Does Dolph Ziggler Have 'That'?

[TJWWE]

I think this sort of post has been done several times but I'm not too sure.

I have been a fan of Ziggler for a long time now and is one of the few male superstars that I am actually a fan of. I first started to notice Ziggler when he was feuding with Rey in the summer of 09.

The first official match I started to become a fan of his was his match with Rey at Night of Champions 2009. I was really into the match and wanted Ziggler to win but didn't win and then he had another fantastic match with Rey at the following PPV, Summerslam.

Since then, I love his matches with high profile superstars such as Cena, Orton, Punk and Edge.

The point that i'm making is..
Does Dolph bring that spark to his matches that make them the best match of the night.
His reports from this site has said that his matches have been one of the best of the night at houseshows..

So, my question is..

"Does Dolph deserve a main event title reign and when do you think he will win it?"

I will answer that question first.
I think Dolph DOES deserve a healthy title reign (More or so with the world title as he needs that title first before getting the WWE title championship) and he can feud with Orton and Sheamus for a good few months over on Smackdown. I think Ziggler will win a main event title any time between now and early 2013.

 

[jackson-lowe]

Dolph is a great wrestler and a bright talent for the wwe, I have always liked ziggler but it was his US title reign that really put him over to me as a player that could rule the upper mid card and possibly move into the main event frame.

Technically, he could easily slot into the world title picture as he always puts on a great match and has precision timing inside the ring. His time on the mic has been very limited so i am not sure on his speaking side of the game if he could match up to a punk/cena.

The spark that makes a match memorable and show stealing i know he possesses and im sure later this year/possibly in a few months he will have a match at a PPV (possibly summerslam) that steals the show and puts him over as a main event talent.

As for his first title reign, i think it will be from a briefcase this year. As much as i would like for his first 1+ day reign to be legitimate I can see him winning the briefcase. If not possibly around the time of TLC maybe survivor series.

 

[Jeffnumber1fan09]

If Ziggler works towards it, he could definitely have "that". He has the look and the charisma, but his storylines are holding him back right now which is a big shame. Now hes breaking from vickie and swagger, I hope that he will move up to the main event ang getting a couple more title matches eventually.

 

[Ryberg]

Great ANOTHER Does Ziggler have "that" thread. Look I will be honest I hate the guy. While' he's a great wrestler that's where it ends. He's an abomination on the mic. With Vickie Guerrero he gets no heat without Vickie Guerrero he gets no heat (or reaction with or without her). So that's a NO he doesn't have "that"! He's been upper middle card to title picture for about three years now and STILL hasn't gotten over. Jack Swagger is more over than Ziggler. At least HE carries his own heat.


Now yet again the WWE sees fit to try and re-brand him in hopes the fans off the IWC board will like him? They need to finally accept he's NEVER going to be above mid-card and personally I feel shouldn't be above a jobber. He belongs on Superstars with the other Misfit Toys. Ziggler and Cody Rhodes are the two most overrated wrestlers in the WWE.

 

[vampirek]

Great ANOTHER Does Ziggler have "that" thread. Look I will be honest I hate the guy. While' he's a great wrestler that's where it ends. He's an abomination on the mic. With Vickie Guerrero he gets no heat without Vickie Guerrero he gets no heat (or reaction with or without her). So that's a NO he doesn't have "that"! He's been upper middle card to title picture for about three years now and STILL hasn't gotten over. Jack Swagger is more over than Ziggler. At least HE carries his own heat.


Now yet again the WWE sees fit to try and re-brand him in hopes the fans off the IWC board will like him? They need to finally accept he's NEVER going to be above mid-card and personally I feel shouldn't be above a jobber. He belongs on Superstars with the other Misfit Toys. Ziggler and Cody Rhodes are the two most overrated wrestlers in the WWE.

Swagger more over than Ziggler? What in the hell have you been watching? Swagger has nothing and should be the one on Superstars.
Mic skills just aren't that important and why does Ziggler need to be by himself to get himself to the top level. Ziggler is a classic example of the need of managers in the WWE. Ziggler has it all but the mic skills, but that can easily be fixed by having managers. If wrestlers are based on mic skills, they might as well just do away with wrestlers and hire c-listed movie actors to make up the roster.

 

[Ryberg]

Swagger more over than Ziggler? What in the hell have you been watching? Swagger has nothing and should be the one on Superstars.
Mic skills just aren't that important and why does Ziggler need to be by himself to get himself to the top level. Ziggler is a classic example of the need of managers in the WWE. Ziggler has it all but the mic skills, but that can easily be fixed by having managers. If wrestlers are based on mic skills, they might as well just do away with wrestlers and hire c-listed movie actors to make up the roster.

No actually ZIGGLER is a classic example of a failed experiment that WWE still won't admit fans don't care about him. Just like ADR!

Everyone needs to stop blaming creative and Vickie. Different creative teams have tried and failed. In the end that says it's HIM not anyone else. So what he can wrestler. Lance Storm and Dean Malenko could have wrestled circles around Ziggler but like him, all moves and didn't have "IT". There's a whole history of people like that, they're called JOBBERS! It's their job to put others over. Ziggler definitely does that better than anyone in the WWE.

What wrestling have you watched? lol Ziggler gets less of a reaction then Swagger hands down. I'm not saying Swagger is AWESOME I am saying Ziggler is a failure. It's funny how even on here, IWC people STILL grasp to Drew Mcintyre and Ziggler and won't admit they are NOTHING and never will get over with fans. Drew another guy they pushed and got no heat and hardly any reaction. They FINALLY have seems to learn their lesson with him. I hope they finally do with Ziggler also so others can be pushed.

 

[ultramattman]

I don't think Ziggler is that bad on the mic. He's much better than the rest of the 'great worker, bad mic skills' lot like Kofi or Evan Bourne or Justin Gabriel. I think Dolph has shown enough improvement over the last two years that I think he can continue to get better. (As opposed to someone like Kofi, who hasn't improved at all on the mic)

I do believe Dolph has 'it', as far as being a credible main eventer who carries out feuds with top guys. I think his 'Show Off' character is perfect, finally getting Dolph right. He won't reach face-of-the-company status but that's a rarified tier.

 

[DX Mols]

I think you're crazy if you're not a Ziggler fan. He's got the most potential of any current WWE superstar not named Wade Barrett or Cody Rhodes.

Ziggler can go in the ring, he takes great bumps, and he's got the look. Mic skills can always improve over time if he gets a chance to talk every week. Look at Benoit? A phenomenal talent with subpar mic skills, but he made it to the top and I have faith Dolph will as well.

He's a homegrown WWE talent. He's a modern day Mr. Perfect/Rick Rude hybrid. This guy will be WWE Champion/World Champion before 2012 ends.

 

[Rayne]

He's got the most potential of any current WWE superstar not named Wade Barrett or Cody Rhodes.

This says everything that needs to be said about Dolph Ziggler. He's a good talent. He "sells his story in the ring", to use a cliche. He's got the classic tool kit you look for in performers; he's not an all-star on the mic, but he has talent in that area that can be improved upon.

HOWEVER- there are performers, doing what he does, and being better at it. Would you bill Dolph Ziggler ahead of a CM Punk or Daniel Bryan right now? Dolph's a hell of a talent, but there are also other guys who are a hell of a talent. He could catch a good push at the right time and make a break for himself; if he was The Right Guy In The Right Place At The Right Time, he could become a top-tier performer. I won't say that it can't happen for Dolph Ziggler.

I will say that there are other people I'd give a run to before Dolph Ziggler, however. He's had a couple chances and has thus far failed to really catch on. Cody Rhodes is tearing up the mid-card currently; I'd be shocked if he didn't get his toes wet near the main event over the next year. (A championship match at a lower-tier PPV, or a title match on RAW that isn't a complete three-minute throwaway.) The WWE obviously wants to get behind Barrett, so expect him to get a run soon after he gets back. You've also got Sheamus, who has somehow began to endear himself to fans. (Honestly didn't see that one coming.)

Right now, Dolph Ziggler is the Wrong Guy in the Wrong Place at the Wrong Time. If he gets another opportunity, he'll really have to make good with it; else, I think he might be one of those performers, like a Mr. Perfect, that has the skills but never really ascends from his position.

 

[KettleFace]

Definitely. Ziggler has come on leaps and bounds over the last few years, and for me is going to be one of the top stars of the company for years to come. The next big step for Ziggles is to drop Vickie as his manager, so we can see if he can really hold his own on the mic with the likes of Cena and Punk.

 

[Flip36]

Definitely. Ziggler has come on leaps and bounds over the last few years, and for me is going to be one of the top stars of the company for years to come. The next big step for Ziggles is to drop Vickie as his manager, so we can see if he can really hold his own on the mic with the likes of Cena and Punk.

This past SD! i liked how he walked out and just snatched that mic from Vickie's hands, I think he is on his way to be on his own with out a mouth piece.

 

[Flip36]

Ziggler has been around forever. He doesnt have it and he never will. Besides, he is TOO SMALL!

ah, ignorance. DZ is the future, nobody sells it in the ring as he does and the dude doesn't complain once.

 

[Ryberg]

This past SD! i liked how he walked out and just snatched that mic from Vickie's hands, I think he is on his way to be on his own with out a mouth piece.

His own mouth piece? God help us all.

I wish people would stop comparing him to Mr. Perfect and Rude. For one they could ACTUALLY use a mic and get the crowd going which is something he has have failed to do and probably never will. Number two Curt was mega over from day one. The only comparison you can make to Rude is the body. But Rude had a much better physique then Ziggler. Rude was sooo oooo much better on the mic then Ziggler. Hennan was there because he was Bobby! Vickie actually reminds me a lot of him.

Ziggler MAY have been a great 80's character but in 2012 he's more a cross between a Lex Luger physique, Lance Storm in ring ability, John Morrison on the mic.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Does Dolph deserve a main event title reign and when do you think he will win it?

Fuck NO!

Now before anyone gets on me about that (I know how much a lot of you feel about Ziggler) let me tell you why.

He garners no emotional reaction whatsoever.

This is a big thing. Is Ziggler decent on the mic? Yes. Is Ziggler good in the ring? Yes. Is Ziggler improving? Yes. Is Ziggler better than a lot of the roster? Yes. Does any of this matter currently? Not at all.

Ziggler definitely has the mechanics down but he's also a guy who could leave WWE and within a month 99% of the fans won't give a shit. He's not that over, he has no real charisma and the fan's don't have any emotional attachment to this guy whatsoever. If the emotional attachment isn't there then you shouldn't be in the main event, simple as that!

To be a main eventer you have to at least get the crowd invested in you emotionally. CM Punk has that, Cena has that, Triple H has that, Daniel Bryan has recently was able to get that, guys like Ziggler and Swagger do not have that. They are good wrestlers, they can put on good matches but at the end of the day even when they give a good match usually from my point of view this is how it is:

"That was a really good match, but who gives a shit?"

That's what Ziggler needs before he becomes a main eventer. Make people pay attention to him, connect with the audience, get fans invested in him emotionally and until he has that there's no point.

Say what you want about guys like Goldberg and Warrior not being good wrestlers but I would take those guys over Ziggler any day of the week. At least Goldberg and Warrior got people invested in them and even with their limited skill you didn't care because you were enthralled with them and their characters and this is the reason people remember these guys over guys like Ziggler.

For what its worth I think Ziggler has the tools to become a main eventer in time, he just needs to find that little extra to make the fans give a shit about him, when he does that (and I think he eventually will) he's gonna be a big star in wrestling, but not yet.

 

[Ryberg]

Does Dolph deserve a main event title reign and when do you think he will win it?

Fuck NO!

Now before anyone gets on me about that (I know how much a lot of you feel about Ziggler) let me tell you why.

He garners no emotional reaction whatsoever.

This is a big thing. Is Ziggler decent on the mic? Yes. Is Ziggler good in the ring? Yes. Is Ziggler improving? Yes. Is Ziggler better than a lot of the roster? Yes. Does any of this matter currently? Not at all.

Ziggler definitely has the mechanics down but he's also a guy who could leave WWE and within a month 99% of the fans won't give a shit. He's not that over, he has no real charisma and the fan's don't have any emotional attachment to this guy whatsoever. If the emotional attachment isn't there then you shouldn't be in the main event, simple as that!

To be a main eventer you have to at least get the crowd invested in you emotionally. CM Punk has that, Cena has that, Triple H has that, Daniel Bryan has recently was able to get that, guys like Ziggler and Swagger do not have that. They are good wrestlers, they can put on good matches but at the end of the day even when they give a good match usually from my point of view this is how it is:

"That was a really good match, but who gives a shit?"

That's what Ziggler needs before he becomes a main eventer. Make people pay attention to him, connect with the audience, get fans invested in him emotionally and until he has that there's no point.

Say what you want about guys like Goldberg and Warrior not being good wrestlers but I would take those guys over Ziggler any day of the week. At least Goldberg and Warrior got people invested in them and even with their limited skill you didn't care because you were enthralled with them and their characters and this is the reason people remember these guys over guys like Ziggler.

For what its worth I think Ziggler has the tools to become a main eventer in time, he just needs to find that little extra to make the fans give a shit about him, when he does that (and I think he eventually will) he's gonna be a big star in wrestling, but not yet.

I do agree with 100% of all you said minus the fact one day he will become a main eventer in time. He's been on the roster for years and never made it. I don't get why people think mid-carders are soo bad. There have been great mid-carders in the past. He's got no charisma and as you said 99% of the fans could care less about him. I know I don't like him but I really don't see him ever making it. If he hasn't made it by now with all the pushes he never will. Eventually they will get sick of pushing him. Short of him beating Cena to a plump and forcing to to retire (if Cena wants time off), I don't see people caring. Hell if he did that he might go over as a face and get cheered.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I do agree with 100% of all you said minus the fact one day he will become a main eventer in time. He's been on the roster for years and never made it. I don't get why people think mid-carders are soo bad. There have been great mid-carders in the past. He's got no charisma and as you said 99% of the fans could care less about him. I know I don't like him but I really don't see him ever making it. If he hasn't made it by now with all the pushes he never will. Eventually they will get sick of pushing him. Short of him beating Cena to a plump and forcing to to retire (if Cena wants time off), I don't see people caring. Hell if he did that he might go over as a face and get cheered.

To be honest I don't really care if he makes it either, I feel guys like Ziggler are a dime a dozen in wrestling, you could find a million others like him good mechanical skills but nothing that makes them marketable or makes people care for them.

I really don't know if Ziggler will make it but he does have some good qualities. Right now I will give him the benefit of the doubt, he wouldn't be the first wrestler that took years to get people to care for them. Do I think it will happen? I have my doubts but I will be hopeful even if I'm dead wrong (which I could very well be). I think his big issue is putting it all together and finding the "it" factor, I think the tools are there but if he can't put it together then its all for not.

 

[Kong]

I think hes great. Doesnt mean he should ever touch WWE championship gold. What is so wrong with what he currently is? Not everyone can be the champ. In the 80's two guys held the belt. Imagine the outcry if the IWC had been around then for the like of the Junk Yard Dog to hold the WWE championship.hahaha

 

[Iversen]

I don't understand people that are saying Ziggler has failed? What has he failed at? Sure you could say he doesn't draw or get heat himself but do we really know that? He's never been given a chance to draw and before Vickie was never in a position to get heat as he meant fuck all in terms of the big picture and now has never had a chance to prove he can't do it by himself.

WWE obviously know that Ziggler has it. They've already figured out that he's the best seller they've had since HBK, at least in my opinion, and that he can make anyone else look good. They've also shown they think he can be a part of the main event with his mini feuds with Edge and Punk both of which have led to high quality matches. I think they are just waiting for a time that makes sense for him to move into the title picture. If Bryan hadn't been on the roll he has I wouldn't be surprised if it would have been Ziggler getting his shot at the moment. His split from Swagger and possibly Vickie that they seem about to build up to is the big moment. He comes out of this hot and he will make it, if he doesn't expect a couple more years in what could basically be redefined the Kofi role.

 

[xavyer]

In my opinion, the Dolph Ziggler situation is kind of a coin toss, it can go either way, me personaly, i wish he make's it, the guy has the talent, the look, mic skills can improve, as they say: practice makes perfect,, at this moment, he's not that over with the fans, but also that can change, i think he needs to find that connection with them, i have a feeling that something similar will happen with Dolph and Vicky to Shawn Michaels and Sensational Sherrie, when Shawn droped her his carreer took of, i think that might happen to Dolph as soon as he drops Vicky, you never know, or like some people asy in this thread, if he finds the right time and the right moment he can make it.......

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Ziggler can go in the ring, he takes great bumps, and he's got the look.

He's fine in the ring. He is good enough to be on the main roster and belongs on each show every to satiate the desires on the so called "technical" wrestling fan. But taking "great" bumps is not really something you want to do, especially for a heel. Wrestling is a fake sport and when you stand out by taking "great" bumps or "overselling" you're doing a disservice to your opponent and the rest of the roster. The fans should be more focused on the protagonists offense, not the victim's punishment. Ziggler makes wrestling look to fake sometimes.

And his look is nothing extraordinary. Sure he's ripped but he's not that big, has a smushed face and squinty eyes. His look and facial expressions don't engage the audience in a similar way to a guy like McIntyre.

Mic skills can always improve over time if he gets a chance to talk every week.

I guess but he has the voice of a whiny teenage boy, not someone who commands respect, especially not as a face.

Look at Benoit? A phenomenal talent with subpar mic skills, but he made it to the top and I have faith Dolph will as well.

This is a good point but Benoit really did stand out amongst the crowd, Ziggler doesn't. Plus, Benoit's zenith was at a time when WWE went through a long period of cartoonish top guys. Right now we are in a reality period.

He's a homegrown WWE talent. He's a modern day Mr. Perfect/Rick Rude hybrid. This guy will be WWE Champion/World Champion before 2012 ends.

You make a good point about WWE taking care of their homegrown talent and his similarities to Perfect but I am not sure if you ever watched Rick Rude perform.

I think he may get the opportunity, but only because of a lack of draws not because he has 'that'. Regardless, I hope I'm wrong, I would like the see the guy succeed, get over and actually draw.

 

[Mantis]

I think hes great. Doesnt mean he should ever touch WWE championship gold. What is so wrong with what he currently is? Not everyone can be the champ. In the 80's two guys held the belt. Imagine the outcry if the IWC had been around then for the like of the Junk Yard Dog to hold the WWE championship.hahaha

There are plenty of guys who should be career midcarders and never hold a World Title, but at some point, a few guys should be bumped up to main event status. This is especially the case now as the WWE is so desperate for megastars that they keep bringing back nostalgia acts. Comparing the 80s to today isn't really fair. There is much more wrestling TV to watch now and if only 2 or 3 guys held the belt, they would get overexposed quickly.

As for Ziggler, I'm not sold unless I see that he can draw a reaction without Vickie's cheap heat. But he seems to have all the tools and he deserves a solid, consistent push at the main event level or something close. He's definitely above teaming with Swagger.

 

[EssWhyDee]

Firstly. I'm starting to become a fan of dolph ziggler ...
I like the way he sells, and to be fair he has paid his dues by sometimes jobbing.....

I feel now is the perfect time to give him that face push, and the fact that we can see him slowly turning face gradually is by far more effective than just randomly coming to the ring with a smile , complimenting the audience, and fighting a heel.... Others may say ziggler should have received his push time back, but i think...its just about right... I mean there's more heat on vicky than him i think now...

Now that RKO is out for a bit and mysterio,barrett,borne,Henry, etc...
Theres lots of room for other talent to be elevated to a higher level such as ziggler, cody,etc...

Do I think ziggler will win a world title-does he deserve it...? YES YES YES
When? He should be built up ASAP in the main event sceneand id like to see ziggler be our new world heavyweight champion before the end of the year along with Sheamus turning heel...he needs to be a heel...ziggler should be a face for a lomg time now

Ziggler deserves a world title... He is gettin better on the Mic, and dare I say it...is almost on level of punk, in the ring....

Give him a chance to shine...! Make him the #2 Face of smackdown and I see him being the #1 face of a brand in the coming years...

 

[JaceEvans]

WOW all these people SH#tting on young talent saying there never going to make it to the Main Event. How the H*ll can you say that? You don't know. How old is Ziggler mid 20's? He's got a lot of time to sharpen his silver tongue, if I was a betting man I'd feel pretty safe with him. When he first started out with the Spirit Squad I bet you guys would say he wouldn't even gotten this far. My point is a lot can happen in 15 years don't be so quick to put the Mid-card stamp on him or anyone for that matter.