Gunner: What's Missing?

[It's Damn Real!]

X noted in the LD tonight that Gunner isn't as bad of a wrestler as people make him out to be, but still "needs a lot of work" as he was the least interesting man in the four-way ladder match, and frankly, he's right. Gunner does need work, but IMO the work he needs is almost purely cosmetic.

In terms of in the ring, he's doing just fine. His move set is pretty solid, and certainly enough to warrant some of the positions he's been put in as an upper-mid-card performer, but his actual gimmick, or lack thereof, just doesn't match the body, face and style they're putting it on. IMO If you are going for "Mr. Intensity", go all in. Add it to his graphics, always reference him as such and hell, if you really want to push it, give him a bit of an Edge/Pillman-like edge. Put him in a feud that can really tap into that intensity/mental instability. It's just gotta be more than just grinning at the camera and holding a title in your teeth. It has to.

As SD also noted, the quietish redneck promos are killing the character.

Thoughts on Gunner? Ideas on how to package him better, or is what he's working with now acceptable?

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

I think that for right now he is perfectly acceptable but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't look to improve because you could always be better and become a better all around Wrestling package. He's pretty good in the ring for some one his size and I know this from some house show matches of his I've seen in person and matches from the BFG Series that they put on the TnaOndemand website. I do agree that he could use some improvement in the character and promo department but that also means that Tna has to give him a chance to develop a character and give him promo time. I think that if Gunner could improve on those two things that Gunner could be a big part of the future for TNA.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

Give Gunner his Universal Soldier persana that played off his Marine Corp background. Gunner was awesome with that in the NWA. That is what he is missing, he had a background, a purpose, a line of dialog he could easily slip into. That is what Gunner is missing.

 

[briancostello]

Gunner is definitely missing something. His wins over Anderson did not get him "over"...in my opinion.

Where is Murphy? I know he hasn't been on Impact and they have split a while ago...I lose track of time easily...but having Murphy as a side kick and as a tag team would of made Gunner legit.

He is part of IMMORTAL? IMMORTAL is for guys like Jarrett, Flair, Hogan...not Gunner.

 

[Harris'11]

I think all gunner really needs is a gimmick
I dont mind him in-ring but on the mic he doesnt seem too confident with who his character is.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

Totally agree Harris, he seems like he is forcing things. TNA took him out of a persana that he had done for years, that he was great at, and that he was comfortable with and gave him a generic one that has no texture to it. I think TNA is dropping the ball here.

 

[briancostello]

I don't think Gunner will get over in TNA...too many wrestlers and he is definitely on the back burner.

 

[AndarielHalo]

Gunner: What's Missing?


Wrestling ability, mic skills, unique name, charisma, a compelling look, talent, appeal to the fans.



Is that it? I haven't seen any of those above things in him since he first appeared as "Random Security Guy #1"

 

[Trill Co$by]

Gunner is definitely missing something. His wins over Anderson did not get him "over"...in my opinion.

Where is Murphy? I know he hasn't been on Impact and they have split a while ago...I lose track of time easily...but having Murphy as a side kick and as a tag team would of made Gunner legit.

He is part of IMMORTAL? IMMORTAL is for guys like Jarrett, Flair, Hogan...not Gunner.

Murphy's working in NWA Anarchy some more... He just hasn't been called for anything. If I had to guess, he's probably not going to be back for a while.

As for what he's lacking, I'd say it's more so a solid storyline than it is a gimmick. TNA's too busy being caught up in their little "Hogan returns to the ring for the 1 billionth time for the last time" shtick that they just don't really give him or anyone to develop a real storyline. Maybe they can stick him in a feud with someone like Pope or Joe to really help get him over. Joe and Gunner have worked some local indy shows back when Joe was still in ROH, and from what I can remember, the two did pretty well in the ring. Maybe a short program can help Gunner.

And after that, who knows, maybe he and Angle can go at it. Angle's really great at bringing the raw natural talent out of workers and turning him into legends. I mean the guy practically made Eddie Guerrero look like a million bucks during their rivalry up to WM 20.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

Gunner: What's Missing?


Wrestling ability, mic skills, unique name, charisma, a compelling look, talent, appeal to the fans.



Is that it? I haven't seen any of those above things in him since he first appeared as "Random Security Guy #1"

Then you have obviously been wearing a blindfold. I have seen a lot of his matches before TNA and during his TNA Run. He is working within his character which is a bad one. Wrestling ability is good, he is a good wrestler. The rest is TNA screwing him up with a bad package.

 

[CaptainZaltan]

All Gunner is missing is charisma, a gimmick, a personality, and something to make him stand out from every other wrestler on the planet. Really, I don't get the Gunner love on these forums (or Crimson, for that matter). Gunner is a competent wrestler, but otherwise completely generic. He does nothing in the ring, or outside of it, to make him stand out. He's technically competent, but he shows little to no personality inside of the ring and doesn't seem to know a lot about how to pace a match or tell a story. Can anyone tell me what exactly separates Gunner from your average NXT or Tough Enough loser? Because I don't see it.

Granted, Gunner is still young, and I'm guessing he hasn't exactly had a lot of time to work in the industry and find out what will and will not get over (and I don't want to come down on the guy TOO hard, because it's not his fault that he's green, and he does have potential). But that's almost the point, really. He's not ready for the push he's being given. Hell, a few months ago he was just a generic security guard, and TNA made ZERO effort to build a background for him outside of that. 'Long haired tough-guy #102' isn't a gimmick. If creative isn't going to give him anything to work with, he's going to need time to figure out what works himself. In the meantime, I just don't think he's ready for this push he's getting. You should get over, and THEN get pushed. Not the other way around. Overexposing Gunner before he's ready does nothing for Gunner, or for the company.

 

[New Hot Fed]

First I would ask for both Gunner and Crimson to stop making those pseudo-intense pauses and face expressions. It made them look constipated. It's like they are trying too much to be Goldberg #2, 3. Gunner is probably pretty strong in real life and he look tough, let your action speak for yourself, don't oversell it. It would be better if he was cold and calculating delivering focused offense.

Also leave Immortal.

And i've thought from the get-go that a solid durable run with a secondary belt would have been perfect for him to get credibility. Next thing you know, he lose it to EY(making the belt worthless now) and IW pushes him too much. Leave the main event alone for the time being, get him the tv strap back and let him run with it so the fans can accept him.

 

[Allstar]

All this guy needs is a fitting gimmick and good intense promos.
He has the size and look of an intimidating force (plus his tatts are pretty sweet)
I think he really needs to break away from imortal and perhaps chase the t.v title again? Maybe have him absolutely destroy E.Y and win back the title?


Oh...and this proberly couldn't happen but.........a name change?! What kind of a name is gunner? Silly name IMO

 

[TCBT]

Actually, out of all the wrestlers in TNA, my personal pick to want to watch make a leap to the WWE is Gunner. I understand that he hasn't done anything to wow anyone as of yet, but I think that guy has all the right tools to become a strong force in TNA or WWE. As a matter of fact, I really wish WWE swooped him from under TNA before he becomes a bigger name and mold him to become one of WWE's own.

Gunner started his TNA career with a random security guard gimmick and a crappy tag team partner, then he goes on to join Immortal for seemingly no real reason other than to get him and said crappy tag team partner on TV somehow, and there - amidst name talents like Hulk Hogan, Bischoff, the Hardy's, Ric Flair, now Bully Ray, Scott Steiner, and Mr. Anderson - he's supposed to fit in and make a name for himself???

I'd say the same thing most people here have said: give him a proper gimmick, or at least some TV time in a good, solid program, and then we'll see what the guy can do. But I personally like him and see a ton of potential.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I agree with pretty much all the other posters in this thread. Gunner needs a proper gimmick, he is just so generic right now.

He has a cool look, great physique and is pretty good in the ring, but he just doesnt have any character. As others have said, let him go back to his intense Universal Soldier type gimmick, or just push and focus on the "intensity" side of his character and let him snap and go crazy.

Also, I hate the ring name "Gunner", he needs a surname or a name change. I cant take that name seriously as a top wrestlers ring name, it looks like its missing a last name

 

[blockanWo]

Yeah, Im going to follow the same trend.

The guy has wrestling ability. He has a decent enough move set and he uses the F5 to top it off. He looks like a million bucks. Hes not overly huge but is big enough to sell the mid to upper card position and has a look that is built for a career of heel runs.

He is being booked as the small crazy guy and while he is doing it well...the gimmick itself isnt good.

I dont think he has much of a spot inside Immortal at the moment though. With Scott Steiner and Bully Ray there, his intensity, is overshadowed by their huge characters. Id honestly like to see him go alone or perhaps reignite the Fortune vs Immortal concept, he could go over on Kazarian no problem or even have a great series of matches with AJ Styles and become a very credible upper card performer. Hell, hes already knocked off two world champs. Build him as the Champion Killer or something. Have him start knocking over former/current champions left and right.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I have to go with consensus here. A major problem I've seen with Gunner is that the guy comes across as so damn generic. He's basically just a guy with a good build with tattoos and that's pretty much it. People haven't gotten behind him as they've been given no reason to get behind him. He's spent the vast majority of his time in TNA as a generic lackey heel but TNA has suddenly tried to thrust him into a position where he's a legit challenger for the World Title. It just simply has not worked.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

He has a decent enough move set and he uses the F5 to top it off.

That is another thing about Gunner that can be ticked off on the list of things you need to be a top wrestler- a great finisher.

The F5 is well known as an awesome finishing move after Lesnar made it famous. Currently, there is no wrestler in any major promotion using the move (to my knowledge) and it has been a few years since anyone used it as a regular finisher. So the time is right for Gunner to bring the F5 back and make it his own.

I think it was a great decision to start using that finisher, I hate when so many wrestlers have almost identical finishers (The Mic Check, Steiner's Flatliner, the one Shelton Benjamin used etc), they dont stand out at all. The F5 does.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

From me the love comes from the fact I saw him before TNA, he has had awesome matches. You know that American Wolf guy, you know the RoH World Champion? Guess who beat him in the 2009 NWA Legends Cup Finals in a 15 Minute match that was fantastic? The Universal Soldier Phil Shatter/Gunner. Who is the longest reigning NWA National Heavyweight Champion in history? Dusty Rhodes? Tully Blanchard? Ric Flair? Nope. The Universal Soldier Phil Shatter/Gunner.

My "Love" for Gunner comes from knowing how good he actually is, how good he has made people look, and how badly TNA is dropping the ball with him. Shatter/Gunner could easily be a TNA Main Eventer if they played off of his Universal Soldier Persana, one he had for six years and was way over with.

 

[sweetcosmicpope]

I'm not sure where all this hate for his mic work is. I think his promos are some of the most intense and confident of them all.

Where other people yammer on about respect and this and that, and others sound very unsure of themselves, Gunner just goes off like a crazy bastard, which I like.

I do agree, though, with others to an extent. I think his gimmick is good (not great), but he should be playing off the craziness. Get out of immortal. Be the crazy, lone wolf for a while, which I think would be epic. Hell, the reason I didn't like him at first was because he just came off as a hired goon/jobber. I never would have guessed that he would build himself so well that as a greenie, he's already in the title hunt and I have no complaints. Never would have guessed that, at all.

 

[JJYanks121]

How come when I said this a few months ago, no one listened?

Seriously, I said that he was "angry guy #1" and despite looking competant in the ring, was pretty bland overall and just didn't "wow" me. At the time, everyone was drooling over the guy because he was actually being pushed and I was told he has "it" and whatever else.

I've never thought the guy was bad, just didn't stand out from the pack. Now it's said by the mod and everyone is agreeing with me! Thanks broskis and girlskis for seeing the light!

In all seriousness, I've said it from the beginning, just looking intense for short bursts is not a character, especially as was said in the LD, if you follow it up with unintense promos. A whole character must be formed and for that to happen, TNA and Gunner probably have to figure out what that character is. With that said, I'm pretty sure he shouldn't win the BFG series as a result, because you'd be hardpressed to buy an unfinished product competing for and possibly winning the World Title.

I appreciate the idea of pushing new people, but I've very much been against pushing Crimson and Gunner for the sole reason of what it means to everyone else. You have guys like Morgan, Roode, Styles, Storm, etc. that have spent years cultivating their characters and making them work. Don't turn around and take the two most unfinished products, the "angry guy 1" and "angry guy 2" and push them over more complete wrestlers. It doesn't make sense to me and I feel like there will be backlash.

So what's missing with Gunner? Time. Slow down the push, focus on building him as something, anything, and in time, you might have yourself a future star? Now, just a generic guy with a rushed push.

 

[New Hot Fed]

That is another thing about Gunner that can be ticked off on the list of things you need to be a top wrestler- a great finisher.

The F5 is well known as an awesome finishing move after Lesnar made it famous. Currently, there is no wrestler in any major promotion using the move (to my knowledge) and it has been a few years since anyone used it as a regular finisher. So the time is right for Gunner to bring the F5 back and make it his own.

I think it was a great decision to start using that finisher, I hate when so many wrestlers have almost identical finishers (The Mic Check, Steiner's Flatliner, the one Shelton Benjamin used etc), they dont stand out at all. The F5 does.

Actually the moment I saw him use that move I thought "what an unoriginal second-stringer!". Guys like Crimson and Gunner should use their own move if they want to be distinguished from the pack.

 

[New Hot Fed]

How come when I said this a few months ago, no one listened?

Seriously, I said that he was "angry guy #1" and despite looking competant in the ring, was pretty bland overall and just didn't "wow" me. At the time, everyone was drooling over the guy because he was actually being pushed and I was told he has "it" and whatever else.

I've never thought the guy was bad, just didn't stand out from the pack. Now it's said by the mod and everyone is agreeing with me! Thanks broskis and girlskis for seeing the light!

In all seriousness, I've said it from the beginning, just looking intense for short bursts is not a character, especially as was said in the LD, if you follow it up with unintense promos. A whole character must be formed and for that to happen, TNA and Gunner probably have to figure out what that character is. With that said, I'm pretty sure he shouldn't win the BFG series as a result, because you'd be hardpressed to buy an unfinished product competing for and possibly winning the World Title.

I appreciate the idea of pushing new people, but I've very much been against pushing Crimson and Gunner for the sole reason of what it means to everyone else. You have guys like Morgan, Roode, Styles, Storm, etc. that have spent years cultivating their characters and making them work. Don't turn around and take the two most unfinished products, the "angry guy 1" and "angry guy 2" and push them over more complete wrestlers. It doesn't make sense to me and I feel like there will be backlash.

So what's missing with Gunner? Time. Slow down the push, focus on building him as something, anything, and in time, you might have yourself a future star? Now, just a generic guy with a rushed push.

Excactly. Use the guys that are ready for a push, not the new guys that are not ready and don't deserve it.

 

[blockanWo]

Actually the moment I saw him use that move I thought "what an unoriginal second-stringer!". Guys like Crimson and Gunner should use their own move if they want to be distinguished from the pack.

How many moves in the world of wrestling are actually unique these days?

The F5 is perfectly fine. Noone is currently using the move in either TNA or WWE so hes not stepping on anyones toes. The only person in recent memory to have used it was Brock Lesnar who has since left the industry.

The move has credibility as a high impact finisher its quick, its not overly complicated, it doesnt look like it could be reversed by simply moving 2 steps to the left. He could put his own little twist on it, sure, but I have absolutely no issue with him using it.

The F5 has name recognition, we all know who made it famous and it gets people talking about the new guy using it.

 

[Cracka Jack]

You're totally right, IDR. He's supposed to be "Mr. Intensity", but I can't really say that he's the most intimidating guy around. He needs to be, well, a freaking psycho if they want to get this gimmick over. Make sure we, as fans, know he's the most nuts-out-of-his-mind guy in the whole company, and sell people not knowing exactly what's up with him or what he's capable of.

If not, give him something else as a gimmick. Either way, make sure we know who and what Gunner is. He needs something to work off of, both in the ring and on the mic. The kid's got plenty of potential, but he needs to be built right first.