Flair = Heenan

[ramblinroy682]

Could Ric Flair become TNA's version Bobby the Brain Heenan?

What was Heenan's main motivation? Beating Hulk Hogan. No matter who he managed, he had one goal: END HULKAMANIA. He sought out guy after guy to go after him. Andre, King Kong Bundy, Savage, Orndorf, Dibiase, etc all were after Hogan.

Now that AJ is a Face, can Flair be to AJ what Heenan was to Hogan. I think it would be great to see Flair become a true manager. He could keep searching for guys to take out AJ. Some could come closer than others, but AJ could be built to be TNA's ultimate face by consistently knocking off Flairs attackers.

What do you think?

 

[CrayzChris]

Bobby Heenan is my all time favorite wrestling personality of all time. And as good as Flair is, I don't think he could be the next Bobby Heenan.

If we're just talking about storyline...I don't think this is a bad idea.

However, what really annoys me about Flair is that as a "Manager" he has not been able to put anyone over. He has not elevated anyone's career. Flair is constantly talking about himself.

Bobby Heenan was great at what he did, and will go down in history as the greatest manager of all time - because he was able to transfer all of his heat onto the men he managed. It just seems that if Flair had an issue with Styles, we would be looking forward to a Flair vs. Styles match, instead of Flair's protege's vs. Styles.

Flair just doesn't seem ready to take the attention off of himself just yet; which is a shame, because he could be a huge asset to the company by elevating some of these younger guys.

 

[Rasha]

Nice comparison! It would make a lot of sense. Not only does Flair's rub help just about any guy he'd be managing, but the vendetta would put AJ over as well. Remember when Flair was in the ring with Immortal last week and said he and the Hardy's were cool? Maybe we'll see the first version of this with Flair backing Jeff in a title feud with AJ.

Good post!

 

[MachoMadness1988]

Yeah, I can definitely see what you're saying. I mean Flair is Flair and Heenan is Heenan in terms of character, but I really do see Ric Flair continuing to be a really great manager. He also reminds alot of one of my favorite managers, "Classy" Freddie Blassie. That is how I would use Flair, especially in the coming years.

Yes, _____ w/ Flair vs AJ will be great. I think Flair will bring the best out AJ. AJ is Flair's boy, and Flair is going to do everything he can to help AJ become an epic baby face.

 

[Rasha]

However, what really annoys me about Flair is that as a "Manager" he has not been able to put anyone over. He has not elevated anyone's career. Flair is constantly talking about himself.

To be fair, Flair hasn't directly "managed" anyone but AJ and Fortune. You're making that judgment on a very limited sample. And even with that, Flair was the reason AJ's heel turn wasn't a complete failure.

Also, Flair was basically a "wrester-manager" when he was in Evolution. I'm sure Randy Orton and Batista would have plenty to say about what Flair did to help them get over.

Not saying you're entirely wrong, but it seems like a quick and overly-harsh accusation.

 

[King Patrick Star]

Yes!! I can see this turning into something great. Now that "Fortune" and Flair have gone their separate ways, I’d like to see the Nature Boy, leader of the Four Horsemen, create "Four-Tune". Flair needs his own ship to run and creating his second stable in TNA would be the path to follow. This could probably only work if Flair were to turn on Immortal as well and create a three-sided war, Fortune vs. Four-Tune vs. Immortal. The question then becomes, who is in Four-Tune??

TNA World Title contender – Rob Terry – Push him or push him out. It’s about that time.

TNA Television Title contender – Kurt Angle – Just one more Title run to complete the TNA Grand Slam, and then retire if you want, Kurt.

TNA World Tag Team contenders – Beer Money – Just when you thought all is well in TNA Original Land, boom, the turn that hits “Home”.

TNA X-Division Title contender – Chris Sabin – If done correctly, this turn will could be as good as Shawn Michaels turning on Marty Jannetty. I think Sabin is the one who should go Heel and Shelly should stay Face. Shelly then can join Fortune.

So "Fortune" vs. "Four-Tune", with twists and turns along the way is the way to go. I’m starting to think of going with a different name. Pony Boys?? No. Herdsmen?? No. Nature Boys?? No. IV-H?? No. Re-Evolution?? No. Apocalypse?? Maybe.

 

[SpecialFNK]

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree that Flair hasn't put anyone over. he did elevate Lethal. when I started watching TNA in 2010 Lethal wasn't even wrestling and instead was seen doing Macho Man impressions. it was his feud with Flair that elevated him. it never made Lethal main event, but he was never going to be main event anyway. him being where he is right now I think has to have some credit to Flair.

I think Flair could be good at managing heels. he is great on the mic. I don't know if I would say he should have numerous guys to specifically go after Styles, but I definitely think he could be a great heel manager to do the talking for guys that don't work well on the mic.

 

[CrayzChris]

Isn't that what Flair's job has been though, or have we been watching different shows?

I'm not shitting on Ric Flair; he's Ric Flair for Christ's sake. I'm just saying that from what I have seen thus far, he seems to make himself the focus of the show, rather than the guys he is managing.

Screaming at the guys his men are feuding with and calling himself God really hasn't done anything to elevate Fortune or AJ for that matter. If anything, I think AJ's association with Flair hurt him. What happens backstage may be a completely different thing, but as a Manager, so far - Flair hasn't really excelled at putting over anyone.

That doesn't mean he COULDN'T...but so far, he hasn't, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[PhD]

Screaming at the guys his men are feuding with and calling himself God really hasn't done anything to elevate Fortune or AJ for that matter. If anything, I think AJ's association with Flair hurt him. What happens backstage may be a completely different thing, but as a Manager, so far - Flair hasn't really excelled at putting over anyone.

I'm kind of confused as to what you expect Flair to do to help someone get over, besides cut crazy ass promos full of threats which his proteges are then expected to back up, which is exactly what he's been doing. AJ Styles was as vanilla as they come personality wise, and he spent a whole year as a very credible heel; how can you not credit Flair for a large portion of that? Same thing goes for Kazarian, who somehow managed to hide that he has one of the most boring personalities in all of pro wrestling just because he had Flair screaming about his "movie-star looks" every week. I don't think Beer Money needed any rub, but I don't see how you could argue Styles and Kazarian have much better characters now than they did before Flair came to TNA.

 

[CrayzChris]

Styles was a huge star in TNA before Ric Flair even got there. Kazarian was almost a main event guy in TNA before he came back as Suicide and killed his career. If TNA's booking team didn't have their heads up their asses, they would be just fine on their own.

Being associated with Ric Flair did NOTHING for them, absolutely nothing. They are back at square one. It took a year of being "managed" by Flair, to get back to being exactly where they were 3 years ago. Big deal.

 

[Kitten Cutter]

The problem with the comparison is not charisma, as both Flair and Heenan are amazing to watch and listen to. The main difference, which is Flair's falling is that Heenan truly was a weasel. He was a weak, loud-mouth jerk who loved talking smack and hiding behind his wrestlers when it caught up to him. Flair is way too confrontational and tough. Flair would be the kind of manager that wouldn't take a back step, and that's not good for his charges. Heenan knew exactly the right amount of getting involved, staying out of it, and helping to keep his guys over. Heenan is the ONLY guy that could manage guys like Andre the Giant, Ravishing Rick Rude, and Ric Flair and it make sense. Flair isn't the type of guy who takes a back-step like that. Even if he did do less fighting and raving, Heenan was amazing at making people hate his guts because he was so full of himself without any way of backing it up. Heenan would talk a LOT of smack, then he would hide, run, cheat and connive his way out of it, and eventually get his ass whipped or humiliated. Flair was better as the limited wrestling leader of Fourtune, and I dislike the fact that he's simply the #3 guy behind Hogan and Bischoff right now.

 

[PhD]

Styles was a huge star in TNA before Ric Flair even got there. Kazarian was almost a main event guy in TNA before he came back as Suicide and killed his career. If TNA's booking team didn't have their heads up their asses, they would be just fine on their own.

Being associated with Ric Flair did NOTHING for them, absolutely nothing. They are back at square one. It took a year of being "managed" by Flair, to get back to being exactly where they were 3 years ago. Big deal.

I don't understand by your claim that Styles was a "huge star"; yes, he was very popular, at least with the IWC, for his in-ring work, but his character was just bland as shit (to wit, revisit some of his 'passing the torch' promos with Sting). And saying he's back to where he was a year ago doesn't make any sense, because Styles never had any currency with casual fans before (just like every homegrown TNA star), and worst case scenario, he still doesn't. What else could he have done in the last year that you would have found to be a better use of his character? What he does have is an interesting character to go along with his still-great wrestling skills. Again, I don't know how you could deny Flair's influence on his promo skills, which have undoubtedly improved under Flair's tutelage.

Same goes for Kazarian. How exactly did the association with Flair hurt him? He's still the same solid worker, only now he's at least beginning to look like he has a chance of graduating from the dialtone personality club.

 

[Chrome]

Bobby Heenan was great at what he did, and will go down in history as the greatest manager of all time - because he was able to transfer all of his heat onto the men he managed. It just seems that if Flair had an issue with Styles, we would be looking forward to a Flair vs. Styles match, instead of Flair's protege's vs. Styles.

Flair just doesn't seem ready to take the attention off of himself just yet; which is a shame, because he could be a huge asset to the company by elevating some of these younger guys.

Unless he managed Jay Lethal.. he's the only one last year that seemed to be on par with Flair during the Lethal/Fortune fued.. I think Flair could do a Hennanisc manager role if given the right talent. Sure AJ and fortune are ALL great.. and I think Kazarian still fits with flair.. but Beer Money and AJ don't need flair.. however.. someone like Jay Lethal going heel would only benefit him and elevate his character. I smell money in that pairing..

I don't understand by your claim that Styles was a "huge star"; yes, he was very popular, at least with the IWC, for his in-ring work, but his character was just bland as shit (to wit, revisit some of his 'passing the torch' promos with Sting). And saying he's back to where he was a year ago doesn't make any sense, because Styles never had any currency with casual fans before (just like every homegrown TNA star), and worst case scenario, he still doesn't. What else could he have done in the last year that you would have found to be a better use of his character? What he does have is an interesting character to go along with his still-great wrestling skills. Again, I don't know how you could deny Flair's influence on his promo skills, which have undoubtedly improved under Flair's tutelage.

Same goes for Kazarian. How exactly did the association with Flair hurt him? He's still the same solid worker, only now he's at least beginning to look like he has a chance of graduating from the dialtone personality club.

I also agree with everything in the above quote, the flair rub has helped AJ and Kazarian.. I don't think beer money needed it. However, I do think Jay Lethal has the most opportunity to gain with it. There was something magical that took place between flair and him last May-July time frame.. there is money there..

The problem with the comparison is not charisma, as both Flair and Heenan are amazing to watch and listen to. The main difference, which is Flair's falling is that Heenan truly was a weasel. He was a weak, loud-mouth jerk who loved talking smack and hiding behind his wrestlers when it caught up to him.

Are you comparing Heenan to Michael Cole!!! O:

 

[CrayzChris]

You guys are twisting things around here. We're talking about Flair, as a Manager. Not as a "mentor".

I'm saying that Ric Flair AS A MANAGER has done nothing to elevate anyone's careers. He puts the spotlight on himself and not on the people he is managing.

AJ Styles and Kazarian are no more or less popular with the fans as they were 3 years ago. Therefore, as far as I am concerned, their pairing with Flair has NOT elevated their careers. He may have taught them some mic skills, but he could have done that backstage.

The role of a manager is to put over the people that they are managing. Flair takes all the heat on himself. If he can learn how to do what Bobby Heenan was always able to do, then he can be a great asset as a Manager. But if he's going to portray himself as being BETTER than the guys he's managing, even though he's 30 years older than them -he's not doing anyone any favors.

Instead of Flair screaming that HE is a wrestling God - he should be saying it about Styles or anyone else he manages, and putting them over. THAT is a rub!! Having a huge star in the business give you his stamp of approval and say that you are the real deal (AND MEAN IT) - that's how you put someone over. All the silly promos, and backstage segments where they ICE eachother does nothing for the credibility of anyone involved.

Flair has to learn to take a back seat to the guys he manages, and put them in the forefront - NOT himself. Flair cuts promos on guys like HE is personally going to be the one to fight them, and the guys he manages stand their like idiots and are often forgotten about.

Flair's feud with Lethal was hilarious. But wouldn't it have been better if instead of Flair vs. Lethal, we had Kazarian vs. Lethal, with Flair on the outside? Wouldn't Lethal AND Kazarian have gained much more by having Flair involved, but letting their skills be the thing that sells the match?

I don't know, I feel like I'm in bizarro world here. Anyone who has watched wrestling and knows what the role of a Manager is, should know that Flair is NOT doing what he's supposed to do in that role.

 

[harrythem]

I soundly agree with you CrayzChris. Although, if people are going to go around and throw out Flairs name in comparison to a manager then there is only one person that I'd compare him too and that's Slick. By that I mean he's the stick man that, knowingly or not, seems to do everything in his power to get himself over, even if it's at the expense of those he's aligned with.

 

[Kitten Cutter]

Are you comparing Heenan to Michael Cole!!! O:

You bite your evil blasphemous tongue, man! How dare you mention Bobby Heenan and that fucking tool in the same sentence. Bobby Heenan was a comic genius who played his manager role to perfection. Michael Cole is getting heat like this because he was simply a goof that The Rock could punk out and was a poor excuse of a commentator that thought he was great cause McMahon kept putting him in big spots. Heenan could get heat by simply waving his hand. Cole doesn't have charisma; he just sucks so bad people hate his guts.

Bobby Heenan is a legend that will be remembered as long as wrestling fans live. Michael Cole will be forgotten about as quickly as the first guy to play MVP.

To stay on topic, though, if Flair really put his energy into being a real manager for one or two guys and not act like such a badass, he could do what Heenan did. Jay Lethal could definitely use the rub, and guys like Rob Terry or Crimson, new big guys who need a mouthpiece and the extra push from a big name to establish them. Even Gunner and Murphy could benefit if Flair made the true transition.