Grade The Feud: CM Punk VS The Rock

[Jack-Hammer]

With last night's win, The Rock moves on from his current program with CM Punk to his meeting with John Cena at WrestleMania. That is, unless CM Punk is placed in the title match at WM as well. At any rate, last night pretty much marks the end of their 1 on 1 feud at least.

A lot of people have been anticipating this feud since Raw 1,000 when Punk started his slow heel turn by laying out The Rock with the GTS. When The Rock made his return early this year, it led to, in my opinion, a couple of very entertaining promo segments featuring the two. CM Punk & Paul Heyman have given some of the best mic work of their careers and The Rock was his usual charismatic self. Personally, I enjoyed Punk more as he was more than able to hold his own with The Rock. Punk kept to his own style and didn't worry about all the various insults, some of which are stuff straight out of freshman year in high school, get to him. I enjoy The Rock's stuff because of his charisma, confidence & delivery, though I do agree that some of his stuff feels a bit dated.

As for their two matches, I personally thought their match last night was much better than their Rumble encounter. Their Rumble match had its moments but I thought it ultimately didn't protect CM Punk enough in the loss that we all knew was coming. Also, it seems to me that The Rock has lost a couple of steps in the ring. He looks great and still did a solid job, but the cardio conditioning just hasn't been there for The Rock to really go all out with Punk. I thought the WWE did a much better job of protecting Punk last night. At one point in the match, Punk had The Rock beat but without a ref to make the count and kicked out of Rock's two finishers.

Has this feud been an unforgettable epic? Not hardly. I think it's been a strong feud all in all, but it hasn't been one for the ages I don't think. I think a big part of that, in my opinion, has to do with the fact that many of us, me included, have some unreal expectations sometimes. Sometimes, we expect every promo segment to be the stuff that dreams are made of and every match one that people will talk about decades from now with reverence. The fact of the matter is that situations & matches like that only come along very rarely. Every match can't be Taker vs. HBK at WM 25 & 26 or Punk vs. Cena at MITB 2011.

Grade: B

Guys, this is NOT a thread for discussing their Elimination Chamber matchup. We already have a thread for that in the WWE PPV section. The purpose of this thread is to grade/discuss their FEUD as a whole. Any deviation from the topic will result in posts being deleted and possible warnings/infractions. Please stick to this topic.

 

[MCMG]

This feud is just missing something. I honestly can't think what but it just doesn't feel memorable. I'm not saying it's not a good feud because it has been - its just lacking of something. Just over a month of interaction isn't long enough for it to be memorable.

I don't think that anyone will remember this in a few years. It will be Punks reign as well Cena/Rock at mania that will be remembered . It will be simply a fun fact.

This feud had to happen and Punk perhaps deserved it but it just isn't what it could have been. Their two matches were average at best: the only good thing they did was make the WWE championship desirable. Last year the WWE championship match was overshadowed: at least at WM29 it won't be. You can say this feud is partly the reason for this.

Grade: B

 

[LODemolition]

I'll give it a B-. For this being a feud they foreshadowed 6 months ahead of time, it did not deliver like I thought it would. I really believed it would be epic, and it fell very short of that imo. The 2 best mic men in WWE had a couple good promos, but they've definitely given much better performances than they did during this feud. It was not bad by any means, but I think with the problem was that most of us had such high expectations for it that maybe never could've been met. Certain parts were just very forced and seemed unnatural, and that bugged me. Like with Punk running down to brawl with Rock after his concert. The heel doesn't attack the face when he's prepared, that's common knowledge in wrestling.

The highlights of this feud for me were actually when Rock was banned from the arena. Those segments with the cops were entertaining and had a very Attitude era feel to them. The Shield attacking Rock while Punk watched from the skybox was good too, Rock sold that great with spitting up blood. Finally, Punk's promo at the opening of Raw the night after the Rumble was excellent. Other than these 3 moments, I don't think it's something that will really stick with me as being unforgettable.

 

[CubsFanFrank]

The trouble with this feud is that we all know how it's going to end. Maybe it lasts another few weeks with Punk getting a few good shots in, but it won't last much longer. In the end it's pretty obvious that when Wrestlemania rolls around, The Rock will be keeping the title warm for Cena.

 

[LayCold]

I think The Rock really did well on the mic. I'm not going to say he carried CM Punk on the mic but just compare with his feud against John Cena in 2012, you can see that he put over CM Punk, show him as a real threat, as a serious competitor.
The matches were good. I don't think they were incredible and that I'm going to watch them again in the future but I liked them, some good moments and The Rock, same if he isn't as good as before was alright on the ring ( CM Punk isn't Chris Benoit also^^ )

But if the three workers did everything perfectly, the bookers were idiotics once again. They did nothing surprising, nothing that make us say " Oh ... My ... God !!!! ". They were just lazy and did story everybody could came up with ....

Grade : B-

 

[JBM]

Yeah I never really got into this feud. There were some enjoyable parts to it, but I kept finding myself waiting for The Shield or Brock Lesnar to somehow be involved, which also made it a let down. The matches were mediocre at best, and I think it's on the rock. The indy wrestlers have a different style then what The Rock grew up with and it showed. Even on the mic, I hand the feud to Punk over Rock. Punk delivered, while Rock just gave us that same ole' stuff. The way Rock talks, is great and entertaining as hell. But Punk delivers a story outside the words he's speaking that makes him truly..."the best in the world". This, coming from a guy who wasn't much of a punk fan until this feud started.

I give the feud a B-. But the only reason it's that high, is because of Punk's performance. If it were Rock and anyone else it would be in the D to C- range.

 

[boywithbluehanger]

Their feud was not based on anything in my opinion. There was a deeper route to go with it in that Punk had called out The Rock when he gave his gimmick altering promo in 2011, calling "Dwayne" an ass kisser. Then much later in 2012, he said that The Rock wasn't worthy of a championship title shot because he's a part timer at best. Then, he said that he wouldn't bitch about him not being at shows (in the manner of John Cena). Finally, they get to start their feud months later, and NONE of that prior stuff is brought up by Punk!! The continuity and purpose of their rivalry had no backbone and was just forced in hope to be the final thing that gets Punk over as a heel. But in my opinion, it failed. Punk has failed at being a heel in his current gimmick and without Heyman, there really isn't much need for anyone to boo him. The Rock on the other hand has been solid as a face and is the only real saving grace in this feud.

The Rock's no longer at his best on the mic but given the way these storylines are now days where embracing a bizarre gimmick is suddenly unworthy of a WWE championship caliber wrestler, he's done a very good job at keeping the elements of his face persona that work and doing away with the ones that are no longer welcome by today's standards. I think that the basis of their feud is a weak one because of the lack of focus on any one true thing that either felt the need to prove or redeem from.

Grade: C

 

[BaconBits]

I will give it a C.

I just don't think it had a quality build,even though it was months in the making. I understand that with The Rock's crazy hectic movie schedule that it's going to be next to impossible to flesh out feuds they way they really should be, but the whole feud seemed thrown together and didn't have a good start. I don't blame the wrestlers for it, though, I blame creative. Punk and Rock did do they best they could with the limited time they were given.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I'd give it a B-. I actually think the feud was better than John Cena vs. Rock (at least what we've seen of that feud so far). The Punk marks want to go out of their way to keep bashing The Rock and refuse to give him any credit for anything but I believe this feud brought out the best in Punk. I think Punk was better on the mic in this feud than any of his recent feuds, including the feud with Jericho leading into WM last year. The Rock is a great talker and has such a contrasting style from Punk that this really brought out Punk's A game. Certainly Punk gets credit for that but Rock also has to get some of the credit too. If Punk was in a feud with a terrible talker, would he have been that great on the mic, no.

The matches themselves weren't top-notch but they weren't terrible either. I feel like there should be one more match, like a Hell in a Cell match, to bring this feud into the A range. Obviously, that won't happen but that's why I'm not giving it an A.

I thought they set up this feud really well with Punk hitting the GTS on Rock, at RAW 1,000. It wasn't just a feud that randomly came out of nowhere.

One final comment on the feud: Please stop saying that Rock says the same thing everytime and Punk doesn't. Punk basically says the same thing that EVERY mega heel has said over the years. "I don't need the fans." "You fans are dumb." "I get no respect" yada yada yada. It's amazing to me how many people don't realize this. Punk is delivering it really well, as I mentioned above. BUT it's nothing new at all, neither is the character. EVERY mega heel has and will continue to do this.
Rock is Rock. He's going to stick with that character and not change it, nor does he have to. In the attitude era, we all thought it was the greatest thing ever now suddenly it's "boring" and "the same" simply because Rock is feuding with everyone's newest hero.

I don't knock down the grade of this feud based on Rock's character or Punk's character. I'm grading it based on their interactions, matches, hype, etc. It's unfair to grade a feud based on a guy's character.

 

[Underfaker]

Grade C for me I'm afraid! It wasn't terrible but not memorable, I thought the promo work was good, but the matches weren't great for my taste. They worked them solidly, but I was expecting the matches to be more ... epic I suppose (It may have been better if it wasn't for the unfortunate Spanish announce table botch at RR).

Anyway, it wasn't the matches that made me give the feud a C. It was when Rock won the title at RR and Cena won the RR match itself, we then all knew what was going to happen at Wrestlemania. It took away all the 'what if' element of this feud, and made it less engrossing.

Solid mic and ring work form some experienced guys, but i feel it was booked all wrong.

 

[dakikko049]

For me it's hard to rate this feud highly when at its core, the story that it told was pretty weird. On one hand you had Punk, a guy who is different to most other champions the industry has had, who became popular for being the best wrestler in the world and didn't have to rely on "the machine" to get to where he is today, and he has always voiced this. He has also often talked about how he dislikes how the WWE is full of people acting phony to get popularity and success in the WWE, whereas he is himself.

Now you would think that all of these traits are the makings of a rebellious face of the people, but no. The face in the feud was a movie star. He got successful in the WWE at a fairly young age, before using his success to help catapult him into Hollywood where he really made a name for himself. He then decided to come back, and was handed main events int big PPVs for no reason by the chairman of the company, who it should be noted also actively tried to take the title off Punk by making him face Cena and Ryback multiple times. Then once the rock did come back, he made fun of Vickie and Paul Heyman calling them fat, and said Punk has no balls, as well as other jokes, all while Punk was wrestling most weeks.

Now when you look at the feud like this, it honestly leaves me scratching my head how Punk can be the almighty villain, that will be remembered for all time. Despit the great promos he cut, the intensities both men brought and no matter how good the matches were, there is no way this can go down as a memorable feud.

Grade C

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

This feud is just missing something. I honestly can't think what but it just doesn't feel memorable. I'm not saying it's not a good feud because it has been - its just lacking of something. Just over a month of interaction isn't long enough for it to be memorable.

I don't think that anyone will remember this in a few years. It will be Punks reign as well Cena/Rock at mania that will be remembered . It will be simply a fun fact.

This feud had to happen and Punk perhaps deserved it but it just isn't what it could have been. Their two matches were average at best: the only good thing they did was make the WWE championship desirable. Last year the WWE championship match was overshadowed: at least at WM29 it won't be. You can say this feud is partly the reason for this.

Grade: B

I think what was missing was the feeling that they truly couldn't stand each other and wait to get their hands on one another on PPV. When I think of great feud buildups like Austin/Bret, Austin/HHH, HHH/Taker1, there was always attacking from behind in the backstage area, cheap shots, etc

I mean this feud had some of that, especially in the last week with Punk stealing the title. But I feel like they should have done more with that angle and earlier on in the feud as well, instead of the last week. It may have to do with Rock only being on every other show, instead of every week.

But I would have liked to have seen them kick it up to the next level by showing how much they couldn't stand each other and trying to attack each other everywhere and anywhere. I don't know, maybe that's just me, but the feud was missing a little bit of that physical/can't wait to kick your ass hatred.

Overall I'd probably give it a B as well.

 

[Da Solo]

I'm gonna be more positive than anyone and say that feud has been a great one. The mic work is stellar as expected, the matches were decent and the dynamic between the two is honestly better than Rock/Cena. There are, however, three big things that hold back this feud from being the legendary meeting of the minds it should between two of WWE's greatest mic workers.

1. The marks are ruining it. I've said often how expectations can ruin the ride, but when those expectations are constantly griped about, it just makes you want to not watch the two so that no one else could whine. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with the choosing sides between Punk and Rock, but it's getting out of hand. With Rock/Cena it was cool: as two faces feuding, you're obligated to pick a side. But Punk/Rock have an excellent heel dynamic, and it's getting annoying when Punk fanboys are running down everything that doesn't favor Punk, and trying so hard to convince us that Punk is a better mic worker than the Rock. Regardless of your opinion, don't go overboard with it like the fat kid from YouTube, or the old man who got shot.

2. The matches are booked way too safe. One thing I will say is that they are always booked equally matched: Punk needed interference to get Rock down at RR, but he had Rock out for like 10 seconds at EC when the ref went down. The actual movement is too much of Punk dominating with rest holds with Rock having interjections of spastic movement. Granted, the Rock cannot work a match as well as he could in his days, but let him have a match like he did with Cena at WM or Awesome Truth at Survivor Series. Give him even offense. I also think maybe they just don't mesh well in the ring. It is possible: though Punk is one of their best workers, sometimes he just doesn't mesh well with another good worker (i.e. the Undertaker feud), it's not a knock on him either. And Rock can still sell flames to hell, but to make the man have his first 4 matches in 7 to 10 years hit the 45 minute to an hour mark, obviously some rust will show.

3. We all know what it's leading to: Twice in a lifetime, the match no one wants to see. I bet if this wasn't the case, they'd be singing the praises of this feud.

So overall, I'd give this feud a B+ to an A-, because the the booking surrounding it has been questionable, the workers themselves are playing it up as much as possible.

 

[Iron Mike Gonzo]

I don't get all you marks for CM Punk. He was a disgrace as a champion. To be the best in the world, you have to win your matches without help from Brad Maddox, Paul-E or the Shield. Let's face it, John Cena is the WWE right now. Unfortunately for Cena, he does not have that fued to define him (i.e. HHH vs HBK, Bret Hart vs Austin, etc.) Vince has done a terrible job of creating new stars lately which is why he had to bring in re-treads like the Rock and Jericho to sell the Main Event for not one but two Wrestlemanias. Punk's act is tired. I say that Vince needs to push the young stars and see if any of them can rise to the occasion like Cena did so many years ago. I was a little diisappointed that Vince couldn't do more with John Morrison's or Ted Dibiase's characters. I think Ziggler can be the man if he is pushed right and put in the right fueds. Oh and for you people defending Punk's size, let's face it. Size matters. Other than HBK and Jericho, name a World Champion under 230 lbs that had a meaningful title run. No one is going to buy a 220 lb Punk (if that) beating a 300 lb Undertaker, much less a 270 lb Ryback. It is what it is.

 

[Odisho]

At best both of they're matches earned a C-. The matches were horrible and meaningless. Boring. What's wrong with wrestling fans now. I can't believe u guys are actuaally giving their fued a B. Cm punk and the rock are bad wrestlers. Both of them need to be carried in a match.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

I don't get all you marks for CM Punk. He was a disgrace as a champion. To be the best in the world, you have to win your matches without help from Brad Maddox, Paul-E or the Shield.

Said like a true mark.

He's a heel. That's what heels do. Since the beginning of wrestling, heels always cheated to retain the title. Go look up Ric Flair and the "Dusty Swerve".

Hell, go back and watch the Rock as heel in 1999. Or Triple H as a heel in late 1999/2000. You'd be surprised at how easy it is to replace your sentence with Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon, and D-X instead of Maddox, Heyman and the Shield..

At best both of they're matches earned a C-. The matches were horrible and meaningless. Boring. What's wrong with wrestling fans now. I can't believe u guys are actuaally giving their fued a B. Cm punk and the rock are bad wrestlers. Both of them need to be carried in a match.

This is just a laughable comment.

CM Punk needs to be carried in a match? Oh how amazing those two matches could have been if John Cena was there to carry them both. CM Punk has gotten passable matches out of Ryback for crying out loud. He does the carrying.

 

[gank]

I grade it B+ , could go to A- if Taker wont be at Mania and Punk goes into a triple threat. But it was 100 times better then Cena/Rock. If that doesn't happen and Punk goes against Taker i HOPE that Punk and Shield beat the living hell out of this two tonight on RAW, just to give Punk some momentum for Mania.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I'm gonna be more positive than anyone and say that feud has been a great one. The mic work is stellar as expected, the matches were decent and the dynamic between the two is honestly better than Rock/Cena. There are, however, three big things that hold back this feud from being the legendary meeting of the minds it should between two of WWE's greatest mic workers.

1. The marks are ruining it. I've said often how expectations can ruin the ride, but when those expectations are constantly griped about, it just makes you want to not watch the two so that no one else could whine. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with the choosing sides between Punk and Rock, but it's getting out of hand. With Rock/Cena it was cool: as two faces feuding, you're obligated to pick a side. But Punk/Rock have an excellent heel dynamic, and it's getting annoying when Punk fanboys are running down everything that doesn't favor Punk, and trying so hard to convince us that Punk is a better mic worker than the Rock. Regardless of your opinion, don't go overboard with it like the fat kid from YouTube, or the old man who got shot.

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't understand why these marks think that if you give Rock or anyone else credit, you're trashing Punk. They act like if they say "yeah Rock wrestled a good match" or "he was good in that promo" that somehow that's dissing CM Punk. It's ridiculous. Admitting that other wrestlers are good or that another guy, even an opponent of Punk, did something good, is not dissing CM Punk and doesn't make you less of fan. That's what these marks need to understand. People are still saying Rock says the same thing week in and week out (meanwhile so does CM Punk). People are still saying Rock was handed these main events (completely disregarding his stature and place in WWE history. This isn't Joe Six Pack off the street, it's one of the all time greats).

 

[Papa Pillman]

If we're grading everything, the feud gets a slight bump due to some decent promo work from both guys(especially Punk), but the matches killed the program.

The match at RR the Rock gassed terribly, and Punk was given the same assignment as Cena from WM last year: put Rocky on your shoulders and try to carry him across the finish line and try to salvage something passable. Cena and Punk have to be commended for valiant efforts in those encounters, but they just weren't fully capable of making the Rock, or ultimately the match, live up to the hype.

Last night at EC was far worse. To try and insure that Rock had enough in the tank to pull strongly through the finishing stretch, they worked the most distractingly slow-pace possible.

The match crawled. It was mind-numbing. Please don't try and classify any of that pace as "psychology". It was flat out simple... let's work the most snail-crawlingly deliberate opening ten minutes known to man, and perhaps we can have the Rock look strong enough at the end to keep that as the memory of the match. It didn't work. The memory of the match is that Rocky as a worker is a shell of what he was a decade ago.

This new era Rock has four matches under his belt. He is 0-for-4. He simply isn't in ring condition and working one match every few months with a few behind-the-scenes ring workouts shoved between filmings and press tours as preparartion isn't cutting it. It really isn't fair to guys like Cena and Punk to have all the success of the quality of these hugely hyped matches be fully burdened on them because the guy they're working with is physically incapable of doing his part in the match.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

The match crawled. It was mind-numbing. Please don't try and classify any of that pace as "psychology". It was flat out simple... let's work the most snail-crawlingly deliberate opening ten minutes known to man, and perhaps we can have the Rock look strong enough at the end to keep that as the memory of the match. It didn't work. The memory of the match is that Rocky as a worker is a shell of what he was a decade ago.

This new era Rock has four matches under his belt. He is 0-for-4. He simply isn't in ring condition and working one match every few months with a few behind-the-scenes ring workouts shoved between filmings and press tours as preparartion isn't cutting it. It really isn't fair to guys like Cena and Punk to have all the success of the quality of these hugely hyped matches be fully burdened on them because the guy they're working with is physically incapable of doing his part in the match.

From a pure wrestling match standpoint, you may be right, Rock isn't what he used to be. But from a physical standpoint, he is in the best shape of his life and would snap CM Punk like a twig without even breaking a sweat, in a real fight. However, wrestling a match isn't just about physical ability and we've seen that in the Rock since his return.

Stop talking about "fairness." This business isn't about being fair, it's about making money which is what the Rock does for WWE. Furthermore, Undertaker can't even walk but he main events WM every year. Are you complaining about him? What about Triple H? Brock Lesnar?

 

[joduke41]

I give it a B.Couldve been way better had we not known it was going to end with the Rock vs Cena at Wrestlemania.Both guys were good on the mic.Doing what they do best.I really think if CM Punk and Rock wouldve done the angle with out getting notes from the back,the fued would've been awesome.The matches were good considering the attention span of your average wrestling fan.It was how we expected it to go down with Vince Jerry Jones-ing everything thing.Now we get stuck with Cena's stale schtick and Hollywood Johnson again.

 

[Papa Pillman]

From a pure wrestling match standpoint, you may be right, Rock isn't what he used to be. But from a physical standpoint, he is in the best shape of his life and would snap CM Punk like a twig without even breaking a sweat, in a real fight. However, wrestling a match isn't just about physical ability and we've seen that in the Rock since his return.

No argument here. The Rock is incredible shape muscularly. But carrying all that muscle also doesn't help his cardio issues. There is a difference in looking like a spectatcularly impressive physical specimen(which the Rock clearly does now) and being in "ring shape" which the Rock clearly is not.

Stop talking about "fairness." This business isn't about being fair, it's about making money which is what the Rock does for WWE. Furthermore, Undertaker can't even walk but he main events WM every year. Are you complaining about him? What about Triple H? Brock Lesnar?

I don't mean fair like "how dare they put Rock over at the expense of the full-time stars", I realize that what sells is what is going to be sold. I mean fair like these matches have been built and hyped through the roof around a wrestler who obviously can't hold his own and all the pressure is on the Punk and Cena to kill themselves trying to create an illusion that this isn't the case. They need to figure out a way to get Rock to understand how bad he looks in these matches. At this point if nothing changes and they do go through with Rock/Lesnar this summer, the potential is for the worst quality SummerSlam main event match in history accompanying the show's biggest ever buy-rate. That is ultimately a black mark for the business.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

No argument here. The Rock is incredible shape muscularly. But carrying all that muscle also doesn't help his cardio issues. There is a difference in looking like a spectatcularly impressive physical specimen(which the Rock clearly does now) and being in "ring shape" which the Rock clearly is not.


I don't mean fair like "how dare they put Rock over at the expense of the full-time stars", I realize that what sells is what is going to be sold. I mean fair like these matches have been built and hyped through the roof around a wrestler who obviously can't hold his own and all the pressure is on the Punk and Cena to kill themselves trying to create an illusion that this isn't the case. They need to figure out a way to get Rock to understand how bad he looks in these matches. At this point if nothing changes and they do go through with Rock/Lesnar this summer, the potential is for the worst quality SummerSlam main event match in history accompanying the show's biggest ever buy-rate. That is ultimately a black mark for the business.

Thanks for clarifying. I get your points now. As for the fairness thing, I agree, it is "unfair" to build up a match and a feud the way they have when one guy can't hold his own in the ring. Rock is athletic but not in the "in ring" kind of way so it does look awkward in these matches. I think he looked more rusty or "out of ring shape" against Punk than Cena. Cena is in amazing ring shape for a muscular-build style of wrestler. I think Punk and Rock's contrasting styles is what made Rock look worse in the ring but there really was no way around it and WWE took a chance.

 

[j2early]

my only issue with this fued is that we all knew the rock would win both matches. when you are sure someone will win it makes the fued a whole lot less interesting.

 

[Silver Fox]

I am a huge Punk fan, i really only watch the parts of Raw that he is involved in. Having said that, i felt a bit let down by this feud. It seemed to lack a certain intensity the whole time. I think this is down to how Punk has been booked.

The coward heel has been done to death now. For once it would have been nice to have a dominant heel champion who is not a monster (Mark Henry). Have punk dominate due to his wrestling skill, and live up to the 'best in the world' moniker. Then when Rock returns people will actually buy into what Punk is saying.

Instead, we had 4 months of Punk winning via DQ and interference. Once the stipulation for RR was made, and then with Cena winning the RR match, it just felt like this was something to keep The Rock busy up until 'Mania. The 2 matches they had were nothing special either. Rock's piss poor conditioning didn't help, it really limited the 2 of them in the ring. Having said that, he did the best he could with the short amount of time he had available to train.

All in all, this won't live long in the memory. Punks feud with Cena has been his best, and this was miles off of that. However it provided enough decent TV over the past few weeks to keep viewers entertained, so in that aspect it did its job fairly well.

Grade: C