End of the Hart Dynasty?

[#1Peep]

Now this is a question i ask you #1peep, where does this leave Natalia

Well as Natalya is currently at the head of the Divas division I think this leaves her in a pretty good position. I don't think Nattie was benefiting as the manager of the Hart Dynasty anymore and she is a much better fit competing in the ring. Althought it would have been interesting to see what side she took in the break up, because if she turned heel alongside her boyfriend Tyson Kidd, it could have opened up a feud with Beth Phoenix.

So basically, althought she is a much better fit as a wrestler in the Divas divison, it would have been interesting to see her stick it out until the feud between Kidd and Smith was resolved.

 

[Chill]

Originally Posted By #1Peep:
Now my questions to you are:
Do you believe that both Kidd and Smith will be succesful singles stars and avoid being released?

I hope so, I like them, even though we've still yet to see what either man really has to offer. But given their backgrounds, they do have a large upside but what I think hurts them most is the personality or lack there of. Sure, you could say they haven't really been given a chance to display much charisma, which is true, but if they ever do get more mic time they had better make the most of it otherwise a pink slip could be coming. Luckily they do have the connection to the Hart name and all that training in the Dungeon jazz and while I personally prefer Tyson Kidd, you can't help but feel it's Smith who has the better chance of survival given who his daddy was and his size...

Did the WWE pick the correct roles for both men ie. Smith being face, Kidd being heel?

I don't think so actually. To me, Kidd will struggle as a heel because of his size unless he develops an arrogant, annoying personna where he maybe cheats to win and find a way to get under people's skin. To me, he has the ability to evoke cheers given his move set and what not so why not make him the face? Smith, on the other hand has the size to pull off a dangerous, 'don't want to miss with me' heel but regardless of that, WWE have obviously chosen to go the other way and I hope they can pull it off.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I feel they have got this the wrong way round personally... I felt that Smith should be a heel with Regal as his manager, teaching him the "British Way" that the Harts never did...

But I see the logic, with Barrett, McIntyre and Sheamus as heels, WWE wants to play off the "Baby Bulldog" to give the Brits a hero and to guarantee some big gates on UK shows...

 

[UltimateHitman]

This is a good thread. While I can't say I was overly impressed with the Hart Dynasty I think that they did the right thing here. I watched the Hart Dynasty, and really tried to get into them. As a die hard Bret fan since the 80's I tried like hell. But I just couldn't. They were too "vanilla", too plain, to me. I do prefer Kidd over Smith though. Smith is just way too generic. And I think they might have been wrong to make him a face even though I see the logic behind it. He would have just a little more personality as a heel and come off better than his face generic-ness. Let's face it, he doesn't have the definition to be seen in his daddy's light, and quite frankly he just reminds me of a big gulp version of David Flair. Kidd, on the other hand, could have pulled off a face a little better based on the move set, as somebody already mentioned, and also by having that smaller "underdog" feel. However, that being said, a lot of faces that rose in popularity actually started getting noticed during a good heel run which helped polish their technique and made more of an impact when they turned face which is what I could see happening with Kidd, ala Miz. That is what happened with the Rock which I see similarities between Rock's initial debut as the "smiling Rocky" that got all the Die Rocky Die and Rocky Sucks chants and the Hart Dynasty which was also just a sickeningly sweet cliche team. Now if they had turned them heel, that would have worked more in their favor, as they could have went the route of their predecessors the Hart Foundation. I think that would've worked out better as long as they put a solid effort into the heel turn. So I would have to resign to the fact that they made the best decision they could in this situation besides just turning them both heel. It was probably the better thing in the long run for Kidd who I tend to picture as the Bret to Smith's Neidhart. But only time will truly tell.

 

[JGlass]

You bring up a good point for debate when you asked did they do the right thing making Kidd the heel. My first inclination was no, because as we heard that one night on commentary, Kidd was the talker of the two, and he was pretty witty. Smith, on the other hand, was quiet and only opened his mouth for quick comebacks to Cole. It's easier for guys like this, quiet and short of words, to be heels, because they can always stick them with a heel manager who can talk. Hell, I think we'd all like to see Cole get out from behind the announce table from time to time to be in a heel's corner... but it's not in the cards for this Hart Dynasty big man.

However, upon closer examination, WWE made the right choice. Smith has a clean cut face look about him, while Tyson Kidd has that mean, small but tough heel look about him. Furthermore, and correct me if I'm wrong, but when the Dynasty were heels, it was Tyson who did all the dirty deeds, while Smith would tag in to run people over and just abuse his size and power.

They're future in singles? They both have a pretty good chance considering their pedigree.

Tyson Kidd- All Tyson Kidd talk from JGlass must begin with my personal belief that the dude needs a fucking haircut. His wrestling ability forces me to take him seriously, but that haircut still makes me doubt his ability to live life. He looks like an idiot.

That said, Tyson Kidd is not an idiot, but a very competent and exciting wrestler. In fact, he may be the most exciting small-heel in the WWE behind Dolph Ziggler. He puts intensity into everyone of his matches and always hustles. He has his fair share of exciting offense and has many tricks up his sleeve. He combines high flying moves with brutal kicks, and he has a decent technical game as well.

Kidd's downside, besides his haircut, is his ability to match up against big name faces. He looks like the type of guy John Cena can toss around the ring for an easy 5 minute win. He IS the type of guy that would get in 10 seconds of offense on Randy Orton before eating an RKO. Big Show? He'd get killed. Edge? He'd wind up getting outwitted by him after about 7 minutes. Undertaker? Ha.

There are plenty of other faces Kidd could feud with: Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, Kofi, JoMo, Bourne... but these are not main event feuds, or at least, not now. He's going to have to wait a few years before any of these guys are main eventers to join them... and probably lose. Still, people have made careers out of less, so I think Kidd will have a somewhat successful heel run in the WWE for a nice long time.

David Hart Smith- As we all know, Vince loves his big men, and Smith is one of the most traditional big men I've seen in a long time. Not only is he big, but he can WRESTLE. We've seen plenty of big men who get by on size and size alone, utilizing big clotheslines and lackluster body slams to dominate smaller competitors. But Smith has moves. He uses real power moves and has many supplex variations. One of my favorite things he does is delayed supplexes where he holds his opponents in the vertical position for perhaps 10 seconds before eventually dropping them. I think if pushed correctly, he could eventually feud with the likes of Sheamus, and the two of them could put on a pretty decent match. I'd also like to see him feud with Alberto del Rio and Drew MacIntyre, the latter of which I think could be used to shoot Hart into the main event at least temporarily.

His downside comes in his speaking ability. Now he had some decent one liners that one time on commentary, but this is not a sufficient sample size on which to draw a conclusion on his overall ability. I don't think anyone knows what to expect out of the big man. The good news is (for DH anyway), we've seen many a wrestler get by with less. John Morrison, Ted DiBiase, Big Zeke, all lacking talent on the mic, but all have their place in WWE programming.

The prognosis: Good. At the very least he's a talented big man, and Vince loves to keep those types in his arsenal. If nothing at all else, he can use his size and skill to remain credible to help get over guys who are smaller than he. However, I think Mr. Smith has more to look forward to than a career of talent enhancement, as his ability is too good to overlook. He will have a few very good feuds over the next year, and will eventually find himself as a midcard mainstay, perhaps even feuding for a midcard title. He may break into the main event eventually, but not for many years, and not until he has a landmark feud.

 

[Remix]

Having seen Kidd vs Smith: This time its televised I'd have to say that I was right in my assumption that the split wouldn't hurt either of them. Given TV time they'll produce good enough matches to keep themselves employed and possibly warrent a push if fresh blood is needed in the US title scene. Now to examine the entrails and make some predictions.

I've got to say I like Smith, and I think he's got a good upside. He's young, he's tallented and he's big. The size is the crucial thing here, but not for the obvious reason. It's a good thing because it enables him to do his stuff to near damn everyone on the roster. If I had any power, I'd book Smith as a midcard monster who suplexes the living fuck out of anybody who gets in his way. He'll never cut a good promo, but his ring work alone warrents him at least a midcard run. In my opinion he's got an assload of potential, and he may as well be allowed to stick around while he reaches it.

Kidd bad hair aside is good in the ring. Damn good infact. He does, in my opinion have less raw potential than Smith, but that's mostly because he can't do his best stuff against big guys and is older. He is however better on the mic, and probably in the ring (especially against guys who are around his size). He was also in my opinion the right guy to turn face. He has a naturally aggressive style and pulled off the role against Smith admarably. He's also got the mic skills needed to cut an ok promo to get the crowd against him, which Smith doesn't. After this feud's done, I expect he'll get given the first US title feud of the two (which probably means he's going over, for a time at least), which is especially likely if DBD is still holding the title because they'd definately have some good matches and he's already of the correct allignment for a feud to take place. After that though I doubt he'll ever reach higher. This is mostly because he is, in my humble opinion a poor man's Kaval who isn't good enough to make up for his lack of size. Given some build, that might change. However I doubt that it will.

 

[LSN80]

Hopefully this will give Kidd the singles push that he deserves. The guy is super talented in the ring, and DH Smith unfortunately has shown to be nothing more then a powerhouse. I was shocked they gave him the first victory in what should be a series of matches between the two, with Kidd hopefully coming out on top at the end.

The only knock against Kidd is his size. But he's quick, athletic, and a submissions specialist in the ring. Sound like anyone else on Raw? Maybe the US champion Daniel Bryan? He would be a natural to be Bryan's next feud for the US title. Ive seen Kidd wrestle since he was in ECW, and Ive always been throughly impressed with his body of work.

While not a huge fan of DH Smith, especially as a singles wrestler, I felt he and Kidd worked well together as a team. As a fan of tag team wrestling, I think its a shame that yet another tag team in WWE was broken up for no apparent reason. Hopefully, that reason will be to get Kidd over as a heel and a singles push, but hes not off to a good start. Yeah, I think we've seen the end of the Hart Dynasty.

 

[The Calgary Kid]

I was incredibly disappointed that they broke up as a team, as they were really the only legit tag team left in WWE and were capable of putting on great matches together. I haven't had a chance to check out the Superstars match between the two, but I'm sure they put on a decent show. I think that they could have some fun matches with each other, especially given their background. Will they come anywhere close to replicating feuds that Bret had with Owen and Davey? Not a chance, but if there is one thing that my years as a wrestling fan have taught me, it is that some (obviously not all) of the most entertaining and competitive matches are those put on by people who know each other and/or trained together. Jericho and Storm come to mind as another example.

Did they make the right choice in who turned heel? Yes, I definitely think so. Kidd has kind of a crazy edge to him (consider how he screams "Ask him!" when he has opponent locked into a submission move), and a certain cockiness that he can exhibit in his face quite well. DH might seem like the natural choice for a heel based on his size, but I'm glad they didn't go the stereotypical route. He's also more clean-cut and literally baby-faced, on top of his heel mic work being worse than his face mic work.

I really look forward to seeing Kidd use heel tactics and "ruthless aggression" in addition to his already awesome move set. The thought of a US title feud between him and Bryan makes me salivate. He might be an even better in-ring foil than Ziggler, and that's saying something. The natural course of action from there, if he won the title (it's too soon, IMO) would be to have a full-blown feud with DH at that point, with the title involved as a legit standard of measurement as to "who is better?". This is probably going to be the closest to an HBK/Jannetty scenario that we've seen in a long time.

 

[Remix]

I was incredibly disappointed that they broke up as a team, as they were really the only legit tag team left in WWE and were capable of putting on great matches together.

What makes them any more legit than the Nexus, Santino/Kozlov, ShoMiz or any other "thrown together" tag team?

I haven't had a chance to check out the Superstars match between the two, but I'm sure they put on a decent show. I think that they could have some fun matches with each other, especially given their background. Will they come anywhere close to replicating feuds that Bret had with Owen and Davey? Not a chance, but if there is one thing that my years as a wrestling fan have taught me, it is that some (obviously not all) of the most entertaining and competitive matches are those put on by people who know each other and/or trained together. Jericho and Storm come to mind as another example.

[YOUTUBE]377mq85tins[/YOUTUBE]

Here's the match for you. It's good I assure you. And I agree with this paragraph. They've been working together for a decade and are for all intents and purposes family members

Did they make the right choice in who turned heel? Yes, I definitely think so. Kidd has kind of a crazy edge to him (consider how he screams "Ask him!" when he has opponent locked into a submission move), and a certain cockiness that he can exhibit in his face quite well. DH might seem like the natural choice for a heel based on his size, but I'm glad they didn't go the stereotypical route. He's also more clean-cut and literally baby-faced, on top of his heel mic work being worse than his face mic work.

Agreed. Tyson's the better heel. He's got the micwork to make the turn work which Smith doesn't and the viciousness also fits his new allignment.

I really look forward to seeing Kidd use heel tactics and "ruthless aggression" in addition to his already awesome move set. The thought of a US title feud between him and Bryan makes me salivate. He might be an even better in-ring foil than Ziggler, and that's saying something.

As wrestlers go, Kidd and Danielson are pretty much two sides of the same coin. They're both technically sound guys who add a few high flying moves to their matches. However Kidd's got the kayfabe mean streak to go with it. I do rate Ziggler higher than Kidd though, but that's a personal thing.

Smith and DBD would also have good matches as well, with Smith being an entirely different opponent to anyone DBD's been up against in WWE so far. He's one of the very few big guys who can hang with DBD on the mat, rather than relying on power with no technique.

The natural course of action from there, if he won the title (it's too soon, IMO) would be to have a full-blown feud with DH at that point, with the title involved as a legit standard of measurement as to "who is better?". This is probably going to be the closest to an HBK/Jannetty scenario that we've seen in a long time.

The problem with that though is that it more or less requires one of the two to be obviously worse than the other. Which simply isn't the case here. Kidd is probably the superior wrestler at this time, but Smith has so much potential it's unreal. He may have less mic skill than a mute, but he's young and is damn good already and will continue to improve as he matures as a wrestler.

If you ask me the best thing to do is have them feud over pride before sending Smith to Smackdown (via a loser leaves Raw match) so that the two can develop without the other's presence. After that, we'll see what happens.

 

[Tech N9ne]

I don't think it is necessarily an END to The Hart Dynasty. But this is definitely a break for a while. They want to build each of them singly. I like them as a team, but I would also like to see what each of them can do by themselves.

I believe we will see them together again one day. Maybe it won't even be a long time away. I considered this more of a break, than a break-up.

 

[The Calgary Kid]

What makes them any more legit than the Nexus, Santino/Kozlov, ShoMiz or any other "thrown together" tag team?

What I mean by that is that, as a tag team, they have a proper gimmick. While they did debut separately, their singles debuts were unheralded and no one remembers them. They made a name for themselves as a tag team, under the guise of being descendants of the Hart family and/or graduates of the dungeon, wearing pink and black, etc. Your examples of "thrown together" tag teams are just that: singles wrestlers who have already separately made a name for themselves and are thrown together for the sake of having a tag team. THD was more of a proper team in the vein of, say, The Hart Foundation, The Bushwhackers, The Nasty Boys or even Cryme Tyme. You can argue that the Nexus has a common gimmick as a stable, but a team like Slater and Gabriel consists of two guys with completely different backgrounds and individual gimmicks who are only together because they are in a stable composed of guys who were on a show together and currently have the titles because Barrett said they should.

As wrestlers go, Kidd and Danielson are pretty much two sides of the same coin. They're both technically sound guys who add a few high flying moves to their matches. However Kidd's got the kayfabe mean streak to go with it. I do rate Ziggler higher than Kidd though, but that's a personal thing.

I agree, which is why I find the prospect of them facing off to be exciting. The counters and execution they could display in the ring would be like a ballet and they would, in my opinion, play off of each other very well. A submission match would be pretty epic. I also rate Ziggler higher than Kidd, but I was referring to Kidd as a better "in-ring foil" due to their similar styles. Ziggler is a fantastic wrestler and blends a number of different styles to create his own (which is one thing I find so fascinating about him), but he is a completely different animal than DBD or Kidd. It is the similarity of their styles clashing that I find so intriguing, as I think that they would play off of each other extremely well.

Smith and DBD would also have good matches as well, with Smith being an entirely different opponent to anyone DBD's been up against in WWE so far. He's one of the very few big guys who can hang with DBD on the mat, rather than relying on power with no technique.

You raise a very interesting point here, and it furthers the discussion of ring styles and how DBD matches up with different kinds of opponents. He and Kidd have finesse and technical abilities, Ziggler has more amateur mat prowess, and Smith has the rare combination of power and skill, as you said. While similar styles colliding can be fascinating, it's also a testament to a wrestler's skill as to how he matches up with others who possess an entirely different set of skills.

Kidd put on an extremely entertaining match with JoMo last month, who is more of a strict high-flyer, which makes me think that he's capable of putting on some great matches with any of the more talented guys on the roster, regardless of style. It was interesting to see how he kept up with the aerial game on his own, and simultaneously tried to keep JoMo's on the mat. One of the most overlooked things in wrestling though, is how good you can look in the ring by yourself when facing a lesser opponent, which goes a long way in determining how good you are. I'm curious to see how he does against someone like McIntyre, who is one of the worst, as far as I'm concerned.

Smith is, IMO, very underrated in the ring, and one potential benefit to a singles path for him is that he can showcase his talents a bit more. The unfortunate thing about professional wrestling though, is that it is rare that we see face vs. face and heel vs. heel, so the opportunity to see Smith and DBD put on a competitive match is practically null and void for the time being, hence why I didn't think of or mention it.

If you ask me the best thing to do is have them feud over pride before sending Smith to Smackdown (via a loser leaves Raw match) so that the two can develop without the other's presence. After that, we'll see what happens.

I'm sure that there would be some sort of feud between the two, but I don't think that they will be separated by a "loser leaves Raw" match, as neither of them are high enough on the card that the average fan would care as much as you or I would. I do agree that their best opportunity to develop is one in which they aren't fighting each other for screen/ring time or even displayed in the same show so that people can judge them completely independently, but I see a split happening during the draft being the most likely scenario. As the draft likely won't happen until after 'Mania, something else might develop in the meantime, or we could get another three PPV feud, which again, I don't think enough people would care about.

 

[MMSoldier]

The end of the dynasty was destined to come after they lost the titles. Now they need to give smith a new partner. He cannot be alone, unless they turn him into a jobber. Kidd is an intresting case. Whatever he does,we need to keep an eye on him.

 

[Remix]

What I mean by that is that, as a tag team, they have a proper gimmick. While they did debut separately, their singles debuts were unheralded and no one remembers them. They made a name for themselves as a tag team, under the guise of being descendants of the Hart family and/or graduates of the dungeon, wearing pink and black, etc.

And what makes that any better than a thrown together team? It still gives two otherwise irrelevent guys something to do until the team can split and the members can go do better things. Literally every "legit" tag team was just a thrown together tag team. the MCMG were thrown together Beer Money were thrown together. To an extent the Hart Dynasty were thrown togwther. Cryme Tyme were thrown together. THe Dudebusters were thrown together, had another wrestler added to the mix who then dropped out.

Your examples of "thrown together" tag teams are just that: singles wrestlers who have already separately made a name for themselves and are thrown together for the sake of having a tag team. THD was more of a proper team in the vein of, say, The Hart Foundation, The Bushwhackers, The Nasty Boys or even Cryme Tyme.

The same Cryme Tyme that was thrown together in OVW?

You're not helping your point when you point to guys who were irrelevent on their own before and in most cases after they were teamed up. The tag divison is obsolete now. And it's TV time that has made it so, not the shortage of "legit" teams.

You can argue that the Nexus has a common gimmick as a stable, but a team like Slater and Gabriel consists of two guys with completely different backgrounds and individual gimmicks who are only together because they are in a stable composed of guys who were on a show together and currently have the titles because Barrett said they should.

So because Tyson and Smith have known eachother for 14 years they're a better tag team than Santino and Kozlov? Because the crowd sure as hell disagrees.

I agree, which is why I find the prospect of them facing off to be exciting. The counters and execution they could display in the ring would be like a ballet and they would, in my opinion, play off of each other very well. A submission match would be pretty epic. I also rate Ziggler higher than Kidd, but I was referring to Kidd as a better "in-ring foil" due to their similar styles. Ziggler is a fantastic wrestler and blends a number of different styles to create his own (which is one thing I find so fascinating about him), but he is a completely different animal than DBD or Kidd. It is the similarity of their styles clashing that I find so intriguing, as I think that they would play off of each other extremely well.

Agreed here. Fun fact, Ziggler is the guy that THQ use for animating the wrestlers in the SVR games. He found Khali to be the hardest.

You raise a very interesting point here, and it furthers the discussion of ring styles and how DBD matches up with different kinds of opponents. He and Kidd have finesse and technical abilities, Ziggler has more amateur mat prowess, and Smith has the rare combination of power and skill, as you said. While similar styles colliding can be fascinating, it's also a testament to a wrestler's skill as to how he matches up with others who possess an entirely different set of skills.

Yes, DBD is a great worker who can steam the show with near damn anybody who can keep up with him.

Kidd put on an extremely entertaining match with JoMo last month, who is more of a strict high-flyer, which makes me think that he's capable of putting on some great matches with any of the more talented guys on the roster, regardless of style. It was interesting to see how he kept up with the aerial game on his own, and simultaneously tried to keep JoMo's on the mat. One of the most overlooked things in wrestling though, is how good you can look in the ring by yourself when facing a lesser opponent, which goes a long way in determining how good you are. I'm curious to see how he does against someone like McIntyre, who is one of the worst, as far as I'm concerned.

I agree, and for the record, Smith has also produced good matches with Morrison and McIntyre.

[YOUTUBE]I5NzuyDnaQs[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]YCD1BoFCU04[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]tL9iMpRN7XA[/YOUTUBE]

Smith is, IMO, very underrated in the ring, and one potential benefit to a singles path for him is that he can showcase his talents a bit more. The unfortunate thing about professional wrestling though, is that it is rare that we see face vs. face and heel vs. heel, so the opportunity to see Smith and DBD put on a competitive match is practically null and void for the time being, hence why I didn't think of or mention it.

Very true, but they do happen on occasion (for example the most recent Cena vs Orton match). And there's still plenty of time for the match to take place. By the time it does one of the two may have turned heel.

I'm sure that there would be some sort of feud between the two, but I don't think that they will be separated by a "loser leaves Raw" match, as neither of them are high enough on the card that the average fan would care as much as you or I would.

But it would make a lot of sence. Kidd can't stand Smith and doesn't want to be around him any more after carrying him in the HD for all those years. Smith for his part wants his poind of flesh for Kidd's betrayal. Sending him away is the next best thing for him. It means he doesn't have to see the trator every week.

[qupte]I do agree that their best opportunity to develop is one in which they aren't fighting each other for screen/ring time or even displayed in the same show so that people can judge them completely independently, but I see a split happening during the draft being the most likely scenario. As the draft likely won't happen until after 'Mania, something else might develop in the meantime, or we could get another three PPV feud, which again, I don't think enough people would care about.[/QUOTE]

I doubt it'll last three months. Neither of them have the charisma to pull that off without it getting tired. The matches will deliver, but it's hard to keep sometihng fresh if one guy's doing all the mic work for a feud.

The end of the dynasty was destined to come after they lost the titles.

It was destined to happen a long time before that. It was destined to happen back when they first teamed up. Eventually there would come a time when one or both of the guys outgrew the team, and that's what happened here.

Now they need to give smith a new partner.

Why?

He cannot be alone, unless they turn him into a jobber.

Yes, let's turn the 24 yearold with a mountain of raw potential into a jobber. That makes perfect sence.

Kidd is an intresting case. Whatever he does,we need to keep an eye on him.

He's the better short term prospect. He's a heel so he can transition nocely into a feud with DBD and the matches they'd have would be well worth watching.

 

[The HEEL JuiceLee]

1st a question, tyson kidd, how is he related to the harts, i know DH is Davey boy smiths son, and natalya is ANVILS daughter, but how does TYSON fit in with the HARTS???? ANYWAYS i know teddy hart used to work with the hart dynasty in there indy days, i would love if vinny-mac gave him a 3rd chance and let him and natalya tRY too tell TYSON & DH to make up,and jackson andrews could choke slam teddy, then maybe teddy could team with DH who i think has potential, but should tag for atleast another year maybe 2.plus everytime i see the harts i feel like teddy is so much better and he deserves to be up there with his family.

 

[The Calgary Kid]

And what makes that any better than a thrown together team? It still gives two otherwise irrelevent guys something to do until the team can split and the members can go do better things. Literally every "legit" tag team was just a thrown together tag team. the MCMG were thrown together Beer Money were thrown together. To an extent the Hart Dynasty were thrown togwther. Cryme Tyme were thrown together. THe Dudebusters were thrown together, had another wrestler added to the mix who then dropped out.

The same Cryme Tyme that was thrown together in OVW?

You're not helping your point when you point to guys who were irrelevent on their own before and in most cases after they were teamed up. The tag divison is obsolete now. And it's TV time that has made it so, not the shortage of "legit" teams.

So because Tyson and Smith have known eachother for 14 years they're a better tag team than Santino and Kozlov? Because the crowd sure as hell disagrees.

Sorry it's taken me a bit to get back to you. Real life and all that, haven't had chance to write a decent reply.

Anyway, my point regarding "legit" tag teams is those that are together based on a specific gimmick. I'm not talking about having a better chance of being taken seriously, and I wasn't referring to being paired off in developmental territories. Sure, guys like Cryme Tyme were never relevant on their own and certainly haven't been since their split. Part of the point of tag teams is for guys who don't offer much in singles competition to work out some kinks, try to get over and for management to see if there's anything there that makes them worthwhile. It's a lost art these days as, as you said, the tag team division is pretty much dead and the current trend is to throw two established guys together because there is nothing else for them to do as singles competitors, since they have no intention of getting rid of the belts.

What I was referring to though, are the teams that debut as a team in WWE. Let's face it, not everyone gets FCW or got OVW and even if it's available, not every wrestling fan bothers. General knowledge of their existence does change things a bit, as there is more awareness that guys who debut as a tag team weren't always competing as such or even with their current gimmick. Does anyone remember what Knobbs and Saggs were doing before they debuted as The Nasty Boys? I sure don't, but they went well together and people didn't question it.

Cryme Tyme is not a great example, but it's a modern one and illustrates my point: they were two guys who showed up under the premise that they were good friends from the "hood" in Brooklyn. As a tag team gimmick, that works. The Hart Dynasty aren't really any different in that sense, and it's a tradition that has included anyone from The Rockers to The Bodydonnas. You are completely right though, it's a dead tradition, and with THD breaking up and Caylen Croft being released, the only tag team who actually has that sort of collective gimmick is The Usos, and they certainly aren't relevant either. It's just something that appeals to me out of nostalgia, whether or not it makes sense in the current climate or not. Some guys in the past have brought something to the table, but just didn't have enough to succeed on their own. Think LOD and Demolition. Not every tag team has an HBK or Bret Hart waiting to break out, but that doesn't mean that they can't be entertaining.

Still, with the death of the tag division, so also dies the opportunity for guys to continue to develop and get over. As I said, it certainly isn't the case in every tag team, but every once in a while, there could very well be a guy capable of something greater on his own; however, an individual debut if they don't think he's 100% ready could hurt more than help. You can't seriously tell me that if HBK debuted without Jannetty that he would have won over the fans in the same way and become what he did without that initial exposure. Were they "thrown together" at some point? Of course they were, and they ended up having great chemistry that allowed them to prove to the company and to the fans that they were worth the TV time and the energy spent on cheering for them. The same goes for The Hart Foundation and the eventual success that Bret had, or even The Hollywood Blonds that sure as hell allowed "Stunning" Steve Austin to showcase himself so that Heyman and Vince both wanted to make him a fixture in their respective companies.

THD worked because Kidd and Smith got some exposure so that people know who the hell they are beyond an occasional mention from commentary as to what their background is. Sure, the crowd loves Santino and by proxy, Kozlov, and certainly cares more about them than THD, but the circumstances under which Santino got over are extremely rare, plus the fact that he's entertaining and people love underdogs. People will always cheer for the comedy act, and enthusiastically. That's why Hornswoggle still has a job.

I'm not denying that the "thrown together" thing works or is capable of producing a good story--look at The Mega Powers. Money, Inc. is one of my all time favorite tag teams. The fact is, tag team wrestling has always been one of my favorite attractions and teams like THD who show up with a common trait, good in-ring chemistry, entrance music that represents both of them and not just one of them who is more popular with the crowd, and matching ring gear is something nostalgic for me, whether that sounds stupid or not. Was I a huge mark for The Nasty Boys, The Bushwhackers or MoM? No. It's certainly not about the wrestlers themselves being any more "legit", it's about the collective gimmick of the tag team just being a fun part of the past. Breaking up another team that has that sort of characteristic is kind of depressing for an old school fan who is sad to see the division die. That's all I'm getting at.

As for the "three month feud" bit, I never assumed they would have a feud that lasts three months, believe me. It was more of a joke about the current trend of PPV feuds (prime example being Undertaker/Kane).

 

[Lying Retarded Crybaby Troll Bitch]

The Hart Dynasty made me stop caring when they made a big deal about them during Bret's return about 11 months ago.

I read a lot about Dynasties in school, & it all had 1 thing in common: DNA/blood connections. Natalya's & DH's are undeniable... But Tyson? How is this Kid(d) even in the business, let alone on TV?

I don't care about a break=up or feud, since they gave Natalya the belt she deserved anyway.