Enough Time To Grow

[NYSandman]

I've been thinking about this lately. Why does it seem that the WWE doesn't give certain talents the time they need to really develope?

You have guys who are given long TV time, big exposure and huge pushes that last for 2 years, with no result, and then you have guys who they try out for a month, and JUST when the fans start to turn around, he's mid-carded, or, worse, moved to ECW!

Take Kennedy. I like Kennedy, and feel that with enough exposure he could really flourish. During the "Who's Vince's Bastard Son" angle, you cannot tell me there wasn't hype for Kennedy at that time. It could have been his chance, and, of course, the storyline was destroyed.

We've got Cena, who has been pushed non-stop despite not getting an appropriate face response.

Carlito, who, yes, has a shit attitude sometimes, should still have been given a decent IC title run, and should have been kept a heel. His face turn kind of ruined his momentum.

Santino is now relegated to sitting at ringside and stealing sandwiches. LOL, but give the man a chance to prove himself in the ring. Expose the fans to him a bit more.

What I'm trying to say is building a good gimmick, and familiarizing wrestlers with the fans takes time. WWE isn't letting US decide anymore, they are deciding for us who makes it and who doesn't. Hogan, Rock, Austin didn't start off as Gods, it took time. Rocky was universally hated when he started. Remember Hunter Herse Helmsley? HE SUCKED! The Ringmaster? LOL!

It took time for the fans to come around. Let's hope the WWE stops shortchanging good, young talent, and gives them a chance to become great, old talent.

 

[Shocky]

The Problem is, and I'm going to get flamed for it, so here goes, WWE has become WCW. The old guys in charge simply won't get out of the way and let the young guys do what they do. The Triple H's of the world, the HBK's, and the Ric Flair's still have their spot in the company, and quite frankly, they shouldn't. Trips and HBK bitched about the dinosaurs not getting out of the way for them ten years ago, but here we are, ten years later, and they have become those guys they criticized.

People are afraid to step out of the shadow, because it usually is squashed with a shovel fairly quickly. If guys speak out against the company, they are buried. Pretty much, it's a situation where the wrong guys are in charge of the politics back stage, and don't take too well to criticism of any kind.

Look at a guy like Edge. All the talent in the world, massively over as a heel, a great character, but he chooses to go to the B show simply to avoid getting squashed by a returning Triple H. This is a problem, and a big problem. You have guys like Triple H and HBK, proven to not be the draws that the WWE would like you to think they are, still headlining shows a decade out of their primes.

The WWE has probably the best young talented roster out there. These guys are simply afraid to make a name for themselves or standout because someone higher and more insecure will take notice of them as well. Whether it be that person doesn't know how to work "heel" properly, wears green tights, has too long of hair, doesn't cut the correct style of promo, there are always excuses why to keep the people on top, on top, and the people on the bottom under neath them.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

I whole heartedly agree that they need to build people up on a more equalized playing field.

I for one am tired of the "sudden emergence, sudden push". Hardly ever do we get people that start out as a rookie, they start to earn a fan base, get put into a tag team, make a name for themselves, win the midcard title 2 or 3 times, and then hit a few key feuds, then make it to the top. Most of the best guys have gone through this route. Bret Hart? Check. Stone Cold? Check. Michaels? Check. Edge? Check.

Take a look at one of their mistakes that they can still manage to correct: Elijah Burke. For so long, people wanted him as the ECW champ. Does he deserve it? No. He's a talented guy, but should the first belt he wins be the third highest belt? Come on. I would completely believe in him as the Intercontinental or United States champion, 100%, but not as a quote-unquote "world champion" off the bat.

Then take a look at Morrison. He's been going the old school method. He started out in a tag team, won the titles, made a name for himself, won the midcard belt, moved on to the step above the midcard (ECW title), and if he keeps a clear mind about himself and the WWE opens up a spot, he's someone who will be a future main event star.

I HATED the fact that Santino was the IC champ as a nobody. That immediately made me dislike him. Now that he is a heel and isn't taken as seriously, I like the guy, cause he's a very talented "jackass". Since he's getting a reaction, should he get a hot shot into the WHC title? No. Lol.

There are several problems as to why they do this, I feel...

1. Triple H - The guy's talented, no question about it. The guy's easily one of the best they have, no question about it. The guy's self-serving and manipulative backstage, no question about it, and that's the problem. Even though you can say HBK still has a bit of an ego about himself, you can't say its even close to HHH's. HBK has stated he doesn't want the main event, he puts over talent more than HHH, doesn't give himself needless title reigns, etc. Triple H, it always seems like he wants to be the last man introduced, the man everyone focuses on, etc. Guaranteed he doesn't want the main event to be crowded with guys like Morrison, Kennedy, MVP, Hardy, and so forth because then people don't care as much about him.

2. The Attitude Era - The beginning of it was FANTASTIC. DX, the beginning of Stone Cold and the Rock, the New Age Outlaws...classic. However, the reason I stopped watching wrestling around 99 was because it became a two man show. If you weren't watching Stone Cold, you were watching the Rock. I think ever since then, the WWE wants to create a new Hogan or Stone Cold or Rock...a guy that they can pull the Atlas situation on and have him carry the company. Who is the focal point now? Cena. They're stretching it, though. Stone Cold got extremely popular and they weren't expecting it. It evolved naturally. Cena was popular but then the shock value faded and now they've spent the last 2 years cramming him down our throats hoping to get back to the loud pops. So as long as they want to have "one guy on top of the world", and as long as they want to keep cramming Cena down our throats, they won't let anybody else surpass him.

3. Organization - The WWE can't push people if you have nobody to push them against. The two main shows, Raw and Smackdown, should have about 8-10 main event stars a piece (counting heels and faces together, so 4 or 5 faces with 4 or 5 heels), and everyone else should be used for the midcard and jobber status, with tag teams made up of those. But, if you have only 2 heels on Smackdown that aren't "monsters" (that would be Edge and MVP), and one of them hasn't been pushed to the main event yet (MVP), that leaves you with Edge, who has had a feud this year with Mysterio, Undertaker, and Batista....leaving you with no more fresh faces for Edge to feud with. So switch it up! Don't just run the same crap, because if you do, then nobody goes anywhere.

4. Flexibility/Repetitiveness - Idk about you guys, but I'm so sick and tired of seeing this unwritten "best of 3" rule. Apparently, the mindset of the WWE this past year or so, has been that nobody can accomplish anything unless its the third or fourth try. Cena versus Orton at Summerslam? Cena retains. Next ppv? Cena retains. Next ppv? Orton only gets the belt because Cena is injured, but I bet they'd have had him retain. Do something unpredictable once in a while...have someone win a championship on the first shot that they get in the feud (not just a newly introduced guy). For instance, if you want to start a Jericho/Kennedy feud for the IC title, have Kennedy beat Jericho on the first ppv and win the belt. Don't make it a three time thing before you change the belt holder.



On a side note, I have to blame some of the fans I've seen on here for following the same rule. How many people have been saying recently that they wished Kofi Kingston would win the ECW title at Wrestlemania? The guy's had less than a dozen matches, all of which have been against jobbers. Does he really warrant a world title run right now? Yeah, he's entertaining, but you're getting ahead of yourselves. Give the guy a little space. Cody Rhodes, he went through a couple of matches, got into a feud with Holly, now he's a tag team champion. And yes, they haven't done jack shit with those titles for some reason, so that's annoying, but at least this gives him some "ladder credibility". Some newbie comes in like Colin Delaney and you want him to win the US title, give me a break. When people seemingly earn their spots, it seems all the more authentic. Another point of reference is Kennedy. He's definitely a talented guy who could be a major player in the WWE, but he doesn't need the top title this minute. He's lost a lot of steam since his previous push, so give him a midcard title and let him dominate for a while. GIVE HIM THE MIC - THE THING THAT GOT HIM NOTICED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Let the fans grow to love him again and chant his name every time there's a piece of dead air in the arena. Just a tiny little step back to help him regain his footing and then take off on a giant leap.

WWE definitely needs to let their talent develop instead of just hoping that they can push them right off the bat and hope the public makes them into the next big star. First, they need to reorganize their rosters for maximum logic, plan out for the future, and then base their creative decisions accordingly.

 

[Havocxx]

Incredible post, NoFate. Well thought out, and certainly rings true on many points.

I just wanted to add a few more issues the WWE should deal with in terms of getting the young talent over.

ENOUGH of the video packages, especially on RAW.

I don't want to see the same three things Orton/HHH/Cena have said about each other 4 weeks in a row with slightly different videos with slightly different songs. These video packages eat up time that SHOULD be spent on live promos, backstage segments (where have these gone), and god forbid, some actual wrestling.

You can't have a mid carder work on tag titles or aim for the mid card belts if you don't have freakin mid card matches. There are no mid card stables, there's never any tag team story development. The closest thing we've gotten tag team story-wise is on ECW, and it seems they've stopped it.

Instead we have the video packages that take 5+ minutes up and lead to a commercial break without any live wrestling/promo.

We get it, Cena came back "On the final second of the final minute of the final hour of the final day to see Triple H proclaim he couldn't live without Orton being the combination of him and Cena's best attributes" Spectacular.

Midcard stables, tag teams, and the midcard belts really need to be reestablished.

Even jobber stables like Kai En Tai were far more entertaining than these useless video packages.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

Incredible post, NoFate. Well thought out, and certainly rings true on many points.

I just wanted to add a few more issues the WWE should deal with in terms of getting the young talent over.

ENOUGH of the video packages, especially on RAW.

I don't want to see the same three things Orton/HHH/Cena have said about each other 4 weeks in a row with slightly different videos with slightly different songs. These video packages eat up time that SHOULD be spent on live promos, backstage segments (where have these gone), and god forbid, some actual wrestling.

You can't have a mid carder work on tag titles or aim for the mid card belts if you don't have freakin mid card matches. There are no mid card stables, there's never any tag team story development. The closest thing we've gotten tag team story-wise is on ECW, and it seems they've stopped it.

Instead we have the video packages that take 5+ minutes up and lead to a commercial break without any live wrestling/promo.

We get it, Cena came back "On the final second of the final minute of the final hour of the final day to see Triple H proclaim he couldn't live without Orton being the combination of him and Cena's best attributes" Spectacular.

Midcard stables, tag teams, and the midcard belts really need to be reestablished.

Even jobber stables like Kai En Tai were far more entertaining than these useless video packages.

Oh man, don't even get me started on the needless promo thing. I couldn't agree with you more. If we had more wrestling, more guys would get exposure, so more guys would be popular, so we'd have bigger stars. This week's episode of Raw had FIVE promos for the Mayweather match. FIVE IN A 2 HOUR SPAN FOR THE SAME MATCH!! That's not even counting that they'll most likely show edits of the same ones on ECW and Smackdown this week. If you don't care about something by now, you're not going to change your mind. Sometimes you have to go the route of "less is more". Look at the film Cloverfield. The movie trailer was placed in front of Transformers, a film that was guaranteed to make a lot of money, so lots of people would see it. It was a short trailer that didn't tell us the full plot of the film in detail, didn't let us see the monster (or let us know that it was even a monster for sure), and it didn't tell us the title. "1-18-08". That's all we got. As time went on, things developed, but we still hadn't seen any pictures of the monster. When it premiered, it had an incredible box office gross. Make the people crave to see more, don't bombard them with so much of it that they couldn't care less! You should theoretically spend the whole night of Raw waiting to see something happen with each major feud. You should be craving to see your champions even more. Think of it this way: what happens every January when the Royal Rumble ppv is happening? Everyone is sitting there, watching the matches, desperately waiting for the Royal Rumble match itself. They haven't seen it in a full year, so when its announced that "the following contest is the ROYAL RUMBLE MATCH", the crowd goes apeshit. If you had a battle royal once a month throughout the whole year, the Royal Rumble wouldn't mean as much. Same goes for short-term things as well. If you show 12 promos a week based on the same few wrestlers, then nobody cares when you showcase them in matches, and the "build-up" becomes less of a "climb towards an emotional apex" so to speak, and more of a really long swim through an ocean....repetitive, boring, and an emotional flatline instead of an adrenaline boost.

Less promos = more craving
More craving = better reaction
Better reaction = bigger draw
Bigger draw = more money
More money = happy WWE

Also...

Less promos = more wrestling
More wrestling = more superstars
More superstars = more exposure
More exposure = more popularity
More popularity = bigger draw
Bigger draw = more money
More money = happy WWE



Its simple.

 

[hungry cow]

I think to push people it would be better to have more story lines for people. It seems like outside of the 2 main titles there just aren't many actual continuing story lines. You simply can't push everyone who deserves it through winning because that requires people losing which means they can't get pushed or lose credibility as someone to beat. But good story lines cause people to care about all the people involved. However it seems like most of Smackdown and Raw is random matches with no storyline or build with video packages for the one storyline surrounding the main title all night. So all the other wrestlers don't have the chance to use their mike skills or make people care about them. There needs to be more actual angles for people outside of the main titles, like the MVP Matt Hardy feud, or even something little like the Jamie Noble Chuck Palumbo feud rather than lots of seemingly random matches.

 

[incrediblesim]

Great thread!

As has been stated on this thread WWE easily has a really talented young roster. But instead of letting us see the Carlito's, Benjamin's and Burke's of this world we get countless video packages about the same guys over and over again. It seems as though unless they recycle old feuds or someone makes a return we never see any new feuds or faces on the title scene.

The focus on all three shows on 2 main belts- the tag and mid-card belts aren't given the time of day. So you can't push a guy using the IC belt or the US belt anymore because nobody gives a damn and having those belts doesn't give anymore credibility than what he started out with.

Also I think this is the year where HHH, HBK, Undertaker all start to slowly wind down their career- not job to anyone but slowly make the transistion to mid-card. IMO Undertaker should be the only one out of the three in the main event of WM 25 and thats so that the streak can either be used to get a younger guy over or for it to be used to cement Takers legacy in the WWE.