Does John Cena even WANT to be the Champ?

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

The reason i ask this, is because i can't recall Cena being happy to win a title since he won the WWE title the first time from JBL.

I remember when he beat Big Show for the US title at WM20, and he looked over the moon. His expression was one of deep shock that he'd finally won his first singles title.

Then, the next year at WM21, he wins the WWE title from JBL, the brands longest reigning champion, and is even more estatic, jumping into the crowd and celebrating.

Now, every time i see him win the title from someone, he has this look on his face that says, 'whoopee doo, i'm the champion again'. Take another look at his TLC title win against Edge. He grabs the belt, but looks like he doesn't even want to. I saw the exact same look on his face when he beat Y2J at Survivor Series. He didn't look happy to be the champion, and then slowly walked round, hugged his dad (again, seriously does he have to do that EVERY time? Cena Sr must be getting as bored of it as the Cena haters are) and held the title above his head and didn't smile once.

Now, what does that say about the title, or the other contenders for that matter? The champ isn't happy to be the champion, perhaps because he's now got nothing to prove or achieve, and knows that he can beat anyone, and he's bored of it.

Am i reading too much into this, or has anyone else noticed that John Cena may be ridiculously passionate about being in WWE, but isn't particualrly fussed about whether or not he's the champion.

IMO, it's perfectly fine for him to feel that way, but is highly unprofessional to show it on television. He should look as though his greatest dream came true EVERY time he wins while holding the belt, and should do that 10x as much when he wins the title back.

Your thoughts?

 

[klunderbunker]

You're reading too much into it. His character is that of the fighter that never quits. He's ultra serious in his matches, so he's ultra serious when he gets the belt.

 

[Italian MVP]

His reaction after beating Edge was made on purpose as he was in Edges hometown and it wouldnt be right to be full celebrating when the crowd is rioting and chucking bottles at you lol.

 

[Rusty]

You should watch the John Cena DVD (which I found to be very interesting, by the way). He mentions that after he beat the smark darling, Edge in a TLC match, he felt like both men put their bodies equally on the line and that it's a shame it had to end that way. He basically felt bad for Edge. He was ecstatic when he won at WM21 because it was the first time he had won the big one.

Anybody would be happy being the World Champion. They might not show it, but I'm sure they love being the center of attention. Please don't turn this into another "Cena shouldn't be champion" thread. Because if it is, I will defend Cena until all smarks are converted.

There is nothing more older and more irratating than Cena bashing.

 

[Khalifa]

i think your reading to much into this. I have watched the Cena DVD and he says what rusty said. he felt bad for edge for him to not only loose is would title but to loose in his home town. Anyways I think he is very hapy to be champion i mean any one would. For example look at hardy at Armageddon, he celebrated for like 20 seconds then starting wavng to the crowd, he didn't look happy then, even know WWE built this moment up to be huge.

 

[klunderbunker]

Problem is at the end of the day, we can't know what he's thinkign. Maybe he just celebrates with less emotion. I hardly ever show emotion, yet often times I couldn't be happier.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

The Marine proved that John Cena can't do emotion without looking fake.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

You should watch the John Cena DVD (which I found to be very interesting, by the way).

Never going to happen. I didn't find Austin's or Benoit's DVDs to be THAT interesting and i'm huge fans of both, so i'm not going to watch a DVD on the life of a wrestler i can't stand to watch.

Please don't turn this into another "Cena shouldn't be champion" thread. Because if it is, I will defend Cena until all smarks are converted.

I'd never say anyone shouldn't be champion unless they won the belt from one of my faves (which, typically, Cena always does), because i think anyone could easily be the champ if given the chance and they don't do what guys like he and HHH do ie take a small whoopin' and then blast out their signature moves in quick succession and that's it.... EVERY SINGLE MATCH. Both of them seem to have a problem with selling moves imo. Just watch the WM24 Raw ME, and both of them totally don't sell a number of Orton's moves during that match. Cena gets double teamed with a Dommsday Device and when he hits the floor, with Orton on top of him, he IMMEDIATELY rolls over and lifts him up for an FU. Not only did he totally not sell that double team move, but made it look as though that L.O.D. couldn't beat John Cena on his own with their signature tag team manuevre.

But, i digress.....

And you'll never convert me from disliking the way Cena is used in WWE. I have nothing against the man, it's the character and the way WWE hype him to the moon, like he's Vince's gift to professional wrestling when, in my opinion at least, he's uber vanilla, that is the focal point of my distaste.

There is nothing more older and more irratating than Cena bashing.

Sure there is...... HHH bashing.

Anyway, he may have claimed that he didn't like the fact that he beat Edge in his home town, but the storyline that preceeded it, involving Edge wilfully screwing Cena out of the title in HIS hometown, as well as slapping his father etc would justify him (kayfabe) sticking it in Edge's face in his hometown.

Could he honestly use the same excuse for his return match against Jericho this year?

 

[justinsayne]

Anyway, he may have claimed that he didn't like the fact that he beat Edge in his home town, but the storyline that preceeded it, involving Edge wilfully screwing Cena out of the title in HIS hometown, as well as slapping his father etc would justify him (kayfabe) sticking it in Edge's face in his hometown.

Could he honestly use the same excuse for his return match against Jericho this year?

That wouldn't really make much sense with him having the whole Hustle, Loyalty, RESPECT gimmick now would it

 

[Rusty]

I'd never say anyone shouldn't be champion unless they won the belt from one of my faves (which, typically, Cena always does), because i think anyone could easily be the champ if given the chance and they don't do what guys like he and HHH do ie take a small whoopin' and then blast out their signature moves in quick succession and that's it.... EVERY SINGLE MATCH. Both of them seem to have a problem with selling moves imo. Just

Thank you for wasting my time.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

That wouldn't really make much sense with him having the whole Hustle, Loyalty, RESPECT gimmick now would it

True, but then if you want to argue that Cena has respect for even his worst enemy, why did he continually interrupt Santino two weeks ago, not letting him say a word? Is that respectful?

Oh, and Rusty, you wasted your own time the minute you started trying to argue with someone JUST because they don't like Cena. In fact, near enough every time you've responded to something i've said, it's been about Cena, even if that wasn't the main point of my post.

Get over the fact that not everyone likes Cena. Stop dishing out red reps to people just because they aren't Cena marks, and stop acting like the opinion's of Cena haters aren't valid. I don't whine, complain and red rep everyone who says the Undertaker is shit. Tell me, have you looked at the 'List the superstar and how you'd improve them thread' and red repped everyone who says Cena needs improvement?

You have a man-crush on John Cena, we get it, ok?

 

[justinsayne]

True, but then if you want to argue that Cena has respect for even his worst enemy, why did he continually interrupt Santino two weeks ago, not letting him say a word? Is that respectful?

Cause Santino is utter shit and deserves no respect what so ever, BTW are you nitpick and over analyze every fucking thing Cena does or says?

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Cause Santino is utter shit and deserves no respect what so ever, BTW are you nitpick and over analyze every fucking thing Cena does or says?

No, in this instance i'm pointing out why your argument didn't really make sense in regards what i said before. Allow me to do it again:

Is spraying graffitti on JBL's limo respectful? You claimed that Cena wouldn't celebrate defeating his bitter rival Edge for the title, after months of suffering at Edge's hands because he was about Hustle, Loyalty and Respect, and yet its ok for him to vandalise people's personal property and interrupt people when they are trying to speak, which many would consider as 'burying' in the wrestling business.

I'll also voice my reasons for why i dislike Cena when the need calls for it, regardless of what Cena marks think. Yours and everyone else's feeling about Cena are perfectly valid and you're entitled to them, just as i'm entitled to say that he sucks a wad of cock. That doesn't mean he doesn't draw, it doesn't mean he's not a work horse, it doesn't mean he isn't talented or dedicated, it simply means that i, aG3Nt_0f_cHa0s, am not a fan.

In regards this thread, it appears i over analysed something, which everyone else has calmly and politely pointed out, and yet you and Mrs Rusty Cena feel the need to keep bangin on at me with your own arguments, which don't make a great deal of sense, and in your case, i had a counter argument. The end.

Is this supposed to be the beginning of aG3Nt hating or some shit?

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Agent, Edge fought hard and earned respect....according to Czena.


But JBL pulling some shady tactics does not earn one respect.





You are now arguing simply for argument's sake.

 

[justinsayne]

Agent, Edge fought hard and earned respect....according to Czena.


But JBL pulling some shady tactics does not earn one respect.





You are now arguing simply for argument's sake.

About sums up exactly what I was thinking

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Agent, Edge fought hard and earned respect....according to Czena.


But JBL pulling some shady tactics does not earn one respect.





You are now arguing simply for argument's sake.

WHAT? Seriously, WHAT? Ok, Cena gave some blurb abut respecting Edge after TLC. Cena and JBL had a similar fued, but JBL didn't do anything anywhere near as reprehensible as some of the things that Edge did, and it wasn't for the title.

Justin's original point suggested that Cena's Hustle, Loyalty, Respect gimmick meant he'd respect anyone regardless of what they had done to him beforehand, such as Edge slapping Cena's dad, using brass knucks to beat Cena in his hometown, and engineering a TLC match (Edge's match) in Edge's hometown for their final showdown. So, anything you do to Cena doesn't matter, he'll still respect you.

Then i gave two perfectly good examples of where he didn't do that.

And then you said that he'd respect Edge for cheating and stealing, but wouldn't respect JBL for not cheating and stealing in such a ruthless a fashion as Edge? Is that what you're saying? That when JBL fought Cena, he wasn't really even trying to beat him? He just did a couple of run-ins and then in 1 on 1 matches JBL just made a half arsed attempt to beat Cena, whereas Edge went full throttle, so Cena doesn't need to respect Cena? That's you're 2 cents?

Oh, and i'd be arguing for argument's sake if someone had given some argument that totally blitzed mine, which so far no one has, yet i kept arguing. But if iyo i'm still just arguing for argument's sake, then Ricky, you're jumping on a bandwagon.

 

[Rusty]

Oh, and Rusty, you wasted your own time the minute you started trying to argue with someone JUST because they don't like Cena. In fact, near enough every time you've responded to something i've said, it's been about Cena, even if that wasn't the main point of my post.

Get over the fact that not everyone likes Cena. Stop dishing out red reps to people just because they aren't Cena marks, and stop acting like the opinion's of Cena haters aren't valid. I don't whine, complain and red rep everyone who says the Undertaker is shit. Tell me, have you looked at the 'List the superstar and how you'd improve them thread' and red repped everyone who says Cena needs improvement?

You have a man-crush on John Cena, we get it, ok?

Man, that was hilarious.

The reason why I got involved in this thread, isn't because you don't like Cena, but it's because you made a pathetic thread because you are nitpicking any little thing about John Cena. Do you see me making threads about how Edge is overrated? Do you see me making threads about how Batista's veins are too large? It's fucking nitpicking.

And I red repped you, because you red repped me last week. Fair is fair. If you take red rep that seriously, then you have serious issues. And I'm not complaining because I'm just merely proving my point. And no, that thread you mentioned doesn't really interest me, so I haven't read it.

Seriously, you made a thread saying Cena doesn't look "happy" with the belt. What the hell did you expect from a ridiculous thread such as this? If you don't Cena's character, that's your problem. Just don't go telling the world stuff that you aren't certain of. Cena could be smiling all the time off screen for all we know.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Man, that was hilarious.

not half as hilarious as your response

The reason why I got involved in this thread, isn't because you don't like Cena, but it's because you made a pathetic thread because you are nitpicking any little thing about John Cena. Do you see me making threads about how Edge is overrated? Do you see me making threads about how Batista's veins are too large? It's fucking nitpicking.

Actually i asked a question of the forum in general to see if anyone else had come to the same conclusion, which obviously they haven't. Suddenly you decide to start bitching about Cena hating..... AGAIN, and now this thread is suddenly, 'let's get every Cena mark to jump on aG3Nt for Cena bashing.' Nitpicking would be something like 'he shouldn't grab his opponent by their pant leg when delivering his fisherman suplex, he should grab behind thier knee'. THAT is nitpicking.

And I red repped you, because you red repped me last week. Fair is fair. If you take red rep that seriously, then you have serious issues. And I'm not complaining because I'm just merely proving my point. And no, that thread you mentioned doesn't really interest me, so I haven't read it.

.... because you red repped me for slagging off Cena. I then red repped you for arguing with something i said by talking about Smackdown guys when i was making a point about Raw, and then you decided to red rep me again, about John Cena. I don't honestly care about reps, but clearly, you do if you feel the need for 'rep justice'.

Seriously, you made a thread saying Cena doesn't look "happy" with the belt. What the hell did you expect from a ridiculous thread such as this? If you don't Cena's character, that's your problem. Just don't go telling the world stuff that you aren't certain of. Cena could be smiling all the time off screen for all we know.

Actually i said he didn't celebrate as one would expect the companys top face to, when he actually wins the title. Not while he's champion, but when he actually wins the title. What i expected was a few replies about how i was either reading too much into it, or that it didn't matter, OR i was hoping for at least one person to say 'you know what, he didn't seem to pleased with winning the title in his return match' and that regardless of whether the champ is face or heel, and regardless of the circumstances of their title win, they should always look very happy when they win the company's top prize. Now the last 2 occassions i've seen him win the belt, he hasn't done that and i find it puzzling. Apparently, nobody else does.

People have explained that he wasn't going to celebrate after TLC because he respected Edge, and i don't see that as a valid reason, and the same can't honestly be said for his win over Jericho this year. So why the long face when he won his return match in Nov?

Now instead of suggesting an answer to THAT part of the thread, or simply ignoring my 'pathetic thread' you've decided to AGAIN jabber on about how Cena bashing is lame, and how he's amazing etc etc and look what happened, 2 more people are now doing it.

I never told anyone anything, i asked a question. And me disliking Cena is my opinion, not my problem. You're the one with the problem with Cena haters. Instead of just ignoring them, you feel the need to berate them and admonish them, which is futile, because it only leads to discussions like this, where 2 guys keep taking digs at each other over nothing.

You do what you want, but when someone gives me a load of hassle over my opinion, or accuses me of saying things i never said, i'm going to defend myself, and that's what's brought us here to this point. And it'll continue as long as you keep up with it, basically.

 

[Rusty]

Actually i asked a question of the forum in general to see if anyone else had come to the same conclusion, which obviously they haven't. Suddenly you decide to start bitching about Cena hating..... AGAIN, and now this thread is suddenly, 'let's get every Cena mark to jump on aG3Nt for Cena bashing.' Nitpicking would be something like 'he shouldn't grab his opponent by their pant leg when delivering his fisherman suplex, he should grab behind thier knee'. THAT is nitpicking.

I never bitched about Cena bashing in this thread. I just said you were nitpicking because you can't find anything better to fault Cena. And I didn't call anyone to come and assist me by defending Cena, they just decided to post, which is the whole point of the Forum after all. If you don't like people disagreeing with you, then you shouldn't be posting on a Wrestling forum.

.... because you red repped me for slagging off Cena. I then red repped you for arguing with something i said by talking about Smackdown guys when i was making a point about Raw, and then you decided to red rep me again, about John Cena. I don't honestly care about reps, but clearly, you do if you feel the need for 'rep justice'.

Sorry, I don't keep a record of all the people I red rep and the reasons for them. And you obviously do care about rep, because you mentioned it first in this thread.

Actually i said he didn't celebrate as one would expect the companys top face to, when he actually wins the title. Not while he's champion, but when he actually wins the title. What i expected was a few replies about how i was either reading too much into it, or that it didn't matter, OR i was hoping for at least one person to say 'you know what, he didn't seem to pleased with winning the title in his return match' and that regardless of whether the champ is face or heel, and regardless of the circumstances of their title win, they should always look very happy when they win the company's top prize. Now the last 2 occassions i've seen him win the belt, he hasn't done that and i find it puzzling. Apparently, nobody else does.

You ARE reading too much into this. And you are trying to find anything to pick on Cena. Do you see me making threads about why the Undertaker's outfit is too tight? I ask you this, the Undertaker is a face yet he doesn't seem to be all smiley and happy when he wins the World Title, so how can your logic be correct? Survivor Series was meant to be an emotional night for Cena. Ever thought he was too "hurt" or too "tired" to forgot all of that and smile to the cameras? Or maybe Vince didn't want him to smile. Either way, who really gives a fuck?

People have explained that he wasn't going to celebrate after TLC because he respected Edge, and i don't see that as a valid reason, and the same can't honestly be said for his win over Jericho this year. So why the long face when he won his return match in Nov?

Because he defeated Edge at the very end of their long and personal feud. He won the title of Jericho in the first match of the feud (not counting their feud from 2005) therefore he didn't feel sorry for Jericho because they haven't had much interaction or many matches at all. And he didn't seem sad when he won at Survivor Series, he just seemed emotional in his hometown and winning his return match. He seemed emotional because he wanted to return because he loves the business. Does the WWE have to explain every little detail to you?

Now instead of suggesting an answer to THAT part of the thread, or simply ignoring my 'pathetic thread' you've decided to AGAIN jabber on about how Cena bashing is lame, and how he's amazing etc etc and look what happened, 2 more people are now doing it.

I never said he's great and amazing in this thread. I'm just proving my point. I disagree with you, so get over it instead of bitching like a little kid.

I never told anyone anything, i asked a question. And me disliking Cena is my opinion, not my problem. You're the one with the problem with Cena haters. Instead of just ignoring them, you feel the need to berate them and admonish them, which is futile, because it only leads to discussions like this, where 2 guys keep taking digs at each other over nothing.

I hate people that don't respect Cena. I don't care if they like his character of not. That's based on their opinion. And why would I ignore something that I disagree with? That's the whole purpose of Wrestlezone Forums! I'm enjoying this, by the way. Because it gives me something to do so it isn't very pointless.

You do what you want, but when someone gives me a load of hassle over my opinion, or accuses me of saying things i never said, i'm going to defend myself, and that's what's brought us here to this point. And it'll continue as long as you keep up with it, basically.

Good, defend yourself instead of flaming me like others have done before. I'd rather you stand up for yourself with facts and opinions instead of taking a personal shot at me. We can continue for as long as you want. Just remember though, not everyone may agree with your opinion.

 

[Danmen001]

Man, I can't believe Sly didn't reply to this .

Well, I agree that I found it more enjoyable for Cena to go crazy happy, but that's not really an argument as much as it is an opinion.

And what's wrong with arguing for the sake of arguing (not an attack, I'm just curious as to why people think that)?

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I never bitched about Cena bashing in this thread. I just said you were nitpicking because you can't find anything better to fault Cena.

Please don't turn this into another "Cena shouldn't be champion" thread. Because if it is, I will defend Cena until all smarks are converted.

There is nothing more older and more irratating than Cena bashing

Oh but you did Rusty, oh but you did.

Sorry, I don't keep a record of all the people I red rep and the reasons for them. And you obviously do care about rep, because you mentioned it first in this thread.

I don't either, but i do notice when i get 2 red reps from the same person concerning my opinion of a wrestler, with no explanation of justification for the rep, in the space of 7 days. That's why i mentioned it, because i don't think it's neccessary to rep someone for not liking a guy, and it's sure as hell not neccessary to do it twice in quick succession.

You ARE reading too much into this.

This isn't even in dispute anymore.

And you are trying to find anything to pick on Cena. Do you see me making threads about why the Undertaker's outfit is too tight?

The fit of 'Taker's outfit isn't quite the same as the Champion seemingly not caring about his title on TV is it? And it's not just an attack on Cena, if someone else had done the same i'd have raised the same point. Jericho for example didn't exactly smile and cry when he won the title at Unforgiven, but at least he clutched the belt to his chest and made the ref raise his hand when he won it.

I ask you this, the Undertaker is a face yet he doesn't seem to be all smiley and happy when he wins the World Title, so how can your logic be correct?

No, but he does his little, get down on one knee, raise the title to the God's thing though doesn't he? Anyway, Taker isn't a good example because he's an anti-hero. His character is supposed to be one of an undead, merciless warrior that willingly bloodies his opponents if he wants to, and if you really piss him off, he'll try to take your soul or even send you directly to Hell. Are those the actions of a face? You only consider Taker a face because he's booked to fight the heels. If he did EXACTLY the same as he does now, but wrestled the faces every week, you'd call him a heel. Much like Austin and Rock both acted like heels, but because they wrestled the heels all the time, they were faces. Austin hit people with chairs and broke the rules ALL the time, and it all it took to change him face was stun Vince McMahon and keep doing it, and all it took to change him heel again in '01 was to shake Vince's hand and keep doing that. NOTHING ELSE CHANGED. With the Rock, he started by insulting the people and ripping into faces, and then he simply started praising the fans and insulting the heels, and then back again. In terms of what they did in the ring, nothing changed at all.

Anyway....

Survivor Series was meant to be an emotional night for Cena. Ever thought he was too "hurt" or too "tired" to forgot all of that and smile to the cameras? Or maybe Vince didn't want him to smile. Either way, who really gives a fuck?

Hurt or not, you'd at least expect a smile wouldn't you think? I'm just considering the image it gives when someone wins a title and doesn't look pleased to win it. Everyone wants to bang on about the value of titles on this forum ALL THE TIME, but seem to think that the only thing that affects the value of a title is how many times it's defended by the champion, and not how the champion reacts to his victories etc. Miz and Morrisson for example were CONSTANTLY seen in public with their titles when they were WWE tag champs.

Because he defeated Edge at the very end of their long and personal feud. He won the title of Jericho in the first match of the feud (not counting their feud from 2005) therefore he didn't feel sorry for Jericho because they haven't had much interaction or many matches at all. And he didn't seem sad when he won at Survivor Series, he just seemed emotional in his hometown and winning his return match. He seemed emotional because he wanted to return because he loves the business. Does the WWE have to explain every little detail to you?

No, and i'm sure that if they did, they wouldn't give THAT as an explanation either. So Cena would feel sorry for having avenged the attack on his father as well as his own defeat and humiliation in his hometown, but wouldn't feel sympathy for a random guy who was holding the title until he came along and took it from him? That's what you're suggesting?

I never said he's great and amazing in this thread. I'm just proving my point. I disagree with you, so get over it instead of bitching like a little kid.

I have no problem accepting that people disagree with me. I thought i'd made it clear by now that my problem was with your apparent problem with accepting that some marks don't like Cena and you feel the need to convert them.

I hate people that don't respect Cena. I don't care if they like his character of not. That's based on their opinion. And why would I ignore something that I disagree with? That's the whole purpose of Wrestlezone Forums! I'm enjoying this, by the way. Because it gives me something to do so it isn't very pointless.

Because we all know you'd disagree anyway, and there's no need to mention it again, which is probably why Sly hasn't bothered to post here because he knows that we all know what his opinion of Cena is. Also, i've enjoyed this as well.

Good, defend yourself instead of flaming me like others have done before. I'd rather you stand up for yourself with facts and opinions instead of taking a personal shot at me. We can continue for as long as you want. Just remember though, not everyone may agree with your opinion.

Indeed they won't, which would make things very boring if they did.

Oh, and Danmen i enjoy arguing for argument's sake as well, i thought that was the point of a forum?

 

[justinsayne]

Justin's original point suggested that Cena's Hustle, Loyalty, Respect gimmick meant he'd respect anyone regardless of what they had done to him beforehand, such as Edge slapping Cena's dad, using brass knucks to beat Cena in his hometown, and engineering a TLC match (Edge's match) in Edge's hometown for their final showdown. So, anything you do to Cena doesn't matter, he'll still respect you.

Umm yeah, pretty sure I didn't say that at all, my post was in regards to Cena respects Edge for the effort and fight he put up in their TLC match, Edge earned Cena's respect after the match

 

[Rusty]

Oh but you did Rusty, oh but you did.

Nope, I was just pointing out that bashing Cena for the hell of it is irratating, just like you're doing with this thread. Bashing Cena for good reasons (which I have yet to find one) is understandable.

I don't either, but i do notice when i get 2 red reps from the same person concerning my opinion of a wrestler, with no explanation of justification for the rep, in the space of 7 days. That's why i mentioned it, because i don't think it's neccessary to rep someone for not liking a guy, and it's sure as hell not neccessary to do it twice in quick succession.

It's rep for God's sake. All it is, is some numbers and some coloured bars. You'll get over it.

This isn't even in dispute anymore.

Yep, because you are picking on the slightest thing about one of your least favourite superstars.

The fit of 'Taker's outfit isn't quite the same as the Champion seemingly not caring about his title on TV is it? And it's not just an attack on Cena, if someone else had done the same i'd have raised the same point. Jericho for example didn't exactly smile and cry when he won the title at Unforgiven, but at least he clutched the belt to his chest and made the ref raise his hand when he won it.

This is why I'm debating with you. Because I'm willing to bet you wouldn't have made this thread about another wrestler. If the smark darlings called Edge or Chris Jericho didn't smile at all, I can almost guarantee you wouldn't have made this thread about them. But because it's John Cena and it's so kewl to hate him, you had to make this thread, didn't you. And Jericho looked fairly happy to me when he won the belt, but keep in mind that's the first time he's held a World Title in over 7 years.

No, but he does his little, get down on one knee, raise the title to the God's thing though doesn't he? Anyway, Taker isn't a good example because he's an anti-hero. His character is supposed to be one of an undead, merciless warrior that willingly bloodies his opponents if he wants to, and if you really piss him off, he'll try to take your soul or even send you directly to Hell. Are those the actions of a face? You only consider Taker a face because he's booked to fight the heels. If he did EXACTLY the same as he does now, but wrestled the faces every week, you'd call him a heel. Much like Austin and Rock both acted like heels, but because they wrestled the heels all the time, they were faces. Austin hit people with chairs and broke the rules ALL the time, and it all it took to change him face was stun Vince McMahon and keep doing it, and all it took to change him heel again in '01 was to shake Vince's hand and keep doing that. NOTHING ELSE CHANGED. With the Rock, he started by insulting the people and ripping into faces, and then he simply started praising the fans and insulting the heels, and then back again. In terms of what they did in the ring, nothing changed at all.

What i expected was a few replies about how i was either reading too much into it, or that it didn't matter, OR i was hoping for at least one person to say 'you know what, he didn't seem to pleased with winning the title in his return match' and that regardless of whether the champ is face or heel, and regardless of the circumstances of their title win, they should always look very happy when they win the company's top prize. Now the last 2 occassions i've seen him win the belt, he hasn't done that and i find it puzzling. Apparently, nobody else does.

See, I can use quotes too

Hurt or not, you'd at least expect a smile wouldn't you think? I'm just considering the image it gives when someone wins a title and doesn't look pleased to win it. Everyone wants to bang on about the value of titles on this forum ALL THE TIME, but seem to think that the only thing that affects the value of a title is how many times it's defended by the champion, and not how the champion reacts to his victories etc. Miz and Morrisson for example were CONSTANTLY seen in public with their titles when they were WWE tag champs.

Keep in mind though, this is the 4th time Cena has won a World Title. So you can't expect him to be as happy as he was at Wrestlemania 21. I could tell from his face that he was emotional and that he felt glad to be back. He might not have smiled to the cameras, but deep down I'm sure he was happy that night.

No, and i'm sure that if they did, they wouldn't give THAT as an explanation either. So Cena would feel sorry for having avenged the attack on his father as well as his own defeat and humiliation in his hometown, but wouldn't feel sympathy for a random guy who was holding the title until he came along and took it from him? That's what you're suggesting?

Cena looked sad at Unforgiven 2006 because those two had a excellent match. One that could have gone either way. That was the match of 2006 in my opinion. This was the end of their long rivalry and Cena felt bad because BOTH endured pain during the multiple high spots in that match. Hell, Edge even passed out during the match. In Cena's mind, they were both winners on the night, but only one walked out with the title and he obviously didn't think it was fair. The Jericho match was just a normal singles match surrounded around the hype of Cena's return and nothing else.

I have no problem accepting that people disagree with me. I thought i'd made it clear by now that my problem was with your apparent problem with accepting that some marks don't like Cena and you feel the need to convert them.

I try to convert smarks that don't respect Cena or think Cena is shit. It's one of my personal goals on the forum. If you don't like his character, then I couldn't care less. But when somebody says he's a shit wrestler, that really grinds my gears.

Because we all know you'd disagree anyway, and there's no need to mention it again, which is probably why Sly hasn't bothered to post here because he knows that we all know what his opinion of Cena is. Also, i've enjoyed this as well.

No, I wouldn't disagree. I just personally think that you are nitpicking on Cena's facial expressions at Survivor Series.

Indeed they won't, which would make things very boring if they did.

Which is why we are debating now

Oh, and Danmen i enjoy arguing for argument's sake as well, i thought that was the point of a forum?

No, the point of a forum is to argue with things you disagree on.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Umm yeah, pretty sure I didn't say that at all, my post was in regards to Cena respects Edge for the effort and fight he put up in their TLC match, Edge earned Cena's respect after the match

I didn't say that's what you siad, i said that's what your response s-u-g-g-e-s-t-e-d, meaning it wasn't clear what you meant and that's what came across to me. You've now cleared that up, and it still doesn't convince me. Sorry.

Nope, I was just pointing out that bashing Cena for the hell of it is irratating, just like you're doing with this thread. Bashing Cena for good reasons (which I have yet to find one) is understandable.

Which translates to whining.

It's rep for God's sake. All it is, is some numbers and some coloured bars. You'll get over it.

Ok, again you've missed the point of what i was saying, so let's just omit the whole rep thing for the rest of this argument.

Yep, because you are picking on the slightest thing about one of your least favourite superstars.

I am indeed 'picking' on something done by my least favourite superstar, but the point is, i don't consider this particular issue to be 'slight'.

This is why I'm debating with you. Because I'm willing to bet you wouldn't have made this thread about another wrestler. If the smark darlings called Edge or Chris Jericho didn't smile at all, I can almost guarantee you wouldn't have made this thread about them. But because it's John Cena and it's so kewl to hate him, you had to make this thread, didn't you. And Jericho looked fairly happy to me when he won the belt, but keep in mind that's the first time he's held a World Title in over 7 years.

Well, the thing is, neither Edge or Jericho have done this after BOTH of their last 2 title reigns, whereas Cena has. If he'd celebrated this time around in the manner i would expect from a newly crowned champ, then no this thread wouldn't have been made. However, with both of his last 2 title wins, Cena's had that expressionless look on his face. Hence the thread.

See, I can use quotes too

That, you can, it's just a shame that in this instance your quotes meant nothing together. Indeed i did say that any talent who wins the title whether heel or face should look very happy. I also said that when the Undertaker wins the title he does a variant of his usual celebration, just like HHH, just like the Rock, just like Austin. They celebrate as they usually do, holding the title. Cena, in the 2 instances i mentioned, just held the title, nothing more.

Keep in mind though, this is the 4th time Cena has won a World Title. So you can't expect him to be as happy as he was at Wrestlemania 21. I could tell from his face that he was emotional and that he felt glad to be back. He might not have smiled to the cameras, but deep down I'm sure he was happy that night.

Yeah, he probably was, but it's just my view that he should show it, regardless of how he feels, to maintain kayfabe by making the title look like the most precious object in existance.

Cena looked sad at Unforgiven 2006 because those two had a excellent match. One that could have gone either way. That was the match of 2006 in my opinion. This was the end of their long rivalry and Cena felt bad because BOTH endured pain during the multiple high spots in that match. Hell, Edge even passed out during the match. In Cena's mind, they were both winners on the night, but only one walked out with the title and he obviously didn't think it was fair. The Jericho match was just a normal singles match surrounded around the hype of Cena's return and nothing else.

So then, he had no reason to not celebrate his title win, in his return match, in his hometown then? He didn't have to smile and dance, or dedicate the win to his kids like Foley, or invite his family in the ring like Angle, he could've cried for all i care, but there was nothing. He just got out of the ring, hugged his dad, embraced each of his brothers, face never changed from the look of boredom that i saw on my television, while i was watching, which is what made me think that Cena may not want to go through another year long title reign like in '07. That perhaps he'd prefer it if someone else were the top gyu on Raw, you know, maybe he wants someone else to get a shot in the spotlight. Maybe he feels the same way as the smarks who are sick of the same 5 guys passing the World title amongst themselves and only MITB winners getting to hold it for a month or 2.........

Or maybe he just didn't think to smile.

I try to convert smarks that don't respect Cena or think Cena is shit. It's one of my personal goals on the forum. If you don't like his character, then I couldn't care less. But when somebody says he's a shit wrestler, that really grinds my gears.

Fair enough, but i never said he was a shit wrestler did i? I think his character is shit, yet you're arguing with me, despite having just said that you don't care what people think about the character. And why is it a personal goal to make people respect Cena on a forum like you do, when you also said that a forum is a place for disagreements and arguing?

No, I wouldn't disagree. I just personally think that you are nitpicking on Cena's facial expressions at Survivor Series.

You may not think it matters how champions treat the title belt on TV, but i personally do, and you forgot i'm also 'nitpicking' his expression at Unforgiven in '06.

No, the point of a forum is to argue with things you disagree on.

And you know full well that there will be someone that disagrees with you, so therefore you sign up to agree with those who agree, and argue with those who don't. 50% of the reason to join is to argue. Arguing for argument's sake.

I look forward to your response