where he began severely underperforming in the ring. The IC match in Jan was a classic, the match in Feb vs HHH was above par, but literally every other singles outing he has had has been mediocre. Regardless of his match quality though, he has remained very over with the fans and that's the main reason I'm arguing he has not flopped.

Does he seem like the top guy in the company? Not really, to be honest he barely seems like the top guy on his own show, but I don't think that's his fault. Despite all they did to make SD watchable I think it was very clear that they still treat it as the B show and give RAW the top acts in each division. As soon as they announced a Universal title it immediately demoted the WWE title to 2nd rate and that was proven by how much earlier the WWE title was defended on SummerSlam compared to the Universal title. While Seth got to face a fresh up and comer in Finn Balor, Ambrose was forced to work with Ziggler who literally hasn't won a big match in 3 years let alone been seen as main event talent. It's almost as if Creative wants him to fail, but to Ambrose's credit he continues to get one of the biggest reactions on SD so as long as that continues I can't call him a flop. There have been much, much worse at the top of the mountain (Jack Swagger, Sheamus 2009, Del Rio 2011-2013, Great Khali 2007-2008, I won't put Miz cause he actually got a reaction in 2011).

 

[Y 2 Jake]

The dude is on Smackdown and he was given Ziggler instead of Cena or Styles at SummerSlam. They are the two main stars on that brand and they should've inserted Ambrose into that feud for at least one PPV.

I can't stand Ambrose but he's received typical WWE booking where they put the title on somebody popular but who isn't their guy. Like having Bryan feud with Kane or whatever the fuck it was they did with Mysterio.

 

[tak161]

Dean Ambrose just isn't main event quality. The only one of the former Shield members to have the tools to be a main eventer is Seth Rollins. Ambrose doesn't have the in-ring ability, he doesn't have the charisma, he doesn't have good ring psychology, and he's got one of the worst movesets of any "main event" wrestler in history. His rebound clothesline in particular is so dumb and nonsensical that it rivals The Worm as one of the least believable moves in wrestling. But the biggest problem is Ambrose's cartoonish facial expressions and ridiculous over-acting. The fun of wrestling for me is the suspension of disbelief, being able to temporarily forget that what I'm seeing is staged. Dean Ambrose DESTROYS the illusion of anything being legitimate. He turns wrestling into a Looney Toons skit, and I despise him for that.

Funny how you focus on a move of Ambrose that is "unbelievable", yet we've had guys with moves like The People's Elbow, The Cobra, the Attitude Adjustment, the Brain Chop, Mr. Socko, Hogan's Leg Drop, and on and on. Moves from guys that weren't just mid match moves but finishers, moves that have won titles. Ambrose's rebound clothesline is nowhere close to being as ridiculous as those moves.

As far as "overreacting", he's supposed to be crazy, unhinged, and unstable. It's entirely believable that someone with his type of character would make those faces and react the way he does. I'll also refer back to Rock as far as goofy facial expressions that bordered on ridiculous, seeing his eyes bulge out after a kick out was beyond ridiculous. Also, have you seen some of the expressions and reactions of Seth Rollins or Dolph Ziggler? I guess my point here is, don't call out one guy for things that past main event guys are also guilty of.

 

[CyberPunk]

I won't say he was a flop. But if you talk about expectations, yes, he has fallen short. I won't say it's entirely on him. Most of his feuds look good till the actual big match happens. He was on fire against Lesnar, but the match was nowhere close to that expectations. And far as Ziggler goes, did anyone really think Ziggler had a chance? Another problem is these are all one off matches in a feud (except against Jericho, and frankly, that whole feud was a bit weird to me). That doesn't help anyone evolve either. He is not the best ring worker, at least not WWE wise. That means he needs something else in his matches and that is intensity, which is tough if you don't get that kind of a feud.

May be after dropping the title to AJ Styles, he can use some time to tweak his character?

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

Dean Ambrose has flopped but truth be told they didn't really try. His reign as been a god awful story. He went from the uppercard who can't get the job done, to one of the most credible stars on the SmackDown roster just because he had the title. Instead of building him up and making sure he stayed in that position, they fed him guys like Dolph Ziggler, while AJ Styles got to beat John F'n Cena. Does booking matter? You damn right it does.

He's been overshadowed by everything that's happening and that's not his fault as his shtick is still fun, but gets forgotten. Miz had that amazing rant and people tuned in to see what he would do next. AJ Styles had an amazing feud with the most popular and one of the best wrestlers in the world. Randy Orton got in a feud with their most credible wrestler in Brock Lesnar. They debuted two new championships and while that was happening, Ambrose was there just doing what he's told.

I blame creative and not Ambrose. Still happy about that, though but it should've been the midcard title not the world title. I hope they figure out a way to give him a bigger spotlight against AJ Styles. They'll probably take the title out of him and I understand that.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

So a guy hasn't lived up to the expectations of internet fans and, as a result, he's a flop. There's one helluva shocker.

Has his title reign been the stuff dreams are made of? Not really but, then again, I can't say I'm surprised because I've found this reaction to be quite typical from many internet fans. Ambrose's run as champion hasn't been a flop because....wait for it...............fans are heavily interested and invested in whatever he's doing. Whether it's on Raw or SmackDown Live, Ambrose is among the most popular guys on the roster and popularity, believe it or not, is a pretty good thing. We can debate, complain, criticize, bitch or whatever in regards to whether we think Ambrose is good on the mic or not, whether or not he's good in the ring or what have you because it's what we do. However is over with fans, they care about what he's doing and that is by far & away the most important factor to consider. If fans care, they're gonna rally around you. If they rally around you, you're gonna make money for the company and Ambrose is making money for WWE, he drew more money for the company with far less of a push than Roman Reigns did while he was getting a main event push chasing after or wrestling as WWE World Champion.

 

[Xemmy]

I wouldn't call him a flop at all. He's been booked half assed, that's for sure. The match with Lesnar is a widely known story. The Triple Threat was good. His matches have all been solid and his promos have been good. I wouldn't call then exceptional, but then again he hasn't exactly gotten to work with anyone truly main event other than Brock Lesnar if you ignore the incredibly underbilled and half assed Shield Triple Threat. (1/3 of the triple threat not being on TV didn't help). When you make him defend his title against Dolph Ziggler what the hell do you expect? Him vs AJ is something that I'm actually looking forward to. And I hope he's given the opportunity to have a great program with him, rather than just handing off the belt.

Dean's been a good champion and looks like he belongs with that belt. He just hasn't been exceptional. I think it would be a different story if he was a heel. Baby face world champions just aren't amazing these days. Then again, what can you do when you're booked with a mid-carder.

 

[Hillali2]

I think part of the problem is that to me Ambrose lunatic gimmick would suit him much better as a heel than as a face. I would love to see what he could do with it as a heel. I think in hindsight keeping him face so long has been a mistake. I prefer the idea of him being an unpredictable lunatic heel. More story possibilities too.

Everyone here says the same thing. He doesn't have the ring psychology, the technical ability, lacks in-ring ability etc etc

To me, its a fault with his character and the fact that the smackdown writers don't really do anything with him.

 

[Aeon Mathix]

He hasn't flopped at all. Some people here are pointing out he isn't believable enough to be world champion or doesn't deserve it. Um, maybe if his booking hadn't been utter shit for the last couple years it would be a different story. He lost the first Rollins feud when he should have won the Cell match THEN be attacked by Bray. He lost about 6 times to Bray while being made to look like an idiot (tv exploding in his face? really?). He got disqualified against Barrett for the IC title, was put into a random feud with Luke Harper and took more pinfall losses than probably anyone in the main event scene at the time.

His match against Lesnar is common knowledge now in that he had a bunch of stuff planned for it but stated Lesnar didn't want to do anything so what we got was a less than inspired Raw hardcore match. His Jericho feud was based off of a plant and no Jericho feud has really been any good since maybe his Punk rivalry back in 2012. Not to mention that awful Asylum match. Oh did I mention he was also a warm up for Triple H at roadblock and took a clean loss right before a big match against Lesnar?

The point I am trying to make is Dean Ambrose has had absolutely horrible booking since the Shield broke up. But here he is today still World champion. Rollins and Reigns needed the boost, with Reigns having the machine being behind him and Rollins having the big heel turn. Ambrose was basically left with nothing for the most part and still was one of if not the most over wrestlers on the whole roster. Had he been booked correctly before winning the title, this would be a much different topic.

Also what else do you expect? He won the title in a ladder match where you basically have to be lucky to win and cashed in on an unsuspecting Rollins. That's more of money in the bank's bullshit which has been covered. Reigns got suspended which killed the Shield triple threat and any momentum because we were stuck with Ambrose vs Rollins for about 3 weeks which we had seen 100 times already before. Ambrose won the Shield triple threat which was a good step in the right direction, then he gets paired with Dolph Ziggler of all people at Summerslam which was the weakest looking match on the card. Ziggler isn't very good in his own right so we got an average match and now he's against a Styles who just pinned John Cena clean at Summerslam.

Dean Ambrose is in no way to blame for any of his title reign or past couple of years. That is all on his booking. I am sure when he turns heel there will be threads raving about his work compared to now because that's how things roll around here apparently. Shit when does the Rollins is sucking as a face thread start?

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I completely agree with the OP and Aquaman.

Any reasonably sane, rational, and perceptive person would!

Dean Ambrose just isn't mainevent material.

I also agree with the very brilliant and perceptive analogy the OP came up with, in that not many of the "New Era" performers evolved, like The Rock, CM Punk, etc. once they won the major championship.

I disagree that Roman Reigns hasn't improved or evolved, to an extent. (Vince and creative can be blamed they didn't turn Reigns heel).

And Seth Rollins has completely lived up to the hype, IMO. The work he did on Monday was pure Gold. Now that he's a face- I completely saw this change in his mannerisms, his expression, there was so much intensity and vitality, I've been saying this for a long long time, Seth Rollins is Shawn Michaels. And to be that consistently, is simply amazing.

That being said, I hope and expect KO to not flop either.

So to sum it up:-

Roman Reigns is actually talented, only Vince, the audiences, and the IWC/fans are to be blamed for the lack of "evolution" persona-wise, but other than that- the guy wrestles amazing matches in big match situations, just like the Undertaker.

Seth Rollins is God.

Kevin Owens is sheer brilliance, let's see where his title reign leads him to (I really hope that it's not a letdown).

But Dean Ambrose- well meh- the IWC is finally figuring out what I have known for a long time- not championship material, not a maineventer. Just awful. ( I understand he has worked hard and stuff in life, but does it mean he is as talented as CM Punk? Nope. )

 

[Isaac Kaye]

Ambrose still gets bigger face reactions than most of the other guys on the roster. (Raw and SD). His momentum was snapped when they drafted him to SD where the talent pool at the time was almost non-existent because Cena was feuding with AJ and Orton was booked to face Lesnar. Then put him in with a babyface who nobody gave a chance - Ziggler. This put Zig in a tweener role. The fans didn't care.
Ambrose looked like a star when he came out and cut that promo after winning the title. He's improved a lot over the past year or so. But there are obviously areas he needs to work on, i.e his move set and how he interacts with the fans during promos (crappy jokes that don't really connect although they're probably scripted).
They need to have him involved in a feud people are gonna care about, and he'll look fine. AJ is the perfect guy to do that. Ambrose is a lot better in the ring a lot of people are giving him credit for. He'll be fine.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

Flopped? Nah, its too early to tell. He has been overshadowed with AJ Styles and his booking is not so great since Ziggler is ridiculous opponent for such big match at Summerslam because we were bound too get Styles/Cena 2. But it can still change if he shows himself good with his matches with Styles.

 

[rbv13]

Ambrose's title reign really came at an inopportune time. There was an incredible pop when he cashed in to steal the title from the freshly crowned Seth Rollins. This set the table for a triple threat between the former Hounds of Justice. This should've been a hot month for all parties involved. Unfortunately the program took a major dive when Roman Reigns found himself put on the sideline for a Wellness Violation. It was also around this time the Brand Split and the Draft were picking up steam. These two developments took center stage. Following the split weak rosters with limited with true star power saw Ambrose put into a program with a glorified enhancement talent. Plain and simple, circumstances have hindered his run.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Imagine that, a guy finally hits the zenith of pro wrestling accomplishments by turning in a briefcase which allows him to pin a guy who had just been in a war (way to go played out concept), then one of his opponents gets a wellness violation, while fans are more focused on the draft, then you cut the pool of possible challengers in half, give him a guy who no one thinks has a chance of winning and put the match on the undercard, and then two weeks later fans are using words like flop as they are in the process of quickly throwing together another PPV.

Ambrose has a lot working against him. He is not a prototypical talent in appearance and does himself few favors in the ring. But to say he hasn't evolved since becoming champion really isn't fair at all. Champs don't necessarily evolve after they get the title and he hasn't been champ long enough to even tell if he evolved. If anything I'd say he's become a little more lighthearted since becoming champ. More than anything DB did during the fart that was his post Mania 30 title reign.

If we are going to be unfair about title reigns let's be sure to point out after last night, Kevin Owens' title reign has been an abortion of an abomination.

Ambrose has done fine with what he has been given. If he fails to impress in the ring with AJ then maybe we can start pointing fingers, but for now let's just say this reign needs more to be considered a success.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

You have to look back to how WWE FIRST looked at the SHIELD... Ambrose was the MUST get over, Rollins the second and Reigns the bonus guy... That long US title reign was all about making Ambrose "the guy".... then it all changed in Vince's head and Reigns became top, Rollins second and Ambrose suddenly last...

What was sold to Dean was... we're making you champ, but you gotta carry the second split...and it's gonna be a shit job... but if you can keep the numbers you had... then we will give you a second, better reign down the line... if you can't... you're done. same deal for Balor and now Owens...

Reigns never had that... Rollins never had that, they had "we're hanging THE SHOW on you..." so in some ways, Ambrose has leeway... He can't be expected to be "there" in the same way they expected the others too as it's totally different.

THIS is his audition now, he's doing fine within the confines of an unsuitable face character... he'll be forgiven. They can and will probably shift to Wyatt by the end of the year and it makes sense to do so.... he is where Jericho was in 2001... even if he gets "a bit of history" it is still relatviely meaningless, everyone remembers the second and third reigns down the line better and more fondly... but he proved he could be the company guy, deal with the shit and Dean is doing it better than BOTH Reigns and Rollins have... no scandals, no major cock ups... a relationship with Renee that the fans "like" even the "Tittymaster" stuff went away... Rollin's cock and Reign's "prick in the ass" won't...

 

[Garak]

You have to look back to how WWE FIRST looked at the SHIELD... Ambrose was the MUST get over, Rollins the second and Reigns the bonus guy... That long US title reign was all about making Ambrose "the guy".... then it all changed in Vince's head and Reigns became top, Rollins second and Ambrose suddenly last...

That certainly makes some sense. As the Shield was progressing, though, I saw things slightly differently. It seemed that Ambrose had a lot of talent and charisma that simply wasn't being properly utilized in the way the faction was being portrayed. I had a feeling that Reigns would be the eventual serious push, given what McMahon looks for a in a star, and thought that Rollins would be a bit relegated as the least important.

Ambrose simply needs to be less scripted. He's exceedingly talented, but not talented on a script. I suspect he'd do a lot better if he were given the freedom to improvise; of course, the odds of that happening are pretty slim. Maybe he'd be better on a script as a heel.

 

[mace87]

I think Ambrose has been average at best in my opinion but I think giving him Ziggler as his first opponent after the brand split and for an event as big a Summerslam didn't help. He needed a bigger name to face but every big name was already set for bigger matches (Cena, Styles & Orton) so I guess Ziggler was seen as the best of the rest

 

[Blade]

OP is wrong. If this was a spam section, I'd probably just leave it at that. But I suppose I better give some reasons.

1) He still consistently gets one of the biggest pops of the night. And when he does get those big pops, they're not tinged with smatterings of boos. Ambrose may be the most universally-liked full-time wrestler on the roster right now. That may change when Rollins completes his face turn, or when John Cena returns (although, some knobs will never stop booing him). But the fact is, casual fans fucking love Ambrose. He's the closest thing to a universally beloved babyface since Bryan, though he's obviously not at the that level. I mean, parts of the IWC are shitting on him, but thankfully they don't matter in the slightest.

2) His title matches, on average, have been very good. While his best singles match in WWE is still with Triple H, he still has a couple of 4 star matches under his belt in his battles with the former Shield members since becoming champion. The match with Ziggler was underwhelming, but that's because everything Ziggler does is underwhelming. Ambrose has still been rock solid. And his match with AJ is going to tear the house down.

3) He's been booked like a fucking star. He's beaten everyone he's faced clean, including dispatching of Ziggler with relative ease. He's rarely outsmarted or made to look like a chump. The only time he's been on the losing end of an exchange was this week, with AJ Styles kicking him in the balls. All in all, Ambrose has looked like THE guy, and it's been believable. Which is good because...

4) His character has evolved to that of a top babyface. Ambrose as the champion who's loving life on top but is also ready to kick anyone's ass is really working for me. He's almost like a babyface, working class version of Ric Flair. I love watching Ambrose strut around like he owns the place. And even the props he uses now have a purpose - I liked the trophy bit. It actually meant something, and it led Dean into that killer 'second place' line.

So yeah. The scorecard would say that Ambrose is the best babyface world champion we've had in quite some time. He's not perfect by any means, but he's good for that World Title right now, after the crap it's been through since 2014. He's over, he's consistent, and he's entertaining. That's what the title needs, and it's what Smackdown needs.

 

[kadroan]

Dean Ambrose has flopped but truth be told they didn't really try. His reign as been a god awful story. He went from the uppercard who can't get the job done, to one of the most credible stars on the SmackDown roster just because he had the title. Instead of building him up and making sure he stayed in that position, they fed him guys like Dolph Ziggler, while AJ Styles got to beat John F'n Cena. Does booking matter? You damn right it does.

He's been overshadowed by everything that's happening and that's not his fault as his shtick is still fun, but gets forgotten. Miz had that amazing rant and people tuned in to see what he would do next. AJ Styles had an amazing feud with the most popular and one of the best wrestlers in the world. Randy Orton got in a feud with their most credible wrestler in Brock Lesnar. They debuted two new championships and while that was happening, Ambrose was there just doing what he's told.

I blame creative and not Ambrose. Still happy about that, though but it should've been the midcard title not the world title. I hope they figure out a way to give him a bigger spotlight against AJ Styles. They'll probably take the title out of him and I understand that.

I agree. He should have never been in a feud with Ziggler. The 6 Pack Challenge should have ended in a double pin between Cena and AJ, leading to a triple threat at Summerslam where Ambrose got the signature win over Cena. Then, Ambrose feuds with AJ. If they really just have to have Ziggler vs. Ambrose and AJ vs. Cena, just have Ambrose and Ziggler do a double turn. It's obvious AJ was becoming the more popular name and Ambrose was acting heelish in his feud with Ziggler.