Dolph Ziggler: Has WWE Cooled On The Show-Off?

[Jack-Hammer]

In my eyes, Ziggler is one of the best on the WWE roster, especially inside the ring. His matches are frequently the best or among the best on just about any card WWE puts together. However, 2013 hasn't been a great year for Ziggler despite holding the MITB briefcase.

We're well into WrestleMania season right now, the biggest time of the WWE year, and Dolph Ziggler has absolutely no momentum to speak of right now. As I said, he's the MITB briefcase holder but he's consistently losing every match he's put in. Even though his matches are still entertaining to watch, I can't help but feel that WWE has cooled on the idea of Ziggler being World Heavyweight Champion anytime soon.

If Ziggler was to cash in MITB now or even at WrestleMania, then it wouldn't mean much to me personally. As I said, Ziggler has no momentum right now and is probably the biggest star in WWE right now to have the weakest build for WrestleMania. That's not to say that they wouldn't get back on track with Ziggler immediately afterward, I think that it would severely diminish what should be a memorable WrestleMania moment.

After WrestleMania, the next three scheduled ppvs are Extreme Rules, Payback and Money in the Bank. After MITB, Ziggler's MITB contract will be null & void. So WWE has time to build Ziggler back up in the post WrestleMania season to be a top contender.

So has WWE cooled on Ziggler or have they simply put him on the backburner until sometime after WrestleMania?

 

[Wrestling101]

I don't think they have cooled on him.....for some reason, they have liked to de-book a few of the MITB winners right before they cash in. I agree, I like a push and some momentum leading up to the cash in, but after the success they had with Bryan, I'll reserve judgement until it happens. I just hope Ziggler is given the ball and allowed to run with it and they don't try to leash him up.

As for what I personally would have liked, a few months ago, I would have started pushing Dolph and let him cash in at WM in a pre-determined match, not the sneaky-heel way. I think his character calls for that situation, not being a 'coward' and winning when the face champ is already beaten down. But whatever....I just hope he does well when he finally is counted on with the belt and is given some interesting storylines and feuds.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Going by WWE logic for all MITB winners if he's starting to cool off it means they will be pulling the trigger very soon. I don't think he's really cooled off but I think they are spending their time building the big matches of Wrestlemania. I have a feeling Ziggler will be winning the title right after Del Rio is done with Swagger, whether that means Ziggler wins his match right after Del Rio and Swaggers match or within a few of WM29 is the real question in my eyes.

I think they are purposely putting Ziggler on the back burner in hopes people forget about him before he cashes in to make it more "surprising".

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

I see Ziggler cashing in on Del Rio at Wrestlemania after he defends against Swagger. It kills two birds with one stone; A) Dolph finally cashes the bent up metal he's carrying around and B) Dolph has a Wrestlemania moment.

That's the scenario that makes the most sense to me. They could easily have Swagger attack Del Rio post match and leave him laying for Ziggler to be an opportunist as he's been trying for several weeks now. Del Rio & Swagger's feud transcends the title, and would be just as warranted without it in the mix if they chose to continue it post-Mania.

 

[Kermit]

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about it. They did the same thing with Bryan and he turned out just fine. The problem is that I think they want to play out the ADR and Swagger feud a little longer than initially planned, but they don't want to shake anything up with Ziggler. Honestly, and it could just be me, but I think the best way to go about it is to have Ziggler turn face and cash-in on Swagger at WM.

Think about it. A couple months ago, there were rumors about Ziggler turning face. What if Big E and AJ part ways with Ziggler and we begin to garner more sympathy for Ziggler's slump as we draw closer to mania. Then you have Swagger beat ADR at Mania to thunderous boos, only for Ziggler to come out and trump Swagger's America. That is what I would do at least.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I don't think they have cooled on him.....for some reason, they have liked to de-book a few of the MITB winners right before they cash in.

That occurred to me, too. For over a year, I've been positive that management sees Dolph as the future of WWE. Why, I don't know, but the company has to decide whom they're going to get behind in order to create the stars of tomorrow and push them to the hilt.....to put them on our TV screens as much as possible and force us to get behind them.

Guys like Dolph and Cody Rhodes were the main beneficiaries of this method of operation and I had the definite feeling that Vince McMahon was using the philosophy: "The fans don't tell us who the stars will be.....we'll tell them" and then set out to fulfill their own prophecies.

I won't say they've given up on Cody, but he plainly has been dropped from the fast track. Certainly, he's still around, but the multiple programs they've thrown at him have fallen by the wayside and he doesn't get the promos he used to.

I would think Dolph has been suffering the same fall from grace, but for two factors: (1) He still appears on almost every Raw and Smackdown, and (2) That damn MITB briefcase.

Hasn't everyone who has held the carrying case won the title, except for John Cena? (of all people) If so, history dictates Dolph will take the belt, too. If he does, it could be the that future has arrived for him.....and he'll be a main eventer from here on in. It could be the losing streak he's been compiling is just a prelude to a run at the absolute top of the card for years to come.

On the other hand, if the company has soured on Dolph as a main event performer (as losing to The Miz on Monday might portend), the MITB thing might be meaningless. He might even cash in and win the title, but his reign would be a short one and he would drop back down to the mid-card, where I believe he really belongs.

This decision has been a long time coming. He's held the briefcase for a very long time now and I think the company has to make the call, one way or the other.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Yeah, for some reason they do this to guys just before they cash in. It's needless but WWE are seemingly a fan of it. Maybe they think it'll make the contract owner more greatful when they win. Regardless, it is conterproductive.

Personally I hope WWE has cooled on Dolph Ziggler. People seem to think he's the reincarnation of Curt Henning (who himself was grossly overrated). All I see from Ziggler is overselling and good but unspectacular matches. And does wrestling really need a world champion called "Dolph Ziggler"?

 

[TheBottomLine]

I was only thinking about this earlier, I honestly think Ziggler would be a good champion and a breath of fresh air, I do think he should be turned face if given the championship, I seen an interview with him recently, completely out of character and he admitted "It would be really cool to cash in at WM, who knows, we will wait and see.." honestly, that makes me believe he's gonna cash in, I like the idea of Swagger beating ADR, only for Ziggler to come out and beat Swagger straight afterwards.

The two guys have history together, and if Ziggles kept Big E. and AJ around and presuming Zeb Coulter is still with Swagger that would also be an interesting angle. If Ziggler were to be turned face, and the creative team thought up a good idea for him and Swagger to have a big feud then I don't see why it wouldn't work out. I just hope he stays on top with or without the belt.

 

[Барбоса]

First off, I do not see Ziggler as being anywhere near one of the best wrestlers currently on the roster. I would go as far to say that he would be lucky to break my current WWE top 25. Very lucky. And that is before I start adding in talent from NXT, who have yet to debut on the main roster.

Just did a quick add up and even when not counting NXT or non-in ring talent like Heyman, Ziggler does not crack my current top 25 - he is in a similar position to the likes of Sin Cara, Zack Ryder and 3MB and should be treated in a similar manner - a jobber.

Having said that, it would not surprise me at all to see Ziggler leave Wrestlemania with the WHC, completely against form and build (and ability) just for the shock value.

Personally, I would rather see Big E turn on him and pulverise the absolute shit out of Dolph. That way his over-selling of virtually everything might actually make some sense.

 

[DX Mols]

I think we'll get Ziggler/Jericho @ 'Mania and the long awaited Dolph cash-in on whoever wins the Swagger/ADR match.

I mean it's got to happen @ 'Mania right? He's had the case for 8 months now.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Yeah, for some reason they do this to guys just before they cash in. ..... Maybe they think it'll make the contract owner more greatful when they win.

Agreed, and I think these deals might even be offered as incentives to the top performers. For instance, Randy Orton never used to lose cleanly to anyone on non-PPV events. In the past year, he has......yet it always seems to be followed by a win over another featured performer.

I was shocked a few months ago when Randy lost cleanly to Wade Barrett on Smackdown. Yet, three days later on Raw, he went over Barrett cleanly and has done it again several times since, including on Main Event last night.

Could it be management went to Randy with a deal? Lose now and we'll have you beat him the next four times? Or something like that? Might Orton have the creative control that necessitates back room maneuvers like that?

Could C.M. Punk's lengthy world title reign have been predicated on an agreement with him? They give him the world for 1 1/2 years in exchange for his losing three high profile matches in a row in 2013? (and maybe a fourth at WM29.....to Undertaker)? Is it more than "Vince McMahon and Creative say & you do?".....or do top performers like Orton and Punk have to sign on to make it happen?

Now, it's a reach to put Dolph Ziggler in the exalted position of these other guys, but this losing streak of Dolph's seems so extreme that I wonder if he hasn't been promised the moon & stars in the near future in exchange for taking a few high profile falls now.

It's either that or the company has decided Dolph isn't the superstar they thought he would be, and he's losing because he's fighting over his weight (literally and figuratively).

Time will tell.

 

[sdelfin]

They haven't cooled on him, or he wouldn't be getting the TV time he gets. It's that the WWE booking philosophy is completely broken and they think wins and losses don't matter at all, but they do. They wonder why fans don't buy certain guys as champions and why new guys can't truly get over.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

They're not cooling off on Ziggler at all. They're establishing him as a guy that can lose and not only stay over, but stay at the top of the card.

Back in the territory days, this is what they would do with a guy who was about to become the NWA champ. They would have him wrestle in the various territories and lose. This way, when he did win the belt, he could go back to those territories to face their champion, and it would be believable that the NWA champ could lose to their guy. They'd do big business this way.

Now it's obviously a different situation today, but the same basic principle is still in place, and you have to keep in mind that Triple H was a huge NWA fan, and is very influenced by those days.

They like doing this with MITB guys so that once they win, they're seen as more beatable champions, and ratings and buy rates will increase when they're defending the title, because a title change is more likely. Keeping the guys looking strong while in the process of jobbing them out also keeps them believable as the champ (and Ziggler, with his new entourage still looks as strong as before).

He'll be champ within 2 months, and probably will be a tough bugger to get the title off too.

 

[BigGreen73]

I was wondering when this thread would pop up. I like Dolph, but he has become the MIB jobber and it's just not interesting. When was the last time Dolph won a match. Cena in the ladder match only because AJ turned on Cena? After that?

The WWE is not building a believable character in Dolph. He can't beat Cena, Sheamus, Del Rio, Kane etc and he even lost to the MIZ this past Monday. The MIZ? Really? Even with Big-E and Crazy in his corner he can't get the job done.


Even if he cashes in, he just won't be believable as a champion to the WWE fans. All of a sudden, he'll start winning? BS!

Dolph needs to break away from Big-E and Crazy. AJ has lost all her momentum IMO anyway. He could say this just isn't working out and wants to part ways. AJ sicks Big-E on him starting a mini feud until he cashes in. A couple of wins over Big-E could start his ball rolling to the title. Isn't it time for AJ to get a new boyfriend anyway?

 

[rerun406]

^ last time Dolph won a match was over Kofi at Elimination Chamber, and he hasn't won since

according to profightdb.com Ziggler's record in live televised matches in 2013 is 5-13 which is pretty dreadful.

I see the other side of the argument that you make the MITB holder lose, to make him appear beatable, but Ziggler's lost his last 4-5 matches for hecks sake

losing too much, and creative team runs the risk of making the guy look like a jobber

as for the Cena feud, yeah Ziggler did get the big win at the TLC PPV, but since then, he's 0-3 in matches vs Cena, including loses in back to back singles matches on RAW (one being a cage match)

"the WWE booking philosophy is completely broken and they think wins and losses don't matter at all, but they do."

I hope the bold doesn't ring true because having Ziggler lose week in and week out kills his momentum going into the biggest PPV of the year

sure it keeps Ziggler under profile, but all these loses are killing his momentum

**and considering Zigg has been losing so many matches, even with AJ and Big E Langston by his side .. I'd figure a split will happen in the coming months

great thread though and some posters have echoed similar ideas as me.

 

[#tamale]

I love the whole "wins and losses do matter" and pulling up all those stats. Truth is, they don't. Not one bit. If they did, guys like CM Punk, Razor Ramon, Chris Jericho, Daniel Bryan, etc., wouldn't be over. They lost/lose many times and are still over with the crowds.

People don't buy Dolph Ziggler because he is not over. Simple as that. It's not that he looks weak. What's worse is that AJ's pairing with him has ruined her crowd response.

I hope they have cooled off on him. And I just want him to cash in his MITB contract and win the damn title so he can have his crappy 1 month reign before dropping it to someone more entertaining such as Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, or Ryback.

 

[Kong]

I was just thinking this last night. They have been trying to get this guy over for what seems about 2.5years. If anything this angle will help get Big E Langston over.

And then they give him AJ? Why bother if there not going to do something creative with her. I mean, standing on the apron isnt exactly genius.

Ziggler was bound to flame out. I just hope AJ doesnt also. Poor girl was working with Cena and Punk and now shes stuck with Ziggler.

Wrestlemania time always screws up pushes lately. Hopefully AJ recovers. And Ziggler should get his little run after mania. Not like Swagger can handle the title. At least Dolph could , ill give him that.

 

[WWEvsJosh]

Ziggler is just not over. I think that's why he keeps losing. He will win the title hold it for a month or two and then he will be back in the mid card. If you were to book Y2J like this he would still get over so don't use the Its all WWE fault excuse.

 

[Jerichoholic8894]

I was starting to wonder if maybe WWE was planning on him losing the cash in, but remembered them cooling people off before the cash in, I suppose because the "hot streak" cash in is too predictable?

Either way I think Ziggler will be fine, although I wanted him to win the Rumble rather than MITB, we need him as WHC because who does SD have right now? Swagger, ADR, Big Show and Sheamus? Not sure why Ziggler wouldn't be categorized with them if not above them.

 

[Sweettre15]

Ziggler is just not over. I think that's why he keeps losing. He will win the title hold it for a month or two and then he will be back in the mid card. If you were to book Y2J like this he would still get over so don't use the Its all WWE fault excuse.

I must ask.....How in the hell was Ziggler not over?

Didn't you hear the HUGE pops he got at WWE TLC, Royal Rumble and his promo before he got in the ring that same night, his matches with Cena on Raw that he lost, the first couple matches he had with ADR this year? The guy was indeed over and had good momentum before this ridiculous job out session he's been put in. Yes, losing streaks do and can kill the perception of a wrestler in the crowds' eyes. Look at how popular John Morrison was before he went on his losing streak when his pop became almost nonexistent. Just because YOU dont like him doesnt mean you should have selective hearing when it comes to crowd reactions.

 

[LewisDuck]

I feel wwe have dropped the bomb big style on Ziggler pairing him with AJ and BigE. Zigglers character does not need the attributes they bring to the table, Ziggler has his own voice and when given the chance is not that bad. We all know his in ring work is a force to be reckoned with within the company but due to bad booking at this current time and getting lost in the wrestlemania hustle I still think the wwe can pick up a great storyline with Ziggler after the big one. BigE is not needed for the character Ziggler is right now, I can see the relevance of AJ but she is missing from the Divas division that clearly lacks pulling power, let him go alone and really prove himself as one of the next big things wwe has.

 

[The Eighties]

My theory is that the losing streak is going to lead to a face turn, I actually think he may fail when he cashes in just to bring this whole thing to a head, and it will be pointed out to him by one of the legends that he's losing all the time because he relies too much on other people, first Vickie and now AJ and Langston.

This will see Dolph split from them and go solo at last, turning face in the process, and beginning a journey back towards either the WHC or the WWE championship. Give it a nice long build and the pay-off will be big come Survivor Series.

 

[willross]

I will say this....with HHH taking more control, we have seen a lot more long term booking happening.

I think what is happening with Ziggler right now is what the plan has been since he won it. I do not think they have cooled on him, I think they are trying to simply distract the casual fan from the fact he has the briefcase.

I will not be shocked at all if he shocks everyone and either cashes in the week before Wrestlemania or the week before Extreme Rules.

I am in huge support of having him cash-in the week before Extreme Rules to basically swap the title to his match and let Del Rio and Swagger have their feud without the belt (doesnt need the belt) much like what we saw with Edge and Jericho after WM26.

 

[willross]

Ziggler is over in a different way than most others on the card like Jericho, Sheamus, Orton, Cena, and Punk.

Those guys are believable winners and get the reactions they do because they are established success stories.

Ziggler gets huge pops (from specific crowds) because we want to see him succeed not because he is established and successful.

Him losing to Cena didnt effect him. He lost but always looked like a legit threat to beat Cena, always seemed one or two big moves away but just came up short. That is fine cause just working with Cena ups your stock. What they have done since taking him away from Cena i will question and say isnt exactly wise. But we all have to remember.......

DANIEL BRYAN!!!!

 

[WWEvsJosh]

I must ask.....How in the hell was Ziggler not over?

Didn't you hear the HUGE pops he got at WWE TLC, Royal Rumble and his promo before he got in the ring that same night, his matches with Cena on Raw that he lost, the first couple matches he had with ADR this year? The guy was indeed over and had good momentum before this ridiculous job out session he's been put in. Yes, losing streaks do and can kill the perception of a wrestler in the crowds' eyes. Look at how popular John Morrison was before he went on his losing streak when his pop became almost nonexistent. Just because YOU dont like him doesnt mean you should have selective hearing when it comes to crowd reactions.

I actully dont hate him but i still dont think he is over. I know he has had a FEW pops here and there but that does not mean he is over. Next week on Raw listen to the audience for his entrance and then listen to who he is wrestling.(If its not Cena, Orton, Sheamus) Then we can talk about this more