Doc Rivers to the Clippers

[Big Sexy]

It looks as if (pending league approval) the Doc Rivers saga is over. The Celtics have agreed to let Rivers out of his contract in exchange for a 2015 first round pick and the Clippers have agreed to terms on a 3 year $21 million contract with Rivers. As of right now the Deandre Jordan for KG talks are dead because they don't want the league to think there is any correlation between the two deals, however, those talks will likely be revisited in the future. There is also a good chance that Paul Pierce will be bought out in Boston and LA would be a likely destination for him.

What are your thoughts on the move? Did they give up too much? What other moves do you see the Clippers making this offseason?

 

[WarEagle89]

Leave it to the Clippers to make this whole ordeal last longer than it ever should. The fact they only gave up one first rounder for Doc is rather good. Hopefully that doesn't mean that they'll ship Jordan & Bledsoe for KG in the future.

 

[Stormtrooper]

I personally do not get it, at all.

Doc Rivers is a good coach, no doubt about it, but I don't see a coach being worth a First Round Pick, unless his name is Phil Jackson back when he was with Chicago (and had a long time left coaching). Plus,he all but made it known he wanted out of Boston, so why not just see if he could just weasel his way out of the contract and get him without having to give up a good pick. Or save your first round pick (and considerable money) and hire a guy like Brian Shaw.

What I find even worse is that it's a 2015 first round pick, A/K/A the draft after the 2014-2015 season, which is 2 seasons from now. This team may be crap in 2 years if they add KG as expected (who will be gone or shit by then) and ditch young talent. That means they could be giving up a lottery pick.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Did Donald Sterling die and no one cared enough to report it? I'm shocked he'd pay a coach $7m a year.

I'm guessing Chris Paul is behind this move. The Clippers have to keep him and his glasses wearing twin happy. Rumor has it he isn't going to miss Del Negro and I can see him being fond of Rivers. Rivers has always seemed like a player's coach. Now they better hope bringing in Rivers brings in some free agents. Most likely that 2015 pick is going to be in the mid 20's so it is highly unlikely that pick is going to bring in much talent. Decent trade for both sides but more important for the Clippers future than the Celtics.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I personally do not get it, at all.

Doc Rivers is a good coach, no doubt about it, but I don't see a coach being worth a First Round Pick, unless his name is Phil Jackson back when he was with Chicago (and had a long time left coaching). Plus,he all but made it known he wanted out of Boston, so why not just see if he could just weasel his way out of the contract and get him without having to give up a good pick. Or save your first round pick (and considerable money) and hire a guy like Brian Shaw.

What I find even worse is that it's a 2015 first round pick, A/K/A the draft after the 2014-2015 season, which is 2 seasons from now. This team may be crap in 2 years if they add KG as expected (who will be gone or shit by then) and ditch young talent. That means they could be giving up a lottery pick.

The NBA draft, to include the first round, is a wash these days. Most years once you get beyond the first 2 or 3 picks you've got just as much of a chance as getting a D-League player as you do someone who is just above average. The game and the players playing it has changed so much that, unless you're a true superstar, one player rarely makes much of a difference. It's not a team game anymore, minus a few exceptions. How's John Wall doing? Greg Oden? Adam Morrison?

In my eyes, LA just robbed Boston blind. A proven coach is worth much more than a first round draft pick, unless you happen to get lucky and nab a future HOFer.

On a side note: it would be quite ironic if Paul Pierce, a Boston lifer, ended up playing for LA, even if it's not the Lakers.

 

[WarEagle89]

John Wall doesn't really help your case here. He's a very relevent PG with absolutely no talent around him. All he needs is a consistent jumpshot and he could easily become a Top 3 PG. So yeah, John Wall doesn't belong on the list with Greg Oden & Adam Morrison.

This move was undoubtedly to keep Chris Paul happy. Although it is still a good hire, the Clippers went into it looking to make Paul happy. Even without the move for Rivers, I still feel Paul would resign with the Clippers anyway, strictly because of how much more money they could offer.

 

[Megatron]

I personally do not get it, at all.

Doc Rivers is a good coach, no doubt about it, but I don't see a coach being worth a First Round Pick, unless his name is Phil Jackson back when he was with Chicago (and had a long time left coaching). Plus,he all but made it known he wanted out of Boston, so why not just see if he could just weasel his way out of the contract and get him without having to give up a good pick. Or save your first round pick (and considerable money) and hire a guy like Brian Shaw.

What I find even worse is that it's a 2015 first round pick, A/K/A the draft after the 2014-2015 season, which is 2 seasons from now. This team may be crap in 2 years if they add KG as expected (who will be gone or shit by then) and ditch young talent. That means they could be giving up a lottery pick.

Er, you realize this is the NBA Draft not the NFL draft, right? Rarely, if ever, will your superstar players come from those late first round picks.

And I seriously doubt THIS Clippers team will be in the lottery two years from now. It's almost a near certainty CP3 will be resigned now that he has a coach of his own choosing, and this team was able to be a 4 seed with Vinny Del Negro running the show. And Doc is a MUCH better coach than VDN will ever dream to be.

If I'm the Clips, it's a move I had to make. You're getting one of the four coaches active with a title (Doc, Spo, Pop, and Carlile) and is actually worth his salt. You please your superstar and top 5 player enough so he'll stay and keep your team relevant and possible title contenders. If they were to add KG (according to the league I don't believe it'll go though, but who knows) I'd like them even more. But at this moment they look to be in the top 4 seed in the West again, a territory most of the Clippers fans aren't very used to.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

John Wall doesn't really help your case here. He's a very relevent PG with absolutely no talent around him. All he needs is a consistent jumpshot and he could easily become a Top 3 PG. So yeah, John Wall doesn't belong on the list with Greg Oden & Adam Morrison.

In trying to disprove my point, you just proved it further. Like I said, these days, one player does not make much of a difference unless they are a true superstar future HOFer. What's John Wall doing? Playing around the lottery. A first round pick for a proven head coach? The team that got the coach won that trade by a mile.

 

[Megatron]

The Wizards were actually over .500 when Wall played this year and should be in playoff contention next season. Wall is pretty much the key to their success. He shouldn't be lumped in with busts like Morrison and Oden when he has proven to be worth the hype when healthy.

If this was a lottery pick it'd be a different story, but a late first rounder is absolutely worth Doc.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Er, you realize this is the NBA Draft not the NFL draft, right? Rarely, if ever, will your superstar players come from those late first round picks.

Yes I do. And regardless of where you draft when you keep not drafting players you don't get the players that end up being role players, yet alone guys who get to become stars.

And I seriously doubt THIS Clippers team will be in the lottery two years from now. It's almost a near certainty CP3 will be resigned now that he has a coach of his own choosing, and this team was able to be a 4 seed with Vinny Del Negro running the show. And Doc is a MUCH better coach than VDN will ever dream to be.

If I'm the Clips, it's a move I had to make. You're getting one of the four coaches active with a title (Doc, Spo, Pop, and Carlile) and is actually worth his salt. You please your superstar and top 5 player enough so he'll stay and keep your team relevant and possible title contenders. If they were to add KG (according to the league I don't believe it'll go though, but who knows) I'd like them even more. But at this moment they look to be in the top 4 seed in the West again, a territory most of the Clippers fans aren't very used to.

[/quote]
CP3 is 28 and had knee injuries.

Oh, and until CP3 signs I can't expect anything. He was really pissed they pinned the VDN firing on him. He may use that as motivation to leave.

In 2 years we have no clue who will be on this team. If they sign CP3 he's really the only guy who is guaranteed to be on the roster.

If they sign KG there's thoughts they could get rid of Blake (they pretty much play the same position). DeAndre Jordan would go in a KG deal, possibly along with Bledsoe. As I said prior KG has less then a 1% chance of still playing well in 2 years. So the 2014-2015 Clippers could consist of CP3, 14 nobodies, and Doc Rivers, who will probably not be happy with rebuilding (why do you think he's not staying around in Boston? He doesn't want to rebuild), and especially not happy with rebuilding without the benefit of a draft pick.

Basically, for all we know Doc Rivers by that time could end up doing exactly what he just did, which is weasel his way out of town to coach elsewhere.

 

[Lowdown]

Seems to be a good move by the Clips. Doc Rivers could make them a more defensive minded unit. Now as far as Boston goes, this seems like something Danny Ainge has been planning for. He strikes me as a GM that thrives on rebuilding at a low value and adding one or two pieces to turn the team around. I hear they might pick up Brian Shaw. But as much as Del Negro made them a contender, perhaps Doc can maybe get them to the conference finals.

 

[Megatron]

Blake's not leaving there. He just signed an extension that kicks in this year. If KG came he would play Center, a spot he's played at the last two years. And CP3 will come back. The Clips can give him the most money and it was clear that Doc is a coach he wants.

And role players can always be found on the FA market. A core starting with Paul and Griffin will be a playoff contender. At the moment, I don't see how you can hate this deal if you're a Clippers fan. VDN isn't much for a coach, and Doc's coaching abilities are up near the top of the league.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Blake's not leaving there. He just signed an extension that kicks in this year. If KG came he would play Center, a spot he's played at the last two years. And CP3 will come back. The Clips can give him the most money and it was clear that Doc is a coach he wants.

And role players can always be found on the FA market. A core starting with Paul and Griffin will be a playoff contender. At the moment, I don't see how you can hate this deal if you're a Clippers fan. VDN isn't much for a coach, and Doc's coaching abilities are up near the top of the league.

If they keep Blake they won't have the cap space to sign anyone with CP3, Blake, and KG.

There were mentions of potentially dropping Blake, although I think that was in an attempt to try and get Dwight Howard, which probably won't happen, especially if they get KG. Either way they'd be stupid to drop Blake, especially for guy that's older (either KG or Dwight). Miami got decent players around because they all took less money, but I doubt CP3 will stay for a dollar less, even if they got the coach he "wanted".


Regardless, Doc Rivers won 1 championship in Boston. Sure he's a good coach, but he had tremendous talent and could only muster one championship. I'd rather spend 1/5th of the money on a coach like Brian Shaw or some top assistant then spend a first round pick (deep in the future where you have no idea where the pick will be) and then spend 7 million a year. Popovich is worth $7M. Maybe Spolstra will get to that level in a few years if they keep winning. Phil Jackson is worth that. That's it.

 

[Megatron]

The first rounder isn't deep in the future. It's two years from now. The Clippers will be a playoff team two years from now. CP3's one of the 5 best players in the league and Blake is a star player as well. No matter what else they do, they already have a solid core built. I see no reason why you doubt that they'll fall apart so quickly. They'll find players to fill any bench spots, and bench spots don't make or break teams. Stars do. The Clips are off to a good start in that regard.

And while it'd be nice for these assistants to turn into the next Popovich, that'd be a foolish chance for the Clips to take. For 1 reason, CP3 may not have stayed if they went with Shaw (or Byron Scott, who was rumored to be their guy if the Rivers deal fell through). No CP3 = no chance for the Clips to be a legitimate threat. As bad as it sounds that the Clips fell to all of CP3's needs, that's exactly what they should do if they wanted to ensure he would stay. They aren't relevant without him. Also, assistants don't always pan out. You KNOW you're getting a very good-great head coach with Doc. The same can't be said for Shaw or any other highly regarded assistant. If they were gonna be cheap they may as well kept VDN. Coaching is a little overrated in the NBA (compared to say the NFL) but a change from VDN to Doc will be a noticable one.

 

[Stormtrooper]

The first rounder isn't deep in the future. It's two years from now. The Clippers will be a playoff team two years from now. CP3's one of the 5 best players in the league and Blake is a star player as well. No matter what else they do, they already have a solid core built. I see no reason why you doubt that they'll fall apart so quickly. They'll find players to fill any bench spots, and bench spots don't make or break teams. Stars do. The Clips are off to a good start in that regard.

And while it'd be nice for these assistants to turn into the next Popovich, that'd be a foolish chance for the Clips to take. For 1 reason, CP3 may not have stayed if they went with Shaw (or Byron Scott, who was rumored to be their guy if the Rivers deal fell through). No CP3 = no chance for the Clips to be a legitimate threat. As bad as it sounds that the Clips fell to all of CP3's needs, that's exactly what they should do if they wanted to ensure he would stay. They aren't relevant without him. Also, assistants don't always pan out. You KNOW you're getting a very good-great head coach with Doc. The same can't be said for Shaw or any other highly regarded assistant. If they were gonna be cheap they may as well kept VDN. Coaching is a little overrated in the NBA (compared to say the NFL) but a change from VDN to Doc will be a noticable one.

There is no guarantee the Clips will be a playoff team in 2 years, and it would be ridiculously over-speculative to say otherwise.

Everyone said the Lakers would be a playoff team this season (and we knew all the players on the team). It took a miracle for them to backdoor into a bottom seed. And now I would bet people will think they won't be a playoff team next year since they could lose Howard and Bryant is a massive, huge, ginormous question mark for 2013-2014. We have no idea who would be on the Clips in 2014-2015. Hell we don't even know who will be on the Clips in 2013-2014. There's no way you can say they will be a playoff team.

Anything can happen. And CP3 did have knee issues in the past, so who knows what will happen.

Oh, and a change from VDN to Brian Shaw is ridiculously noticeable, just like upgrading from VDN to Doc is noticable. VDN sucks, Shaw won't, Doc didn't suck in Boston. And if coaching is overrated as you just said, then why give up a first round pick and $7M a year for someone? Why not keep the pick (which has value) and 3/4ths of the money.

 

[Megatron]

The difference between the Lakers and Clippers is that the Lakers coaches were/are horrible, and Doc isn't, and that Howard was in his first year on the team and Dantoni didn't really know how to use his roster. The Clippers won't have to worry about CP3 or Blake leaving since they are locked up for long term deals. You're worrying about rotation guys when there's always guys available in FA and the NBA is a star driven league. You aren't gonna win much unless you have some top players in their prime, which the Clips do. First round picks that aren't lottery picks are worth giving up for Doc, especially since it's only 1 2 years from now.

And you seem to be underselling Doc as a coach. He's one of only 4 active with a title, and they stayed competitive much longer than anyone gave them credit for. Most thought the big 3 era would be only a 2 or 3 year plan, and instead he got 5 years and 5 deep runs out of guys who were wearing down, and after the first year they seemed to get hit with injuries at the worst time. I know Shaw is highly regarded and he may be great in the future, but a team that's thinking of winning a title now (since CP3 isn't getting younger) I want a coach that has experience and knows what it takes to win a title as the guy running the show.

 

[Big Sexy]

It was a good move by the Clippers. Doc Rivers is a great coach and while he only has one championship, he is guaranteed to make the Clippers a better team. This also ensures that CP3 will be signing a 5 year extension on July 1st. The Clippers have a great chance to compete for championships the next few years with Paul and Griffin both having long term contracts. A first round pick (likely in the 20's) two years from now is just fine to give up as a trade off for Rivers.

As far as KG goes, that deal is starting to become more and more unlikely. Even if it does go down the Clippers wouldn't give up any more then just Deandre Jordan. Jordan has seemingly reached his peak in terms of what he will become as a player. KG only has two years left on his deal and the last year is only partially guaranteed so if the trade goes down it won't affect the Clippers long term cap situation. A more likely scenario, however, is Paul Pierce being released by the Celtics and then signing in LA for the MLE. The Clippers also have a great trade chip in Eric Bledsoe and a deal that is rumored now would be Bledsoe and Caron Butler for Aaron Afflalo.

A starting lineup of Paul, Afflalo, Pierce, Griffin, and Deandre Jordan, with Jamal Crawford as the sixth man can do some damage.