Going From TNA to WWE: What's the Problem?

[fenfool]

So with news of Kharma (Awesome Kong) being released from WWE, after a few run-ins and a Royal Rumble appearance spread over about 18 months, it gives me pause for thought. What is the problem with TNA athletes going to WWE? Has any TNA talent really succeeded? Looking back, Monty Brown, AKA Marcus Cor Von, had a couple of ECW matches before he vanished; Wildcat Chris Harris, AKA Braden Walker, lasted about a month in ECW; Kazarian lasted a month on Velocity before asking for his release. Lo Ki, AKA Kaval...maybe is more of an independent than a TNA guy, but he did have a few good TNA runs...he won NXT season 2, and lasts a few months on Smackdown before asking for HIS release. Lance Hoyt/Vance Archer lasted about a year in a fairly unmemorable run.

We get could get into Gail Kim...she was in WWE for a bit, then had an excellent run in TNA before going to WWE, and languishing for a while before the infamous self-elimination from the Diva Battle Royal and returning to TNA. Guys like Christian and Ron Killings had WWE success before coming to TNA, having a good run, and returning...but they were already WWE guys, basically.

So what is the issue...is it the people, is it the TNA atmosphere, is it WWE? Does the easier schedule ruin them for the WWE grind? Are these wrestlers who were just used as well as they could have been in TNA, and didn't live up to WWE standards? What do you think? And who else transitioned from TNA to WWE that I missed who was successful?

 

[New Hot Fed]

Part is WWE having a bias against TNA talent(if they didn't work there, why would they work here?). Also I think it's because WWE are looking for different things as far as talent and how to get people over. I just wish Truth and CC returns to TNA at some point.

 

[Mantis]

It could partly be due to the rough transition of going from an easier schedule to a tougher one and having to "start over". But it's most likely due to Vince not wanting to let TNA talents that he didn't create go over on his guys. Same reason why most WCW/ECWs talents never duplicated their success in WWE.

 

[klunderbunker]

Let's take a look at every person you just listed:

Cor Von: Personal issues, left to take care of young relatives.

Harris: Showed up out of shape and had the name Braden Walker. At the end of the day, there's nothing interesting about Harris as he's a guy in trunks. He was awesome in a tag team and that's about it.

Kaz: Left because WWE had no interest in pushing Cruiserweights anymore. The division was worthless in just a few months and became nothing but filler. Why stay?

Low Ki: Famous for burning bridges in every company he goes to and currently is in the indies and Japan now. Also, you can only get so far in WWE by just being able to kick.

Lance Hoyt: Did nothing in TNA, did nothing in WWE either. This is an issue why?

Gail: She's a Diva and has been boring beyond belief on this run in TNA. Female wrestlers have almost no place in WWE and Gail is less attractive than most of the Divas anymore.

Christian and Truth have won multiple titles since returning to WWE.

Kharma: Pregnant and see the reason for Gail Kim.

In short, it's not because it's WWE. It's because of circumstances either beyond the wrestlers' control or because they didn't fit in WWE. This isn't a big deal.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Part is WWE having a bias against TNA talent(if they didn't work there, why would they work here?). Also I think it's because WWE are looking for different things as far as talent and how to get people over. I just wish Truth and CC returns to TNA at some point.

Pretty much this.

I don't see how this is a hard question to answer. You look at someone who was good in TNA, then he goes to the WWE and he doesn't have that same "thing" he had in TNA, nor is he better or even worse, just not the same, not as interesting or doesn't have as much depth like a Christian Cage for example. What do you think it is? It's the WWE.

I don't think the schedule affects your overall performance that much. It only factors in exhaustion.

The real problem here is the challenge performers face once coming to the WWE and attempting to adjust to the way WWE conducts their business.

TNA talent rarely or never cut fully scripted and rehearsed promos. That is the prime reason why TNA promos feel like actual promos, done on the spot with only pointers given. They feel natural and preserve the characer's individuality since they are the thoughts of the person and not a member of creative.

In the WWE every promo comes from the same individuals who try to get into the roles of the characters they write for but evidently can't since everyone in the WWE sounds the same except for, low and behold, the people whose promos are not scripted as hell.

Then you add the fact that TNA is a more "loose" company in terms of behavior, on and off stage. WWE is far more corporate, far more formal and stricter I would imagine, while TNA is not juggling huge amounts of financial assets and can afford themselves to be a bit more neglient. Having this freedom, if you want to call it, also contributes to your performance. Since wrestlers are actors and artists to a large extent, thus they are individuals who rely heavily on creativity, their creativity is bolstered and welcomed as opposed to the WWE where you're told what to do and not allowed to put your spin on it. Not unless you're one of the top talent and you're trusted. That's why a lot of wrestlers who go from WWE to TNA say that they feel a lot happier. Happiness and satisfaction really alter a performer's work. Look at Jeff Hardy for example. Look at Bully Ray or Christian Cage. Like it or not, TNA gives its employees an easier time and they're not as tense as WWE guys who watch every step they make. That factors a lot into what they do.

And of course you have WWE's in-ring action which is very restricted, very simple and limited. Thus a lot of the matches come out boring. TNA on the other hand lets their guys do pretty much whatever they want and the matches are straight up better.

I see it as limiting a guitar player to only play some chords and not all. Yeah, he's gonna play a song, it's gonna be what you wanted but who knows - maybe if you let him go, let him play all the chords he wanted and use his creativity, MAYBE he'd come up with something better than what you had planned and surprise you. You just can't limit people when it comes to creativity. The whole basis of creativity is freedom. Freedom which the WWE no longer grants, freedom which produced some amazing stuff back in the day. Most wrestlers are not used to that. Not just coming from TNA but especially from the Indies.

Like I said, it's all WWE's fault if you see someone cool from TNA jump to WWE and not perform that well. Even people like The Rock are 50% as entertaining now than they used to be before, let alone some average joe like Christian.

But like Klunder said, the people you mentioned left for other reasons. Not really the best examples but this has happened and when there are no outside factors, WWE's style is at "fault". If you can even call it a fault. It's just how they do business, some guys can't cope with it - they don't perform well. Some on the other hand do. It just depends on what kind of wrestler it is. The majority though seem unable to blossom in THOSE conditions, even their current talent. Too many chains.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Harris: Showed up out of shape and had the name Braden Walker. At the end of the day, there's nothing interesting about Harris as he's a guy in trunks. He was awesome in a tag team and that's about it.

You take that back you son of a bitch!

What I find funny about Harris' run as Walker is the fact he got over after they released him based off YouTube parody videos and images such as the one above. He even appeared as Braden Walker for an indy show a few months back. But yeah, basically everything KB said minus Braden Walker. Braden Walker's a legend and he'll kick your teeth in.

 

[MrHashasheen]

1. Heavier schedule - Anybody who follows the TNA house-show schedule and compares it to the WWE one, realizes that the WWE is double or triple that of TNA, and that's ignoring appearances and television, where TNA tapes and WWE does multiple shows. Most people who've jumped from TNA to WWE have either not felt it as as much(Divas like Kim & Kong who don't exactly work 20 minute matches and aren't spotlight much or legends like Kevin Nash & Mick Foley), or were formerly in WWE (Booker, Christian, etc...). There are however a few young guys who have made the jump like Monty Brown and probably struggled with it.

2. Bigger Crowds - This isn't a taunt to TNA, but they do work with smaller crowd and smaller venues, which means what gets over in TNA might not get over in WWE. It also means that many of the wrestlers who transition from TNA to the WWE will have to preform in front of bigger crowds. Anxiety, difficulty in addressing them in promos, etc...

3. Different Wrestling Styles - TNA workers usually wrestle a faster paced match with more moves thrown in and at times less psychology. Transitioning to the WWE style of scripted matches where you do the basics + your specials in as you start out is a big of a shock to the system no doubt, and retraining yourself into a different style can be impossible after years of wrestling. Look at most of the WCW guys who got sent down to OVW or DSW after the Invasion.

4. Different Wrestlers - TNA wrestlers are fairly different from WWE guys. They're on average smaller, more "indie" and more individualistic, if that makes sense. A lot of the WWE guys are cookie-cutter, muscle-bound brawlers, partially because that's what Vince sees as the prototype wrestler and partially because that's what the audience's used to. (They're not always big men, and yes, a lot of the people on top or going to be on top are smaller, more individualistc and varied than they have been in a long time, but for much of TNA's lifespan that's been the case.) As such when they come in, they've got yet another millstone to carry.

5. They're TNA guys - Vince seems to struggle creatively in pushing talent that's not his own. Look at Austin before he became Stone Cold, or Isaac Yankem/Kane, or most of the WCW & ECW guys that got brought in. Monty Brown got pushed as Marcus Cor Von on ECW and it went nowhere for him. Frankie Kazarian left because there was nothing for the cruiserweight division. Gail Kim left because of the lack of opportunities for the Divas Division.

 

[EdReed]

Other than when Vince first bought WWF and stole the top talent from other promotions, then had them play the exact character they were already famous for, Vince has always buried talent that came in from a competing company. Vince likes it to appear like it's his genius that makes talent. Except for a few exceptions, he has booked them into loosing streaks, given them laughable gimmicks or just plain bland ones. I agree about Karma and Monte Brown, their cases were totally different. There were personal issues that couldn't be avoided.

 

[lil bitch Kid]

@Zeven_Zion: the precise reason why the schedule has an effect on performance is exhaustion. It would seem you have not played any kind of high level physically grueling sport. Exhaustion, be it from travel, performing or any other reason will effect the level of performance. So yes, a primary reason would be adaptation to a heavier schedule.

I really think that the biggest reason, however, is the grand scheme in terms of scope of shows. TNA has come a long way, yes. But, WWE, in a bad house shows, has a bigger gate than TNA PPVs. Performing for a small crowd is easier than a big crowd when you're trying to get over. Not to mention, TNA likely has a large number of returning attendees, which again, makes it easier to seem and feel like a 'big star'.

 

[Tripleb2k1]

Each scenario is different so I will break them down individually:

Kharma - She had gotten pregnant, then miscarried, which accounts for her down time but she basically is being stubborn and guarded regarding her character. Can't be put on tv until you have a creative direction set. she was also said to not be in shape for an in-ring return

Marcus Cor Von - He had left WWE, and wrestling all together due to dealing with family issues...if I had to guess I'd say his wife got ill and he needed to care for his children.

Braden Walker - he shows up a little on the heavy side, not being in peak cardiovascular condition. He tried chalking it up because WWE wouldnt let him use his moves he has in common with established stars. When he talked in segments, he didn't look like a star

Kazarian - he himself recently in an interview admitted that he didn't have the maturity to handle being in WWE and expected to be pushed to the moon, when the WWE audience didnt know who he was.

Kaval - Just because you're on the main roster doesn't mean you're an instant star...not everyone watched him on NXT, ROH, or TNA. so WWE was taking their time and gradually introducing their audience to him. he grew impatient and decided to leave.

Vance Archer - besides his run teaming with Curt Hawkins, nothing really stood out about him

Gail Kim - she already had a chip on her shoulder before she came back. she screwed up big time in 2 matches vs Mickie James, that had Mickie visably upset. 1 was a dive off the top, she smacked her own head off the mat so hard that she was out on her feet. 2 was she forgot what to do, MJ hit the Mick Kick and Gail just stood there so MJ had to shove her over with a forearm so she could pin her as booked...as time grew on Gail was in a perpetual bitch mode

 

[waylon p]

I think that it comes down to the fact that TNA and wwe are two completely different companies.

TNA is a wrestling promotion in the old fashioned sense. They regulularly attempt to put on wrestling shows for wrestling fans. Whether or not they succeed is beside the point. They are a wrestling promotion with a tv show, and everything revolves around the television show.

WWE is a video game company with a sideline in wrestling PPVs. The television show is just an ad for those two things. Vince knows what his product is and how he wants to market it. One cannot deny that he is extremely effective at this.

WWE is the vision of one man who has other considerations than whether someone can wrestle or set the IWC on fire. He also realizes that if a wrestling promotion gets big enough, his video games may Have effective competition. This is unacceptable, so he hires people who look as if other promotions may be building the company around, just in case.
If he can use them, fine. If not, at least he stymied the momentum of a potential future competitor. It is all very intelligent.

I do not play video games, wear t shirts with wrestlers on them, or watch crappy action films. I am a wrestling fan. I watch TNA. As bad they are, at least they are attempting to supply what brought me to the dance. I check in on WWE from time to time, especially if I know Jericho will be on, but that abortive WWE run ECW was still on last time I enjoyed what I saw there. Hell, actually, it may have been since tough enough had season two since I did.

More power to Vince, though. He succeeded on his own terms. Not many can say that.

 

[kor420]

This is very simple. Some people are just better actors, like a soap opera actor reading from a script and some people are just better at improv.

 

[The mind]

I've read these post, found interesting ideas, but it seems everyone has either forgotten, or doesn't know a somewhat famous quote by Kevin Nash.

To answer why TNA talent gets buried in WWE, I offer that quote

"Vince will never push someone he didn't create. That's just how he is, its his ego, that's why guys who were stars in other companies struggle in the wwe."


Monty Brown got repackaged with a terrible name, and circumstances came up where he had to leave. He was never going anywhere in the first place with a horrible name like Marcus Con Vor.

Kaz, Low Ki, all too small for the WWE. Vince likes bigger workers, and has nearly completely ignored the cruiserweight style wrestlers.

I've seen many people here call Gail Kim boring, which I don't get. If you want boring, watch Randy Orton, the guy is as dull as a 20 year old kitchen knife. The problem with Gail Kim is the same thing that arose during her first run. She's a woman who can actually wrestle, and there is no room in the WWE for women who can wrestle (look at how the company has mishandled Nattie Neidhart and Beth Phoenix).

Chris Harris is another guy who was overhauled, given a generic name, and buried on ECW. Harris is nice mid card filler, and the WWE wouldn't even let him be that.

Lance Hoyt was half way there. He is tall, but he's slightly too thin. If he had the body of Batista, we'd be talking about his 4 world title reigns, and how he's main eventing Summerslam.

Awesome Kong failed in the WWE because A, she got pregnant, and B, she's not a barbie doll.

This is why Alex Shelley is going to utterly fail in the WWE. He's going to most likely be given a new ring name, told to stay away from the high flying spots, and have all of his promos written for him ahead of time. Feel free to save this post, because mark my words, one year from now, the Motor City Machine Guns will be reunited in TNA after Shelley, fresh off a few NXT appearances, gets released from the WWE.

 

[Davi323]

Vince will never push someone he didn't create. That's just how he is, its his ego, that's why guys who were stars in other companies struggle in the wwe.

Because Kevin Nash is the authoritative truth about everything?

Let's look at some of the talent Vince DIDN'T create.

CM Punk
Bryan Danielson
Booker T
Ric Flair
Chris Benoit
Alberto Del Rio
Rey Mysterio
Rob Van Dam
Eddie Guerrero
Chris Jericho
Sgt. Slaughter
Goldberg

What do all of these guys have in common? All not only got their start somewhere other than the WWF/WWE, but all enjoyed successful careers outside of the WWF/WWE prior to working for Vince. Some were successful mid-carders, some were bonafide main eventers, and some held world championships before working for Vince.

Oh, and there is one other thing they all have in common. Every single one of these wrestlers who were successful before joining the WWF/WWE won either the WWF, WWE, or World Heavyweight Championship since the time that Vince McMahon became the owner of the WWF/WWE.

The argument that Vince refuses to push anyone he didn't create is a myth, and is complete bullshit, easily disproved. There is a much simpler explanation as to why those ex-TNA wrestlers enjoyed more success in TNA than in the WWE. It's much easier to be a big fish in a small pond than it is to be a big fish in a big pond. Talent rises to the top. If someone in TNA truly has "it", and makes the jump to the WWE, they will get their shot just like everyone else. If Vince can make money off of them, they will get their opportunity. But just because you are "World champion" material in TNA doesn't mean you are "World champion" material for the WWE.

In fact, go take a look at the list of TNA World champions. How many titles went to ex-WWE or WCW wrestlers? There have been 20 total title reigns.

Kurt Angle (5)
Sting (4)
Mick Foley (1)
Rob Van Dam (1)
Jeff Hardy (2)
Mr. Anderson (2)
AJ Styles (1)
Samoa Joe (1)
Bobby Roode (1)
Austin Aries (1)
James Storm (1)

13 of them belong to someone who held either the WWE or WCW championship. 2 of them belong to an individual who was breaking into the main event scene in the WWE, 1 of them went to a former ROH champion, and only 4 reigns belong to what you might call a "TNA Original".

4 out of 20.

Now, to be fair, that list completely ignores the pre-TNA title NWA World Championship reigns of Christian, Sting, Rhino, Raven and Ken Shamrock (first ever NWA/TNA champion), who follow the same pattern. In fact, of all the men who won the NWA title while it was affiliated with TNA, only Abyss can claim the moniker of TNA original. Even Jeff Jarrett, the freaking creator of TNA, can't truly claim that, can he? The only reason he was able to create TNA was by using his career in WCW and the WWF/WWE as selling points to investors.

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

 

[IT Factor]

It is obvious to any wrestling fan who's been watching any amount of time why TNA talents do not make it in WWE. WWE is an entertainment company. TNA is a wrestling company. Big difference. WWE wants actors to sell a story and TNA primarily wants good in-ring workers with no emphasis on entertainment. Plus, McMahon simply doesn't want to use people he didn't create. He will use outside creations if they'll make him money, but not otherwise. Part of it is lack of talent, to be fair. Some of the past TNA talent simply were not good enough to make it in WWE. If talent is great, they will make it reguardless of lousy booking or lack of a push. I guarantee ya, James Storm or Bobby Roode could go to WWE and have bad names and still get over. When two names on that list are Chris Harris and Kaz, TNA will look second-rate by comparision and rightfully so.

 

[lil bitch Kid]

Let's be clear on something here, there have been only a handful to WWE superstars that were 'made' by WWE, and became massive stars. Off the top of my head Angle and Lesnar. These two guys came in with little to no pro wrestling ring time, went through WWE training and became world wide attractions. So, this BS of 'if Vince didn't make them or create the character, they won't have success' is just that, BS. For example, there once was a guy named Mark Calloway who worked for NWA/WCW and used the same move set as a guy Vince renamed the Undertaker.

 

[Azane]

Being successful in the pond won't make you king of the ocean.

As has been posted a couple times before, WWE couldn't use Kharma because she was pregnant and had a tragedy happen that set her back a few more months, That year long contract with 4 appearances because of extraneous circumstances probably was a bad deal for WWE from a strictly business position.

The other stars mentioned weren't even anything big in TNA, they were mid-carders at best in TNA, so of course moving to WWE wasn't gonna make them main eventers. Ron Killings was more of an entertainer than wrestler, he garnered moderate success in WWE, especially considering he was well past his prime when he showed up. Christian, although WWE grown, was made a main-event star in TNA, since his return to WWE he's won multiple main titles including the WHC and ECW title.

There's no bias from Vince, he pushes people as he sees fit, sometimes taking a risk and pushing someone from out of nowhere can payoff (D-Bryan), and sometimes it blows up in his face (Jack Swagger). The talent ceiling on most TNA acquisitions has been limited. Low Ki was entertaining to watch at times, but he would never fit into the WWE main event scene, especially when he was attempting to break in. If someone like Bobby Rhoode or Current AJ Styles (He was nothing special when he was with WWE, he really improved his ability and skills with his time in the 6 sided ring) crossed the line back to WWE, I think they'd be at least upper mid-card, if not Main Event eventually. If there's one thing Vince cares about more than pride, it's money.

 

[Jeritron5000]

Being successful in the pond won't make you king of the ocean.

As has been posted a couple times before, WWE couldn't use Kharma because she was pregnant and had a tragedy happen that set her back a few more months, That year long contract with 4 appearances because of extraneous circumstances probably was a bad deal for WWE from a strictly business position.

The other stars mentioned weren't even anything big in TNA, they were mid-carders at best in TNA, so of course moving to WWE wasn't gonna make them main eventers. Ron Killings was more of an entertainer than wrestler, he garnered moderate success in WWE, especially considering he was well past his prime when he showed up. Christian, although WWE grown, was made a main-event star in TNA, since his return to WWE he's won multiple main titles including the WHC and ECW title.

There's no bias from Vince, he pushes people as he sees fit, sometimes taking a risk and pushing someone from out of nowhere can payoff (D-Bryan), and sometimes it blows up in his face (Jack Swagger). The talent ceiling on most TNA acquisitions has been limited. Low Ki was entertaining to watch at times, but he would never fit into the WWE main event scene, especially when he was attempting to break in. If someone like Bobby Rhoode or Current AJ Styles (He was nothing special when he was with WWE, he really improved his ability and skills with his time in the 6 sided ring) crossed the line back to WWE, I think they'd be at least upper mid-card, if not Main Event eventually. If there's one thing Vince cares about more than pride, it's money.

This is dead on. Also, I think when asking the question why these non major TNA acquisitions couldn't make it in WWE, it's also important to ask why major WWE acquisitions never boosted TNA to a level far beyond where they were before the Superstar jumped ship.

Two prime examples...Kurt Angle and Jeff Hardy. Both very much established main eventers in WWE when they jumped, but it's a whole new game in TNA. Blame it on the booking, the pacing, the style, the Impact Zone, whatever...it's a completely different atmosphere. IMO it's not the wrestler, but the environment in which they are performing in. John Cena could go to TNA and nothing would change.

There used to be that debate. Who made wrestling? Vince or Hogan? I think it's crystal clear the stage on which those perform is the crucial element in creating established stars. And Vince is currently the provider of such a platform.

"Being successful in the pond won't make you king of the ocean." I'm not sure to what level any of these TNA jumps can be considered "successful" nor am I sure to what standard of success they are being measured. Take a look at Kharma. Had things gone according to plan she would have made it in the WWE. They provided her with the environment to which she could thrive. It's also interesting that out of all the wrestlers mentioned who couldn't make it in WWE...which of them are back "making it" in TNA? Kaz?

 

[whoopin' ass]

a large part of it is Vince. He is convinced he is the only one who can make stars. look at all the ROH guys who came over with success and a following that he renamed and repackaged. even guys in wwe are not immune to this. look at Paul Burchill. He was in need of a gimmick and Vince decided on a pirate gimmick so Paul started to develop a Johnny Depp pirate gimmick that was slowing getting notice. why was it pulled? that wasn`t the type of pirate Vince had in mind - he wanted some guy with missing teeth and looking diseased. even when a gimmick is working, Vince thinks he knows better. not saying everyone who went over there should have been a star but there have been enough people from TNA, and from other companies like WCW before, that went over and should have been but couldn`t seem to get a push because Vince gave them some stupid gimmick or worse, just make them generic and took away anything that make them stand out. just remember The Ring Master Steve Austin and Rocky Maivia. these were Vince`s idea too and boy did they set the world on fire.

 

[Headman]

People keep talking about Vince not wanting to push other people's stars, despite the fact that it's been disproven in this thread time and time again. First of all it was pointed out that no one from TNA who deserved to succeed has failed so far. Christian and R-Truth got their pushes. Hell, CM Punk had a cup of coffee in TNA and he's done alright. The TNA guys who didn't make it deserved to fail. As for Vince not pushing WCW guys, wtf do you call Booker T? Booker jumped right into a high profile feud with Austin. The real reason why most TNA guys fail when arriving in the WWE is because they're not very good.

 

[One to Remember]

yea there are so many issues in the Gail situation but her movements were similar to Jeff Jarrett's from 1993-7.. She was always on the move and things got out of hand and unstable..

Truly though we would need to see names like Styles, Joe, Morgan, Rude, and other top TNA alumni to truly test the waters.. The best examples to cite would have to be the treatment of top NWA maineventers like Race and Rhodes jumping to the WWF in the mid 80s to even begin to see what WWE might have in store. You can argue that some ECW top names were big fishes in a small pond as for WCW you might be able to argue they were midcarders there too or that the WWF simply return them to the level they were at during their pre WCW runs in the WWF..

If Samoa Joe comes in to WWE and gets no top spot we know there is a vendetta.