Pops?
Last I checked, Ziggler was a heel. So, is Ziggler doing his job as a heel? Is he able to generate a good amount of heat that also helps AJ and Big E get over as heels?
Dolph Ziggler: Has WWE Cooled On The Show-Off?
- Thread starter Jack-Hammer
- Start date
Pops?
Last I checked, Ziggler was a heel. So, is Ziggler doing his job as a heel? Is he able to generate a good amount of heat that also helps AJ and Big E get over as heels?
LoudClearVoice
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I'm confused about what they're doing with Ziggler to be honest. They built him up really strong to a wrestlemania program, IMO. Now, they've cooled off his push and made him seem almost "forgotten." This is why I'm thinking he'll cash in MITB and win the belt at Wrestlemania. WWE is trying to focus all of our attention on ADR and Jack Swagger (as well as the other WM matches) so that we're "shocked" when Ziggler walks out of there with the belt. I think this works because ADR and Swagger can still feud without the belt being involved and Ziggler finally reaches the top at the biggest show of the year after being the "forgotten man."
If he doesn't cash in at WM and win the belt, then I'm really not sure what they're doing with him at all.
If he doesn't cash in at WM and win the belt, then I'm really not sure what they're doing with him at all.
SacredMesa
Pre-Show Stalwart
If it would of been me then Ziggler would of cashed in his MiTB briefcase at TLC, go on that night to successfully defend that title against Cena in the TLC match while forming his union with AJ and Big E and given one hell of a strong push. He would of beaten Sheamus, beaten Del Rio, beaten Orton, etc etc he would of been cleaning house with AJ at his side and Big E as his muscle. He would be the center piece of smackdown and damn near running that show.
Sadly WWE doesn't know how to strike when the iron is hot and instead have allowed him to lose a ton of momentum and are looking like they will pull the whole Daniel Bryan routine, which I was fine with for Daniel Bryan, I'm not fine with it for Ziggler. Bryan didn't have muscle at his side in the form of Big E, he didn't have a manipulative little witch, while he had AJ it definatly wasn't the AJ we see today, and he didn't have the show off kind of mentality and character of Ziggler. Ziggler needs a big angle that makes him look strong, both because of his talent and the 2 people at his side, giving him the Daniel Bryan run simply doesn't work with where he is at.
You know that reminds me of another guy who was a heel. He was determined to have no real redeaming qualities, he constantly attacked people, was very fowl mouthed and was in general a douche bag. He started getting big time cheers because it made him cool and WWE responded by turning him face. You might of heard of him, guy by the name of Stone Cold Steve Austin.
Other heels that have gotten cheers...
Edge
Eddie Guarerro
Y2J
Kurt Angle
The Rock
I mean really I can go on but do I need to? Being cheered as a heel means you hit a special point. You hit a point where people are no longer watching you because of your character they are watching you because they respect what you are capable of and want to support it. Dolph is hitting that point. Hell look at CM Punk and Paul Heyman, those are the two best heels in the business today and it isn't uncommon to hear them get cheers when they first come out, or hear ECW chants, only for them to leave the crowd booing by the end of the segment. This isn't the 70s-80s-90s where you can sell people how you want to sell them, the average fan knows these guys are playing a character and will support whoever they want, be they heel or face.
Sadly WWE doesn't know how to strike when the iron is hot and instead have allowed him to lose a ton of momentum and are looking like they will pull the whole Daniel Bryan routine, which I was fine with for Daniel Bryan, I'm not fine with it for Ziggler. Bryan didn't have muscle at his side in the form of Big E, he didn't have a manipulative little witch, while he had AJ it definatly wasn't the AJ we see today, and he didn't have the show off kind of mentality and character of Ziggler. Ziggler needs a big angle that makes him look strong, both because of his talent and the 2 people at his side, giving him the Daniel Bryan run simply doesn't work with where he is at.
You know that reminds me of another guy who was a heel. He was determined to have no real redeaming qualities, he constantly attacked people, was very fowl mouthed and was in general a douche bag. He started getting big time cheers because it made him cool and WWE responded by turning him face. You might of heard of him, guy by the name of Stone Cold Steve Austin.
Other heels that have gotten cheers...
Edge
Eddie Guarerro
Y2J
Kurt Angle
The Rock
I mean really I can go on but do I need to? Being cheered as a heel means you hit a special point. You hit a point where people are no longer watching you because of your character they are watching you because they respect what you are capable of and want to support it. Dolph is hitting that point. Hell look at CM Punk and Paul Heyman, those are the two best heels in the business today and it isn't uncommon to hear them get cheers when they first come out, or hear ECW chants, only for them to leave the crowd booing by the end of the segment. This isn't the 70s-80s-90s where you can sell people how you want to sell them, the average fan knows these guys are playing a character and will support whoever they want, be they heel or face.
I don't think that the little "stable" Ziggler has right now is doing anything for him OR AJ. Dolph's character isn't a tough guy by any means, he's basically a jobber to the stars and Big E fighting his battles doesn't help, either.
People used to care about AJ too. Now all she does is stand around with her shit new hairstyle.
It's nice that the WWE universe is being introduced to Big E, but I don't know if he's getting over.
If I may digress, it seems to me that the formula for getting a push is to sell poorly or to have catchphrases. I almost feel as if Ziggler is being punished for being good between the ropes.
If you like Ziggler, let's hope he gets pushed at WM.
People used to care about AJ too. Now all she does is stand around with her shit new hairstyle.
It's nice that the WWE universe is being introduced to Big E, but I don't know if he's getting over.
If I may digress, it seems to me that the formula for getting a push is to sell poorly or to have catchphrases. I almost feel as if Ziggler is being punished for being good between the ropes.
If you like Ziggler, let's hope he gets pushed at WM.
The_Reptile_
Pre-Show Stalwart
I fucking hope so. Dolph is crap. Shit. Garbage. Pure unadulterrated bullshit to the nth degree.
When he got the briefcase I'll admit I was a bit excited, I was a fan but that was when he could still put on a coherent match instead of just flopping all over the goddam place as if that actually constituted selling. Now he either just plainly does not give or shit or has no idea what makes a good wrestler if he honestly thinks whatever the fuck he does out in that ring qualifies as wrestling. His character is bland to the point of being non-existent, his promo work is stilted and he doesn't even use the tried and true method of 'Cheat like a motherfucker' in his matches to get heel heat. He's boring, plain and simple, and the only reason I want him to cash in that briefcase is I want to see just how much he flops when Del Rio slaps the armbreaker on him to make him tap out.
When he got the briefcase I'll admit I was a bit excited, I was a fan but that was when he could still put on a coherent match instead of just flopping all over the goddam place as if that actually constituted selling. Now he either just plainly does not give or shit or has no idea what makes a good wrestler if he honestly thinks whatever the fuck he does out in that ring qualifies as wrestling. His character is bland to the point of being non-existent, his promo work is stilted and he doesn't even use the tried and true method of 'Cheat like a motherfucker' in his matches to get heel heat. He's boring, plain and simple, and the only reason I want him to cash in that briefcase is I want to see just how much he flops when Del Rio slaps the armbreaker on him to make him tap out.
The problem with a good technical wrestler in 2013 is that the fans WILL cheer him, whether he's being offensive or not. Take CM Punk for example; in the 'Summer of Punk' he started off as a heel and all the fans started to agree with what he was saying. He was good enough in the ring and good enough on the microphone to become a face without actually having the fully blown face turn such as an attack on a heel or something similar. What I'm saying is Ziggler could easily turn face, unintentionally if the kids and women were to get on his side!
He has tremendous talent. I think that everyone has agreed on that. The key point is when does Ziggler cash in his contract. If it is after Mania than he NEEDS a program before then. You cannot leave him of the card or give him a nothing match if he is to be a future champion.
That being said, if they do have Ziggler cash in at WM29 than this "cool off" is tactical. They wouldn't want Ziggler lauding the briefcase around making people think that he will cash in at Mania. They are doing it currently with Del Rio but that will die down and they don't want to ruin the surprise.
That being said, if they do have Ziggler cash in at WM29 than this "cool off" is tactical. They wouldn't want Ziggler lauding the briefcase around making people think that he will cash in at Mania. They are doing it currently with Del Rio but that will die down and they don't want to ruin the surprise.
I just think the guy is missing something and WWE management finally see it also. I've never been too impressed with the dude and I really don't understand why everyone jumps on a dude's nuts that f'ing John Cena has to carry. He sells moves well, but Billy Gunn is back on tv so Dolph is finally being seen for the character rip off that he is.
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
I think you are mixing up wrestling talent and athleticism. Ziggler has plenty of one but uses it too much to cover for a lack of the other.
I will say that Ziggler could be a decent heel as there is something hateable about him. He is just not the world champion that he seems destined to become in the next couple of months.
Again, I'd rather see him fail in his cash in, blame Big E and then get massacred by Langston in an entertaining way.
Sweettre15
Pre-Show Stalwart
Chances are many people have seen the comparisons between Ziggler and Billy Gunn's Mr.Ass persona which is nothing more than the hip gyrations and the use of the fame-asser really. Ziggler has more in common with Shawn Michaels in his early days of his HBK persona than he does Billy in my personal Opinion. Plus I highly doubt that Cena was "carrying" him seeing as how Ziggler can have good matches with Miz, Alberto Del Rio, Kofi Kingston, CM Punk, Kane, Edge and Chris Jericho amongst others and still be given props for HIS role in his matches. Plus Ziggler has been improving a lot as a talker too which to me is evident in his promo on Jericho losing his touch, His promo on AJ's obsessive personality, and his Royal Rumble promo about unifying the titles......which didn't happen.
What I don't see is how people are willing to pick on Ziggler and not criticize the fact that guys like Jack Swagger(whom has even gotten in trouble lately), Ryback, and Miz get pushes despite having arguably less talent than Ziggler. People just really like to shit on a guy when he gets popularity Dont they? Same happens to Punk, Daniel Bryan, some still to this day rip Shawn Michaels in a similar fashion.
Wow...comparing Dolph Ziggler's one loud pop at TLC with an internet crowd to Stone Cold Steve Austin's cheering section leading to his face turn. And maybe you're forgetting...Austin was over as a heel. He was getting booed. Ziggler gets crickets. Plus, Austin is the exception to the rule.
Okay.
He was an okay heel, not a great one.
When?
People always hate Jericho when he's heel, especially true during his 08-10 heel run.
"YOU SUCK!" Yeah man, he got cheered.
"Rocky sucks!" during his NOD and Corporation runs. Plus, he was reviled during his Hollywood Rock gimmick.
The rest of your post is pointless. Jericho has always stated that he hates getting cheers as a heel. CM Punk berates the crowds when they applaud him. Why do they hate it? Because those crowds do not understand that they are the "bad guy". They get cheers, they feel like they are not doing their job.
This is something Ziggler is not interested in.
Swagger is getting a better reaction right now than Ziggler. Ryback is way over and much more interesting than Ziggler. Miz and Ziggler is a wash.
Punk gets a lot of support, Daniel Bryan has become a favorite wrestler for many of the posters (with many even saying he was Wrestler of the Year last year).
Sweettre15
Pre-Show Stalwart
Oh really now....That's why his matches will get "This is Awesome" chants, his promos and his entire performance at the Royal Rumble was being cheered as well as the Raw and Smackdown appearances shortly after that, right?(prior to what looks like a burial) Not to mention, there is NO PROOF that all those people there were just "Internet smarks" or whatever.
Your opinion but not fact or general consensus
During the Latino Heat storyline when him and Chyna were supposed to be heels but fans liked him.
And for a while they would cheer "You Suck!"(something Edge hung on him) and then start cheering once he gets in the ring since he had made it apart of his shtick during his 2003 feuds when he was face.
Even then fans would cheer him and that's why sometimes he'd say "This isn't sing along with the Champ." etc
Actually his manager is getting all the heat for him and that proves my point that Swagger is LESS talented than Ziggler yet people arent shitting on him as hard as they are doing Ziggler.
Yeah because a clunky wrestler who is just starting to be able to work decently, has no charisma, hilarious facial expressions and his main shtick is pretty much him being a monster face that says "Feed Me More!" is SO interesting right?
And their are STILL anti-Punk fans that say he's overrated, his character is getting scale, try and fail at blaming him for any time ratings might be unimpressive for Raw amongst other things.
Fire Marshall Bill
Let me show ya somethin!!!
I don't know why you bother wasting your time arguing with heel marks.
Are you seriously trying to use ESPN's power rankings as an argument? That doesn't come off as just desparate, but I think even weakens your argument.
You can't really tell if they're cooling off on Ziggler because of the points people have already made clear. Often MITB holders get a lot of losses before they cash in. I don't like it, but whatever.
As for Ziggler himself. He generates a lot of discussion in the IWC simply because there's so many who think he's amazing. There are also some that think he's terrible. I'd go more with in between. His clear marks hear one decent pop and think he's fucking better than the world. The problem is bias. They seem to forget it's really just a mediocre pop that's generated almost entirely by a group of themselves. These are the same people who chant "Albert," "Goldberg," "boring," etc. They also think he's amazing in the ring. They tend to forget that heels are booked to perform more moves in matches, while faces are booked to get beat up and overcome. It's the same premise behind the bulk of Cena's hate in the ring. These are also the same people who say Ryback can't wrestle, but Mark Henry is just playing a power wrestler...
Ziggler haters tend to overexaggerate how generic he is and completely discount his wrestling ability by only calling him athletic. They also generally bash on his mic skills and say he gets crickets when he comes out (this is only true when he dyed his hair. I swear you really could hear crickets. That's why it lasted only like 3 weeks).
The truth is he's in the middle of all the bullshit above. He gets some reaction when he comes out, but not a whole lot. His matches themselves get good reactions though because he's fun to watch in the ring. He's not very technical in his moveset, but his athleticism makes matches entertaining. His mic skills are below average but he's no John Morrison. The biggest problem is his voice. (He's no Bobby Lashley though
) He sounds like he's in the middle of puberty. If he talks slowly and methodically he's alright, but when he screams it's like someone grabbed his nuts. Plus his dialogue is generally corny, but part of that is on the writing team.The best thing he has going for him is his ability to make a match fun. Too many people around here compare him to Shawn Michaels, which is hilarious, but they are comparable in one way. If you're good at making others look good (which most agree on both), you can stay relevant even if it means jobbing to the stars. SM is widely regarded as one of the greatest ever, but he only won the title twice.
Sweettre15
Pre-Show Stalwart
No just that there is a decent reason to invest in Ziggler
And luckily it seems like they atleast found something to do that can hopefully rebuild him.
As for Ziggler himself. He generates a lot of discussion in the IWC simply because there's so many who think he's amazing. There are also some that think he's terrible. I'd go more with in between. His clear marks hear one decent pop and think he's fucking better than the world. The problem is bias. They seem to forget it's really just a mediocre pop that's generated almost entirely by a group of themselves. These are the same people who chant "Albert," "Goldberg," "boring," etc. They also think he's amazing in the ring. They tend to forget that heels are booked to perform more moves in matches, while faces are booked to get beat up and overcome. It's the same premise behind the bulk of Cena's hate in the ring. These are also the same people who say Ryback can't wrestle, but Mark Henry is just playing a power wrestler...
Now saying he's the best thing ever is a bit of hyperbole for any performer a lot of the times, however We can definitely hear that he can get good reactions from the crowd at PPV events like TLC and Royal Rumble for example and the Raw and Smackdowns leading up to the burial he got. With that said, yes when he puts on a good match it WILL get a good reaction. As well as the usual "yeah/boo" segments when the opponents are so tired that they only have energy to punch each other. When wrestling with somebody like Cena or even Orton, he would be on the "Yeah" side of the chants. So even if he doesnt get reactions at the level of The Rock, the fact that he gets good/decent and occasional huge reactions show that if WWE builds him up and books him well enough, he can EASILY get to that point.
Ziggler haters tend to overexaggerate how generic he is and completely discount his wrestling ability by only calling him athletic. They also generally bash on his mic skills and say he gets crickets when he comes out (this is only true when he dyed his hair. I swear you really could hear crickets. That's why it lasted only like 3 weeks).
Well...I'd say when he first started yes but he seems to be gradually getting better. Check his promos on AJ and Jericho for example.
Also this: http://youtu.be/-xtZktb4fMc ....not the best but shows a lot of potential.
The biggest problem is his voice. (He's no Bobby Lashley though
Now the pitch of his voice can definitely be a problem and this is why he (from what I can remember) hasnt screamed in any of his promos in a good while.
That's moreso because of character similarities such as the arrogance Shawn had in his midcard days and having an older valet(at first) as well as the way he sells.
MasterDebator
Pre-Show Stalwart
Tangentially, I think that Ziggler's ascension has clearly been put on hold and I expect this temporary resistance to continue through Wrestlemania. My evidence? Well, for one, I think that it's no coincidence that for the second straight week, Cole seems to be stressing that Ziggler's briefcase is valid until July, leading me to believe that he will NOT be cashing in on the grand stage in NY/NJ. I also don't see a likely spot for this to happen appearing as if from no where. If you're a Ziggles mark and you're expecting to see him cash-in on an exhausted John Cena, then you may need to have a lobotomy. It is way more realistic, yet to me, unlikely, that he cashes in on the WHC. However, although the runaway train that was the Swagger/Del-Rio feud has seemed to slow down precipitously, I can't see Del Rio losing in any fashion in front of a pro-Hispanic crowd on a night when The Rock will (likely) be losing his WWE Championship (NY/NJ being, presumably, a pro-Rock crowd...duh).
No worries about Ziggles' potential for 2013. I still see him as a champion before the year is through. I had hoped to see a heel Ziggler v. a face Orton for the championship at some point, but even with RKO's inevitable heel turn on the horizon, I see the potential for some fantastic Ziggler (C) feuds: Jericho, Ryback, The Rock, Cena, Daniel Bryan, etc.
Oh, and Team Hell No v. Ziggler and Big E. sounds good to me. I dig it. Kane squaring off with Big E. should be enjoyable, A.J. is a great girlfriend/valet heel, and Ziggler v. Bryan is excitement personified.
No worries about Ziggles' potential for 2013. I still see him as a champion before the year is through. I had hoped to see a heel Ziggler v. a face Orton for the championship at some point, but even with RKO's inevitable heel turn on the horizon, I see the potential for some fantastic Ziggler (C) feuds: Jericho, Ryback, The Rock, Cena, Daniel Bryan, etc.
Oh, and Team Hell No v. Ziggler and Big E. sounds good to me. I dig it. Kane squaring off with Big E. should be enjoyable, A.J. is a great girlfriend/valet heel, and Ziggler v. Bryan is excitement personified.
MasterDebator said:
You mention a good point! I sort-of forgot that she "was almost married" to DBry. Following the WWE-formula of splitting a tag-team up, then having tem feud for a while, I doubt we'll see this as the next step for either of them, but what do you think of a feud between Bryan and Dolph over AJ?
I would enjoy a singles-feud between them. I'm not saying now, but maybe further down the line. It might do AJ some good, too, seeing as she's gotten a little irrelevant.
Fire Marshall Bill
Let me show ya somethin!!!
This could work, especially if Ziggler has the WHC during that time. However, it would have to be after ADR got his rematch. But Bryan has no problem putting people over, and I don't see him being WHC soon.
I don't know why you bother wasting your time arguing with heel marks.
Are you seriously trying to use ESPN's power rankings as an argument? That doesn't come off as just desparate, but I think even weakens your argument.
You can't really tell if they're cooling off on Ziggler because of the points people have already made clear. Often MITB holders get a lot of losses before they cash in. I don't like it, but whatever.
As for Ziggler himself. He generates a lot of discussion in the IWC simply because there's so many who think he's amazing. There are also some that think he's terrible. I'd go more with in between. His clear marks hear one decent pop and think he's fucking better than the world. The problem is bias. They seem to forget it's really just a mediocre pop that's generated almost entirely by a group of themselves. These are the same people who chant "Albert," "Goldberg," "boring," etc. They also think he's amazing in the ring. They tend to forget that heels are booked to perform more moves in matches, while faces are booked to get beat up and overcome. It's the same premise behind the bulk of Cena's hate in the ring. These are also the same people who say Ryback can't wrestle, but Mark Henry is just playing a power wrestler...
Ziggler haters tend to overexaggerate how generic he is and completely discount his wrestling ability by only calling him athletic. They also generally bash on his mic skills and say he gets crickets when he comes out (this is only true when he dyed his hair. I swear you really could hear crickets. That's why it lasted only like 3 weeks).
The truth is he's in the middle of all the bullshit above. He gets some reaction when he comes out, but not a whole lot. His matches themselves get good reactions though because he's fun to watch in the ring. He's not very technical in his moveset, but his athleticism makes matches entertaining. His mic skills are below average but he's no John Morrison. The biggest problem is his voice. (He's no Bobby Lashley though
The best thing he has going for him is his ability to make a match fun. Too many people around here compare him to Shawn Michaels, which is hilarious, but they are comparable in one way. If you're good at making others look good (which most agree on both), you can stay relevant even if it means jobbing to the stars. SM is widely regarded as one of the greatest ever, but he only won the title twice.
It isn't just the IWC the likes him. Not saying this is what you are saying, but someone was arguing that earlier. I can't stand when people try to say it is JUST the IWC that hates Cena, or JUST the IWC that likes Ziggler. The IWC is definitely as knowledgeable of a fanbase you will find when it comes to wrestling. That is why WE are on the site. If you want to discredit the fact that the majority of the fans on here think Punk is awesome, Cena is stale, and Ziggler is a modern day perfect, then WHAT are you on the site for? We aren't the only ones who think these things.
I am 26 years old. Most of my best friends don't give a damn about wrestling but I have a group of about 10 or so guys who orders pay per views and they all are pretty hardcore fans They LOVE Ziggler. There are maybe 3 of these guys who have "respect" for John Cena but none will admit to liking him. Good taste is good taste. IF you can't tell that there is something good and interesting about Ziggler, then I think you have bad taste. You can call me part of the IWC all you want but Ziggler gets a lot more reaction than you give him credit for. WWE has also given him back to back wins over pretty darn solid guys very recently.
Fire Marshall Bill
Let me show ya somethin!!!
You're too busy trying to defend the IWC and not making a point. The only point you made was that the 10 or so guys you watch PPV's with are exactly what you're trying to defend and what I was really talking about. Males, ages 16-34 apporx. The kind of guys that would never admit to liking Cena because the rest would crucify him for it. I never said anything about it being the IWC only. And I certainly didn't mention Cena or Punk in my original post. In fact, I even gave Ziggler just as much credit as I did criticize him. You saw me say one bad thing about him and immediately saw red from then on. How else do you explain not mentioning A THING about what I really said?
Ziggler is average. Plain and simple. He's fun to watch in the ring (unless he's flopping around like a dying fish), but he's pretty below average on the mic. The mic is what generally gets you over with the masses, plain and simple.
He's been booked in the same spot for over 2 years now and he still can't get as over as he should be by now. Not even with Vickie, AJ, Big E, it doesn't matter. I've said for awhile now, they need to give him the belt and let him run with it. See if he sinks or swims, because he's remained stagnant for too long now. But I guess that's just creatives fault, right?
You're too busy trying to defend the IWC and not making a point. The only point you made was that the 10 or so guys you watch PPV's with are exactly what you're trying to defend and what I was really talking about. Males, ages 16-34 apporx. The kind of guys that would never admit to liking Cena because the rest would crucify him for it. I never said anything about it being the IWC only. And I certainly didn't mention Cena or Punk in my original post. In fact, I even gave Ziggler just as much credit as I did criticize him. You saw me say one bad thing about him and immediately saw red from then on. How else do you explain not mentioning A THING about what I really said?
Ziggler is average. Plain and simple. He's fun to watch in the ring (unless he's flopping around like a dying fish), but he's pretty below average on the mic. The mic is what generally gets you over with the masses, plain and simple.
He's been booked in the same spot for over 2 years now and he still can't get as over as he should be by now. Not even with Vickie, AJ, Big E, it doesn't matter. I've said for awhile now, they need to give him the belt and let him run with it. See if he sinks or swims, because he's remained stagnant for too long now. But I guess that's just creatives fault, right?
Hit the nail on the head right there. Ziggler can sell, and he's good for a cool spot most of the time, but otherwise he's really no more than a career midcarder in terms of skill. Reasons as to why he fell off a bit though?
1. He should be much more over. It took him way too long to get rid of Vickie, and even then he then latched onto AJ, so we'll never know how much heat he can get on his own.
2. He wasn't going to go over Cena. Sure, he won the ladder match, but he did not get one definitive win over Cena, and considering he was the start to Cena's rise in 2013, he wasn't going to get one. That calmed his steam down quite a bit, and considering they gave Swagger the WHC story rather than a predetermined WM cash in, he was bound to calm down a bit.
3. Booker T made a comment that I found odd to make in kayfabe even for a face, but at Elimination Chamber he said "I found an opponent who can do everything you can do, but better." when referencing Kofi Kingston. When I thought about it, it was kinda true, and does not stop at Kofi. Kofi outdoes him in the ring and can sell just as goofy, a whole load of other heels like Barret and Henry outdo him on the mic, etc. My point is, there's nothing about him standing out when you think about it other than his look (proof: when he dyed his hair and looked like a weird Evan Bourne/Ted Dibiase/Randy Orton hybrid he fell completely off the radar).
Sweettre15
Pre-Show Stalwart
And I won't necessarily say One is better than the other regarding the other but BOTH of those guys deserve a lot better than what they were getting at the beginning of 2013 in Ziggler's case and the Bullshit treatment Kofi has been getting since he lost the title.
Regarding Ziggler, he can cut some pretty good promos when he's not screaming at the top of his lungs. Some of the promos he used to cut on Zack Ryder's web show as well as WWE Downloads, the "Reason You Suck" promos he cut on AJ and Jericho show that he is steadily improving.
What irks me though is that Ziggler wasn't even given a chance to disappoint because shortly after he lost to Cena, him and his faction's screen time started diminishing more and more until they decided to put Ziggler and Big E into this feud with Team Hell No.
Nonetheless I definitely hope there is truth to this:
Update on Post-'Mania Plans For Ziggler Despite Dolph Ziggler being booked in a tag team match at WrestleMania, The Wrestling Observer is reporting that Ziggler, Big E. Langston and AJ Lee are expected to receive a big push following the PPV on Sunday.
Regarding Ziggler, he can cut some pretty good promos when he's not screaming at the top of his lungs. Some of the promos he used to cut on Zack Ryder's web show as well as WWE Downloads, the "Reason You Suck" promos he cut on AJ and Jericho show that he is steadily improving.
What irks me though is that Ziggler wasn't even given a chance to disappoint because shortly after he lost to Cena, him and his faction's screen time started diminishing more and more until they decided to put Ziggler and Big E into this feud with Team Hell No.
Nonetheless I definitely hope there is truth to this:
Update on Post-'Mania Plans For Ziggler Despite Dolph Ziggler being booked in a tag team match at WrestleMania, The Wrestling Observer is reporting that Ziggler, Big E. Langston and AJ Lee are expected to receive a big push following the PPV on Sunday.
Going into WrestleMania I thought that Dolph Ziggler was finally ging to get his pay off for losing to everyone in sight for the past couple of months and walk out of WrestleMania with both the Wwe Tag Team Championship and The World Heavyweight Championship.
But Dolph and Big E. lost there Tag Team Match so I thought Ok they are setting up for Dolph to cash in and win the World Heavyweight Championship and have his WrestleMania moment, But the World Title Match came and went with no sign of Dolph.
So I have a few questions
1. What do you think they have in store for Dolph Ziggler?
2. When he cashes in will he win or lose?
3. Will he make a good World Champion?
But Dolph and Big E. lost there Tag Team Match so I thought Ok they are setting up for Dolph to cash in and win the World Heavyweight Championship and have his WrestleMania moment, But the World Title Match came and went with no sign of Dolph.
So I have a few questions
1. What do you think they have in store for Dolph Ziggler?
2. When he cashes in will he win or lose?
3. Will he make a good World Champion?
boywithbluehanger
I have to poop.
I think they're just waiting for the right moment but they've really screwed with Ziggler's reputation so much that I doubt that anyone cares. Ziggler is a character who was pushed ever since 2010 or so when MVP was on his decline. He was supposed to help build the US title picture but many of the guys online started to latch onto him and needlessly express concern over his future as if he was intended to be a main eventer. This gave the writers and match-bookers an imaginative ace up their sleeve. They could randomly show spurts of Ziggler being a viable threat to guys in the major title scene and when he loses, they can excuse it by having the commentators insist that he's an "up-and-comer" when really there's no solid intention to make him a strong ME guy.
As you'll notice, fast-forward 3 years later and they're still doing the same thing with him. At the root of this issue is the fact that the online fans tend to sympathize with just about everybody who is fun to watch in the ring and isn't winning championships. So because of this, they'll never be satisfied - as there's no shortage of in-ring talent. Maybe your question shouldn't be, "What Happened to Dolph Ziggler?" but rather, "Why Did They Ever Give This Guy the Briefcase?" He doesn't look particularly comfortable on the mic in front of the live crowds. He doesn't actually do anything that the crowd connects with. He oversells moves to the point that he looks like he can't hang with the power guys. He can't get people to evoke any real emotion when they see him without someone by his side to help generate a response. But as you'll see around here, all those other aspects of a wrestler matter not to many of these people. All they care about is helping every guy who's fun to watch in the ring get pushed to stardom rather than acknowledging that they don't have all these other key factors to make it to the top.
Now to answer the questions at hand. I do believe that Ziggler will have a lackluster storyline in store for his continual championship chase. I also believe that he will win when he cashes in (only because history is on his side). And finally, I believe that the odds are highly against him being a good World Champion. Not because he's incapable of a good championship run, but instead because the last successful title reign I can think of was Mark Henry's in 2011. Punk's was drawn out, predictable, and without meaningful feuds. The Rock's run was uneventful and only for the sole purpose of ending Cena's dry spell. Del Rio's run aside from a supporting character in Zeb Colter, hasn't been that entertaining. Big Show's run was just "stock" Big Show. Sheamus' run was forced, too family-friendly, and high on cheesy jokes that left arenas around the U.S. hearing crickets.
Why should any one of us believe that Ziggler of all people, will have the next entertaining championship run? You know, aside from the fact that it's...what we want.
As you'll notice, fast-forward 3 years later and they're still doing the same thing with him. At the root of this issue is the fact that the online fans tend to sympathize with just about everybody who is fun to watch in the ring and isn't winning championships. So because of this, they'll never be satisfied - as there's no shortage of in-ring talent. Maybe your question shouldn't be, "What Happened to Dolph Ziggler?" but rather, "Why Did They Ever Give This Guy the Briefcase?" He doesn't look particularly comfortable on the mic in front of the live crowds. He doesn't actually do anything that the crowd connects with. He oversells moves to the point that he looks like he can't hang with the power guys. He can't get people to evoke any real emotion when they see him without someone by his side to help generate a response. But as you'll see around here, all those other aspects of a wrestler matter not to many of these people. All they care about is helping every guy who's fun to watch in the ring get pushed to stardom rather than acknowledging that they don't have all these other key factors to make it to the top.
Now to answer the questions at hand. I do believe that Ziggler will have a lackluster storyline in store for his continual championship chase. I also believe that he will win when he cashes in (only because history is on his side). And finally, I believe that the odds are highly against him being a good World Champion. Not because he's incapable of a good championship run, but instead because the last successful title reign I can think of was Mark Henry's in 2011. Punk's was drawn out, predictable, and without meaningful feuds. The Rock's run was uneventful and only for the sole purpose of ending Cena's dry spell. Del Rio's run aside from a supporting character in Zeb Colter, hasn't been that entertaining. Big Show's run was just "stock" Big Show. Sheamus' run was forced, too family-friendly, and high on cheesy jokes that left arenas around the U.S. hearing crickets.
Why should any one of us believe that Ziggler of all people, will have the next entertaining championship run? You know, aside from the fact that it's...what we want.
1. What do you think they have in store for Dolph Ziggler? In my opinion Ziggler will win the title in the next few weeks, possibly even tonight on Monday Night Raw. I also thought for sure he would cash in yesterday but to no avail.
2. When he cashes in will he win or lose? Yup, I think he will win. Jack Swagger will probably beat up Del Rio and Ziggy will run in to pick up the pieces.
3. Will he make a good World Champion? I want Ziggler to headline Mania just as much as the next guy, but he is going to have to make a name for himself, draw in the viewers. If this isn't possible; WWE will probably go the way of putting him against someone like Randy Orton who does pull in viewers at the PPV's.
2. When he cashes in will he win or lose? Yup, I think he will win. Jack Swagger will probably beat up Del Rio and Ziggy will run in to pick up the pieces.
3. Will he make a good World Champion? I want Ziggler to headline Mania just as much as the next guy, but he is going to have to make a name for himself, draw in the viewers. If this isn't possible; WWE will probably go the way of putting him against someone like Randy Orton who does pull in viewers at the PPV's.
