Greatest Rivalry: MLB

[CH David]

So after the Greatest Rivalry: NFL thread kind of fizzled, I'm guessing because people agreed with me, I started thinking about doing the stupid thing and going for responses and not being true to the thread title. I thought about doing one that is one of the longest rivalries in the game, Cubs vs. White Sox. But it isn't the greatest, and I can't do it just to piss people off and get responses. No, I am going to stick with the greatest, and as per usual, if you disagree, then add your own, but I want why as well. So here we go.

Boston Red Sox vs. New York Yankees

So Yankees vs. Red Sox. Most of us that care about the MLB know the history of this rivalry. I probably need not go into too much detail about it, but I'll do what I can before I say fuck it and then X, a professional on the subject, or anyone else can probably add more stuff if they so choose.

Just a little quick spot on the Boston vs. New York rivalry outside of baseball from Wikipedia, as it could possibly be another part of what makes it such a great rivalry.

Spoiler: wikipedia

Since before the start of the American Revolution, Boston and New York have shared an intense rivalry as cities. For more than a century afterwards, Boston was arguably the educational, cultural, artistic, and economic power in the United States.[3] Boston's location as the closest American port to Europe and its concentration of elite schools and manufacturing hubs helped maintain this image for several decades. During this time period, New York was often looked down upon as the upstart, over-populated, dirty cousin to aristocratic and clean Boston.[3] New York's economic power soon outpaced Boston's in the 1800s due to its rapid population growth and terminus of the Erie Canal, along with massive growth in the manufacturing, shipping, insurance and financial services businesses. By the start of the 20th century this dynamic had completely shifted as New York had become the focus of American capitalism (especially on Wall Street), and the change was reflected in the new national pastime.

Now that that is out of the way. The first times these two teams hooked up on the field, was before the Red Sox were the Red Sox, before the Yankees were the Yankees, and even before they were in New York. Short story shorter, NY Giants didn't want an AL team in New York City, so team started in Baltimore for 2 years. In January 1903 15/16 owners felt there should be an AL team in New York. So the team in Baltimore moved to NY. There the team was named the New York Highlanders as they played on one of Manhattan's highest points.

So the first time they played each other in history was April 26, 1901, as Boston had no official nickname, but was called the Americans, and the Baltimore Orioles, in a 10-6 Oriole victory. Then the actual first game of the Boston vs. New York, rivalry was on May 7, 1903 which was a 6-2 Boston win, in a season which they won the inaugural World Series. In 1907, Boston finally became the Red Sox, and in 1913, New York officially became the Yankees. (having been called Yanks/Yankees as early as 1904)

Both teams have played 2,085 games together, and the Yankees lead the all time series 1115-933-18 during the regular season, and 11-8 in the post season. Combined, they have 33 World Series titles, 26 for the Yankees, 7 for the Red Sox, 51 AL Pennants, From 1903-1918, the Red Sox had won 5 World Series, then going on to their 86 year drought. The Yankees have had obviously more success, gaining 26 World Series titles from 1923-2000. And from 2000-2008, the Red Sox have won 2 more.

The Red Sox have 12 players in the Hall of Fame that have the Red Sox cap on their plaque, and have 33 that have been associated with the team. The Yankees have 22 in the Hall of Fame under Yankee colors, and have 44 that have been associated with the team.

So the main "starting point" that got this rivalry going, has to be the trading of Babe Ruth from the Red Sox to the Yankees for cash considerations. Once this happened, the Red Sox didn't win again for 86 years as we know, and the Yankees went on to have the biggest dynasty in sports. From 1920-1939, the Yankees had won 8 World Series, from 1940-1959 had won 10, and from 1960-2000 had won another 8. All of this had to do with the supposed "Curse of the Bambino".

During the 40s and 50s, there was a good rivalry going between "Joltin'" Joe DiMaggio and "The Kid" Ted Williams. In 1941, Williams hit .406, which is the last time anyone has hit over .400 for a season, and DiMaggio had a 56 game hitting streak, and DiMaggio was awarded the MVP over Williams. However, Ted missed 5 full seasons of baseball due to World War 2 and the Korean War, and DiMaggio was in from 1943-1945. Due to their parts in the war efforts, the rivalry wasn't as great as it potentially could have been. Boston went to one World Series with Williams, however they lost in 7 to the St. Louis Cardinals.

Here are some brawls during the 60s and 70s, plus one from the 50s.

Spoiler: brawls

May 24, 1952: Red Sox outfielder Jimmy Piersall and Yankees second baseman Billy Martin exchange insults before a game in Boston, and end up fighting in the tunnel under the stands. The fight is broken up by Yankees coaches Bill Dickey and Oscar Melillo, and Boston starting pitcher Ellis Kinder.

June 1967: In the first of a two-game series in Yankee Stadium, Red Sox Third Baseman Joe Foy hit a grand slam. In the second game, Yankee pitcher Thad Tillotson threw two brushback pitches at Foy before beaning him in the batting helmet. In the next inning, Rex Sox pitcher Jim Lonborg beaned Tillotson. Both pitchers yelled at each other, and then a brawl ensued. During the fight, Red Sox outfielder Reggie Smith picked up and body-slammed Tillotson to the ground.

August 1, 1973: In a game at Fenway Park, with the score tied 2–2 in the top of the 9th, Yankees catcher Thurman Munson attempts to score from third base on a missed bunt by Gene Michael. He crashes into Red Sox catcher Carlton Fisk, and a fight erupts, with Munson punching Fisk in the face.

May 20, 1976: Yankee outfielder Lou Piniella crashes into Red Sox catcher Carlton Fisk feet first in an attempt to score in the sixth inning of a game at Yankee Stadium. The two benches clear while Piniella and Fisk brawl at home plate. After the fight apparently dies down and order appears to be restored, Sox pitcher Bill Lee and Yankee third baseman Graig Nettles begin exchanging words, and another fight breaks out. Lee suffers a separated left shoulder from the tilt and misses a significant portion of the 1976 season. He would continue to pitch until 1982, but his level of performance is not the same as it was prior to the fight.

Also, in a one game playoff on October 2, 1978 (coincidence) Bucky Dent hits a home run of the Green Monster to clinch the Pennant and go on to eventually win the World Series. This game led to Bucky Dent's new middle name, which would lead to Bucky "Fuckin'" Dent.

Then in 1992, after 11 seasons with the Red Sox, Wade Boggs signs with the Yankees, and in 1996, he wins the World Series that eluded him during his time with Boston. And in 1999, the Yankees would trade David Wells for Roger Clemens, also give him his World Series titles in 1999 and 2000.

Then, 2003 ALCS comes about, and we have Pedro Martinez throw down Don Zimmer. Note: The actual footage is about 40 seconds of this video, you can stop after that. It was either this or just a repeat of Pedro throwing Zimmer down.

[YOUTUBE]Jb8Tpt6lEjg[/YOUTUBE]

During this same ALCS, Red Sox fans got their hearts broken in game 7. With a 5-2 lead in the bottom of the 8th at Yankee Stadium, manager Grady Little decided to leave Pedro Martinez in the game. He then promptly gave up 4 hits and three runs. The game went to extras, and in the bottom of the 11th inning, Aaron Boone struck Tim Wakefield's pitch into the left field stands, and sent the Carmines home heart broken.

The following year, on July 24, Alex Rodriguez gets beaned in the arm by Bronson Arroyo, and starts talking shit on his way to first. Here is some video footage.

[YOUTUBE]UQZTA4q2X9k[/YOUTUBE]

This seemingly was the turnaround to the Red Sox season, and sent them fast paced to the playoffs, to eventually meet their arch rival in the ALC for the 2nd straight year. Started out with the Yankees go up 3 games to none, and all hope seemed lost when the Yankees were 3 outs from going to the WS again. But Mariano Rivera walked Kevin Millar, Dave Roberts stole second and scored on Bill Mueller's single to tie the game. David Ortiz then ripped a two run shot in the bottom of the 12th to give the Red Sox a win. Game 5 ended in similar fashion with Big Papi ending the game in the 14th with a walk off single.

Game 6 possibly known as the "Bloody Sock Game" was pitched by Curt Schilling with sutures in his ankle, and even so, he went 7 strong innings. But it also had controversy, with A-Rod hitting a slow roller being picked up by Bronson Arroyo, and A-Rod slapping the ball out of Arroyo's glove. He was then called out and the fans littered the field with a riot squad now on the field.

Game 7 is history, Red Sox win 10-3, becoming the first team to ever come back from a 3 game deficit and win the series. They also go on to sweep the Cardinals in the World Series for the first time since 1918.

While this has been known to be a heated rivalry, it is also a respectful rivalry between organizations, even choosing to banter one another. Such as each owner, Hank Steinbrenner and John W. Henry.

Spoiler: banter

February 29, 2008 Hank Steinbrenner, the current man in charge of the Yankees, responded in a feisty manner to the popularity of Red Sox Nation in The New York Times newspaper's Play Magazine: "'Red Sox Nation?' What a bunch of (expletive) that is. That was a creation of the Red Sox and ESPN, which is filled with Red Sox fans. Go anywhere in America and you won't see Red Sox hats and jackets, you'll see Yankee hats and jackets. This is a Yankee country. We're going to put the Yankees back on top and restore the universe to order." In response, Red Sox principal owner John W. Henry inducted him into Red Sox Nation, complete with a membership card giving him access to an array of options, including the group newsletter, bumper stickers, pins, Green Monster seats and a hat personally autographed by David Ortiz. Steinbrenner went on to praise Henry's handling of the Red Sox and said they would always be competitive under him.

So a long standing, fiery, but respectful rivalry is made in the Northwest of the United States. Great players have gone through each, some have never won a World Series, while others jumped ship to the Yankees to finally win one. So there you have it again folks. The Greatest Rivalry in the MLB is Yankees vs. Red Sox. You don't think so? Make your case here.

 

[stingerlegends]

Geez, that's a tough one to beat. How 'bout the Giants and Dodgers? Both started in New York and followed each other to Cali to keep it alive. I need to look up some numbers, but I gotta go to work. Living in Silicon Valley, I hear lots of anti-Dodger sentiment here. Bobby Thomson's "Shot Heard 'Round the World" has its place in this rivalry. More to come....

 

[gd]

Great thread Dave, I would rep you right now if I could.

I don't see how there can be any argument against the Sox v. Yankees as the greatest baseball rivalry of all time. I'm not even a fan of either team, but I can't help but get excited whenever these two teams play.

I think it was definetly at its peak in recent years. Everytime these teams played, even if it was just a random game in July, it had a World Series atmosphere to it and it was usually a hell of a game.

The things I remember most are the Aaron Boone game, which I was rather pissed off after, and obviously the 3-0 comeback. The Yankees crushed the Red Sox at Fenway by score of 18-3, or somewhere along those lines.

The Yanks looked unstoppbale and it seemed like they would not only surely make the World Series, but easily win it. The ensuing games were 3 of the best ever, culminating in Damon's Grand Slam in game 7. The World Series agains the Cardinals was a big letdown considering the previous series, but that isn't surprising considering what the Sox had done to get there.

This is definetly one of the most intense rivalries not only in baseball, but in all of sports. Because of the media attention placed on it, especially in New York, and the years upon years of history between these two, its an astonishing atmosphere every time they play.

I'm really hoping for a Sox/Yankees ALCS this year, that would be great not only for the fans in Boston and New York, but for baseball as a whole.

 

[Mr. TM]

It might not be the greatest, but it is an interesting one.

Toronto Blue Jays versus Seattle Mariners, Minnesota Twins, and many border teams.

Toronto is the only baseball team in Canada, and as such, the owners of the team try to present the team as Canada's team. The only problem for that is distance. They are my favourite team (they reeled me in I guess), but I live 5000 kilometers from Toronto. This distance is killer for many fans. People here will probably only see 1-2 Blue Jay games in their life if they are even lucky.

Many people latch on to teams closer by. Seattle is not a far drive from here, so it becomes a team that is heavily cheered here. All my sports friends are Mariner fans, then again, people my age were in there teens when they saw Seattle dominate in 2001.

Another team that a lot of Canadians like I have noticed, my self included is the Minnesota Twins. And perhaps this is due to their location. Most Canadians look at Minnesota as a state like Canada. They love Hockey, they live in the cold, and well, they have a wrestler leading the nation. Having one of the best Canadian players on their team doesn't hurt.

Boston Red Sox are another team that has done well attracting Canadian fans. They have had good teams, attracting Bandwagoners. And with the recent trade that brought in Jason Bay, Canadians are crossing the lines into New England.

 

[stingerlegends]

Dodgers vs. Giants. Okay, Here's my research: First game played on May 19, 1883. The have played each other 2319 times with the Giants leading 1163-1145 with 17 ties. (Must be pre-1901). The Dodgers have won 6 WS and the Giants 5.

In the early 1900's things became bitter as a business issue became personal between John MCraw (Giants) and Charles Ebbets (Dodgers), the respective owners.

1940-Umpire George Magenkurth was brutally beaten by a Dodger fan for a "pro-Giants" call, plus their have been at least two fan-on-fan homicides caused by this rivalry.

Jackie Robinson retired when the Dodgers announced they planned to trade him to the Giants. Willie Mays refused to accept a trade to the Dodgers, and went to the Mets instead in 1972.

The pennant race in 1951 ended with the Shot Heard 'Round the World, one of the most famous Home Runs, hit by Bobby Thomson.

There have been 11 1-2 finishes between the teams since 1961, many times coming down to the final week.

 

[X]

Yeah, sorry fans of other MLB teams, but this isn't even an argument. The Red Sox-Yankees rivalry is not only easily the greatest baseball rivalry of all time, it's one of the greatest sports rivalries of all time, possibly the greatest (atleast in American sports). They define sports rivalry, and have for a century now. No argument could really be made for other teams. Really, this isn't even a debatable topic. It's Sox-Yankees, easily. Hopefully we'll see this great rivalry renewed again during the ALCS this year.

 

[CH David]

X, of course it is one of the greatest rivalries in all of sports, American or not. It is the greatest rivalry in baseball, which is saying something as there are quite a few good rivalries. It can be argued as the greatest of all sports, just like I could argue Bears vs. Packers, Red Wings vs. Blackhawks suspic, Lakers vs. Celtics, etc. Besides, you should know we can debate almost anything, hell, I could argue for Cubs vs. White Sox, may be a losing debate, but I could still debate it. But yes, Red Sox vs. Yankees is the Greatest Rivalry of the MLB. And no compliments on it? I guess it isn't good in X's eyes.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Everyone knows what the correct answer is here, and I'm ashamed that no one has mentioned it yet:

That's right, my St. Louis Cardinals and the Chicago Cubs. These teams first faced off in 1885, and have played over 2,200 games against one another. These two teams are almost always battling for the National League Central Division title. The teams don't like each other, granted without the knockdown drag out fights from the Yankees/Sox, and the fans pull no punches in debates.

I will leave you guys with two quotes about the rivalry that I found on Wikipedia:

The Red Sox and Yankees is a tabloid-filled soap opera about money and ego and sound bites. But the Cubs and Cardinals are about... geography and territorial rights.

I grew up in Champaign, Illinois, midway between Chicago and St. Louis. At an age too tender for life-shaping decisions, I made one. While all my friends were becoming Cardinals fans, I became a Cub fan. My friends, happily rooting for Stan Musial, Red Schoendienst, and other great Redbirds, grew up cheerfully convinced that the world is a benign place, so of course, they became liberals. Rooting for the Cubs in the late 1940s and early 1950s, I became gloomy, pessimistic, morose, dyspeptic and conservative. It helped out of course that the Cubs last won the World Series in 1908, which is two years before Mark Twain and Tolstoy died. But that means, class of 1998, that the Cubs are in the 89th year of their rebuilding effort, and remember, any team can have a bad moment

 

[The Brain]

I am a huge Cubs fan, but for some reason I never got into the Cubs/Cardinals rivalry. I would say the obvious choice is Red Sox/Yankees given all the history between the two. However, I think the rivalry has died down a little since the Red Sox won the World Series. The rivalry was always about how the Red Sox would come so close, but the Yankees would always knock them down. When the Red Sox finally beat the Yankees and won the World Series it seemed to be an unofficial end to the rivalry.

I also like the Giants/Dodgers rivalry. As mentioned before both teams started in New York and moved to California at the same time. A rivalry moving across country and continuing without missing a beat is pretty unique. For Jackie Robinson to choose retirement instead of playing for his rival says a lot.

Overall Red Sox/Yankees is #1 followed closely by Giants/Dodgers. Twins/Tigers could become a rivalry now that Minnesota has taken the divsion title away from Detroit on the last day of the season twice in four years. And lately the Red Sox are to the Angels what the Yankees were to the Red Sox. The Angels are about to win game 1 and I'm hoping they can finally beat the Sox in October.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

St. Louis Cardinals and the Chicago Cubs. These two teams have been going at it for 125 years and have met over 2000 times with a near identical record of 1082-1038 with 17 draws in the regular season, edge to Chicago, which is fitting because the first match up in 1885 went to a draw. The post season meetings go to the Cardinals 6-2. The Cards-Cubs rivalry is different from others because it has almost always been just about the game and respect. A few instances of that was in 2002 when Darryl Kile died of a heart attack and in 2007 when Josh Hancock died in a drunk driving accident, both tragedies happened during 3 game sets with the Cubs and both times the Cubs showed the upmost respect to the Cards and their fans by postponing the games til a later date. Another reason why the Cardinals and Cubs have the best rivalry was the Homerun Race of 1998 between Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa, granted in hindsight it was mared in controversy, got people interested in baseball again after the strike of 1994. It was only fitting that Big Mac broke Roger Maris' record during a Cards-Cubs game. A few stats: 10-2 World Series titles Cardinals, 21-10 MVP Cardinals, Cy Young 4-3 Cubs, Rookie of the Year 6-4 Cardinals, Manager of the Year 4-2 Cubs, Gold Gloves 79-37 Cardinals, Silver Slugger 25-20 Cardinals, Hall of Fame 11-9 Cardinals. All of these reasons are why I think that the Cardinals-Cubs rivalry is the best rivalry in baseball. The reason I go with this and not the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is because I think that their rivalry gets played up alot more because New York is the media capital of the world and ESPN is East Coast biased so it gets way more coverage and gets put over as the end all be all in sports.