Do YOU want Cena to turn heel?

[The Crock]

Once upon a time, you had guys travel the world working in various promotions and countries and territories honing their craft, and would have been working all different levels of the card for damn near a decade before showing up in WWE.

Now, some talent scouts see you in a bodybuilding comp, a modeling agency, or acting tryouts, and then you wrestle in FCW for 3 years, and bam, you are on the main roster and horrific tv shows like NXT.

When I see the first part, Chris Jericho instantly pops into my head. He trained with the Hart Brothers, worked Mexico, Europe, Japan, ECW, WCW, and THEN made it to the WWF. You can't get that type of experience today. You can work the Indy scene and get a chance in Japan or Mexico (small tours though), from there you better damn well hope WWE or TNA are interested, but that's two COMPLETELY different scenarios. Fifteen years ago if you made WCW, you were ready for the WWF. TNA won't exactly prepare you for the WWE nowadays.

It's basically body guys with no actual wrestling ability (Mason Ryan) who it's going to come down to, in terms of the future of professional wrestling. I'm not exactly very confident in that.

 

[JGlass]

Serious business time; am I the only one that believes in CM Punk, Randy Orton and, to a lesser extent, Rey Mysterio and Sheamus?

Pffft, all these guys are solid. But if we're talking about building for the future (which you might not be, but Shocky and NorCal were) only Orton can really help you. Punk is 33, Sheamus is 33 and Rey is 36. I doubt Punk has what it takes to push Cena out of the top face spot, as Cena will always be the natural face.

The only guy that could maybe dethrone Cena is Orton, but I don't see that happening. I see Orton turning heel to do final battle with Cena at the end of his career.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Guys like Wade Barrett, Sheamus and Daniel Bryan have come up through FCW recently, have they not? And guys like Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose look set to do so in the nearish future.

Why am I the only optimistic one here? Optimism is not usually my thing.

 

[The Man They Call WMD]

Serious business time; am I the only one that believes in CM Punk, Randy Orton and, to a lesser extent, Rey Mysterio and Sheamus?

Punk, was around in the late 90's when the industry was big. He went to Japan countless times. Then wrestled in Roh, TNA, and many other places to improve.

Orton is a third generation wrestler. He grew up in the buisness and understood it.

Rey as well, he also wrestled in Mexico, WCW. He was a star before WWE.

Sheamus is the new breed. A guy with limited experience outside the WWE. While he has worked for the most, most who come this way don't. I think WWE will soon learn that the way to aquire talent, it to tell these guys to go to ROH or other indies first. Build up your game, learn what the buisness is all about.. Traveling accross the county, learning how to speak, and more importantly how to wrestle.

The guy spotted at a gym, and brought in, is at a severe disadvantage. He at most will have three years experience. The guy on the indies will have 7- 10 years. In those extended years is where you get good. Timing, Presense, and how to work a crowd.

Three years just isn't enough.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Pffft, all these guys are solid. But if we're talking about building for the future (which you might not be, but Shocky and NorCal were) only Orton can really help you. Punk is 33, Sheamus is 33 and Rey is 36. I doubt Punk has what it takes to push Cena out of the top face spot, as Cena will always be the natural face.

I was thinking more in the context of Cena turning heel for, at most, a year. For the sake of argument, let's say Cena turning heel is undoubtedly a good idea and the only hitch you have is having him replaced as top face for a year or less. Surely even Mysterio will be around long enough for that.

The only guy that could maybe dethrone Cena is Orton, but I don't see that happening. I see Orton turning heel to do final battle with Cena at the end of his career.

I'd rather Orton/Cena as a face/face thing, like Austin/Rock or, uh, Punk/Cena or, um, Christian/Orton.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Guys like Wade Barrett, Sheamus and Daniel Bryan have come up through FCW recently, have they not? And guys like Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose look set to do so in the nearish future.

Why am I the only optimistic one here? Optimism is not usually my thing.

Are you smoking crack?

 

[Shocky]

Guys like Wade Barrett, Sheamus and Daniel Bryan have come up through FCW recently, have they not? And guys like Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose look set to do so in the nearish future.

Why am I the only optimistic one here? Optimism is not usually my thing.

All of those guys can be good strong stars for the company, but I don't think any of them have that Superstar type of persona in them. Punk is the closest, but he maybe too radical for his own good.

The problem is the WWE and having this obsession with social media and being accepted into pop culture. The WWE wants mainstream acceptance, but the wrestling business just will never be accepted like that. In the process they've alienated and jaded their loyal fanbase. The WWE has essentially shit on the rural/hillbilly type crowd that WCW/NWA had controlled in the south. I could go on and on.

I still argue, the WWE was good at taking other peoples talent, and making them into stars. With the exception of the OVW guys that came up in 2002, the WWE really has struggled to produce big time stars in their system. All of the big stars in the WWF/E have been talent that was discovered and applied their craft outside of the company.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Are you smoking crack?

Well, he was in FCW, wasn't he? I was using it to point out that the WWE's not opposed to bringing in people who aren't muscle bound freaks whose primary experience is their farm league. Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins would also be examples of that, I believe.

 

[JGlass]

I was thinking more in the context of Cena turning heel for, at most, a year. For the sake of argument, let's say Cena turning heel is undoubtedly a good idea and the only hitch you have is having him replaced as top face for a year or less. Surely even Mysterio will be around long enough for that.

I'd rather Orton/Cena as a face/face thing, like Austin/Rock or, uh, Punk/Cena or, um, Christian/Orton.

Ah, now I follow. You raise a perfectly fine point there, but I don't think Mysterio would be your top face. I love Mysterio, he's my favorite wrestler of all time, but he just doesn't have the versatility to carry on good, long, interesting feuds with a variety of opponents, which is one of the strengths of Cena. Fortunately, I think Orton and CM Punk also have that ability (Orton more than Punk, but Punk too), so they'd still be fine choices. I still think Orton would be the guy to be the company's face for a year.

I wonder what a year long heel turn would do for Cena's career. Would people love him after he turned face again, or would folks just have an, "Oh not this shit again," attitude?

 

[The Crock]

Well, he was in FCW, wasn't he? I was using it to point out that the WWE's not opposed to bringing in people who aren't muscle bound freaks whose primary experience is their farm league. Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins would also be examples of that, I believe.

For a month or something, only because he wanted to get used to the WWE style, though.

EDIT: Misread.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Well, he was in FCW, wasn't he? I was using it to point out that the WWE's not opposed to bringing in people who aren't muscle bound freaks whose primary experience is their farm league. Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins would also be examples of that, I believe.

Them not being opposed to it does not mean it is the primary means of producing talent.

It surely, is not.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

and regardless, as ive said, something so visceral to the kiddies just isnt the WWE way. Never was, never will be. Even IF another Hogan-Austin-Rock-Lesnar came along.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Ah, now I follow. You raise a perfectly fine point there, but I don't think Mysterio would be your top face. I love Mysterio, he's my favorite wrestler of all time, but he just doesn't have the versatility to carry on good, long, interesting feuds with a variety of opponents, which is one of the strengths of Cena. Fortunately, I think Orton and CM Punk also have that ability (Orton more than Punk, but Punk too), so they'd still be fine choices. I still think Orton would be the guy to be the company's face for a year.

I'd trust Rey to carry the brand, injury concerns aside. I don't want to sound like a cliché internet fan, but Cena's feuds only really have a 50% hit rate for me. I reckon Rey could live up to that, providing the writing for him isn't the tried and tested "...and then he gets the living piss beaten out of him to end the show." And people call him Super Rey!

Orton's a good choice - and we all know how much I love Randy Orton, don't we? - but there's a good amount of rejigging to do before he can be WWE's top face. They've kind of hit the brakes on him as of late; not that I'm complaining.

What's most confused me is people going, "Oh, yeah, sure - Cena could turn heel but who's going to fill in for him? Absolutely no-one. There's nobody. I cannot think of a single person." Motherfucker, have you not been watching for the last six months? Have you forgotten to turn your television on? Have you missed this son of a bitch over here? Yeah, this guy; the one getting monster pops; the one selling t-shirts by the barrel; the one with the big fucking championship belt; that guy.

Maybe I'm just being naive. I just thought the response to "Who can fill in for the number one babyface?" would pretty obviously be "The number two babyface."

Them not being opposed to it does not mean it is the primary means of producing talent.

It surely, is not.

Quite right.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

What's most confused me is people going, "Oh, yeah, sure - Cena could turn heel but who's going to fill in for him? Absolutely no-one. There's nobody. I cannot think of a single person." Motherfucker, have you not been watching for the last six months? Have you forgotten to turn your television on? Have you missed this son of a bitch over here? Yeah, this guy; the one getting monster pops; the one selling t-shirts by the barrel; the one with the big fucking championship belt; that guy.

He turned face in July, Sam. July.

Cena has been THE guy for seven years. Punk hasnt sniffed the ME of a wrestlemania, and has been a flop for more of his time in the WWE than he has been a success.

Hurtful words, I know, and coming from a guy who counts Punk as his favorite wrestler. It is what it is though.

To undo everything you have with Cena you need an absolute sure thing to replace him. A sure thing, or one who will be bigger (which is were I got my transcendant argument)

 

[Uncle Sam]

As Coco The Monkey would hastily point out, the difference between a never-was and a bona fide superstar can be as little as three weeks of build. I don't think Punk's as big as Cena, no, but I honestly don't think the gap is particularly wide either.

Don't get me wrong, I understand concerns about ratings and buyrates and hey, will kids like Punk as much as they do Cena? I get that. What I don't get is people going "But who could we get in to replace Cena?" and then ignoring the guy that's waving the god damn WWE Championship in their face as if he doesn't even exist.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

As Coco The Monkey would hastily point out, the difference between a never-was and a bona fide superstar can be as little as three weeks of build. I don't think Punk's as big as Cena, no, but I honestly don't think the gap is particularly wide either.

Don't get me wrong, I understand concerns about ratings and buyrates and hey, will kids like Punk as much as they do Cena? I get that. What I don't get is people going "But who could we get in to replace Cena?" and then ignoring the guy that's waving the god damn WWE Championship in their face as if he doesn't even exist.

Sam. I ran down the steps in the aisleway in Madison Square Garden and nearly fell and broke my fucking neck in order to hug IC and swing him around like a massive ragdoll in the wake of Punk winning the title on sunday. I like him too.

But, there is just more stability and research needed to say he will be a sure thing, and could be the face of the company, in the wake of Cena turning his back on the kiddies.

Before WM 25, Punk was getting a pretty strong "no one likes or cares about you, please just go away" reactions...Then a few months later, Straight Edge came into our lives, and all of that was forgotten.

Give it a bit more time and let him prove a bit more, and we shall revisit the thought.

 

[hatehabsforever]

To undo everything you have with Cena you need an absolute sure thing to replace him. A sure thing, or one who will be bigger (which is were I got my transcendant argument)

I'm not buying this argument for one second. For one thing, a Cena heel turn does not have to be a long term thing, although it could be. A six month or so heel run, to turn the wrestling world upside down, after which he sees the error of his ways and reverts back to the face of the company, that would work for me (although I would prefer longer). No need to replace him for such a shorter term run.

Not to draw a faulty comparison, but if one looks at TNA, they don't have that one guy as the major focus of the company, that one guy who transcends the rest of the company or the business. I'm not suggesting WWE follows TNA's example, as that would be suicidal, but if one company can function by committee, rather than by having one clear focal point, WWE can do it for a little.

Plus, who knows who could step up to confront heel Cena and become that next guy? When Cena debuted in 2002 or so, I don't think anyone, whether it be fans or WWE brass, ever expected him to become as huge as he did. Who knows who the next "diamond in the rough" could be, and they'll never find out if they don't try and look.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

What do you all see in Sheamus? I don't hate the guy but there's something about him I can't get into.

Imagine a Bryan and heel Cena feud.

 

[Davi323]

I fall into category 3, but leaning towards yes, just out of the curiosity as to how the WWE would pull it off. If Cena never goes heel, that's fine...he is doing pretty damn well as a face. But, after having seen the greatest face of all time become one of the greatest heels, and how it absolutely rejuvenated his career, I have to say if Hulk Hogan could do it, might be fun to see Cena do it too.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Sam. I ran down the steps in the aisleway in Madison Square Garden and nearly fell and broke my fucking neck in order to hug IC and swing him around like a massive ragdoll in the wake of Punk winning the title on sunday. I like him too.

But, there is just more stability and research needed to say he will be a sure thing, and could be the face of the company, in the wake of Cena turning his back on the kiddies.

Before WM 25, Punk was getting a pretty strong "no one likes or cares about you, please just go away" reactions...Then a few months later, Straight Edge came into our lives, and all of that was forgotten.

Give it a bit more time and let him prove a bit more, and we shall revisit the thought.

My biggest concern was that people weren't even taking Punk into consideration, they weren't even recognising that he was an option. I'll gladly admit that him being the face of a company is a risk and by no means a sure thing - what I took offence to was people apparently thinking that Punk was such a non-entity that he didn't even bear thinking about. I'm not the Punk mark sitting in the aisles yelling for my boy to get the ball and everybody else to step back, I'm the Punk mark sitting in the aisles wondering why my boy isn't even on the subs bench.

I could have said the same for Orton and Mysterio - people have been behaving as if potential replacements for Cena are absolutely zero - but it just seemed more incongruous for people not to take into account the guy that literally walked up to Cena and said "Fuck you and fuck your dynasty, I'm the best of the world, not you."

 

[The Crock]

I'm not buying this argument for one second. For one thing, a Cena heel turn does not have to be a long term thing, although it could be. A six month or so heel run, to turn the wrestling world upside down, after which he sees the error of his ways and reverts back to the face of the company, that would work for me (although I would prefer longer). No need to replace him for such a shorter term run.

Why turn him though? I mean, what if his face turn afterwards doesn't work out? What do you do then? If your new face is only temporary and Cena is out as an option, you're screwed. They'd be stuck with a revolving door of top guys and that's not something they want.

Not to draw a faulty comparison, but if one looks at TNA, they don't have that one guy as the major focus of the company, that one guy who transcends the rest of the company or the business. I'm not suggesting WWE follows TNA's example, as that would be suicidal, but if one company can function by committee, rather than by having one clear focal point, WWE can do it for a little.

Well, TNA isn't exactly doing a good job with that. They could easily have one focal point, AJ Styles, Robert Roode, James Storm, just pick a guy. Their problem is not being able to develop a guy into that focal point, they don't understand how to push someone to that next level.

Plus, who knows who could step up to confront heel Cena and become that next guy? When Cena debuted in 2002 or so, I don't think anyone, whether it be fans or WWE brass, ever expected him to become as huge as he did. Who knows who the next "diamond in the rough" could be, and they'll never find out if they don't try and look.

True.

 

[Uncle Sam]

What do you all see in Sheamus? I don't hate the guy but there's something about him I can't get into.

His current face push has been about as vanilla as they come. It's been pretty much just "Go out there, fight heels." I think if he got something meatier to get his teeth stuck into, he'd show himself to be as good as I think he is.

Imagine a Bryan and heel Cena feud.

That would be... bizarre.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

His current face push has been about as vanilla as they come. It's been pretty much just "Go out there, fight heels." I think if he got something meatier to get his teeth stuck into, he'd show himself to be as good as I think he is.

I could certainley see him with a bit more barbarian thing going, and also there is immense potential for him to lead the anti bullying thing, with his look and accent.


Nay, lets just have him tell cute Irish rhyming stories about bags of poop. that is better.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Thats part of my reasoning for Sheamus.

Radical Cena Idea: Cena turns heel and wins the U.S. or IC Title. At least I know he will be a fighting champion.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I actually wanted Orton to win the title off Rhodes. Sure, Rhodes talking about how he was going to defend it "feverishly" and bringing back that gorgeous design took its prestige up a bit, but an established main eventer treating it as something that's to be desired rather than an irrelevance would have done even more wonders for it.

We're getting a bit off-topic now, aren't we?