This week on Smackdown Dolph locked the sleeper hold in on Josh Matthews in an attempt to make it look devestating. This seems like an idea to push him by giving him 2 finishers; a submission one and a regular one. My thoughts are do you think it will ever get over as a finisher. Let's say for example if Ziggles turned face. Do you think the crowd would pop for him locking it in the same way they did for the likes of Brutus Beefcake or Roddy Piper? In wrestling today the sleeper hold is a very commonly used move and often sets a face wrestler for a comeback in a match. So my question is do you think it will successfully go over or just be a massive failure?
Do you think WWE will successfully get Dolph Ziggler's sleeper hold over as finisher?
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Unsold Bacon
Shucky Ducky Quack Quack
As long as we don't see over people using it I think they could get it over. Because I find it really stupid when someone uses someone else's finisher as a normal move. For example Jericho use the Walls of Jericho on someone and they tap then later someone applys a Boston crab and don't tap. It really gives away the feel of the finisher. As simple as it looks the sleeper hold is devastating.
It could be, It all depends on wether other people stop over using it. The sleeper is a legit move too, So it's not like it can be unbelivable. If Zigger does use it as a finisher and puts people down with it on a regular basis, It will basically mean anyone who has used it in the last 10 years has been a bitch, And not locked it in properly.
Jeffingb3oh3
Dark Match Winner
I could see them doing one of two things with this. One, either they will make this his permeant finishing manuaver. Which would be pretty badass because other than Cena's STF, they don't currently have any other superstars using a submission as their finishing move. Or B, they will totally flop this and make it look bad, and make every superstar that has used that move look like shit.
Tha Wolfpac
Hey Yo...
Hey Yo!
This looks to be like a massive failure and i'll tell you why, Dolph using the sleeper as his finisher just suggests that people who use the maneuver to get the crowd back into a match have been doing the move like a bunch of ******** weaklings, so what i am trying to say is, in this day and age the sleeper is seen as not much of a devastating move but more of a like crowd control move if you will. To get the crowd back into the match but we will see where this goes.
.Tha Wolfpac.
This looks to be like a massive failure and i'll tell you why, Dolph using the sleeper as his finisher just suggests that people who use the maneuver to get the crowd back into a match have been doing the move like a bunch of ******** weaklings, so what i am trying to say is, in this day and age the sleeper is seen as not much of a devastating move but more of a like crowd control move if you will. To get the crowd back into the match but we will see where this goes.
.Tha Wolfpac.
PsychoBlack
Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!
it may work as dolph has the skill to do it they would just have to no longer use it as a resthold roddy piper got over with it how come dolph cant?
for them to do this he has to do it on bigger wrestlers and get sort of a giant killer thing going for him
for them to do this he has to do it on bigger wrestlers and get sort of a giant killer thing going for him
He's probably better off sticking to the other move, as I can't really see everybody in the company ceasing to use the move as a rest hold just for the sake of some guy who likes to repeat his name. But then again, you can look at a guy like Big Show, who has somehow gotten a simple right hand over as a devastating finisher just because his hand is a little bigger than most people's. So I wouldn't say it's impossible, but they're gonna have to commit to it, and I would probably use his other finisher as the primary one.
Arkham Noir
With black birds following me
My reaction to this topic;
There is no way this will get over as a finisher. What the hell would be next. The suplex? The sleeper hold worked back in the day because nobody did any holds. HBK did a belly to back suplex as a finisher at one point.
But let's get serious.
The sleeper hold as a finisher is nothing short of lame. If they wanted to do a submission they should have opted for a rear naked choke. Much more creadible considering how effective it is in an MMA match.People are taken out by that move on a regular basis. The Sleeper is the Santino of submissions.Funny in some contexts, but make you want to hit the next guy you see in the balls when over exposed.
There is no way this will get over as a finisher. What the hell would be next. The suplex? The sleeper hold worked back in the day because nobody did any holds. HBK did a belly to back suplex as a finisher at one point.
But let's get serious.
The sleeper hold as a finisher is nothing short of lame. If they wanted to do a submission they should have opted for a rear naked choke. Much more creadible considering how effective it is in an MMA match.People are taken out by that move on a regular basis. The Sleeper is the Santino of submissions.Funny in some contexts, but make you want to hit the next guy you see in the balls when over exposed.
spinningtorturerack
halfnelsonfullnelsonwilli enelson
I think it could be very credible, as long as he makes it look devastating, and most of all, makes it his own. If he can start taking people out with it, then it will build up credibility. What would really get it over is if he uses it to forward his promos. Much like Edge is trying to do with the whole spear thing or like DDP did with his Diamond cutter and the whole BANG deal.
I'd love to see it work, I do like submission finishes.
I'd love to see it work, I do like submission finishes.
Are you absolutely out of your mind Asslber!?!? give Khali the world heavyweight championship once more would be the dumbest move they could ever make, it's quite so obvious that Khali's reign were absolutely shit, the guy has an overrated finisher, he's overrated pretty much in every thinkable way, and he's a worse wrestler than John Cena.
All this guy is, is a big guy from India, they thought putting the belt on Khali would draw more of the Indian people to watch, but it didn't do much for them.
I mean come on Khali's championship match vs Batista at Summerslam 2007 was given 1 out of 10 by Canadian online explorer, and it's not cause they're shit at rating cause they gave Randy Orton vs John Cena a 7.5 out of 10.
Quite frankly, Khali should never be champion again, I don't even see why he's still in the WWE, cause he brings absolutely nothing to it, even Dolph Ziggler doesn't get much out of a victory against Khali.
Which brings me to the OP, I must admit while I see it being highly doubtful that WWE is gonna push the sleeper hold back as a finisher, but more of a signature hold, I must admit I don't mind Dolph using it to end matches with, and I don't see why it can't be used as a finisher if it's done before.
After all the Spear is used by both Batista and Big Show (on occasions) and it's still considered a finisher from Edge, the Boston Crab is used by a few wrestlers here and there, but it's still considered a finisher when Jericho uses it, and to reverse it a bit, Benoit used the Crippler Crossface, but I believe Shawn and Triple H used it in the past years time without being able to finish the opponent off.
So really it's all a matter of marketing the move as a finisher and a match ender, as opposed to a regular move that, just happened to put the poor fella to sleep.
Dolph having two finishers now must be a new attempt at putting him over. I'll take the sleeper hold as long as nobody else either uses it or makes it look weak by locking it on just for show. It did put Khali down and no matter what skill he has or doesn't have, he's over 7 feet tall and got put down so I can accept the sleeper hold.
nish2231995
Occasional Pre-Show
Dolph's finisher is ridiculousy too common. A sleeper that you never see end a match, but I'd like to comment on Dolph, A guy who put a sleeper on Josh, that attracts heat.
If WWE wants to put Ziggler and the Sleeper as a credible Move they would have to start him off versing much bigger guys like he already is. But once he's done with these bigger guys and he starts using the Sleeper as a finisher against the smaller guys it will make the much bigger guys look less credible if the smaller guys don't fade away and tap out quickly
Believe it or not, but the sleeper hold used to be a "finisher", once upon a time. I see no reason why it couldn't be again. The Million Dollar Dream, which finished a lot of Ted DiBiase matches, is a sleeper. There are other wrestlers that used it quite effectively too.
The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh
Tell me what's on ur so called mind
Davi323 said:
A Cobra Clutch is not a sleeper dude, it's a Cobra Clutch. Giving it a money orientated name doesn't change the nature of the move. It's more like the Tazmission than anything.
Does anyone remember the last person to succumb to a sleeper before this started? Wasn't it Angle being choked out by Edge, while trying to avoid getting his head shaved? And that was 9 years ago! And ya know what? Even then the King said on commentary, "When's the last time you actually saw someone get put down with a sleeper?'
So no, i personally don't think anyone's going to buy into Dolph Ziggler winning matches with what is effectively a rest hold in modern day wrestling.
This is more stupid than when Coco tried to convince me that the Curb Stomp was going to get Paul Burchill over. Sorry, where is he now?
PedigreeTHE619Chokeslam
Pre-Show Stalwart
I think it could be credible. It put out Khali. Like many said, they just can't over use it now. It's such a commonly use move that happens in almost every match, so if they want to get it over they have to stop using it like they are.
Depending.
I mean first, he needs to perform it in a way that is not commonly used, like when he uses it with scissors, giving the feeling of a rear naked choke, which is not, but will give a feel like it is.
Second, try not to allow a lot of people to use it and keep him going with it on big guys like Knox or any other guy that is big, and not allow them to escpe, if he uses and most people escape, it will become a regular sleeper and the credibility of that one has been trashed as Hell.
I mean first, he needs to perform it in a way that is not commonly used, like when he uses it with scissors, giving the feeling of a rear naked choke, which is not, but will give a feel like it is.
Second, try not to allow a lot of people to use it and keep him going with it on big guys like Knox or any other guy that is big, and not allow them to escpe, if he uses and most people escape, it will become a regular sleeper and the credibility of that one has been trashed as Hell.
thegreatanurag900
Dark Match Jobber
I ACTUALLY DONT LIKE SLEEPER HOLD.BUT ATLEAST IT IS BETTER THAN HIS OTHER FINISHER.I THINK IT WOULD BE FUN TO SLEEPER ON LOCKING ON SMALLER GUYS LIKE EVAN BOURNE
Only if they restrict other wrestles from using it.The sleeper is use by other people all the time and it never put anyone away.If every one stop using it except Dolph it could be a real legit finisher.Also if they really wanted to push him he needs to lock it in on someone credible.Khali is not anywhere near important right now and Kane isn't going anywhere soon
Say he just jumped out and put someone like Jericho,edge,cena, or swagger(to some extent) to sleep.This would prove the move could change the world title game to fans and give it more support.but......In almost every WWE match their is moment were the heel or dominating wrestler is holding the face or whoever is losing in a submission.The sleeper is one of those moves.This is something very common which is why i don't see it changing.However i do believe they will let him put a main eventer to sleep but only after a few months and maybe a Mid-card title.
so I believe it's a toss up on the answer
Say he just jumped out and put someone like Jericho,edge,cena, or swagger(to some extent) to sleep.This would prove the move could change the world title game to fans and give it more support.but......In almost every WWE match their is moment were the heel or dominating wrestler is holding the face or whoever is losing in a submission.The sleeper is one of those moves.This is something very common which is why i don't see it changing.However i do believe they will let him put a main eventer to sleep but only after a few months and maybe a Mid-card title.
so I believe it's a toss up on the answer
Alex
King Of The Wasteland
I feel the only way to truly get it over is to personalize it, instead of making it a standard sleeper use some sort of innovation on it to make it different to a standard sleeper, the similarities will be there but differentiate it enough that other wrestlers can still use the standard sleeper. The sleeper hold has become so common that using it as a finisher is stupid, it would be the same if someone used a standard DDT as a finisher, a innovative DDT is fine, not a standard one.
You might want to brush up on your history there, dude. DiBiase's cobra clutch, the Million Dollar Dream, is a variation of a sleeper.
Wikipedia said:
That sounds a hell of a lot like a sleeper to me. The actual positioning varies, but, the concept behind it is the same. He puts it on, the ref raises his opponent's arm three times, if it drops three times, match over.
theundisputedY2D2
Dark Match Winner
I think that you could get even the most basic of moves over as a finisher provided that it puts everybody from the lowest of lowly jobbers to the biggest main eventers down for the 3 count or submission and the commentators sell it as being a devastating finisher.
With Ziggler's sleeper hold it's all well & good taking out the Great Khali & Josh Matthews but will it work on guys higher up the card? The real test comes when he puts it on the likes of Rey Mysterio, Edge and (dare I say it) the Undertaker.
The other problem is the fact that many others use or have used the move, and Ziggler doesn't apply it any differently to them. This makes everyone else who's used a sleeper look weak because they couldn't get it to work like he can. At least with another basic finisher like the Clothesline from Hell you can say that Bradshaw throws a clothesline with more force than others who use a basic clothesline in their matches. With Ziggler you can't say that he does anything different to those who have used the move before him, yet he's had much more success with the hold. As such, I would have had Ziggler use a slight variation of the move, and have the commentators pick up on it.
But yeah I think that WWE COULD easily get Dolph's sleeper over as being a credible finisher, but I don't think they WILL get it over. I reckon they'll either bottle it when it comes to him facing a main eventer, or else they'll lose interest in him before then and his push will end.
With Ziggler's sleeper hold it's all well & good taking out the Great Khali & Josh Matthews but will it work on guys higher up the card? The real test comes when he puts it on the likes of Rey Mysterio, Edge and (dare I say it) the Undertaker.
The other problem is the fact that many others use or have used the move, and Ziggler doesn't apply it any differently to them. This makes everyone else who's used a sleeper look weak because they couldn't get it to work like he can. At least with another basic finisher like the Clothesline from Hell you can say that Bradshaw throws a clothesline with more force than others who use a basic clothesline in their matches. With Ziggler you can't say that he does anything different to those who have used the move before him, yet he's had much more success with the hold. As such, I would have had Ziggler use a slight variation of the move, and have the commentators pick up on it.
But yeah I think that WWE COULD easily get Dolph's sleeper over as being a credible finisher, but I don't think they WILL get it over. I reckon they'll either bottle it when it comes to him facing a main eventer, or else they'll lose interest in him before then and his push will end.
Ruthless-RKO
F*ck Friends, Rather die wiv ma AK!
This could be the start of something new for Ziggler, aslong as he wins all his matches with this submission hold, and not give it a bad name, then it would work for him, I think he should win the intercontinental title with that hold at least at SummerSlam, i mean he was supposed to win that title last year around that time but the "E" jus gave up on him.
The sleeper hold can make him a bigger star and slowly it will.
The sleeper hold can make him a bigger star and slowly it will.
