Hardcore Justice, a PPV away from a lawsuit

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

I can understand a lot of fan's passion over this, however, I don't think there's much of a case here. I remember back in the old WWF days I would read Magazines and browse their website and from 1996-2001 (pre-AOL Time Warner sale of WCW to WWF), the WWF mentioned WCW several times. When the Radicals first jumped ship to WWF from WCW, Benoit's bio page mentioned him being a former WCW champion. When the Billionaire Ted Skits started, a couple months later in the RAW magazine, WCW got mentioned in one of the articles in that publicationl.

As long as no intellectual property is being visibly used like video footage, or corporate logos, I don't think there's much WWE can do. There was no ECW logo on the poster for the event and there were only spoken references to ECW, it's like what yur_momma said they can say NFL, Dancing With The Stars and so on. As long as they are not using their logos I think they're fine. Now granted TNA is in the pro wrestling business like WWE is and therefore mentioning the ECW name might strike ire in some fans because they might interpret that as being a hostile move from TNA. However, like I said in my first paragraph, WWF has done it too, so they would be in no position to talk. It's not like the whole nWo angle where WCW was vaguely implying that WWF was coming to take over WCW and go to war. No, the ECW reunion was merely a bunch of guys wanting to reunite for a Hardcore Wrestling show, they mentioned nothing that implied that they were sent by an unknown entity to take over TNA.

In addition to the WCW references the then WWF made before they bought the company. Would it be fair to say that WWE should be sued when they mention stupid statistics on their little "Did You Know" bullshit factoid tidbits when they say that WWE programming has beaten out American Idol on several occasions. Hmmmm....I wonder if Simon Cowell and Fox are going to take the time to finally sue Vince McMahon over using their name on TV.

Some people are acting as if TNA was saying god damn it and Jesus Christ the whole night, sorry guys but as prolific and dominant a company WWE is, they are not god. Saying something isn't quite the same thing a showing it...or else WWE would be in the same boat with the names of entities they use.

 

[Athena]

As other posters have said before me, it's not like Vince needs the money or anything. Hell, he probably has more money within arm's reach of himself right now than what he could earn from suing Dixie, but he should still do it anyway. Why?

It's the principle of the matter. Another rival organization has just tried to make money off of a property you own the rights to and off of people you own the names of. That in of itself is fine, and if TNA had just done a harmless nostalgia show with some of the old workers, there wouldn't be much of a big deal here. That wasn't the case, however. Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't watch much of TNA, but it seemed as they though they tried to get as many digs and take as many shots at Vince and ECWWE as they could during the build-up to this PPV.

The buy rate for this PPV is probably going to bring in pennies, but if I was Vince, I would still sue to take as much of the earnings as I could. Not because I need them, but because I know TNA needs the earnings badly and I don't want them to have them. They didn't earn a cent tonight. The only thing they did was take a product that someone else owns and try to make a quick buck out of it.

 

[TheLoneLegend]

I LOVE IT!!! Keep saying "Fuck you Vince!" Without Vincent K. McMahon more then 80% of you wouldn't even know what wrestling is. Without Vincent K. McMahon wrestling would of died; try to argue it, but who would of been the savior Jim Crockett? ROFL! Face it, the only true ICON of Pro Wrestling is Vince McMahon, he has created what we now know as wrestling. Before him wrestling was much more "Pure" style and wouldn't of lasted much longer as most people already looked their noses down on it (more so then people do now of days). He forced the change and the fans ate the change out of his hands. Disrespecting the McMahon character is one thing, but Vince McMahon is the "GOD" of the Wrestling World no matter how you want to look at it.

Now onto topic....

Will Vince sue or makes threats to sue TNA? No. He knows he needs competition and has even said it himself that his creative thoughts are best when in competition. He's not going to go out of his way to make TNA thrive, but he is waiting for the day for them to become competition so that he can pounce. PG Era is out the window if TNA ever begins to appear to be a threat.

Also someone mentioned the possibility of Vince having a claim in TNA. As unreasonable as it sounds to most people, it is honestly perfectly feesable, although highly unlikely. Vince has been known to allow his Wrestlers to work for other promotions (Justin Credible is a prime example; almost his entire tenure in ECW was under a WWF contract). Vince has also been known for secretly giving other promotions finical aid. WWE is a publicly traded company, so if the WWE had stake in TNA it would be well known and documented. So it's obviously not that case.

 

[covieo81]

I don't know why people are saying that ecw fans that hate vince will now know about tna. If they don't know about tna then they wouldn't know that there was gonna be an ecw reunion show. Anyways yes vince could sue and by all rights should it doesn't matter if they used copyrighted names they used their likeness and I'm sure tna would settle out of court cuz vinve could drag it on for a long time. Will he sue? My guess is no what's the point? It would just give tna more publicity. Even negative attention is attention and peeps would wanna see what is scarin vince so bad that he had to sue. No vince will not sue

 

[Caitiff]

Well, my memory may be off, but wasn't the given reason for "EV2.0" something about "some guy having a problem with certain letters of the alphabet," or something like that? That was actually put into an aired promo, on a taped television show. That's a VERY clear message that this was done with intent, by the people involved with TNA.

Hell, everything about the Raven/Dreamer storyline was a direct ripoff of WWE copyright, since that's part of ECW history. And, like it or not, that history is owned by Vince McMahon. Face facts, guys. EVERYTHING attached to Extreme Championship Wrestling is the sole property of World Wrestling Entertainment. Shit, Al Snow walking to the ring with Head is a WWE copyright, since it was created in ECW, and then used in WWE.

Bringing up Paul Heyman and Joey Styles only added to the blatant nature of this move. They as much as admitted that it was, in fact, an attempt to trade off of the ECW name, at that point. Frankly, it could be seen as fraudulant on TNA's part, which could, in theory, grant WWE triple the gross from the show as punitive damages. That's ticket sales, pay-per-view buys, t-shirts.... Everything. BEFORE TNA sees a dime, or recoups expenses.

As Samyel said earlier, Vince could very easily sue Panda Energy instead of TNA over this. And, given the fact that Vince has a hell of a lot more money than Bob Carter, he would win that lawsuit.

 

[vampirek]

Well, my memory may be off, but wasn't the given reason for "EV2.0" something about "some guy having a problem with certain letters of the alphabet," or something like that? That was actually put into an aired promo, on a taped television show. That's a VERY clear message that this was done with intent, by the people involved with TNA.

Hell, everything about the Raven/Dreamer storyline was a direct ripoff of WWE copyright, since that's part of ECW history. And, like it or not, that history is owned by Vince McMahon. Face facts, guys. EVERYTHING attached to Extreme Championship Wrestling is the sole property of World Wrestling Entertainment. Shit, Al Snow walking to the ring with Head is a WWE copyright, since it was created in ECW, and then used in WWE.

Bringing up Paul Heyman and Joey Styles only added to the blatant nature of this move. They as much as admitted that it was, in fact, an attempt to trade off of the ECW name, at that point. Frankly, it could be seen as fraudulant on TNA's part, which could, in theory, grant WWE triple the gross from the show as punitive damages. That's ticket sales, pay-per-view buys, t-shirts.... Everything. BEFORE TNA sees a dime, or recoups expenses.

As Samyel said earlier, Vince could very easily sue Panda Energy instead of TNA over this. And, given the fact that Vince has a hell of a lot more money than Bob Carter, he would win that lawsuit.

First of all, using 'EV2.0' is perfectly legal and even mentioning why they have used that name does not break any laws.
Raven/Dreamer storyline is again not against the law, they can mention these in interviews etc. As long as no footage is shown then they can talk about it all they want.
As for Al Snow, now if the character of Head is trademarked by the WWE then yes there was a breach last night. However I highly doubt the WWE could sue because of it. Not everything of ECW is trademarked to the WWE, Paul Heyman did give wrestlers some freedom.... he simply forgot when it came to The Dudleyz. Look at The Sandman for an easy example.
Mentioning Heyman and Styles, again nothing illegal in that. You can do it in shoot interviews and Bischoff always mentioned Vince McMahon on live broadcasts of WCW.... heck WCW named WWF wrestlers left, right and centre.

What people on here and in general forget is that TNA is not the first company to do such an event for 'ECW'. The WWE has never sued those other promotions for doing it, however have placed restricted measures on them (such as the removal of ECW chants on DVDs)

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

I don't think VKM even knew there was a ECW reunion ppv, face it, he has better things to worry about and doesn't see it as a threat..

I mean that ppv was okay, but the thing is, the wrestlers wern't allowed to be who they wanted to be and I think thats satisfactory for VKM...I mean mahoney was called Kahoney? Justin Credible was called wat? I forgot, they already couldn't have Joey Styles So that is a big loss...

The ppv wasn't that good..maybe it lived up to the name ECW and sure it had some good stars, but here hoping their may never be another ECW reunion!

 

[Mr-excitement]

I don't know how this is a stupid idea. This could bring in the hardcore ECW fans, who hate vince now. This could pull up the ratings a bit. Seems to me ECW fans now know about another company. Who's to say that just watched for ECW and not TNA. They watched impact and didn't turn it off when TNA superstars were on. I think this could bring up TNA ratings, and TNA could get bigger from this.

And what are the hardcore fans going to see? Fortune, Jeff Hardy and Beer Money. TNA is not going to keep using all of the ECW originals. They can't afford it.

and come on the former ECW fans already knew about TNA, they don't live in a vacum. This won't get them any new fans, it did not highlight the company or its talent. They pretty much did a PPV for a company they don't own the rights to, if this makes anyone nostalgic for ECW they will have to buy the DVDs owned by WWE. Vince makes money.

 

[smarktown]

Hey Dumbass commenting on this thread(and Possibly others) makes YOU part of the IWC to *Gasp* I know surprizing to find out huh?

I'm part of the IWC to gasp? Why would being part of it make me want to gasp? Oh, it was third grade grammar. "Surprizing."

All lame insults aside, being a wrestling fan and on the internet does not make you part of the IWC. I was a part of the IWC about ten years ago. It started getting so jaded and smug that nobody was enjoying the sport, so I walked away from it.

I visit WZ.com occasionally if I miss a PPV, etc... but I don't read spoilers, I don't keep up on who's fired and why, etc. I don't hate everything to do with wrestling. I don't find reasons to bitch about every creative idea that makes it to TV. I couldn't find a problem with last night's PPV if I tried, which makes me more of an intentionally oblivious mark.

It's called suspending disbelief, and if you can still do it, you aren't jaded enough to be part of the IWC.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I doubt the WWE gets sued by the World Wildlife Fund every time Bret Hart screws up and calls the WWE the WWF. I also doubt that Vince is going to waste the time, energy, and money to sue TNA due to 3-4 innocent (?) mistakes. His victory doesn't need to be in the courthouse, his victory is in the fact that TNA has gotten so bad that their last ditch effort to make money involved bringing back people that he pretty much fired for being exactly what we saw last night: old, fat, and washed-up. What a disgrace.

If they weren't already, guys like AJ Styles and the Motor City Machine Guns should be furious with the company for this latest fiasco. They deserve much better.

 

[gers09]

i am watching it right now

if they do it will because of Taz he slipping up and calling ppl by there ecw/wwe names ie. he said justin credible(am guessing wwe own right to that name as he was called P.J. Polaco , balls and even said ECW even tho all show they have called it the Philadelphia promotion

 

[johnbragg]

Well, my memory may be off, but wasn't the given reason for "EV2.0" something about "some guy having a problem with certain letters of the alphabet," or something like that? That was actually put into an aired promo, on a taped television show. That's a VERY clear message that this was done with intent, by the people involved with TNA.

I think the "EV2.0" was after a call or a letter from WWE legal reminding TNA of some realities. That was also the last we heard of "One Last Stand" and the commercial with the ECW crowd chants.

Hell, everything about the Raven/Dreamer storyline was a direct ripoff of WWE copyright, since that's part of ECW history. And, like it or not, that history is owned by Vince McMahon.

This would be an interesting test case, the status of intellectual property of a wrestling storyline separate from the footage and character names. Scott Levy owns the Raven name and character, or at least WWE doesn't. I don't know that a judge would side with WWE on that issue. Raven referred to the same imaginary events he referred to on ECW programming, but didn't really refer to the ECW programming where they ran this storyline.

Face facts, guys. EVERYTHING attached to Extreme Championship Wrestling is the sole property of World Wrestling Entertainment.

No, only the stuff that ECW trademarked and WWE bought in the bankruptcy sale. Aside from Vince McMahon, most promoters didn't copyright names, characters, etc. The guys who couldn't use their ECW ring names were guys who used those names in WWE, and didn't notice or didn't object when WWE trademarked them--the Dudleys, Balls Mahoney, Justin Credible, Blue Meanie.

Under trademark law, as far as I know, you have to specifically trademark something, it doesn't just happen automatically.

Shit, Al Snow walking to the ring with Head is a WWE copyright, since it was created in ECW, and then used in WWE.

I doubt that WWE copyrighted the Head gimmick.

Bringing up Paul Heyman and Joey Styles only added to the blatant nature of this move. They as much as admitted that it was, in fact, an attempt to trade off of the ECW name, at that point. Frankly, it could be seen as fraudulant on TNA's part, which could, in theory, grant WWE triple the gross from the show as punitive damages. That's ticket sales, pay-per-view buys, t-shirts.... Everything. BEFORE TNA sees a dime, or recoups expenses.

I doubt that there is a cause of action here. They did it during the PPV, for one thing, rather than in the advertising. That has to matter. They already had the money when whoever said whatever. Furthermore, talking about Styles and Heyman is no more actionable than Bischoff challenging Vince to a street fight back when Bischoff ran WCW.

As Samyel said earlier, Vince could very easily sue Panda Energy instead of TNA over this. And, given the fact that Vince has a hell of a lot more money than Bob Carter, he would win that lawsuit.

No. There is a reason that companies set up subsidiaries--to limit liabilities. For example, if the Gulf damages bill is big enough, they BP International could put BP USA into bankruptcy and walk away. They'd lose all their US holdings, but they wouldn't be liable for the Gulf oil spill costs beyond losing the BP USA properties.

TNA is organized as an LLC, a Limited Liability Corporation, to limit the liabilities of Panda Energy (and Jeff Jarrett). That's part of the reason that Hogan and Flair are rumored to have contracts with Panda Energy--if TNA shuts down, they still get paid without having to wait in line with whatever other creditors there may be.

 

[zeroligerx]

I would like to say this. IF VKM would to sue over this PPV then it just be sad. Cause he had a great product and he just rude it over and over again. I understand that there are some legal issues that came with this PPV but still if he did sue it he would be doing out of pure jealous

 

[MrHashasheen]

Do you think Vince cares about the ECW fans, this is the man that took ECW and turned it into a joke and treated it's fans like crap.

... He's also the same guy who gave Heyman money to keep going time after time till he couldn't afford to when he fucked up with XFL and bought WCW. The only reason ECW became a joke as you say is because he decided to take a different way than blood, weapons and hardcore when he owned it, and considering he's an internationally known businessman, that kinda shit would kill his cred and ways to promote his federation. Everyone who keeps bashing him on this is being silly. He's a businessman. For the same reasons he went PG the same reasons he changed ECW and everything else. Because it makes money and because he wants it that way.

 

[Chadmw]

When I started this thread I was actually undecided if Vince should sue TNA. After reading all the post I agree with most people that say Vince's lawyers will probably just send some type of Cease and desist letter.

Now on to some other points brought up in this thread

1. For those of you who don't think Vince pays attention to TNA or at least doesn't have people that pay attention to it for him, you are all very naive. I'm sure Vince pay's attention to TNA, ROH and every other minor league fed around, just beacuse it would be stupid not to pay attention to competition. Someone even mentioned that they doubted Vince knew there was an ECW event going on, oh trust me he knew

2. For those of you who say that TNA is small potatoes to Vince. Don't forget this is a man who sent cease and desist letters and threatened to sue online e-feds when people were using WWF/WWE characters. And no one was making much profit of those.

3. Somebody mentioned the DVD sales and how Vince can sue once those come out. I gurantee when that DVD comes out all mentions of ECW and any other WWE intellectually owned property will have been removed.

4. And as just previosuly mentioned in the post before me, Vince had Vampires and Mummies on the first episodes of his ECW, where in the world does that show that he tried to keep it going.

5. And yes TNA can say this guy came from ECW or the WWE without being sued, but they cannot say this is an ECW event, which Taz did kind of said or implied once.

6. And I also agree that yeah mentioning Joey Styles and Paul Heyman can not get them sued, as I doubt either of those names are trademarked by the WWE.

7. As for the Raven-Dreamer storyline, The WWE definately could not sue over that, this has been done cross companies many times. (Ex. WCW mentioned the original Hogan-Warrior fued when Warrior went to WCW)