Does WWE have blood on their hands? Are they responsible for the deaths of wrestlers?

[X]

first off, why is everyone assuming his death has to do with steroids? From my understanding Umaga was heavily addicted to painkillers. I seriously doubt this is a roid related death. on a side note, there is no clear cut evidence steroids kills. What usually kills is the combination of roids mixed with other drugs.

secondly, i am no expert but he died in his sleep , with his nose bleeding..that could be cocaine intoxiation. We should wait to see the autopsy to determine who should be to blame for this death

Oh without a doubt Umaga's death is drug related, likely from as you mentioned his painkiller addiction and possible cocaine use. The state they found him in and the series of heart attacks that followed pretty clearly indicate this was a drug-related death.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Scott Steiner said it best in a story about how Triple H ordered him to take a drug test when he was with WWE. Steiner then told Triple H that he would take the test if Triple H would take it with him. Triple H laughed and declined.

I think old Vinny Mac sums it up best in this interview with Real Sports on HBO.


[YOUTUBE]TemDMK3FcQk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[BigAdz]

Oh without a doubt Umaga's death is drug related, likely from as you mentioned his painkiller addiction and possible cocaine use. The state they found him in and the series of heart attacks that followed pretty clearly indicate this was a drug-related death.

Without a doubt? Doubt it.

Overusing painkillers wouldn't have helped of course but they're more likely to cause liver and kidney failures than heart attacks.
He easily could've been killed by something completely unrelated with similar symptoms.


I could be wrong of course but I generally don't like drawing a damning conclusion like that until I hear the facts.

 

[Super Crazy]

While it's true that extraordinary talent will shine through regardless of size in the case of the individuals you just mentioned, you cannot even pretend for a second that the WWE isn't and hasn't always been focused around tall, incredibly ripped heavyweights. Take a look at John Cena and Batista, two of the biggest faces in the company (former face in Batista's case now). Those guys are fucking GARGANTUAN. The muscled, chiseled physique has always been the prototypical look that not only the WWE, but every other wrestling promotion looks for. In an industry as superficial as pro wrestling, bigger is always better dude. That's why talentless hacks like Khali are employed---because of their size.

Those guys you mentioned right there in fact mostly prove my case. Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit absolutely destroyed their bodies with drugs TRYING to look like the huge muscled chiseled freaks, because that's what sells man. You look at Benoit and Guerrero in 1993, and then compare to their bodies in 2003, you'll see what I'm talking about. In a way I think that's what this entire thread is about man, it's about the WWE always wanting their wrestlers to be in peak physical condition (they do after all fire women for gaining weight) and those demands forcing people like your Guerreros and Benoits to take those steroids and that HGH to look bigger, and better. It's what led to the deaths of both of those individuals undoubtedly.I don't think we can blame this solely on the WWE though, as every other major wrestling promotion (with the exception of TNA and the original ECW perhaps) has always had the "bigger is better" philosophy that led to such rampant and excess drug use of all kinds in the wrestling industry for decades. Come on now man, you seriously think that if John Cena failed a drug test, the WWE would suspend him and announce it publicly? What have you been smoking man, and when can I try some?

X, man, you said exactly what I wanted to say. I was going to post this argument earlier, but was unsure how to go about doing so. Anyways though, another point I would like to add, is that to my knowledge, the WWE did not fully impliment a Wellness Policy until Guerrero had passed away I believe. Therefore, I would go as far as to say, these wrestlers dyinig due to drug related incidents, it's all happened or happening right under the nose of the WWE. And while you cannot force people into rehab, you most certainly can provide them with the tools needs to get in the right direction.

Then you look at people like Jeff Hardy for instance, a man whose a prime example what this thread is about. With all of his erratic behavior and his drug use in the past, sure it may not be steroids or HGH or anything like that, but those drugs could someday be the cause of his death. And the WWE caught him on it, and now look where he is. But that's for another time and another place.

I would most certainly blame the wrestling industry as a whole for deaths of wrestlers with drug related issues. Eddie and Benoit are indeed prime examples of this, as Benoit's steroid use lead to the death of not only himself but his wife and son, too. As X said, if you look at this guys from 1993 and 2003 and compare, you'll see a huge difference.

The wrestling industry, for some reason, has this image stuck in all of their minds that the top guys, and the best guys in the promotion, have to be this big, big guys, who are so defined yet have such big muscles, and it's ridiculous. Guys like Cm Punk, Jericho, Mysterio, and AJ Styles have all broken that glass ceiling, as they have proved in their time that you don't have to be huge to be a champion or to go far in the industry.

Even looking at Kurt Angle, the man has become noticeably smaller since joining TNA, not to say he's too skinny, or anything like that, but that's TNA for you. TNA acknowledges wrestlers based on skill and talent, and Angle realized it was okay to drop some muscle.

I really think this topic should be moved to the General Wrestling board, as this is really stems to the industry as a whole, not just the WWE itself.

 

[X]

Without a doubt? Doubt it.

Overusing painkillers wouldn't have helped of course but they're more likely to cause liver and kidney failures than heart attacks.
He easily could've been killed by something completely unrelated with similar symptoms.


I could be wrong of course but I generally don't like drawing a damning conclusion like that until I hear the facts.

Healthy men do not die at the age of 36 from consecutive heart attacks. Add in the fact that Eddie Fatu was let go from the WWE specifically because of his drug use, it's fairly obvious that this was drug related. Whether it was a specific overdose that brought on those heart attacks, or whether his heart just finally gave in after years of drug abuse, I have no doubts that drugs led tot he death of Eddie Fatu. Healthy thirty six year old men do not die of massive heart attacks without a specific reason, usually one having to do with drugs and weight.

 

[giantwooly]

Been a long time since I posted last but I have to reply to this one.

There are a ton of arguements on both sides, but I have to go with NO it is not WWE's responsibility here. So they're on the road 300 days a year. So it's easier to get that title run if you're buff. So it's a painful job that you take alot of bumps doing. So there are numerous temptations ... Drugs, Women, Booze, Painkillers, etc.

WWE cannot and will not MAKE someone give in to those temptations. As a matter of fact these people know well in advance before they sign those contracts what they are getting into. They know they don't get to see their family, they know that it's going to be hard and painful. So how in the ever living hell could WWE be responsible. There are plenty of people that have and will make it to the top because they are simply good at what they do, or because they are lucky and never touch a steroid or drug in their life. If a wrestler make a bad choice and basically tries to cheat to get ahead they it is their fault when the shit hits the fan. Not WWE's. Like posted before even if Mcmahon threatens to fire them if they don't they always have a choice. So before you jump on the it's all WWE's fault bandwagon. Just remember these people have a choice just as we all do to simply walk away.

 

[Toroc102]

I'm surprised at how many people seem to basically discount the WWE's role in all of this.

The difference between a music label and the WWE is that all the music label is looking for is good music and MAYBE a good look. You don't put yourself through physical hell, you have much more control over how much you work per year, and the label will always truthfully argue that drugs don't enhance your performance.

The way that the WWE tries to help people out is such a cop out and all related to Public Image. The Wellness Policy is such a crock, is it any coincidence that the only stars we ever hear of being tested are not Main-Event stars. Only big timers I ever heard of being tested were Orton and Hardy, in Orton's case his "punishment" was letting him work without pay, WOW. So he gets to keep his spot on the card and they don't lose any of what he brings to the show, sounds more selfserving to me. What is he suposed to learn here? The amount of money that he would have lost due to being kept completely off of television while suspended would have been more than just losing a months pay.

Just compare the amount of damage cost to the Wrestling business by drugs and steroids and their handling of it to MLB or MMA. It can ruin your career and public image in MLB, the amount of heat that Baseball takes for steroids is so much more probably because wrestling is just seen as a joke in comparison. In the MMA they test repeatedly and a positive test will cost you a YEAR, it cost one of their bigger stars in Stephan Bonner a year just recently. Even in the NBA a sport not known for long term health problems or steroid use, Rashard Lewis was suspended for ten games or an 8th of his teams schedule for using a performance enhancer, whether he was using it for that reason or not.

Why do SO MANY wrestlers think they need to take steroids in order to make it in the WWE? Basically like Vince said, if you can't cut it then get out, and according to the standards that he's set, by focusing not just on big guys but on GIANTS maybe about 3/4 of the wrestlers out there should just call it quits. I mean the only division they pay any atention to anymore is the World Title Division, they cut the lightweight title so hey might as well drop most of those guys, unless you want to get beat up and squashed most nights of your life forever, unless your that one in a million Rey Mysterio who still gets squashed more often than not, and when I say squashed I mean take a BIG beating in the ring. I'd say the average World Title holder is about 6'4 250-260 pounds. Compare that to boxing where their Heavyweight Division is pretty much nonexistant or MMA where they have to start it out at 225 and have no limit on it just to get enough skilled big guys in the division and many eventually just drop to lighter weightclasses out of neccessity.

I feel that everyone is just ignoring the role that Vince McMahon plays in this problem, including Vince himself who I have to say seems like scumbag, I mean really just on what I know about him there is so much bad word of mouth circulating about him in every source of media there is, why should it be any different in this aspect.

Maybe we shoudln't even compare this to other sports. Imagine if there was only one studio in the world where you could go to become a big time actor. But in order to make it you had to fit one certain mold of actor that the head honcho wanted you to fit, if acting was your passion then you would do what it took to fit that mold, luckily there are many big studios and many ways to make your name in the acting business. Too bad its only the WWE in the wrestling business, and they obviously have that mold you have to fit. Sure you have your Mysterio's and umm, Cm Punk's, you know what they'd call them if they decided to do a list? They'd call them the outliers. The once every 5 year type of star. And in between them you have your HHH's, Cena's, Orton's, Batista's, Roided up Guerrero/Benoit(lol at whoever tried to make a point of Benoit not being a product of the Wrestling business, he had mental issues BECAUSE of it)that fit the standard. Just because Vince decides to throw in a few outliers just to throw us off every once in a while doesn't mean he's not still the same old Vince.

 

[TNA Sucks]

No, WWE is NOT responsible for the deaths of superstars. As a matter of fact, TNA is. And apparently, you may have noticed that my name is TNA Sucks. You see, WWE actually has a wellness program and TNA doesn't. TNA doesn't have one because Dixie Carter doesn't care if her superstars are drunkards and die. She only wants money. So, WWE is not responsible for the deaths of ANY superstar. To counter this, someone might say that well, WWE has a million shows per week and it is stress for the superstars. Well then, I'd say: It was the superstar's choice to join WWE in the first place. Life in the ring is life on the road. So I hope many people agree.

 

[Toroc102]

Kind've a dumbass thing to say since, and I'm sure in the future many of them will die, but currently the ratio of former TNA stars dead to former WWE stars dead since TNA debuted(not counting those with extensive time in both)is probably about 1:50.

And to everyone that says that they knew what they were getting into when they signed, that still makes it WWE's responsibility. Of course WWE isn't responsible for people that don't work for them, if everyone decided to look out for their future well being then for their career then there would be no WWE. This is kind've like the ultimate WWE Shareholder argument.

 

[SUBMIT2GR8NESS]

You can't blame franchises for drug related problems. Sure WWE is picky on who they choose and TNA has no drug program. Now Pro wrestling may not be a sport, but it doesn't mean it ain't easy.

I see it as a quick play. Now a normal play you have time to reherse(sorry 4 spelling) Maybe a month or 2 but WWE and TNA do it week after week. More so with wwe because of thier 4 shows. Now all in that time guys could get stressed out on the road.

TNA is easy cause the only time they leave Florida is for ppv so that lessens the stress of the wrestlers.

BUT FLAT OUT IT'S NOT THIER FAULT THAT PEOPLE ARE DRUGGIES!!!!!!!!

 

[jazzua]

Kind've a dumbass thing to say since, and I'm sure in the future many of them will die, but currently the ratio of former TNA stars dead to former WWE stars dead since TNA debuted(not counting those with extensive time in both)is probably about 1:50.

And to everyone that says that they knew what they were getting into when they signed, that still makes it WWE's responsibility. Of course WWE isn't responsible for people that don't work for them, if everyone decided to look out for their future well being then for their career then there would be no WWE. This is kind've like the ultimate WWE Shareholder argument.

Well, I would be interested in what Sidious would say here. I do understand where you are coming from. But you have neglected, still, to explain why this is not the fault of the wrestler themself? This would be like saying a model has to throw up, or starve herself so she can keep the look needed. Again, the fact remains that she doesn't have to allow that industry to set those standards for her. She can work out, eat right, and if thats not enough she has the decision to make. Does she want to stay in that industry, or does she want to stay healthy. There is always another job. I just don't agree with your argument.

The "shareholder" thing doesn't really apply here, although Sidious would make it, some way or another. It's important to remember that we are talking about peoples lives. Their business. Their career. Who knows what each and every one of us would do in that situation. You work your ass off, gym everyday, ring every night for years. You take bumps and bruises, broken bones, sleepless nights, all to make money. Be honest, it isn't about entertaining people for most wrestlers these days, at least many of the new ones. It's about income. They view this career as a way to make money. So, while I can say I understand the argument that promoters have caused this due to years of booking big, huge, mammoth of men wrestlers to the top, I still can't get around the fact that it all comes down to a decision made by one person and one person only.

Seriously, we are talking about peer pressure here. We are talking about the kid in the 5th grade by the bike rack who has a pack of his moms virginia slims. We are talking about 7th or 8th grade at your friends house and a bottle of vodka open on the counter. What's the difference between these examples and what wrestlers deal with? Alot, actually. We are talking about pain, horrible pain, money, family, their future, their career, their lives. The forces are so much stronger here. But, take a guess at the one thing that is exactly the same. What, in these examples, doesn't change between the age of 4 or 5 and into someones 20s, 30s, or 40s? It is their decisions to smoke the cigarette. It is their decision to take a shot. It is their decision to pop a pill, take steroids. It is their decision to quit, go home, see their wife and kids, get out the paper, and find another fucking job. I don't want anyone dieing for my entertainment. Except Paris Hilton, maybe her. Maybe.

 

[MarkusThorson]

Both sides are responsible......way to many people are dieing so something need sto be done

Wrestlers have no union/governing body to police them.Every other sports/entertainment company does.They either have unions or athletic commisions maybe its time wrestling hase some sort of body to do the same that isnt affiliated with a company.
WWE/TNA etc arent forcing the drugs down guys throats but they are not discouraging it either.WWE likes the big giants so some guys will take the risk of drugs to jack up 40lbs or more to be the giant freaks Vince likes.The sked is also grueling working that much will wear on a body and since wrestlers get paid way less and may lose there spot if the are home injured they pop some pain pills.Some choose to pop pills some dont.

Here is a hipothetical situation for you all

You work at a warehouse making $20 hr plus a production bonus of $1 per piece shipped.....you hurt your back you can barely move but if you go home to heal you only get $12 with no bonus plus when you come back there is a good chance you wont have the $20hr job maybe a $15hr job......so do you pop some pain pills to stay at the $20hr job some guys will some guys wont

The point is people should not be put in situations to make choices like that if the company can do things to descurage those choices

Wrestlings employement standars and regulations are brutal something needs to be done,these guys are dieing at way to high of a rate....You watch any payper views from around 99 and see how many of the wrestlers are dead....its just sad

 

[Depakote]

This topic always seems to come up when a wrestler dies from anything but old age. To pin the blame/responsibility on anything but the individual is a short cut to thinking. I can understand why one would chose to see wrestlers as victims instead of the flawed human beings they are because these guys are your heroes. There have been plenty of people who made it big in this business without taking steroids to give themselves the "look". I hope the lot of you realize that its very easy to get extremely ripped like John Cena or Bobby Lashley -without- steroids. Stop acting like pro wrestlers are the biggest athletes in the world. Professional body builders win in that department and they have to participate in much more intense "wellness" programs. All it takes to get that big is real hard work and dedication. Having a trainer doesnt hurt either. But that look isnt the only thing that gets a guy his spot in the business. Its one of the factors, but its not the only factor. There's also character. Character will get your further than tons of muscles. Just ask the Undertaker about that. He was never ripped. Just ask HBK how far hard work and dedication will get you. He was never a big guy. Anyone who had to rely on steroids just to make it in this business obviously didnt have the talent or character. There have been guys who had the talent but still ended up taking steroids and pills. They got addicted to the shit from when they were prescribed drugs when they were injured. But there have been plenty of other stars that got injured, were prescribed pain meds and steroids while recovering, and they never got addicted. They have something called strength of character. It all comes down to personal choice and free will. Its not a company's fault or responsibility. Its employees are not mindless drones with no free will. Stop acting like wrestlers dont have a choice, because some of the best, most successful wrestlers in the history of this business had a choice and they chose -not- to do steroids. If you want to blame somebody, blame the guys that end up dead from their poor choices in life.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Its the personal decisions of the individuals in question, has nothing to do with the company. I understand that the wrestling business is very physically demanding and getting these drugs are probably everywhere, but nobody is making certain wrestlers do the drugs, they have to take personal responsibility and take care of themselves, and no matter how hard the WWE, TNA or any other promotion try to rid the business of drugs, at the end of the day its all on the shoulders of the individual who chose to do those drugs. People blame companies like the WWE and TNA because its easier to point the finger than to take personal responsibility for one's actions.

 

[thachozenonebx]

I'm surprised at how many people seem to basically discount the WWE's role in all of this.

The difference between a music label and the WWE is that all the music label is looking for is good music and MAYBE a good look. You don't put yourself through physical hell, you have much more control over how much you work per year, and the label will always truthfully argue that drugs don't enhance your performance.

The way that the WWE tries to help people out is such a cop out and all related to Public Image. The Wellness Policy is such a crock, is it any coincidence that the only stars we ever hear of being tested are not Main-Event stars. Only big timers I ever heard of being tested were Orton and Hardy, in Orton's case his "punishment" was letting him work without pay, WOW. So he gets to keep his spot on the card and they don't lose any of what he brings to the show, sounds more selfserving to me. What is he suposed to learn here? The amount of money that he would have lost due to being kept completely off of television while suspended would have been more than just losing a months pay.

Just compare the amount of damage cost to the Wrestling business by drugs and steroids and their handling of it to MLB or MMA. It can ruin your career and public image in MLB, the amount of heat that Baseball takes for steroids is so much more probably because wrestling is just seen as a joke in comparison. In the MMA they test repeatedly and a positive test will cost you a YEAR, it cost one of their bigger stars in Stephan Bonner a year just recently. Even in the NBA a sport not known for long term health problems or steroid use, Rashard Lewis was suspended for ten games or an 8th of his teams schedule for using a performance enhancer, whether he was using it for that reason or not.

Why do SO MANY wrestlers think they need to take steroids in order to make it in the WWE? Basically like Vince said, if you can't cut it then get out, and according to the standards that he's set, by focusing not just on big guys but on GIANTS maybe about 3/4 of the wrestlers out there should just call it quits. I mean the only division they pay any atention to anymore is the World Title Division, they cut the lightweight title so hey might as well drop most of those guys, unless you want to get beat up and squashed most nights of your life forever, unless your that one in a million Rey Mysterio who still gets squashed more often than not, and when I say squashed I mean take a BIG beating in the ring. I'd say the average World Title holder is about 6'4 250-260 pounds. Compare that to boxing where their Heavyweight Division is pretty much nonexistant or MMA where they have to start it out at 225 and have no limit on it just to get enough skilled big guys in the division and many eventually just drop to lighter weightclasses out of neccessity.

I feel that everyone is just ignoring the role that Vince McMahon plays in this problem, including Vince himself who I have to say seems like scumbag, I mean really just on what I know about him there is so much bad word of mouth circulating about him in every source of media there is, why should it be any different in this aspect.

Maybe we shoudln't even compare this to other sports. Imagine if there was only one studio in the world where you could go to become a big time actor. But in order to make it you had to fit one certain mold of actor that the head honcho wanted you to fit, if acting was your passion then you would do what it took to fit that mold, luckily there are many big studios and many ways to make your name in the acting business. Too bad its only the WWE in the wrestling business, and they obviously have that mold you have to fit. Sure you have your Mysterio's and umm, Cm Punk's, you know what they'd call them if they decided to do a list? They'd call them the outliers. The once every 5 year type of star. And in between them you have your HHH's, Cena's, Orton's, Batista's, Roided up Guerrero/Benoit(lol at whoever tried to make a point of Benoit not being a product of the Wrestling business, he had mental issues BECAUSE of it)that fit the standard. Just because Vince decides to throw in a few outliers just to throw us off every once in a while doesn't mean he's not still the same old Vince.

only big timers are tested? EVERYONE IS TESTED! Rey Mysterio was actually suspended from a failed drug test. How soon we forget. I recognize the tests is nothing more than a PR move for the wwe but what you said is inaccurate

 

[Toroc102]

But you have neglected, still, to explain why this is not the fault of the wrestler themself? This would be like saying a model has to throw up, or starve herself so she can keep the look needed. Again, the fact remains that she doesn't have to allow that industry to set those standards for her. She can work out, eat right, and if thats not enough she has the decision to make. Does she want to stay in that industry, or does she want to stay healthy. There is always another job. I just don't agree with your argument.

The "shareholder" thing doesn't really apply here, although Sidious would make it, some way or another. It's important to remember that we are talking about peoples lives. Their business. Their career. Who knows what each and every one of us would do in that situation. You work your ass off, gym everyday, ring every night for years. You take bumps and bruises, broken bones, sleepless nights, all to make money. Be honest, it isn't about entertaining people for most wrestlers these days, at least many of the new ones. It's about income. They view this career as a way to make money. So, while I can say I understand the argument that promoters have caused this due to years of booking big, huge, mammoth of men wrestlers to the top, I still can't get around the fact that it all comes down to a decision made by one person and one person only.

Seriously, we are talking about peer pressure here. We are talking about the kid in the 5th grade by the bike rack who has a pack of his moms virginia slims. We are talking about 7th or 8th grade at your friends house and a bottle of vodka open on the counter. What's the difference between these examples and what wrestlers deal with? Alot, actually. We are talking about pain, horrible pain, money, family, their future, their career, their lives. The forces are so much stronger here. But, take a guess at the one thing that is exactly the same. What, in these examples, doesn't change between the age of 4 or 5 and into someones 20s, 30s, or 40s? It is their decisions to smoke the cigarette. It is their decision to take a shot. It is their decision to pop a pill, take steroids. It is their decision to quit, go home, see their wife and kids, get out the paper, and find another fucking job. I don't want anyone dieing for my entertainment. Except Paris Hilton, maybe her. Maybe.

I'm not saying that the wrestlers aren't to blame as well. Many of them take it way to far, they don't need to do all the other drugs that they do or lead the lives that they do. But when you realize the nature of addiction this business is an easy foray into it. Painkillers are very addictive and anyone can start taking them saying that hey I won't get addicted(and I'm just talking about normal everyday people), but when you are experiencing pain 3 to 4 days a week its much MUCH easier to become addicted to them, and much harder to stop taking them. Then once you get addicted to them its much easier to get into non-prescribed drugs since your state of mind is already altered by the painkillers. I don't doubt that the majority of drug adictions in the business stems from the initial prescription of painkillers and alcoholism.

I'm also not a big proponent of the modeling industry on the whole. Actually I think that it is one of the better comparisons to wrestling that I can think of. Bodybuilding is another business that isn't exactly clean. It has many problems with steroids, but it is a very small industry so no one really notices. And again, all bodybuilders do is bodybuild, they don't go on the road hundreds of days a year and they don't fake fight as well. In addition to basically being bodybuilders, Wrestlers beat each other up for a living.

The shareholder thing was more for the sake of argument but it does apply. To me what everyone is saying is basically, if you don't like how Vince runs this business(and right now I'm basically calling WWE this business, there is no WcW anymore it isn't anyones dream to one day wrestle in TNA, WWE is the aspiring wrestlers dream) then you should find another job. Like he shouldn't change what hes been doing. At the very least the schedule should get cut down, but the only reason that it won't is money. The more shows you run the more money you make. That is another problem with the wrestlers as well since they are usually willing to sacrifice their bodies for the money.

The Undertaker's gimmick and natural size never called for him to take steroids, he never had to show off his body and when he started out there were a lot less physical freaks running around out there, and even then we don't know for sure that he's never taken steroids, we just know that for extended periods of time there haven't been many regulations on steroids. HBK was a notable drug user in the 90's and I'm not sure about it, but I believe even he has admitted to steroid use in the past. Rey Mysterio is NOT a main-eventer, he gets squashed regularly and pointing out that he failed a drug test is not helping any arguments. Nowadays every champion is ripped to shreds. And I would never say it is easy to get ripped like John Cena. I did bodybuilding as a hobby for about 4 years straight and I never got ripped like that. Sure some guys can but it isn't exactly a common thing. Look at most athletes in other sports, they aren't ripped like WWE stars are.

Also we're not just talking about the guys that end up dead. We're talking about the numerous wrstlers out there that deal with various mental and physical ailments and haven't died yet.

When we're talking about a company like the WWE, its not like we're only talking about peer pressure. Whether its direct or indirect, it is coming from Vince McMahon turning a blind eye. Thats more like your dad just ignoring your cocaine habit. Until Vince comes out and makes normal steroid checks available to the public then he is turning a blind eye. If I knew that Cena/HHH/Orton/Batista we're submitting to regular tests, then I'd have less reason to doubt McMahon. Unfortunately the best we get is multiple testings of mid-carders, and the only main-eventer I can recall getting one is Randy Orton.

 

[toast92682]

OMG. Why are we alwayswnting to blame anyone and everyone but ourselves. I wrk in a distribution center. I ride aaround on a walkir rider 10 hours a day six days a week and I make eleven dollars a hour. Now using the thinking of some of you, I can ride right into a pole and blame the company. Am I going to do that? NO. It was my fault and I can blame no onebut myself.

I know wrestlers die and you guys always want to run out and blame someone. Have any of you ever thought that these guys have gone out there and lived their dream. Andthen they died when it was their time. The One and Only exception you will ever hear from me is Owen Hart.

My god, if a guy goes out there and does drugs, it is THEIR choice. Vince may try and nudge you, but at the end of the day, you make your own choices.

STOP blaming anyone and everyone you can. WWE is NOT responsible. TNA is not responsible. We are ALL responsible for our own choices. No and ifs or buts.

 

[Lethalfan]

No wwe is not responsible for deaths for wrestlers maybe back in the early 70s and 80s when the rumor has it they supplied the wrestlers with steriods but that is just a rumor. But nowadays they have great drug policy and also they have a center were if wrestlers that need help they can go there and get help.

 

[Toroc102]

Actually I think I'm the only one that is arguing that the WWE should take MORE responsibility.

Anyway, that was an absurd comparison, and I'm not trying to insult anyone here, I make about 11 dollars myself, but these guys make 6 figures a year. When we're talking about me and you we're talking about jobs, we can go out and get other jobs. When we talk about wrestlers we're talking about careers, people that have dedicated their lives to being wrestlers, people that have the type of responsibilities that come with having 6 figure jobs.

I didn't work for years just to do what I do, I went in put in an application, got the job a week later. Now if I do my job for 6 years get promoted, start making good money, and live the life that would come with that money, I'm not just going to quit because I don't like what the boss says one day. If I have a family that is used to living the life that I'm providing them now I'm not going to quit because I don't like the job anymore, now its about keeping my family happy. Thats why wrestlers don't quit, because circumstances change. They got into the business thinking they could handle it, they got the family that came along with that, now there just going to quit and start all over? Its not as simple as just quitting your job, its a huge change in your life.

Hell even with my job right now, I'm not just going to quit because I'm morally against something that goes on in my business, its hard to get a job out there right now, I have status there, I pay my bills with my job.

 

[Rated619]

No, the WWE is not responsible for the deaths of the wrestlers. It's all a chain reaction. WWE wants people who look like a champion. That means a wrestler would have to get stronger. If they are lazy, then drugs is the quick way, but we have some wrestlers who are legit. Also, they have the wellness policy. Now, unless the WWE just put it up to make it seem like they care about the wrestlers, that policy should just be bigger. Instead of a 30day suspension, wait until they get clean. Also, people who got fired for doing drugs should get off it because what's the use of taking steriods if you are not even in the WWE anymore?

 

[jazzua]

Actually I think I'm the only one that is arguing that the WWE should take MORE responsibility.

Anyway, that was an absurd comparison, and I'm not trying to insult anyone here, I make about 11 dollars myself, but these guys make 6 figures a year. When we're talking about me and you we're talking about jobs, we can go out and get other jobs. When we talk about wrestlers we're talking about careers, people that have dedicated their lives to being wrestlers, people that have the type of responsibilities that come with having 6 figure jobs.

I didn't work for years just to do what I do, I went in put in an application, got the job a week later. Now if I do my job for 6 years get promoted, start making good money, and live the life that would come with that money, I'm not just going to quit because I don't like what the boss says one day. If I have a family that is used to living the life that I'm providing them now I'm not going to quit because I don't like the job anymore, now its about keeping my family happy. Thats why wrestlers don't quit, because circumstances change. They got into the business thinking they could handle it, they got the family that came along with that, now there just going to quit and start all over? Its not as simple as just quitting your job, its a huge change in your life.

Hell even with my job right now, I'm not just going to quit because I'm morally against something that goes on in my business, its hard to get a job out there right now, I have status there, I pay my bills with my job.

I think a few can agree with you here. I definately don't think that the WWE can't do more. You make a good point, this business is different than anything else in the world. These guys put their bodies through way too much. My point, is simply that they can make the decision for themselves whether they want to start in the business. Most guys don't start in WWE. They learn long before they make it there what their bodies are going to be put through. Most probably start their drug use before even arriving. Yes, that can be attributed to what WWE gauges drawing power and superstars on. But, again, it all comes down to ones own decision. These guys most likely aren't making 6 figues when they start taking drugs. They make that decision hoping that one day they will be able to make 6 figures.

While I don't think the WWE has to take more responsibility on the deaths of wrestlers, I think they could take a much more proactive stance on testing and keeping it out of their locker room. I think it's safe to say their drug testing is prone to politism. If a guy like Cena or Hunter tested positive I seriously question whether or not they would hit them publicly. Even when Hardy was on two strikes I doubted it. His first two came, then the guy comepletely blew up and got over unlike anyone has in a while. He was selling so much merch I don't think they would have dinged him up either. Point is, they can surely take a stronger stance on helping these guys. However, I still don't fell that someone taking these drugs should be able to call foul when something goes wrong. Adults need to take responsibility for themselves. Expecting someone else to pick up their tab is childish.

As far as Shawn Michaels, I know he got hit with a positive steroid test in the mid 90s. Thats how the Ladder match at WM 10 came into play. But as far as I know he strongly denies having taken steroids at that time. I have not heard of whether he took them earlier in his career. We all know though the amounth of pain killers and other pills the guy was on in the mid to late 90's. But it's not just big guys either. Bret Hart, very small incomparison, took steroids. Crash Holly as well. And so many others. It's just a sad situation. It's easy to see both sides. They take them b/c of what the business asks of them, yet, they are grown adults who should make wise choices. Any opinion as it's argument.

 

[MikePhotoGuy]

The only wrestler whose death I would say the WWF was responsible for would be the tragic death of Owen Hart. The stunt simply was not safe, WWF likely knew this, they should have known that Owen was not comfortable with the stunt, and at the same time Owen should have really made it known or refused the stunt. So I blame WWF for Owen's death as they did not have the proper equipment to do the stunt they wanted Owen to perform.

Benoit, while WWE knew of his medical and family history I don't really think they could have really done much differently to prevent that tragedy from taking place. Dude just snapped.

A lot of hard impact sports have athletes who end up having shorter life-spans. In hockey guys like Eric Lindros got 8 concussions during the course of their careers, and football is almost as bad with guys dying of heart attacks and what have you shortly after their playing careers are over. I mean some of those football guys are 400 pounds plus. You just can't be carrying that kind of weight around and be all that healthy for too long.

Let's put it this way if I was a betting man I would be putting my money in a death pool as to who is going to die next on The Big Show and Mark Henry. Both of those guys are about a 100-150 pounds overweight, running around and taking bumps night after night and that just ain't healthy.

 

[RicSpade]

You have to associate the type of drugs they were on with what happened. Now back in the whole steroid scandal when Vince had been indicted if Benoit had killed everyone then yes Vince would be 100% responsible because that is what he wanted his wrestlers to do. Now in this day in age its more realistic for us to have a small guy like Shawn Michaels beating the Big Show because the show is more about skill and not about power.

Alot of these guys had been released for these drug abuses because they would not rehab under the WWE's dollar (if you were getting free help why wouldn't you take it?) Umaga was one of them, if TBK were to die suddenly cause he had laced Mary Jane is that WWE's fault cause he wouldn't go to rehab and rather take the fine? No...

The WWE would be at fault if they didn't take the signs of abuse and didn't step in, Eddie fought his demons, but in the end his body was still racked from what damage was done, no one around Benoit knew he was unstable, Umaga appeared healthy I mean unless the WWE pressured the talent to do these things the blame lies on the talent for not taking care of their problems, the WWE always gave the talent a chance to heal up, Edge, Hardy, HBK, Taker,Khali, Divas if they need a break the WWE gives it to them.

So with the wellness policy and stuff I have to say the WWE isn't at fault as of now...

 

[Nate21187]

Yeah so I would have to agree with the Majority here that the performer is responsible for his own action. Plus all the Guys and gals that are in the wrestling business now knew when the signed up for the gig that they would be traveling upto the said 300 days a years they could have made the choice right there, but none of them are complaining bout the paychecks they are getting so again no I dont think the company should get any blame at all I think it is all on the person themselves.

 

[HBK-aholic]

The company is not responsible in any way. If a wrestler wants to be stupid enough to take drugs, including steroids, it's their own fault when something bad happens. If I became an alcoholic, the company I worked for wouldn't be to blame and it's the same thing here. It annoys me that the WWE can get so much bad press regarding steroids when, all in all, they can't do anything more than they do. They have a wellness policy and if people continue to take drugs with their job on the line there isn't anything anyone can do.