Everything Punk said about Hogan was true

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

I hope I dont offend anyone or dissapoint anyone, but what Hogan & Bischoff ar edoing with TNA is disgusting. This is coming from a wrestling fan not a WWE fan. Look I love wrestling I have been watching since I was five years old. I have seen the good, the bad & the ugly. This we are witnessing is ugly. Hulk Hogan has gotten TNA and made Hogan Pro Wrestling. He is giving time to guys like Bubba, Hall, Nash, Pac, The Nasty Boyz & old WWE rejects. Taking away time from the future of the Business and releasing quality wrestlers. He goes on a radio show and call his best women wrestler a female dog, the most unprossional thing I have seen. Decide to make Daniels job. Doesn't give Samoa Joe a match at the PPV and is surronding TNA around himself.
Im sick to my stomach and it is driving TNA right to the ground. We had hope Hogan would come in a rid TNA of all the old guys with maybe a Flair, Foley, Anle & Sting here and there. I had hope he would bring in guys like Cabana & Hero after they tried out for TNA, but no. I have to see the Nasty Boyz, I have to see the Outsiders, I have to see Orlando Jordan in a fued with DeAngelo Dinero, after Dinero was actually making progress. I have to see Val Venis bin Daniels one of the best wrestlers today. I have to see Ken Anderson beat Abyss and as a true wrestling fan it hurts me.
As much as we critize Vince, he knew if he didn't start developing new stars he was gonna drive the WWE to the ground & what have we gotten. We have CM Punk, Kofi Kingston, John Morrison, The Miz, Evan Bourne, Sheamus, Drew McIntyre & hopefully more. Vince is starting to sign guys from ROH like Bryan Danielson & we could have even seen Nigel if he had past his test. Im not trying to make the WWE sound like it is better, because they themselves have there own flaws. What Im saying is that if TNA is not gonna develope young talent they are done.
Everyone wants to see Styles, Daniels, Joe, Wolfe, Dinero, Sabin, Sheley, Beer Money, Generation Me, Red & the Divas Division. Why couldn't Hogan do that. I tell you why it is cause he is selfish. He wants his own nursing home buddies & thinks by giving WWE rejects a push he is gonna better TNA.
I say BS and if there is not a change TNA will be driven to the ground. You thought Kong & Flash leaving were bad. Wait to they can convice Joe or Daniels to stay.

Dude, don't base anything on Hogan that's negative with what CM Punk said, after all this is a guy who in PLAIN ENGLISH said that he's never met Hogan he's made enough of an opinion about him by check this out...being around him and knowing his business acumen and stuff. Actually wait, I'll do ya one better, I'll quote it verbatim!

"I have zero faith in Hulk Hogan as a man who is what? 60 years old and tries to dress like he's 18 and lives on the Jersey Shore."

"For a guy I've never met, I've formulated enough opinions about him just from being around him and like his business acumen and stuff like that, I really trust that he's not in this for TNA and he's not in this for the business. He's in this for himself."

Now, trust me, Hulk Hogan like any other big star is set in his ways about doing things a certain way, I mean that's nothing to be shocked about, of course the man has a big ego, after all he still arguably the biggest name in this business. However, I personally feel he's doing things as best he can at this point, to be fair he's not going out there and putting the belt on himself like his old boss "up north" used to do. As far as some of the rougher spots right now in programming such as production values, well again this whole thing is still in its infancy.

Basically dude, all I am saying is that I respect your opinion and you should be entitled to it, but don't base it so quickly on what someone like CM Punk says when it's evident the guy contradicts himself by claiming to have never met Hulk Hogan in one breath but in the next claiming that he knows enough by being around him and as far as Hogan's fashion sense goes, the guy's an entertainer he's supposed to not dress like the average guy pushing 60. It's funny that all that is coming from a guy who has a Pepsi tattoo on his body, funny you can remove a feather boa a lot easier than a tattoo, last I saw.

But yeah seriously dude, there are some things about Hogan that even bother me as a fan, but I'm not going to take the word of someone like CM Punk and his viewpoints especially when he says he doesn't know the man personally but yet contradicts that same statement and he also can't keep things in perspective.

That's the thing about this business dude, we don't know what really goes on so just take things on face value. If this TNA thing with Hogan isn't showing any REAL progress by this time next year, then worry about what's going on. But definitely formulate your own opinions and don't let misguided know it alls on this board or people who can't make a sensible point influence you.

 

[gtajoker01]

I absolutely agree and wwe is the same way. I just wish roh was on basic cable. How many more times do we have to see aj win. Aj is great wrestler but he shouldnt win so much Kurt should of won at genesis. My point is there are other wrestlers who deserve the title and spotlight. and i feel tna has way too many former wwe talent its getting sickening im getting so tired of hearing them bring up wwe. this is suppose to be about tna and great wrestling and phenomenal wrestlers. i have to agree with the statement tna IS wcw all over again and its only a matter of time before they bury themselves. way to go dixie.

 

[gd]

They talk crap, but let me remind you the WWE is doing one hell of a job pushing young stars.

A decent job, not better than TNA though.

Lets see Punk is a monster heel,

Remember when Cena beat him in 2 minutes?

The Miz is on his way to becoming another monster heel ( who would have thought about that

He's solid. Slightly overrated, but solid.

Sheamus is improving and is one mean MF,

I actually quite like Sheamus, but TNA has a pretty good young champ as well.

John Morrison has future HBK written all over him,

Maybe if he had a personality.

Kofi Kingston amazing,

I like Kofi.

Evan Bourne getting closer & closer every week to up setting the champion,

HAHAHA. Are you serious? Bourne didn't even get entrance music last week. He's the biggest jobber in the WWE, besides Swagger of course, who they completely buried for some reason.

Drew McIntyre one mean Scotish with good mic work & a sick finisher.

He looks funny.

Danielson is one his way

Hasn't even wrestled a match yet.

& like I said if Nigel would have past his test would have been there too.

That's not a very good argument, considering Nigel is actually in TNA and is a huge part of the show.

The one negative was they let go of Dinero, but it has done him very good cause he is better now then in the WWE.

Can't really blame the WWE there. I actually suspect Burke is still shit, but the fans just love him in TNA for some reason.

You guys talk crap about Sheamus, but he is improving every week. The Miz is becoming one of the best FN heels in the Business

Already agreed with you on these, but you have neglected to mention guys like Morgan, Hernandez, AJ, Red, Kennedy, etc. TNA has a solid base of young guys as well.

Here is your lovely roster you guys love

Hogan
Flair
Foley
Sting
Nash
Hall
Pac
Jordan (Whoopie T)
Morely
Raven
Ryhno
The Nasty Boyz
Tara
Jeff Jarrett
Bichoff
Team 3d ( They are old as hell
Stevie
Angle

Team 3D is like 36. They aren't that old, but they do suck. Morley is also just as old as Daniels. If I see someone talk about how old he is again, I'm going to flip. Hogan, Flair, and Bischoff don't even wrestle, and a lot of those other guys are used sparingly in the ring. Hell, Hall and Waltman just got fired.

I also see you listed Angle there, which is laughable, considering he's one of the best wrestlers in the world.

Does anyone see a problem, probably not to the supporters. To me it should be called Total Nursing Home Action.

I see what you did there.

Do the math and you might get to over 1,000 year in old age and to think some of you see an improvement.

Considering you listed like a million guys, I wouldn't be surprised if it was over 1,000. Actually you listed 20 guys, and I doubt the average age is 50, so you're wrong.

If Hogan wanted a change he would hired Paul Heymor as the main booker & kicked Vince Russo to the curve and stripped the ROH roster, Instead of signing all these old farts to wrestle. I would have not mined a little Sting here and there, maybe a little Flair & some Foley. NAsh & Hall in the back with Heyman booking behind the cameras, no problem with that. But the Nasty Boyz, Jordan & Morely & Pac make me puke.

Morley and Jordan aren't that old, as I've already said. Who the hell is Paul Heymor? I can say that TNA is entertaining now, if they wouldn've just signed the whole ROH roster, what would the point be? Wouldn't that be downgrading their talent?

Also why not have Daniels fued with Foley or Sting or Nash.

They're all tied up in other things.

Why not have Dinero fued with the guys I just mentioned. Guys who are well known champion sin this business. Who the hell remembers Venis or Jordan. You tell me Daniels & Dinero are gonna be Main Eventers cause they beat two guys we have not seen in year, forget about it. He wants to make TNA in to the Hogan Tour and if you guys do not realize it now, you will soon.

You have to start somewhere, don't you? After they get past these solid midcarders, they'll move on to bigger and better feuds. That's how it works.

I absolutely agree and wwe is the same way. I just wish roh was on basic cable. How many more times do we have to see aj win. Aj is great wrestler but he shouldnt win so much Kurt should of won at genesis. My point is there are other wrestlers who deserve the title and spotlight. and i feel tna has way too many former wwe talent its getting sickening im getting so tired of hearing them bring up wwe.

Wait, you're complaining about WWE guys winning too much, but you're mad because AJ went over Angle, like he should have? Que?

I know it's cool to hate on Hogan all day long, but the fact is that TNA has been more entertaining since he came in. Can any of you deny that? The show is just better. Sorry to break the news to you, but this time last year, TNA was quite shit. Guess who the champ was? Sting, a man who is over 50 years old. You have a 30 year old AJ as the champ now. Pretty much every feud is interesting as well. We had Bashir/Sewall as a major feud last year.

Also, can someone explain to me how Hogan is "playing the smarks". I honestly don't even know what that means.

 

[Reddannihilation]

I absolutely agree and wwe is the same way. I just wish roh was on basic cable. How many more times do we have to see aj win. Aj is great wrestler but he shouldnt win so much Kurt should of won at genesis. My point is there are other wrestlers who deserve the title and spotlight. and i feel tna has way too many former wwe talent its getting sickening im getting so tired of hearing them bring up wwe. this is suppose to be about tna and great wrestling and phenomenal wrestlers. i have to agree with the statement tna IS wcw all over again and its only a matter of time before they bury themselves. way to go dixie.

Exactly what justification do you use to determine that Kurt Angle should be champion again? He was constantly in the TNA Heavyweight Championship scene all of last year and for a large portion of it he was the title holder. Kurt Angle needs to get out of the title scene and if TNA follows through and says that this was Angle's last chance it'll open the door for wrestlers like Wolfe, Dinero, Joe, Tomko, etc. To get a shot at the main event.

 

[trendkiller]

Also, can someone explain to me how Hogan is "playing the smarks". I honestly don't even know what that means.

Hogan and Bischoff are working up interest in TNA from marks and smarks of all affiliations through creating discussion on forums such as these with the apparent direction they are taking the company in.

They get heel heat from the smarks, they get face heat from the marks that love Hogan, they get mixed reactions from just about anyone, but...

... they're getting a reaction. No matter how corny and Cena-esque it might sound, it's the reaction that matters. They are working the smarks and IWC by purposely making changes to create controversy, and they are spreading "news" and "rumors" on forums, dirt-sheets, Twitter and Facebook to further incite interest.

If it happens on TV, it's a work. I even think Bischoff has said as much in some interview or other. There are rare, rare exceptions (SS97 comes to mind), but other than that, it's all worked until the opposite is supported by SOLID observational evidence. (Such as Bret Hart not returning to the WWE for 12 years... that's pretty solid observational evidence).

But nah, the clever smarks of the IWC couldn't possibly get worked by such FUCKING MORONS as Russo, Bischoff and Hogan, right? Because the smarks know EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW about the wrestling business and most importantly KNOW HOW TO DO IT RIGHT!

Ye gods, the gullibility and naïvity of the oh so wrestling-educated IWC is absolutely laughable. Have you all totally forgotten what the Monday Night Wars were like? Have you all totally forgotten the fundamental of pro-wrestling that is kayfabe?

 

[C.Msupporter]

Who really thinks hogan is doing such a bad job, TNA last year and every other year has mostly been for the younger generations, mostly teenegers who thought when they were younger wrestling was more believable and hardcore, what Hogans doing right now is he's bringing in wrestlers who are older yes but they have ore experience putting on a show creating better matches.

Another plus these old WWE rejects are doing is introducing an older generation of viewers to TNA, thats why the Jan 4th show had the highest rating ever(allegedly). I saw Hogans Aussie tour which featured a lot a old guys that are appearing now, like Morley, Anderson.......Anderson, Nasty Boys, flair, Shannon Moore, guys that older people watched while WWE was still good (allegedly). and their matches were Good, 90's good and hats what made his tour a success. so hate hogan for not showing as much of the TNA Young Talent but remember Hogan introducing TNA to a whole New audiance.

 

[trendkiller]

Morley, Anderson.......Anderson, Nasty Boys, flair, Shannon Moore, guys that older people watched while WWE was still good (allegedly).

Sean Morley is not old. Not saying you said that, I just want to note it, since it seems to be a common misconception. He is as young as Chris Daniels, almost to the day.

Ken Anderson wasn't part of the Attitude Era - he started wrestling in, what, 2001-2002, something like that. He actually first got hooked on wrestling thanks to Stone Cold Steve Austin (source: RF shoot interview from 2009), so considering he worked the indys for a few years, no he wasn't part of it.

Nasty Boys and Flair, granted, though they were on the WCW side of the fence, weren't they? (My memory fails me).

Shannon Moore...? Who the hell ever watched Moore and went "man, I gotta see what else this guy can do"? He's been in TNA before and bombed then, he bombed in WWE and he will bomb this time around as well. He's friends with Matt & Jeff Hardy and Hurricane Helms... that's about the only reason anyone should be even mildly interested in him.

 

[The Pizzaman]

As a lifelong wrestling fan I have been fans of WCW, WWE (WWF as it was then called), TNA and british wrestling. Recently though espessially on TNA, I have found myself being put in a time warp and seeing ghosts of wrestlers that should have already had their time in front of the camera. There is so much talent out there that should be given their time. Hogan, Bishoff, Flair, Nash, Hall, The Nasty boys have all come out the woodwork and want to relive the dreams that they have already achieved. what else do they have to prove? yes i agree they have good points and yes i enjoy seeing them back in the ring but and this is the big but. at what cost to TNA is it going to be. Bishoff had WCW and look what happened there? the very same thing that will happen to TNA if hey are not careful. i will always be a wrestling fan and will continue to watch BOTH WWE and TNA regardless but then im not going to be affected by the loss of fans or revenue. The wrestlers who put their bodies on the line each and every week are the ones who will suffer in the long run. i know there will be those of you who will disagree and will stick up for hogan and co which is your right, but if you think that Hogan and bishoff will save TNA then just wait and see. TNA never needed saving. it was working just fine before Hogan arrived. WCW is a prime example. Was Hogan in that to try and save the company? was Bishoff running that?. that died and TNA will as well. im not saying WWE is perfect coz its not but at least they dont have hogan or his ego running things.

 

[AMH]

How about ending all this by saying that both companies have their flaws. How about saying that both companies have their perks. WWE is a good company. I mean they'd have to be given the huge ratings they get (way higher than TNA). TNA is a good company given they produce good wrestling on a weekly basis. But at the same time, it's quite right to admit that both companies have been having trouble as of late. I agree wholeheartedly by with those who say that TNA is going downhill. But I can also understand those who feel it's gotten better. It's all about perspective. Last night, Bischoff and Hogan pulled out the old "Bret screwed Bret" angle from the WWE. The reason for this: to capitalize on the the upcoming Vince/Bret feud in the WWE. TNA is simply trying to counter it. Although, personally, I don't think you can ever counter one of the most personal rivalries of all time. It's a simple marketing tool. Look what TNA did with Morley. They type cast him as "film guy" similiar to his Val Venis character that the WWE created for him. The reason: because that's worked for him in the past. The same with Mr. Anderson and the mic gimmick. Look familiar? Yes, he did it in the WWE. So TNA is simply trying to capitalize on his fame. Now, anyone can say that this was lazy on behalf of Hogan and Bischoff, but at the same time, it gives fans that sense of nostalgia needed to sway viewers to watch.

Yet, in terms of wrestling, I think the Hogan/Bischoff era has been a complete disappointment. Much like the Raw shift to PG it just doesn't have that spark it once had. Now, I'm sure some with disagree with me which is okay, but I used to watch IMPACT, not religiously, but on a decent basis. So as a WWE fan that Hogan and Bischoff want to go after, I would have to say that they've disappointed thus far. I want to watch the show. I want to get into TNA, but from what I've seen I just can't. That show last night did absolutely nothing for me. So for those dedicated fans who are trying to say their appealing to the WWE audience, I will tell you first hand that it's not working. At least, not for me. When I first saw TNA it was while they were having their Wednesday night pay-per-views. I ordered a couple and couldn't believe what I saw. As a matter of fact, I had said on several occassions that this was going to be huge one day. But from what I saw last night, I can't help but think they've taken a step down. I wish them nothing but the best of luck, but that was just painful last nigh. Much like Monday's Raw with "The Flame" John Heder. Just awful. Both companies need to pick it up.

 

[Bull_Dawgz]

The best thing in TNA right now is Ric Flair managing AJ Styles. The Montreal Screwjob remake was just sad to watch. 2 amazing female wrestlers just left. While it is disappointing, i think they left at the perfect time while they're careers looked good. I fear that even more major players in TNA will leave due to Hogan and his "change."

 

[mean_gene_roberts]

This is totally amazing. I just noticed that in the forum listings page, 15 are viewing the WWE discussion section. TNA...291! I'll take that as an indication of which organization is the most popular at this moment, regardless of ratings. There is nothing earth-shattering in WWE happening. Everything is shattering with TNA.

I also noticed that a few posters mentioned "indy" feds in either positive or negative light. Don't forget that (yes it's true) the WWE is an indy fed as well. It just happens to be the biggest one there is.

Prior to the 1960's, the 'Big E', which then was the WWWF was a part of the NWA and their territory was the New England area. Vince, Sr. didn't agree with the NWA Board of Directors as to who the World Champion should be so he pulled a stunt similar to what Paul Heyman did years later by dumping the NWA belt and naming his own top guy as World Champion. Having a larger TV market in the New York area helped him to get his product out to more homes when television sets were still few and far between. At the same time as Vince Senior there were also a number of southern state branches of the NWA which eventually combined through buy outs and acquisitions. The NWA had Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair as their top draws and champs in the 70's and in the 80's they decided to leave the NWA, becoming WCW and became the 2nd largest independant promotion behind the then WWF.

Fast forward to the 1990's and the "Monday Night Wars". Both companys were drawing ratings in 1.0 to 2.0 range. WCW began taking a lead over the WWF. WCW had, shall we say, attitude. Vince was still putting a show out based on cartoon characters and actually going so far as to put a Saturday morning cartoon show on Tv called "Hulk Hogan and Friends".

What did Vince do to counter WCW? He started stealing their ideas. He created a Cruiserweight division and Title, which WCW had done a year or 2 earlier. He started dropping the cartoonish characters such as Doink, the Brooklyn Brawler and the famous Gobbledy-Gooker and tried his hand at an edgier product. He started snapping up WCW talent that were seemingly being over-looked, such as a young man by the name of Steve Austin and a ham and egger he re-named "Hunter Hearst Helmsley" and gave him a character which was a rip-off of the same character he had been playing in WCW as the tag partner of Lord Steven (William" Regal) and another guy known in WCW as "Mean Mark Callous". He actually copied a the business model of WCW and according to his revisionist history "created" the "Attitude" era.

Vince McMahon has never created a "Star" of any meaningful proportion. Every star he had came from the AWA, WCCW, GCW or WCW and he merely continued the same characters they had portrayed in those companies, right down to the hero Sgt. Slaughter.

Yeah, Vince is a genius...crap.

 

[BigAdz]

Yeah, he's running it right into the ground.

Better production values: Yup.

Higher ratings: Yup.

More cogent storylines: Yup.

Better reviews for their shows: Yup.

More PPV buys: We don't know yet.

Pushing younger talent?: Styles, Morgan, Hernandez, Beer Money, Young BUcks (Generation Me), Pope, Desmond Wolfe...all have received pushes to one degree or another, so yup.

Are you complaining without any real basis in reality? Yup.

...you must be high.

WWE's production values SHIT on TNA's in every single aspect. Better entrance sequences, 30 second delays on live broadcasts to allow for censorship (may sound lame but that's good production), better scenes, better scripts and FAR better flow to the show than any ep of Impact I've ever seen

Higher ratings? Raw's 3.4 is actually higher than Impact's 1.4, just in case you didn't feel like showing up to maths class.

TNA can't keep a good storyline working for more than 2 weeks. Vince Russo is booking on a WEEK TO WEEK basis! How the hell is that better than WWE booking and developing a feud months in advance?

WWE's biggest PPV competition is UFC (who kill them monthly). TNA is a long way from even touching that pie.

And the "pushes" the young talent is getting?
AJ: Weakest champ I've ever seen. Considering Rey's run, that's saying something.
Morgan: Has a HUGE win against Angle and then what? Tag team champion with another big guy who should've been world champ by now? Yeah.....no
Beer Money: Admittedly, well pushed in the tag division
Generation Me: We'll see but so far? Not impressed
Dinero: To say his run so far has been patchy is being conservative
Desmond Wolfe: Another man who had a great run with Angle only to have his momentum slowed. Luckily, he's so talented he can look great in defeat every week.


Whatever the hell you're smokin, pass it round cos it must be A grade stuff. Brother.

 

[deanogeelong]

I think that all this hype around TNA with Bischoff + Hogan running the show will turn out like WCW of 1990's. I know i started watching wrestling at age 5, (1999) but everyone of the IWC knows how the story goes and i'll show the comparisons between the two companies. WCW buys out/steals all the older or over talent. TNA steals Christian, Kurt Angle, Mick Foley. WCW challenges WWE and WWE takes notice. TNA challenges WWE..... no wait that never happened, fastforward to 2009/2010.

TNA did what WCW did and bought in all the older talent. WWE pushed the younger guys which is the right thing to do and look who won the fans. yes WCW did win the ratings war an astounding 83 or 87 weeks in a row. But eventually like everything else, the same old crap gets boring. No one wants to see Hogan beating guys week in, week out. WWE however you have guys like Cena or Orton that can lose a match or two then go on a streak of wins because they are the face of the company.

 

[AMH]

Okay Mean Gene, whatever your name is, you say that Vince McMahon has never created a superstar. Never? For real? Okay, let's think about this a little bit. Now, I don't mean to be mean Mean Gene, but what you wrote was complete nonsense. Vince McMahon has never created a superstar. Okay, so who the HELL was Hulk Hogan before Vince got ahold of him. Yeah, you could say he was CREATED in the AWA, but he had nowhere near the fanbase as he did when he joined forces with Vince McMahon. And what about the Undertaker? Who was the Undertaker before the WWE? Yeah, he was the phoenom before he came to the WWE. In the words of Miz "Really?" And what about Stone Cold. He was FIRED by Bischoff because Bischoff felt he didn't have what it took to be a Hulk Hogan or Macho Man. And what happened to him? Huh? Was he not the man who single handedly brought WWE back to greatness? I think so. And who created that? VINCE MCMAHON. Sure, you could say "Stunning" Steve Austin was made in WCW but STONE COLD was a creation of Vince McMahon, of the WWE. Speaking of which, who the hell created the Macho Man? Who made Hall and Nash? Who made all these guys who came to WCW and created this Monday night war? VINCE MCMAHON. Without him, Nash would've still been Oz and Hall The Diamon Stud. You cannot deny that Vince is a creative genius. He is WHY wrestling is where it is. Anyone, be you a WWE or TNA fan, cannot deny what he's done for the business. You saying all these early promotions were what made these superstars. But what these early promotions failed to do was put wrestling into the mainstream. Which is what Vince McMahon did.

Now, for a parting thought, I want you to think. If Vince McMahon has never created a superstar, how was it that TNA has a new big name "superstar" aquisition by the name by the name of Mr. Anderson? Hmm...where did he come from? Or, the surprise return of one Jeff Hardy? Hmm...where did he come from? I know what you're saying about wrestlers having origins, but in terms of mainstream notice, only one man has done that for them and that's Vince McMahon.

 

[Reddannihilation]

...you must be high.

WWE's production values SHIT on TNA's in every single aspect. Better entrance sequences, 30 second delays on live broadcasts to allow for censorship (may sound lame but that's good production), better scenes, better scripts and FAR better flow to the show than any ep of Impact I've ever seen

Higher ratings? Raw's 3.4 is actually higher than Impact's 1.4, just in case you didn't feel like showing up to maths class.

TNA can't keep a good storyline working for more than 2 weeks. Vince Russo is booking on a WEEK TO WEEK basis! How the hell is that better than WWE booking and developing a feud months in advance?

WWE's biggest PPV competition is UFC (who kill them monthly). TNA is a long way from even touching that pie.

And the "pushes" the young talent is getting?
AJ: Weakest champ I've ever seen. Considering Rey's run, that's saying something.
Morgan: Has a HUGE win against Angle and then what? Tag team champion with another big guy who should've been world champ by now? Yeah.....no
Beer Money: Admittedly, well pushed in the tag division
Generation Me: We'll see but so far? Not impressed
Dinero: To say his run so far has been patchy is being conservative
Desmond Wolfe: Another man who had a great run with Angle only to have his momentum slowed. Luckily, he's so talented he can look great in defeat every week.


Whatever the hell you're smokin, pass it round cos it must be A grade stuff. Brother.

You completely missed the point he was making. He wasn't saying TNA was beating WWE in the ratings or that they had better production values than the WWE. He was saying TNA have improved over what they already had. But ignoring your stupidity in that regard, I'll look at some of your WWE support points and laugh. WWE's storylines aren't built months in advance, TNA had the MEM storyline last an entire year, name one WWE storyline that lasted all of 2009? Impact has been the better product for months now and they keep getting better, WWE thought they'd be making it big by bringing in Bret Hart and so far it's been very lacklustre. TNA is a far better company and they've improved immensely in the past 3 weeks. WWE are in the exact same spot they've been in for years and it grows more and more tiresome each week.

And what about Stone Cold. He was FIRED by Bischoff because Bischoff felt he didn't have what it took to be a Hulk Hogan or Macho Man. And what happened to him? Huh? Was he not the man who single handedly brought WWE back to greatness? I think so. And who created that? VINCE MCMAHON. Sure, you could say "Stunning" Steve Austin was made in WCW but STONE COLD was a creation of Vince McMahon, of the WWE.

Stone Cold was a creation of Steve Austin. Prior to joining the WWF he was in ECW where his character and attitude was borderline identical to Stone Cold, except his promo's had more emotion because he specifically targeted Bischoff. Don't believe me see for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj-2G-9y0bI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnFRFlOPb1M&feature=related

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

This is totally amazing. I just noticed that in the forum listings page, 15 are viewing the WWE discussion section. TNA...291! I'll take that as an indication of which organization is the most popular at this moment, regardless of ratings. There is nothing earth-shattering in WWE happening. Everything is shattering with TNA.

The TNA forum is more popular than the WWE forum on a smark forum that's not even a half a percent of the wrestling community? Fuck, WWE might go out of business.

Fast forward to the 1990's and the "Monday Night Wars". Both companys were drawing ratings in 1.0 to 2.0 range. WCW began taking a lead over the WWF. WCW had, shall we say, attitude. Vince was still putting a show out based on cartoon characters and actually going so far as to put a Saturday morning cartoon show on Tv called "Hulk Hogan and Friends".

What did Vince do to counter WCW? He started stealing their ideas. He created a Cruiserweight division and Title, which WCW had done a year or 2 earlier. He started dropping the cartoonish characters such as Doink, the Brooklyn Brawler and the famous Gobbledy-Gooker and tried his hand at an edgier product. He started snapping up WCW talent that were seemingly being over-looked, such as a young man by the name of Steve Austin and a ham and egger he re-named "Hunter Hearst Helmsley" and gave him a character which was a rip-off of the same character he had been playing in WCW as the tag partner of Lord Steven (William" Regal) and another guy known in WCW as "Mean Mark Callous". He actually copied a the business model of WCW and according to his revisionist history "created" the "Attitude" era.

So? It's common business practice to borrow more successful ideas. Except Vince did it better, and prevailed over the WCW because of it. Do you think if the WWE were a comedy show, they'd still be around today? It's stupid of you to give Vince flack for saving his business.

Vince McMahon has never created a "Star" of any meaningful proportion. Every star he had came from the AWA, WCCW, GCW or WCW and he merely continued the same characters they had portrayed in those companies, right down to the hero Sgt. Slaughter.

Yeah, Vince is a genius...crap.

Actually, that's what creating a star is. Taking a guy and making him a household name. In fact, Vince created Hulk Hogan. Any major star of the WWWF as well as the WWF was made famous by Vince McMahon unless they jumped ship from WCW.

You have absolutely zero idea of how the business works, yo.

 

[Greenlight13]

I disagree. I think he's actually been surprisingly good so far with two small exceptions. Firstly Bubba the Love Sponge shouldn't be in TNA and he's actually admitted that himself, but I think the Haiti thing has shown he won't last long, he's too outspoken a controversial figure to last in a company concerned about their image.

The second would be this Awesome Kong thing, though I say that selfishly in that I don't want them to can their best Knockout. Rationally speaking you can't have talent assaulting people, and though Bubba is a dick for what he said and deserved much worse he is Hogan's friend so that just wasn't smart on her part. Hogan slamming her on the radio was classless, but again, it's his buddy ya know? Losing Kong would be a big blow but I think the Knockout division would survive with proper booking.

As for the rest I don't really see any negatives. I personally liked the six sided ring but the only issue I've got with the new one is there isn't a lot of space around ringside for dives and even moving around. Desmond proved this at Genesis when he physically couldn't get around the corner of the post to wrap Dinero up. Flair also had some trouble moving around to get the ref, but hey, I'm sure if it continues to be a problem they'll just move the guardrail back a little.

The Nasty Boys aren't a team anybody really wants to see, but it is arguably a "dream match" for them to face Team 3D and you better believe 3D will go over and it'll likely be the last time we see them, unless Nasty Boys cheat to win and 3D beat them in some kind of gimmick match. Them going over EY and Nash stung a bit but you have to make them look credible and it didn't last long.

Hall and Waltman are pilled up and their star factor has faded but they're actually doing interesting things with them. First thing they're the nWo incarnate doing Hogan's bidding, then they start just attacking people randomly, then they turn on Nash and now Hogan doesn't like them either. I honestly think they've almost been brought in to not be acknowledged if that makes any sense. Everyone believed they'd be brought back if Hogan came in and by bringing them in and then having Nash and Hogan not side with them it's almost like saying "no they won't be." They're temporary and nothing they've done so far has offended me. They lost to Beer Money after all.

And as for the other talent, AJ's NEVER looked stronger in his entire TNA career. He's getting way more mic time and we all know that's how you build a star. He's winning more consistently than he was before Hogan arrived and looking good doing it. Putting Flair with him WILL get him over with casual fans. My only qualm was making him heel when the company's sort of lacking main event faces if Angle isn't going to get too many shots, but they immediately turned Joe face to compensate and I'm sure Sting will be back to challenge too.

Daniels getting camera time at all when Hogan came in shocked me, especially after he got 30 seconds being interrupted on the Live Impact, but since then he's stepped into a program with a proven star. Not a superstar, but a guy people know. And Morley looks a lot bigger than Daniels so it's not that hard to believe he'd beat him. He got a good few minutes of promo time against him and I believe he'll eventually go over him. I'm a fan of Morley as a mid-card worker so no problem there where I'm sitting. As good as Daniels is, and he's really good, he will never be champion and people need to accept he'll only flirt with the main event from time to time.

Joe was left off Genesis, but he was also only added to Final Resolution last minute in which he captured a guaranteed world title shot. If you read *spoilers* for Impact you'll know that Joe is cashing in and will be main eventing Against All Odds against AJ. That not good enough?

Wolfe went from a great feud with Angle wherein he only won a tag match and some brawls to losing clean to Dinero. I thought this was a bad sign, but he's since won pretty much all of his matches and his match at Genesis was a show stealer with the crowd getting behind him whilst maintaining his heel status. He's undergoing appearance alterations and is rising quickly to the top, that's got to be a win.

Dinero has been the breakout star since Hogan's first show. He goes from lower mid-card feuds with Suicide and Team 3D, Rhino & Jesse Neal, to getting a two minute promo every single show and a decent match showing. He beat Wolfe, he recently beat AJ in a non-title match, and they seem to be doing a better job of building him towards stardom than the WWE ever did. Win.

The Guns have been held down since halfway through their feud with Team 3D, you can't put that on Hogan. They have lost every match they've been in under his regime as far as I know, but they have a shitty win/loss record anyway. They may be entering into a program with Kendrick and facing Generation Me some more, so hey, it's better than them appearing on Xplosion.

Beer Money took down The Band in their first try, something people thought wouldn't happen. They got face time with Bischoff and they're looking as good as ever to me. Win.

Generation Me... who have only arrived SINCE Hogan got there (I know Dixie wanted them before he arrived, but you get the point) and are undefeated. They aren't as good as they seem to most people and this will be revealed in time, but for now they're getting ring time and will X-Division mainstays and possibly a step towards X-Tag Titles (three X-Division teams now, same number as Knockout Teams and they got a belt, still three or four heavyweight teams left to feud for the main belts.) Win.

Amazing Red's push has not diminished, even in a title loss, he's still getting air time, and Doug Williams won't be champion long. He beat Kendrick. Semi-Win. (I'm not that high on Red so I have an easier time stomaching this.)

The "Divas" division. Angelina Love has returned, Tara and ODB are still around (though they had a terrible match at Genesis, even if it did get longer than any womens match in recent memory). Hamada and Kong are entertaining by dominating the smaller girls. I'd back that team against a lot of men in all honesty. This of course depends on Kong staying and still getting a push. They could do with some new blood, but hey, it's still streaks ahead of the WWE's girls. Win.

And finally Orlando Jordan and Mr. Ke...Anderson. Orlando Jordan hasn't been in the WWE in nearly half a decade. He's been wrestling internationally and been doing a decent job of it from what I hear. I've yet to see him in the ring so I'm not going to condemn him already. I know his present win/loss record and I don't think he's hurting any talent.

A lot of people love Anderson and wanted him to win world titles in the WWE. I honestly think this hire was a given and if they didn't bring him in it would have been stupid. He's got charisma and ability and just because WWE fired him doesn't mean he should have to call it quits, he belongs wrestling on television and that's what he's doing. Everybody in the company's gone over Abyss at one point so this is hardly Hogan ruining his character. Abyss is not that great a wrestler and has spent his entire career putting people over by seeming like he should beat them, aside from a cup of coffee as champion. No change there really.

Essentially most of the negatives were there before Hogan arrived and people are pinning them on him which isn't fair. I'm not a fan of Hogan's promos wherein he's frustrated with the fans not being 100% behind him, but what did he expect from the people that already liked TNA? It's not his job to keep them happy (well, it is a bit), it's his job to make the people who've been saying TNA is a joke, it'll never be big etc. change their mind. He's increased production value, advertising and ratings. What more do you want?

I'm not saying Hogan's saved the company and now they'll take down Vince, but I think it's way too early to declare his project a failure. Just my take.

 

[bran041]

tna haterz are complaining about wrestlers being 'old' but its ok for wwe to have two guys in their forty's doing Crutch chops towards little kids along with a midget

 

[Suneeboy]

Oh man, the TNA forum is jumping today. 5x as many viewers as the WWE forums. I guess we know what product is drawing more interest right now. Haters and Lovers are coming together to watch TNA and talk about it. I love it.

Hogan is a genius, and Bischoff is a genius. They are doing it again. They are reviving wrestling, and getting ready to take on the WWE. This time I don't think it will end with WWE buying out the competition. Once they go head to head on Monday nights, and start getting on the road for their shows it will really be a war.

The Bret Hart angle is very very boring, and I honestly don't care for it. The screwjob Angle that TNA started last night is so fucking interesting. Angle sold it to perfection, even saying "I can go back to the WWE", "I quit", etc. Beautiful television.

Just the fact that everyone is talking about it means that TNA is doing a GREAT job. No one is talking about the WWE right now, and the WM is 2 months away! You know why? There are no angles over there!

 

[jrumpi]

This is a response to AMH , OMG you think vince is the one who created steve austin LOOOOOOL vince wanted austin to be the ring master with ted dibiasi
then he was going to call steve ( Blue ice or some thing like that , dont believe check the legends of wrestling round table on wwe 24/7) austin was the one that created stone cold cuz talents back then had control over there gimmicks he wanted to call mankind a shitty name that i cant even spell LOL , under taker vince wanted him to debut as the EGG MAN !! he wanted to give bret hart a cow boy gimmick !!! . Please get your facts right vince doesn't know how to create gimmicks nor stars , stars create them selves if they 1st and only believe in them selves and there gimmicks !!

Here is a proof John Freaking Cena : he debuted as all wwe stars these days a generic weight musclier wrestler , the fans didnt care cena was so close of being dropped but then he came up with the rapping gimmick , now compare cena between his gimmick back then and now what wwe wants him to be .

 

[danny]

DAMN!!!! did some of you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? i mean what's the deal with you so-called wrestling fanatics on here and 411mania.com that cause's you all to get so fucking pissed off over shit that's as fake as '' the jersey shore'' reality show? over on 411mania.com they're basically calling for hogans death over there...... NICE HUH? WISH DEATH ON SOMEBODY WHO'S ONLY TRYING TO HELP THE VERY THING THAT HELP MAKE THEM FAMOUS IN THE FIRST PLACE? SORRY! I LIKE WRESTLING AND ALL BUT NOT THAT DAMN MUCH TO BE ANGRY AT HULK HOGAN AND TNA!! what for? if goes out of business it goes out of business, ain't no sweat off of my back yours neither, don't see the point of the wwe-tards/iwc smarks getting mad and bashing hulk for the decisions he's made since being in tna, like taking the 6-sided ring away, yeah so what? since when does the ring have anything to do with them doing their jobs which is to entertain people, ain't nothing they can't do better in a 6-sided that they can't do in a regular ring, then there's this thing with awesome kong wanting her release from the company due to bubba the love sponge, first off he's a shock jock with a radio station, he like howard stern are known for doing stupid shit, that shouldn't surprize anyone that listens to their radio broadcasts, as for kong........BOO FUCKING HOO! womens wrestling IS DEAD, i watched a match the other day on wwe raw and was bored to tears, kong going to wwe ain't gonna changed much once mcjackass get's thru telling her to loose weight and have the staff calling her a hipo she'll be back, why any one would suggest she go to wwe anyway is beyond me seeing as how they're treating mickie james, all in all i think that the time and effort you all put into slamming hogan his career, personal life and his treatment of tna could be better use as a tool to help others like the people in haiti, or better yet help people who are losing their jobs due to the economic crisis that's plaguing the US instead of being here BS-ing about this shit that probably in 5 years is gonna be gone. JUST A THOUGHT.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

This is totally amazing. I just noticed that in the forum listings page, 15 are viewing the WWE discussion section. TNA...291! I'll take that as an indication of which organization is the most popular at this moment, regardless of ratings. There is nothing earth-shattering in WWE happening. Everything is shattering with TNA.

I also noticed that a few posters mentioned "indy" feds in either positive or negative light. Don't forget that (yes it's true) the WWE is an indy fed as well. It just happens to be the biggest one there is.

Prior to the 1960's, the 'Big E', which then was the WWWF was a part of the NWA and their territory was the New England area. Vince, Sr. didn't agree with the NWA Board of Directors as to who the World Champion should be so he pulled a stunt similar to what Paul Heyman did years later by dumping the NWA belt and naming his own top guy as World Champion. Having a larger TV market in the New York area helped him to get his product out to more homes when television sets were still few and far between. At the same time as Vince Senior there were also a number of southern state branches of the NWA which eventually combined through buy outs and acquisitions. The NWA had Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair as their top draws and champs in the 70's and in the 80's they decided to leave the NWA, becoming WCW and became the 2nd largest independant promotion behind the then WWF.

Fast forward to the 1990's and the "Monday Night Wars". Both companys were drawing ratings in 1.0 to 2.0 range. WCW began taking a lead over the WWF. WCW had, shall we say, attitude. Vince was still putting a show out based on cartoon characters and actually going so far as to put a Saturday morning cartoon show on Tv called "Hulk Hogan and Friends".

What did Vince do to counter WCW? He started stealing their ideas. He created a Cruiserweight division and Title, which WCW had done a year or 2 earlier. He started dropping the cartoonish characters such as Doink, the Brooklyn Brawler and the famous Gobbledy-Gooker and tried his hand at an edgier product. He started snapping up WCW talent that were seemingly being over-looked, such as a young man by the name of Steve Austin and a ham and egger he re-named "Hunter Hearst Helmsley" and gave him a character which was a rip-off of the same character he had been playing in WCW as the tag partner of Lord Steven (William" Regal) and another guy known in WCW as "Mean Mark Callous". He actually copied a the business model of WCW and according to his revisionist history "created" the "Attitude" era.

Vince McMahon has never created a "Star" of any meaningful proportion. Every star he had came from the AWA, WCCW, GCW or WCW and he merely continued the same characters they had portrayed in those companies, right down to the hero Sgt. Slaughter.

Yeah, Vince is a genius...crap.

The Rock
Undertaker
Mr Perfect
Paul Orndorff
Bret Hart
Hulk fucking Hogan
Edge
John Cena
Brutus Beefcake

Do you need me to go on?

Some of what you say is true but don't be blinded by Vince hate. If it wasn't for Vince wrestling would not be around in the U.S. today. Those regional feds along with the NWA would have folded.

As far as stealing from WCW, WCW was stealing from Japan. It goes around in circles. How about WCW stealing WWF guys? Sometimes using the same angle they used in the WWF.


As far as people saying about the TNA forum jumping while the WWE one being dead, the only things that matter are ratings and paid gate. The rating for TNA were good for ONE week and dropped right back down the next.1.26 is not good at all for all the hype they've been trying to sell.

 

[mean_gene_roberts]

The Rock
Undertaker
Mr Perfect
Paul Orndorff
Bret Hart
Hulk fucking Hogan
Edge
John Cena
Brutus Beefcake

Do you need me to go on?

Some of what you say is true but don't be blinded by Vince hate. If it wasn't for Vince wrestling would not be around in the U.S. today. Those regional feds along with the NWA would have folded.

As far as stealing from WCW, WCW was stealing from Japan. It goes around in circles. How about WCW stealing WWF guys? Sometimes using the same angle they used in the WWF.


As far as people saying about the TNA forum jumping while the WWE one being dead, the only things that matter are ratings and paid gate. The rating for TNA were good for ONE week and dropped right back down the next.1.26 is not good at all for all the hype they've been trying to sell.

The Rock (Rocky Maivia)
Undertaker (Mean Mark, one half of The Twin Towers and WCW World Tag Team Champions and still doing the same lame gimmick after 20 years)
Mr. Perfect (Curt Hennig, former AWA World Champion).
Paul Orndorf (Paul Orndorf, multiple time WCW Television and WCW World Tag Team Champion)
Bret Hart (Former something or the other champion in the promotion his father ran in Calgary [promotion name escapes me at the moment...look it up].
Hulk Hogan (Jumped ship from the AWA because Vern Gagne wouldn't put the belt on him), but already an established star with that promotion.
Edge (Already an established star in Canada...eh).
John Cena (I won't even go into what a fan favorite he is...NOT).
Brutus Beefcake (What did he ever do? Oh yeah...wore a pair of tights with holes in them).

Yes, please do go on.

And you interpreted my comments as "Vince hate". Nothing of the sort. He is obviously a brilliant business man. But if he is such a great wrestling mind, why is he ashamed to say he is in the wrestling business? In the documentary "The Unreal Story of Professional Wrestling" Vince related the story of Ted Turner calling him to say "hey guess what...I'm in the 'rasslin business now" and Vince answered "Congratulations Ted, I'm in the entertainment business".

As for the idea that if not for Vince wrestling would be dead...doubtful. It has been around for centuries in one form or another. The show must go on as they say.

 

[Robi2184]

The first thing I ask is for all the TNA marks to stop insulting people who don't share your same opinion. If not I will personally ask the mods to close the thread. Second, I never said that some veterans should not be sprinkled in. All Im saying is they are making Daniels & Dinero lose to the wrong people. Third I have alot of respect for Flair, Angle (somewhat), Sting, Foley & Team 3D, thats does not mean they are not old.

I think Nash is a good booker & Hall has an excellent mind for the business when he is not all liquored up, they should be behind the camera where they belong. They time in the ring came and left.

Im gonna tell you what I like so far and what I hate and why I think guys like Hero & Cabana should have been included instead of guys like Morley & Jordon.

The roster I put up was to make a point of how much older talent there is and how it looks like the Hogan tour and not the TNA roster.

Here is what I like to see them do, I have no problem of them trying to build Dinero, Daniels & Wolfe. The is exactly what need to be done. Fact is I like the new make over Wolfe got and Dinero is light years ahead of where he was in the WWE. My problem is I would have rather seen Daniels vs Foley who is established or maybe against Sting, same goes for Dinero. I see no point in why Venis or Jordan or why even Lashley is still lingering. They were never nothing more then mid carders or Vince's flavor of the month. Come on even Daniels vs Raven would have been better then seeing them trying to build him over with Morely. Also when was the last time Jordan wrestled in the states last I heard was that he was kissing men who looked like boys and wrestling overseas. Go out and sign yourself a Hero, a Tyler Black and Colt Cabana. Guys who are awesome on the mic & on the mat. Just mentioned 3 guys I cannot stand seeing in TNA and are taking roster spots and time from the young guns.

Let me clear something on Morely, he is another good guy with an excellent mind for the business who has no business being in the ring. He could have been an excellent booker or a jobber, but seeing him win against Daniels make my stomach turn.

Pac & The Nasty Boys must go, period. Have Team 3D put over the young guys or even Beer Money who I think are established.

The Screw Job, Hogan did was pitiful and it sucked and Hogan's promo are not the best. Also if Hall, Pac, Morely, The Nastys & Jordan just coming and going then why are they on the official roster. I thought the storyline was Hall & Pac did not have contracts.

The one thing I think they did good was getting Kendrick who is a great talent, but letting Kong and Flash get away cost them.

The Jeff Jarrett angle is the worst TV I have seen in weeks, can they get rid of him as well.

TNA take two steps forward & then they take five steps back, that is why it is so fruastrating and that is why I get so pissed. I want to see them do good, but it is hard to see any progress.

BTW and something that has not been mentioned is why in blue hell did they not get rid of freaking Russo who is a cancer for this company. That is why I mentioned Heyman and critic Heyman all you want, but the guy knows how to take no names and make them in to stars.

 

[Derf]

I will admit that I don't think in the long run the older guys coming in will help. A handful like the outsiders and MAYBE the nasty boys, sure. But not every single person they can get their hands on and then some. And what's the deal with Jeff Hardy? Has he even made more then 1 appearance since his debut?

HOWEVER, TNA has done something right, this thread is proof. People are actually paying attention to whats going on in TNA now. I used to never really pay attention, but the last few weeks I've been following the results very closely, and while I'm not overly impressed, I AM hooked, just like most of us are with RAW. So they are obviously doing something right, ain't they?