Do you think TNA needs a REAL heel?

[RD_21]

Lately I have been discussing TNA with a lot of you. I REALLY enjoy the product and as a wrestling fan I want wrestling so TNA renewed my interest in wrestling that the WWE had almost kill.

With that said, like many I find the marks in the front row annoyins the best example being as many of you know the night where they chanted for ECW just to chant moment later for Fourtune as they were ambushing them from behind. Sure Fourtune is composed of some of the best TNA orginals but still their act was heelish.

I personally think that TNA needs a couple of REAL heel if they want people to be more invested in their product in the long run that way people want to see the major face kick his ass and the program sells good. Sure in my argument some people pointed to me that the Undertaker vs HBK matches sold a lot even if they were both faces but that's because they are both legend too.

With that said I know that TNA is more adult oriented and a federation followed by mark like myselves who enjoy wrestling more than the storyline but a good storyline never hurt my interest either. I also know that you can't have a heel calling the faces Piggy James or have a heel who is stealing from the cookie jar in TNA.

But I think it could still be possible to work TNA fans in a way that would make them hate an individual. One of my idea (and some of you may have heard me talk about it... well write) is that Fourtune with Flair could say that they have abandon all hope in TNA and that this place is a dump and he should have never come in the federation, that he has a contract and divorce to pay so he is still there honoring his contract but when his jail sentence his up he is out and going back to Connecticut and he is bringing his boy with him in a REAL federation where they will get the exposure they deserve.

I think that could be a good way to have them become big heel by attacking the product and federation that we like and eventually with real heel you could get a product that would be followed by non mark. To me it's just logic that you need a big heel to put more importance on your face. Like if the next Batman movie is Batman fighting low life thug with no big vilain I doubt it will be a success if you get what I mean.

But I know that it's hard to get the mark to play the way you want them to play (boo bad guy and cheer for face) but I still think they need to find a way to make it happen. Or they could have a wrestler who is keeping his in ring work limited on purpose so that people who want to see good wrestling would hate him?

So do you think that TNA NEEDS REAL heel?
And if so how would you make a big heel (Without having him being bisexual and uninteresting)?

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Whoa, a thread about TNA not made by a WWE mark in order to bash the company. I like it.

And I do agree with you and see exactly what you mean. In fact, I might be wrong, but I haven't seen a really despicable and demented heel in TNA or WWE for..well for a long, long time. The guy you just hate. You know he's good but you ignore it because that guy makes you wanna barf. When writing that I think of Paul Heyman during the invasion days. I remember his stupid ass theme and each time I heard it I wanted to vomit. Then he came out with that stupid smirk, all oily and greasy and was such a loudmouth, bleh, still makes me sick. But at the same time I new who Paulie was and how great he is and all of that.

But back to TNA. I think that one guy who could pull it off is Anderson. He was doing JUST fine when he came to TNA as a heel. He did some very nasty things, it was edgy, it was disgusting and for a moment I did start to get that feeling of him being repelling.

Another guy that I'd hate, well guyS - Hogan and Bischoff. Especially Bischoff. EZ.E as a face is like throwing puppies in a river and letting them drown ( who wants to kill that bitch ) - it's just wrong. It would be awesome of the tides turned, Hogan and Bischoff aligned with EV 2.0 to take TNA over for real. They'll be the heels and Fourtune will be the faces, or maybe even tweeners, who knows.

But as far as another -wrestler- goes, I feel like Matt Morgan can be good for that role. The arrogant, egotistical son of a bitch type of heel. He's already achieved it - I hate the guy.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

it's just like paul heyman said, wrestling is not complicated, you have a bad guy and a good guy, good guy wins, that's it. TNA is confusing itself let alone its fanbase with it's convoluted storylines and constant switching. All they need is to build up that super heel so that people will pay to see him lose. And then eventually you hit pay dirt when you have your top face beat him. It's so simple yet they are unable to do it.

 

[I_Am_Electro_Boy]

I think TNA and WWE need a true heel who everbody hates, because all the heels today get cheered for. I think either Mr Anderson or Matt Morgan could pull that role off, Mr Anderson has already been a true heel with TNA during his feud with Angle I think he really did cross the line so he could easily pull it off again. Matt Morgan could fit the role because he's a big guy and big guys can really get heat from the crowd easier than smaller guys.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

it's just like paul heyman said, wrestling is not complicated, you have a bad guy and a good guy, good guy wins, that's it. TNA is confusing itself let alone its fanbase with it's convoluted storylines and constant switching. All they need is to build up that super heel so that people will pay to see him lose. And then eventually you hit pay dirt when you have your top face beat him. It's so simple yet they are unable to do it.

- Convulted Storylines -​

Fourtune versus EV2.0 - ECW guys have a one last stand. They come out on the next night to thank the fans and Hogan for it. Fourtune comes out, beats the piss out of them - their motive being that EV2.0 are a bunch of old nobodies who have done nothing, are not wrestlers but instead a bunch of bingo hall fighters. They want to take TNA back. Fourtue is the future, EV2 is the past - they gotta go. EV2 gets pissed, starts smelling like old people - feud.

The Beautiful People versus Madison Rayne and Ta--Motorcycle Chick - Madison Rayne was the BP's henchwoman back in the day. Then she won the KO's title, got egotistical and selfish, eventually the BP's disbanded because of her. Now the original BP's are back ( Love and Sky ). Their motive - they both hate that bitch. Love is the Champion and Rayne is just jealous, Sky has got her back, Bug-Head has got Rayne's - feud.

Abyss' "They" - "They" are coming". "They" are taking TNA over. It could be Fourtune, it could be something else. Flair said that Fourtune's "they", I'm still not convinced. We'll see.

Nash/Sting and Double J - Nash and Sting are told to let go ( well, at least Nash ). They refuse to do so, so Double J being a face opposes the old farts who wouldn't step down...while being an old fart himself.

Kurt Angle's way to glory - If he loses - he's canned. What's so convulted about that?

Now that we've decoded the oh so confusing storylines out of the way, let's look at the CONSTANT switches between heel and face. If there are bright colors around you or something sparkly catches your focus, please come back to this thread in four and a half hours, because what you said just makes you look like a clueless little ****** with the attention span of a ten..fuck it, three years old.

First of all, cheeky chops, when you use the word "constant", use it right. Constant means "all the time", "non-stop". Write it down on your hand if you can't use your head. The last time a TNA Superstar has switched from heel to face was a few months ago, and it was Mr.Anderson. Everyone else has remained heel or face. AJ turned Heel in the beginning of the year, then it was Anderson turning face. Beer Money also switched from face to heel. Just recently Velvet Sky turned face as well. All of that happens in MONTHS time, considering that AJ has been a face for GOD knows how long, Sky has been a heel for GOD knows how long, Beer Money were faces for quite some time, and Mr.Anderson came in as a heel. No other heel/face turns occured in the last eight months ( again, correct me if I missed something ). Where are the constant heel turns? Where are the constant face turns?

Oh wait, excuse me, you mean that faces act as heels and heels act as faces? That load of midget shit? Okay, fair enough. WHO does that? Name the people, all of them, who don't act like faces/heels.

Thank you for your freakin' time.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

- Convulted Storylines -​

Fourtune versus EV2.0 - ECW guys have a one last stand. They come out on the next night to thank the fans and Hogan for it. Fourtune comes out, beats the piss out of them - their motive being that EV2.0 are a bunch of old nobodies who have done nothing, are not wrestlers but instead a bunch of bingo hall fighters. They want to take TNA back. Fourtue is the future, EV2 is the past - they gotta go. EV2 gets pissed, starts smelling like old people - feud.

The Beautiful People versus Madison Rayne and Ta--Motorcycle Chick - Madison Rayne was the BP's henchwoman back in the day. Then she won the KO's title, got egotistical and selfish, eventually the BP's disbanded because of her. Now the original BP's are back ( Love and Sky ). Their motive - they both hate that bitch. Love is the Champion and Rayne is just jealous, Sky has got her back, Bug-Head has got Rayne's - feud.

Abyss' "They" - "They" are coming". "They" are taking TNA over. It could be Fourtune, it could be something else. Flair said that Fourtune's "they", I'm still not convinced. We'll see.

Nash/Sting and Double J - Nash and Sting are told to let go ( well, at least Nash ). They refuse to do so, so Double J being a face opposes the old farts who wouldn't step down...while being an old fart himself.

Kurt Angle's way to glory - If he loses - he's canned. What's so convulted about that?

Now that we've decoded the oh so confusing storylines out of the way, let's look at the CONSTANT switches between heel and face. If there are bright colors around you or something sparkly catches your focus, please come back to this thread in four and a half hours, because what you said just makes you look like a clueless little ****** with the attention span of a ten..fuck it, three years old.

First of all, cheeky chops, when you use the word "constant", use it right. Constant means "all the time", "non-stop". Write it down on your hand if you can't use your head. The last time a TNA Superstar has switched from heel to face was a few months ago, and it was Mr.Anderson. Everyone else has remained heel or face. AJ turned Heel in the beginning of the year, then it was Anderson turning face. Beer Money also switched from face to heel. Just recently Velvet Sky turned face as well. All of that happens in MONTHS time, considering that AJ has been a face for GOD knows how long, Sky has been a heel for GOD knows how long, Beer Money were faces for quite some time, and Mr.Anderson came in as a heel. No other heel/face turns occured in the last eight months ( again, correct me if I missed something ). Where are the constant heel turns? Where are the constant face turns?

Oh wait, excuse me, you mean that faces act as heels and heels act as faces? That load of midget shit? Okay, fair enough. WHO does that? Name the people, all of them, who don't act like faces/heels.

Thank you for your freakin' time.

Dude, Eric Young doesn't ring a bell. First he is against the band, then with, then he has this strange angle where he is nuts? That's your mid-card pal.

Orlando Jordan? I don't even want to know what the hell he is doing. Taped nipples don't equal heels. Not one bit.

Heel, RVD go out with an injury instead of losing the belt? Now we have an all face tourney for the belts? Boring!!

Now, the one big free agent. The pure agent they have. The guy that can do the major role Desmonde Wolfe. The guy they should be pushing to the hills, is somewhere on the mid-card?!?!

Every month something gets switched in TNA. It's confusing.

Kevin Nash is a heel, then a face, then heel again. Oh, I'm keeping my facts straight as well son.

If you watched the chair shot reality. They even said it best. TNA is confusing, something always get switched around. It's bad Television.

 

[RD_21]

Yeah I forgot to mention it but I think that Anderson could turn heel at the 10.10.10 by screwing Angle out of his career he should cheat to win and say that he did it just because he could and to retire Angle he could also say that he let the stupid fans chant the stupids assholes catchphrase to get his way, I am sure he would get booed.

 

[klunderbunker]

The problem with this is that the Impact Zone crowd is going to cheer just about anyone put in front of them. Look back at some of the great heels: Harley Race, Ted DiBiase or HHH in 2000. The fans LOATHED those people. You wouldn't hear them getting cheered no matter where they went save for maybe one town each. In the Impact Zone, Fourtune, the lead heel group, gets cheered nearly every time they're out there no matter what they say or do. The ECW guys are the faces, but Fourtune beating them down got cheered. See the problem here? Even with a legit heel, he'd be treated like just an ok one, which is what stops this from working.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Dude, Eric Young doesn't ring a bell. First he is against the band, then with, then he has this strange angle where he is nuts? That's your mid-card pal.

Eric Young has not been on TNA television in over a month. His heel/face turns were a part of a storyline.

The other "strange angle" is called a gimmick. It's called a storyline. People change. Kofi Kingston was Jamaican, right? Noone bitched about that.

Grabbing for straws there? Cute.

Orlando Jordan? I don't even want to know what the hell he is doing. Taped nipples don't equal heels. Not one bit.

That's a gimmick numb nuts. People don't like him, THAT'S why he's a heel. He's repelling, and disgusting, heelish, and wants to touch other men. I'm homophobic, so I'll boo him.

Another straw? Oh how nice of you.

Heel, RVD go out with an injury instead of losing the belt? Now we have an all face tourney for the belts? Boring!!

..why am I even doing this. You are clearly brainless.

Now, the one big free agent. The pure agent they have. The guy that can do the major role Desmonde Wolfe. The guy they should be pushing to the hills, is somewhere on the mid-card?!?!

He's a number one contender for the tag-team titles with Brutus Magnus, a match at the Pay-Per-View. They're using him for something. How about the guys WWE pushed and forgot. Bourne? Ziggler? Morrisson? Kofi? Suck on that one.

- By the way, he should be pushed as singles guy, but isn't, because he's an ass backstage. They'd be idiots to push a guy like that.

Every month something gets switched in TNA. It's confusing.

What? They switched from High Ramp to Normal Ramp and you all of a sudden lost your mind trying to figure out how it happened?

Kevin Nash is a heel, then a face, then heel again. Oh, I'm keeping my facts straight as well son.

Nash has been a heel for months now, he barely had a face turn.

If you watched the chair shot reality. They even said it best. TNA is confusing, something always get switched around. It's bad Television.

And that concludes this verbal battle. Go ahead and believe The Chair Shot reality without watching the product. Everything you said right now you heard from other people, and you're just recycling it. Shove your head back in your ass and watch WWE.

 

[mikeyboy]

I think its a problem in WWE also, wrestling fans cheer whoever they want nowadays heel or face. So the answer to your quistion is yes, they do need a real heel, but so does WWE. The quistion is how do you go about creating one in todays wrestling climate.

 

[shattered dreams]

I do not see "a real heel" in WWE right now either and they are doing fine, so I am not sure it is exactly a requisite for success. The heel that everyone hates would be something nice to have but it is pretty much impossible to get everyone to hate someone that good at their job nowadays. I do agree with the person talking about hogan and bischoff as a possibility. Russo I bet could get a ton of heat. You have to pick people that have extremely negative reputations outside of kayfabe and use that. Otherwise there is no way to make a real heel in prowrestling anymore which is why it is a dying art. Cheap heat has been used beyond meaning anymore by WWE so it is not much of an option.

 

[WJDwjdWJDwjd]

I do not see "a real heel" in WWE right now either and they are doing fine, so I am not sure it is exactly a requisite for success.

Um... no clear cut heels? Does the name Vickie Guerrero ring a bell? How about that new Alberto del Rio guy? How about Nexus (at least Barrett, Otunga and Tarver... Slater and Gabriel are a bit tough to believe)? Sheamus gets a ton of boos also.

As for TNA, they don't have your usual "casual" wrestling fans like WWE does. Thats why there are a lot of people cheering for what are supposed to be clear cut heels like AJ Styles, Beer Money and Matt Morgan. If TNA wants to change this, they need to get more of an audience... and better booking and storyline. This EV 2.0 crap is terrible.

 

[realdealasshole]

First, to be fair to TNA, I think almost all their storylines are still in the process of fully unfolding to where characters will be officially identified as full fledged face and full fledged heel. Right now is a transitional period. Sure, it's not as good as it should be, but it's entertaining for now.

Anyways, as far as who could be a true heel. Here are my picks:
Mr. Anderson: He's done it before. But he could also be a full fledged face. Either way he's gonna be great, but I feel he should be a heel for his first title reign.

Pope: Just like Anderson, he'll be gold as face or heel. I really want him to be the top heel in the company. He would definitely be easy to hate if he tried. In fact, I think a turn could be coming soon.

Matt Morgan: The guy is just easily hated. Just give him the character he has now and let him take out some top faces and that's that. Easy.

 

[rondiesel2005]

you see a guy like Anderson should have stayed heel, because he did a great feud with Kurt Angle which in fact is one of my favorite feud in TNA and then they made him take out The Pope and then have a little feud with Jeff Hardy then goes to being a face. Am i missing something here because why would they make him go face when the fans are expecting him to feud with The Pope?? can anybody explain that to me??

i was not surprise when Fortune came out they got cheered am assuming that the fans aren't really on EV2 side for now. TNA needs to have like a 5 month plan or 6 month plan where they got Heels set and faces set that doesn't go back and forth because it makes things really confusing and leaves too many unanswered questions

I would rather have Anderson be a top heel for TNA for now

 

[hatehabsforever]

TNA most definitely are in desperate need of a true heel, someone who you absolutely have to boo no matter what. WWE has lots of clear cut heels. The Nexus are the ultimate in heel factions today. Sheamus is a definite heel, as is Alberto del Rio. Drew McIntyre, while a little suckish, is a clear cut heel. Jericho is clearly a heel (although it would't take much to flip him back to the face side of the equation). Vickie Guerrero draws more heel heat than almost anyone. SES, especially Punk, are clear cut heels.

TNA doesn't have this clear cut heel. They have Styles, but while he's a tremendous athlete and an excellent wrestler, he's a lousy heel because no matter what he does, he gets cheered by the fans in the iMAPCT zone and elsewhere. They have the rest of Fourtune, who spend their time beating up the old farts from EV2.0, which lessens their heelishness (new word!). You have Nash and Sting, except no one, including the TNA brass, knows where the hell that's all leading.

You have Samoa Joe, but he doesn't come across to me as a true heel, but rather, as an angry young man who's pissed off because the 24 hour drive thru at Burger King is closed. There's Abyss, but the only problem with him is that he sucks and his character was ruined a few months ago. Anderson flips back and forth, Wolfe is under-utilized, and on and on it goes.

They need a clear cut heel, someone that the fans of TNA and their wrestlers can really rally against. Whether you like the Nexus or not, they achieve this desired result. Until they can better establish clearer distinction between good and evil in TNA, the product will continue to be wishy washy and the results will be compromised as a result.

 

[shattered dreams]

Alberto del Rio is a top heel that everyone rallies against And we are the ones that consistently get called marks, go figure? Put WWE in a small arena with some smarks and I guarantee you punk, jericho etc. get some cheers as well. That in no way means they are not heels or anything ******ed like that. That is simply a reality of the modern wrestling fan. Also, will people get over that whole ev2 fourtune segment. Why is it so hard to understand that was purposely booked for ambiguous cheering not some textbook clear face vs clear heel?

 

[realdealasshole]

you see a guy like Anderson should have stayed heel, because he did a great feud with Kurt Angle which in fact is one of my favorite feud in TNA and then they made him take out The Pope and then have a little feud with Jeff Hardy then goes to being a face. Am i missing something here because why would they make him go face when the fans are expecting him to feud with The Pope?? can anybody explain that to me??

i was not surprise when Fortune came out they got cheered am assuming that the fans aren't really on EV2 side for now. TNA needs to have like a 5 month plan or 6 month plan where they got Heels set and faces set that doesn't go back and forth because it makes things really confusing and leaves too many unanswered questions

I would rather have Anderson be a top heel for TNA for now

My guess (and I am in no way commending TNA for this, nor am i sure I'm completely against it) is that they're planning to have a Pope v. Anderson match with them switching roles. Anderson as the face, Pope as the heel. That is about the only explanation I could think of for Anderson's heel turn coming out of nowhere.

 

[DangerousDave]

The problem with this is that the Impact Zone crowd is going to cheer just about anyone put in front of them.

In the Impact Zone you will find a mix of wrestling fans and tourist. They get the audience all hyped up by promising DVD's and trips back stage for the loudest people. BTW, Ive never seen anyone go backstage, but they do give away a lot of DVD's. Most of the tourist don't know who to cheer for so they cheer for everyone trying to be the loudest fan.

In the Impact Zone, Fourtune, the lead heel group, gets cheered nearly every time they're out there no matter what they say or do. The ECW guys are the faces, but Fourtune beating them down got cheered. See the problem here? Even with a legit heel, he'd be treated like just an ok one, which is what stops this from working.

Fortune gets cheered for many reasons. Ric Flair, the greatest of all time. AJ, the face of TNA. Beer Money a great tag team. Williams X Division champ. Kazarian, not so much, but there are people that like him. Morgan always gets booed by everyone but me, I love his smile after he squashes someone.

I think the main reason Fortune is cheered these days is because they are trying to get rid of the "over the hill gang", EV2. If you check WZ most people hate these guys and they have no place in TNA. Most of the hardcore TNA fans look at EV2 as heels for taking air time away from the real TNA guys. The sooner they are gone the better off TNA will be. They are also against DIxie for bringing these clowns into TNA in the first place. Fortune is against Hogan and Bishoff who are also hated by many, so the cheers for Fortune are justified.

About the only "super heel" in the company is Matt Morgan, one of my favorites. He gets booed every time he comes to the ring. Look for Anderson to be a "super heel" too after 10/10/10 when he cheats to beat Angle. I have always been a fan of heels, and I think that the more mature audience of TNA has a lot of heel lovers. Some will cheer a wrestler regardless of whether he is a heel or not. I Like AJ, heel or face, but better as a heel. As long as there is friction between two wrestlers in a match it doesn't matter if they are heel or face.

 

[Rayne]

Also, will people get over that whole ev2 fourtune segment. Why is it so hard to understand that was purposely booked for ambiguous cheering not some textbook clear face vs clear heel?

Ugh, again with the excuses for bad writing.

Professional wrestling writing is supposed to evoke passion and emotion. Those are the life blood of the industry; as the saying goes, it's better to be hated than ignored. Are you seriously trying to claim that this whole feud is booked around getting the fans confused who to cheer for? That it's not bad writing, but it's just writing that's too complex for most of the audience to understand? (BTW- that's also bad writing.)

Writing for professional wrestling is a really simple thing that stupid people feel they have to reinvent every few years or so. There are lots of stupid people employed as writers in professional wrestling. The gist of it is that the guy everyone likes eventually beats the guy everyone hates. John Cena has his detractors, but listening to the pop he gets when his music hits, the fans aren't having much trouble deciding which side of the equation he's on. (I'd use an example from TNA, but besides Kurt Angle they really don't have anyone who's really popping the crowd right now.) There's room for a "heel" that the fans like in that equation; look at the original nWo, before all of WCW started joining.

If a storyline is booked with the idea of "ambiguous cheering", it's already dead in the water, like this EV2.0/Fortune angle is. "Ambiguous cheering" means that fans aren't being given anything to be passionate about, and aren't giving fans a reason to tune in next week.

Good God does TNA need a real heel. I thought it would be AJ, but I didn't realize how bad he'd suck in the role of top heel. I've always been a believer that fans don't go to see the good guy win; they go to see the bad guy get his comeupance. It's like WCW in 1997; the bad guys never lose. Only in TNA, it's because there are no bad guys, only a collection of guys playing the role of "bad guy".

 

[waylon p]

Once upon a time, the wrestling industry was dominated by bad, bad heels and good, good babyfaces. those days were on the declining edge throughout the 90's. that was too simple for the smarts, the smarks, and national television audiences, once kayfabe was broken.

along came paul heyman, who saw this to be true. "how does one capitalize on this?" i'm sure he asked himself. the answer seems to have been to create a promotion where everyone was what would be known as "tweeners" in an effort to allow the audience to decide who they wanted to cheer for, without having to shove any character's alignment down the audience's throats.

this worked, to a certain extent. unfortunately, this factor and others allowed the more "hardcore" and vocal fans dictate almost everthing going on in the ring. the audience began to enjoy this power, so when wwf initiated the "attitude era" a much larger audience got a taste of this power, refusing to cheer based on what they were being fed, rather, to pick heroes based on criteria that they chose. a notable result was stone cold.

tna has decided to got the "don't paint our characters strongly one way or the other, let the audience sort it out" strategy going, but the result is that the tna audience is cheering anyone who is awesome. problem is, nearly everyone in tna is awesome, so who do you feud with whom?

hopefully, this "they" they keep talking about will set things right. create a clearer demarcation between the faces and the heels. somehow, i doubt it. but i'm rooting for them. i understand why they tried what they did, and honestly, at first, i thought it was fantastic idea. the audience just did not give the expected results....q'uell suprise!