Domestic football - spam version | Page 274 | WrestleZone Forums

Domestic football - spam version

Financial Fair Play is an attempt to keep the status quo so that sugar daddies can't prop up clubs like PSG, Monaco, Chelsea and Citeh to compete at the elite level in a short amount of time. Can't share too much of the pie with anybody. But then again it also helps to prevent cases like Malaga where everything went bonkers. How is it the reason transfers are so expensive? It is the influx of new TV deals + inflation that is the real cause. I think the bubble will burst soon though since more and more viewers are fed up with the increasing costs to watch football.

This and parachute payments means that it doesn't actually make things fair at all. Case in point: Fulham spent £11m on Ross McCormack this season. How are the likes of Rotherham and Brentford supposed to compete with that?

TV deals, sponsorship, and parachute payments mean that the bigger clubs stay on top and even if a rich owner takes charge of a lower club and is more than happy to put their money into the club, they now can't without breaking financial fair play rules.
 
This and parachute payments means that it doesn't actually make things fair at all. Case in point: Fulham spent £11m on Ross McCormack this season. How are the likes of Rotherham and Brentford supposed to compete with that?

It's not Fulham's fault that they're in a better financial position. If Rotherham and Brentford want to compete, they should find a talented young manager or underrated veteran manager to help them rise through the ranks and make more money.

6 seasons of ago, Swansea were a poor, mid-table League One club. And now, they're buying players like Bony for £12 Million. And they're not the only club who have risen through a couple of divisions to make it to the Premier League. No club starts out on top.

So why can't Brentford and Rotherham do the same? Why are Premier League clubs being blamed because lower league clubs have no ambition?
 
It's not Fulham's fault that they're in a better financial position. If Rotherham and Brentford want to compete, they should find a talented young manager or underrated veteran manager to help them rise through the ranks and make more money.

So why can't Brentford and Rotherham do the same? Why are Premier League clubs being blamed because lower league clubs have no ambition?

No, it's not Fulham's fault, it's the Premier League's fault for having a system that keeps the richer clubs on top by giving them millions of pounds for being relegated in order to help them get back in. Why do the likes of Brentford and Rotherham not receive the same financial assistance?

You can't say they have no ambition, that's just not true at all, it's because Fulham have higher attendances and have had successes in the past that means investors are willing to put their money in. Which is fine, but the clubs on the lower attendances then not only have to complete with the wages that the bigger clubs in the same division can pay due to higher attendances, but then the extra cash flow that's pumped into these clubs as well. It's not because they have "no ambition", it's because they don't have the same financial clout, and it's made more difficult for them to receive it because they can't compete financially with the rest of the clubs in the division.

Getting a young manager and the backing of a benefactor can't be the case for every club. I'm an AFC Bournemouth fan, so I'm thankful that we have both, and only finished 4 points off of a play-off spot last season but even then we operated at an £10m loss. Teams that come down from the Premier League do not have this worry.
 
I think - I think - Blade's being obtuse.

Well, my first draft of that post was "Fuck Brentford and Rotherham."

No, it's not Fulham's fault, it's the Premier League's fault for having a system that keeps the richer clubs on top by giving them millions of pounds for being relegated in order to help them get back in. Why do the likes of Brentford and Rotherham not receive the same financial assistance?

You can't say they have no ambition, that's just not true at all, it's because Fulham have higher attendances and have had successes in the past that means investors are willing to put their money in. Which is fine, but the clubs on the lower attendances then not only have to complete with the wages that the bigger clubs in the same division can pay due to higher attendances, but then the extra cash flow that's pumped into these clubs as well. It's not because they have "no ambition", it's because they don't have the same financial clout, and it's made more difficult for them to receive it because they can't compete financially with the rest of the clubs in the division.

Getting a young manager and the backing of a benefactor can't be the case for every club. I'm an AFC Bournemouth fan, so I'm thankful that we have both, and only finished 4 points off of a play-off spot last season but even then we operated at an £10m loss. Teams that come down from the Premier League do not have this worry.

My point is that you don't need the financial backing. There must surely be plenty of young, hungry and innovative managers out there who are willing to work for peanuts because they just want the opportunity. Because that's how many of the great managers start out, as nobodies managing lower league teams and turning them into successes, getting promotions or even cups in some cases.

Finances aren't the be all end all of making a team successful.
 
Well, my first draft of that post was "Fuck Brentford and Rotherham."

Trust me, Brentford missing a penalty that resulted in us missing out on the L1 title and Rotherham being managed by Steve Evans means I understand this sentiment entirely. :')

My point is that you don't need the financial backing. There must surely be plenty of young, hungry and innovative managers out there who are willing to work for peanuts because they just want the opportunity. Because that's how many of the great managers start out, as nobodies managing lower league teams and turning them into successes, getting promotions or even cups in some cases.

Finances aren't the be all end all of making a team successful.

The financial backing helps massively. Saying that those with more money don't tend to be more successful in football would be ridiculous. Just because there might be young, innovative managers out there that doesn't mean that a) they are going to be appointed or b) that they will actually be successful at individual clubs which all differ. Not many clubs want to take a punt on an unproven manager.

Take my team for example, we only ended up with Eddie Howe due to being in a huge mess financially, but he turned out to be an astute tactician with the belief that team spirit is the most important factor and a possession-based philosophy. He ended up saving us from relegation despite a -17 point deduction and Jimmy Quinn's best efforts to fuck it up, taking us up the following season, and being in second in L1 before leaving to go to Burnley. That's a fantastic example of how with the right manager you don't need the funds to succeed, just as you suggest.

But we didn't go up, and we ultimately lost out to the three of the richest clubs in that division: Brighton, Southampton, and Peterborough. It wasn't until we ended up spending almost £2m in transfer fees and compensation to bring Eddie Howe back that we went up. It's incredibly difficult to move up the leagues with less money than those above you, because those teams can pay higher wages for better coaching staff, and better players. Just see Yeovil who just could not compete financially.

Some clubs are just bigger than others and have more money to spend, and that's fine. It's when they get the advantage of the FA handing them money via parachute payments etc. that I have a problem.


EDIT: Sunderland said to be closing in on signing Jack Rodwell from Man City. Thoughts?
 
The financial backing helps massively. Saying that those with more money don't tend to be more successful in football would be ridiculous. Just because there might be young, innovative managers out there that doesn't mean that a) they are going to be appointed or b) that they will actually be successful at individual clubs which all differ. Not many clubs want to take a punt on an unproven manager.

Take my team for example, we only ended up with Eddie Howe due to being in a huge mess financially, but he turned out to be an astute tactician with the belief that team spirit is the most important factor and a possession-based philosophy. He ended up saving us from relegation despite a -17 point deduction and Jimmy Quinn's best efforts to fuck it up, taking us up the following season, and being in second in L1 before leaving to go to Burnley. That's a fantastic example of how with the right manager you don't need the funds to succeed, just as you suggest.

But we didn't go up, and we ultimately lost out to the three of the richest clubs in that division: Brighton, Southampton, and Peterborough. It wasn't until we ended up spending almost £2m in transfer fees and compensation to bring Eddie Howe back that we went up. It's incredibly difficult to move up the leagues with less money than those above you, because those teams can pay higher wages for better coaching staff, and better players. Just see Yeovil who just could not compete financially.

Some clubs are just bigger than others and have more money to spend, and that's fine. It's when they get the advantage of the FA handing them money via parachute payments etc. that I have a problem.


EDIT: Sunderland said to be closing in on signing Jack Rodwell from Man City. Thoughts?

I'm not saying financial backing doesn't help. I'm saying it's not the be all end all of success in football.

This seems like a ridiculous example, but put it into perspective. Last year, Atletico Madrid spent a fraction of what Barcelona and especially Real Madrid spent. They had no business coming higher than 3rd in the league. But they won a double and came within minutes of winning the champions league.

Sometimes the right manager and a unified team is far more important than the money you spend.
 
I'm not saying financial backing doesn't help. I'm saying it's not the be all end all of success in football.

This seems like a ridiculous example, but put it into perspective. Last year, Atletico Madrid spent a fraction of what Barcelona and especially Real Madrid spent. They had no business coming higher than 3rd in the league. But they won a double and came within minutes of winning the champions league.

Sometimes the right manager and a unified team is far more important than the money you spend.

I agree completely with this, but it doesn't change that the system of keeping the big clubs on top and the smaller clubs at the bottom is wrong.

That was a fantastic achievement by Athletico Madrid and I wish they had won the Champions League as well. Of course, they still spent about £30m (granted they made about £70m!), and have spent about £80m this year in order to stay in that kind of position. So it is an important factor, it's the only reason that the likes of Chelsea and Man City have won the league.

Definitely not the be all and end all though.
 
I'm expecting a Tasty post to show us how many former PL teams are in League 1 or something.
 
Two different friends of mine went to the Shalke tournament. They don't know each other yet were only sat 5 seats from each other. Mental.
 
I'm expecting a Tasty post to show us how many former PL teams are in League 1 or something.

I'd like to see that haha. Off the top of my head Norwich and Southampton both had great runs to get from L1 to the PL, although the former have now been relegated... Southampton in particular had great funding to get there but spent very well (the likes of Schneiderlin, Lallana, and Lambert all played in L1) and have a fantastic youth system that has produced the likes of Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaw, and Chambers in recent times. But for the most part it's the bigger, more well-funded clubs that get there. And then there's QPR who scraped their way there last season despite spending a buckload.

The issue doesn't bother me enough to be massively bothered by "tasty" posts or anything though, I just saw that original post that I quoted and decided to give my two cents that escalated a bit. But football is all about opinions so the discussion are good, would've been boring if my post had just been ignored after all.
 
Two different friends of mine went to the Shalke tournament. They don't know each other yet were only sat 5 seats from each other. Mental.

That is pretty mental. The only experience I've had that comes close to that was when despite the fact that we bought tickets at a completely different time (I didn't even know he was going), I ended up in the seat right next to my younger brother in a 12,000 seater stadium. To be honest... I wasn't best pleased...
 
Both of them are completely missing the point. Relegated teams don't get parachute payments so that they can buy players, they get them because their running costs are super high and if they didn't get them, they'd go bankrupt. In the case of Fulham, they were run at a miniscule loss in the premier league, and have hardly any big earners, so they can use their parachute payments on transfers. Compare that to Norwich and Cardiff, who have made a net profit on transfers.

Meanwhile, it's incredibly naïve to think that you can get to the premier league with just a good manager. Maybe that works from League 2 to 1, maybe even to the Championship, but there's a reason Yeovil were nowhere last year while Leicester ran away with the league. Burnley are a bit of an exception, they got up because Watford and QPR flopped to differing extents, but rest assured, they will finish in 20th with about 15 points next season. Even they were in receipt of parachute payments. The last time a team with absolutely no financial clout got anywhere near the top of that division was when Colchester finished 10th about 8 years ago.
 
League 1: Bradford, Coventry, Oldham, Sheff Utd, Swindon Town

league 2: Portsmouth

Wimbledon no longer existing but MK Dons being in League 1.
 
Both of them are completely missing the point. Relegated teams don't get parachute payments so that they can buy players, they get them because their running costs are super high and if they didn't get them, they'd go bankrupt. In the case of Fulham, they were run at a miniscule loss in the premier league, and have hardly any big earners, so they can use their parachute payments on transfers. Compare that to Norwich and Cardiff, who have made a net profit on transfers.

I don't think I ever said that they get parachute payments to buy players, and I apologise if I did. Their running costs shouldn't be super high just for operating in a different league anyway, they should still have to operate at an acceptable level so they don't end up being in financial trouble should they go down. They shouldn't be rewarded for getting relegated.

League 1: Bradford, Coventry, Oldham, Sheff Utd, Swindon Town

league 2: Portsmouth

Wimbledon no longer existing but MK Dons being in League 1.

Sure, but how many of those clubs were in the PL while parachute payments were around? Portsmouth being an obvious outlier due to huge financial mishaps regarding owners...

I don't count MK Dons as Wimbledon. In fact I don't really count MK Dons as a real club, all they are is a new club that stole Wimbledon's league position.

AFC Wimbledon are a fantastic club, fan-owned and the achievement to get back into the Football League after only nine years is amazing.
 
I agree completely with this, but it doesn't change that the system of keeping the big clubs on top and the smaller clubs at the bottom is wrong.

That was a fantastic achievement by Athletico Madrid and I wish they had won the Champions League as well. Of course, they still spent about £30m (granted they made about £70m!), and have spent about £80m this year in order to stay in that kind of position. So it is an important factor, it's the only reason that the likes of Chelsea and Man City have won the league.

Definitely not the be all and end all though.

I know, there is quite a bit of unfairness. But smaller clubs should use it as motivation to beat the bigger clubs.
 

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