Do We Really Need Women Wrestlers

[TUFFY54]

A few weeks ago I had the misfortune of watching an episode of the Divas NXT. It was a very special event to me because I was actually able to watch the worst match in WWE history. Having watched wrestling for 20 years, I belive I can say that the match between Kelly Kelly and Alica Fox was the most horrific thing I have ever seen occur in a wrestling ring. It was beyond pathetic. It made Hornswaggel and Chavo look like Flair Steamboat from 89. The only match I can think of that might have been worse was one also featuring a few Divas from about 8 years ago. I would bet money that you could go to any high school in the country, take a couple cheerleaders, and they could put on a better match with an hours instruction beforehand. The WWE just needs to do away with the womens division. I know a lot of you are going to be mad and say, "what about Lita, Trish, Mickie James, Gail Kim, and Victoria! They could really go" Yes they could, I'll completley agree with that. But we all know that there gone, or not being used anymore, and theres no one under contract that could even lace their boots.

The WWE needs women in wrestling. They dont need women wrestlers. Heres what I'm saying, I dont hate the Divas. I think they could add a lot to the show. Just use them as Divas, managers, valets, whatever you want to cal them. You can still have them wrestle in the occasional glorified catfight when they have an on air beef, but stop pretending its a legitamite division. Its embarassing.

Any fan thats a little older will remember how great the Divas of the 90's were. Sunny, Sable, Stephanie, Chyna, Debra, Tori, Stacey Kebler, Lita, Trish. They made Raw and Smackdown great, and were huge parts of the show. However, they knew what they were there for. They filled the void of T and A, and gave a great rub to wrestlers that needed it. Yes they did have occasional matches, but it was a comedy title and the WWE aknowledged it. Anyone that wants to argue for Trish and Lita is looking back through rose colored glasses. Yes they could go in the ring, but half over every match Trish Stratus wrestled in was Bra and Panties or Evening Gown, and Lita was already incredibly over as part of Team Extreme before she ever won a womens title.

To sum it up, heres what bugs me about it. Women like Beth Phonix and Gail Kim are capable of putting on great matches for a women and they are called Divas. The Bella Twins and Kelly Kelly funcion primarly as hosts and arm candy and are also called Divas. If they are that diffrent, one of them is going by the wrong name. You would never hear someone refer to Josh Mathews and Michael Cole as WWE superstars do you?

 

[Ferbian]

Yes we do need women wrestlers. There's no appeal to being one of the girls that grows up watching wrestling if you can't picture yourself being in the ring like one of them. If we just keep them around for the sake of keeping them around as valets etc. Then you confirm the very fact that they're nothing more than eye-candy. That's not something that will appeal to everybody. The men will like it, but the females and the young girls won't necessarily find any appeal in knowing there's nothing other than being looked at like skimpy dressed sex symbols.

Like I once said in a thread about keeping the women's title around (Or women's division, either way) there's no need to remove it. Because of the very fact that they just as well as the men had, or have some sort of dream of making it big in WWE, TNA, wherever as a diva, knockout, whatever. It's all about being able to dream to reach that goal, and it draws people in to watch it because they know they can aspire to become like them.

They, just as well as the men are partially role models for the younger crowd. They're proof that anyone can accomplish their dreams. Taking away the wrestling aspect of female WWE employees ruins a major part of the whole "accomplishing your dreams". Because in the end, I seriously doubt ANYBODY wants to become a WWE valet, and know that is all you'll ever be.

So, yes we do need women wrestlers. Because even if we don't all like watching it, they're just as big a part of professional wrestling as the men.

 

[TUFFY54]

Ferbian, I get what your saying, but I have to disagree with the fact that no one would want to grow up to be a valet. Good female valets/managers have been some of the most celebrated people in wrestling history. Miss Elizabeth, Sherri, Woman, Sunny, Sable. All of these women were loved by the crowds and played huge roles in magor matches when they would do something like put a brick in their purse and hit someone with it. The crowd would go nuts. The problem is that today the WWE doesnt have anyone like like. They either wrestle in a riduculous match, or just stand there and smile with the guest host. Every young girl wanted to be Lita when she was with Team Extreme, and she wasnt an official wrestler at that point. It would be like saying no one would ever want to be Bobby Heenan, Jimmy Hart, or Jim Cornette. Most of the time they stole the show from the wrestlers they were managing.

For your other point. I understand what your saying about female role models, but the WWE is already messing that up. For a woman, the Divas title is the most important thing in the world. It is the equivalent to the the WWE or World Heavyweight Championship. It means your the best female wrestler in the world. Now if your a ten year old girl sitting the audiance, dont you think you would find it a litte odd that Randy Orton didn't have to defend his title in a wet T-shirt water gun on a pole beach blast match. I'd say that sends a bit of mixed signal right there. Have you ever seen a Wrestlemania main event where the WWE title was defended in a tuxedo match? I'll give you an alternative. Instead of unifieing the womens belts, they should have made the Divas title a comedy belt for comedy matches, and kept a womens title for real wrestlers. Let kelly kelly and laycool swap belts in evening gown matches, and let Gail Kim, Beth Phonix, and Natalia wrestle for a real belt.

 

[Ferbian]

Ferbian, I get what your saying, but I have to disagree with the fact that no one would want to grow up to be a valet. Good female valets/managers have been some of the most celebrated people in wrestling history. Miss Elizabeth, Sherri, Woman, Sunny, Sable. All of these women were loved by the crowds and played huge roles in magor matches when they would do something like put a brick in their purse and hit someone with it. The crowd would go nuts. The problem is that today the WWE doesnt have anyone like like. They either wrestle in a riduculous match, or just stand there and smile with the guest host. Every young girl wanted to be Lita when she was with Team Extreme, and she wasnt an official wrestler at that point. It would be like saying no one would ever want to be Bobby Heenan, Jimmy Hart, or Jim Cornette. Most of the time they stole the show from the wrestlers they were managing.

Sure there's been great valets. Yet it doesn't change the fact that there's a much bigger focus on female wrestlers now. That's what the WWE crowd is watching, not valets or managers or anything. Because they're practically gone. Would you want to grow up and become a part of what is already a dying breed? If it's even there at all?

Professional female wrestlers is where it lies when it comes to becoming a part of professional wrestling as a female. It's an undeniable fact that if you want into WWE as a female, you'll have to be a wrestler. You watch all these different type of girls wrestling, though all beautiful ones (To some extend, I'm sure WWE would like them all to be promoted as beautiful, I could find some examples against that).

However what really matters is the fact that female wrestlers is what is being promoted as the thing for girls in professional wrestling. And it will remain to be that, both due to the fact that we can't just alienate an entire division with so many employees who already wanted to grow up and become wrestlers. As well as we can't alienate the crowd who wants to become the next generation of these female wrestlers.

For your other point. I understand what your saying about female role models, but the WWE is already messing that up. For a woman, the Divas title is the most important thing in the world. It is the equivalent to the the WWE or World Heavyweight Championship. It means your the best female wrestler in the world. Now if your a ten year old girl sitting the audiance, dont you think you would find it a litte odd that Randy Orton didn't have to defend his title in a wet T-shirt water gun on a pole beach blast match. I'd say that sends a bit of mixed signal right there.

That's true. Yet they're not acknowledging it as quite simply being eye-candy. They're acknowledging it as their way of female competition. Even if they haven't had these ridiculous segments anymore. The female wrestlers still get in-ring action. They get time on the show, something everyone would most likely love to try at least once in their life. Why take that away?

Have you ever seen a Wrestlemania main event where the WWE title was defended in a tuxedo match? I'll give you an alternative. Instead of unifieing the womens belts, they should have made the Divas title a comedy belt for comedy matches, and kept a womens title for real wrestlers. Let kelly kelly and laycool swap belts in evening gown matches, and let Gail Kim, Beth Phonix, and Natalia wrestle for a real belt.

First of all, why would they want to have the most exciting and best part of the women's division wrestle comedy acts and not be the focal point of the division? And give the spotlight to the less interesting and less exciting one? Laycool deserves to be among the true women's division just as much, if not more due to the fact that they actually make it interesting.

There's no reason to try and balance the female and male division in any way. Because they've never been equal. Without any public acknowledgment of it in any way WWE obviously sets their male dominate divisions higher than anything, as they should. But it doesn't mean they should alienate another aspect of what has existed in professional wrestling for so long - The Women's division.

 

[TUFFY54]

You make a good argument Ferbian. However I think you misunderstood me about the two seperate belts. I meant it more in the vein of having the Divas title an "Intercontinental title" and the Womens championship be the "heavyweight title". (even though no woman would want to be called the heavyweight champion, haha) It they did this, then you could use the girls that simply havent developed the skills needed to be great in the ring get exposure with the lighthearted Divas title. Once they had develped their skills and gotten exposure, they could wrestle for the Womens Championship. It would really be the same way the mens titles work.

 

[Ferbian]

You make a good argument Ferbian. However I think you misunderstood me about the two seperate belts. I meant it more in the vein of having the Divas title an "Intercontinental title" and the Womens championship be the "heavyweight title". (even though no woman would want to be called the heavyweight champion, haha) It they did this, then you could use the girls that simply havent developed the skills needed to be great in the ring get exposure with the lighthearted Divas title. Once they had develped their skills and gotten exposure, they could wrestle for the Womens Championship. It would really be the same way the mens titles work.

Yet it would make no sense. There's nowhere near enough time to feature all the divas in the manner that they would actually be able to run "two" divisions for the women. Sure they've had the diva and women's championship featured at the same time before. But it was on two separate shows, where as this would be 2 belts spreading across 2 shows. It wouldn't make sense to have both belts around. Especially not since one of them would become prioritized as the superior belt, and it would be featured more on one show than the other where the champion belongs. It would become a mistreat of the shows women division in the way that you would say the shows divas are less.

Featuring one belt on both shows helps in that manner. Keeping two belts around however does not. Especially not considering the fact that the divas shouldn't even be getting that much time to work around 2 belts of 2 divisions.

So, once again. There's no need to remove it, to remove or add any belt or anything. It's actually fine where it is. Sure it could need a bit of something refreshing, but neither a belt extra or anything like that will fix it.

 

[ultraviolence]

I have to agree with you on one thing, that NXT Divas show is such shit! I also have to agree with Joey Styles, who cares.

However, that said, WWE needs woman's wrestling. It's a good break from all the dudes in there underwear, and I've seen lots of good Diva Matches. There is a lot of filler on the roster, I don't need to name any names, you know who I'm talking about, but seriously, tell me you don't like seeing chicks fight and I will call you a liar.

 

[RobL15]

Yes, definitely.

No-one has truly mentioned it, but TNA has a lot to potential in their Knockouts Division, and they do show it every week, well nearly.
WWE needs a lot of work, they actually need Female Wrestlers, not good looking girls. Otherwise, it's just a fail in my eyes.

 

[Genius_Deadman]

we miss genuine women wrestlers like Madusa, Bull Nakano, and so on right now. all the "divas" are just the same person, no personality, no gimmick. Chyna had a gimmick before she became generic. the problem with the divas is the same problem with the WWE wrestlers, they're all "real" guys and no gimmick at all.

they do need women overall though, to bring a different flavor to the event. you can't have a lot of a good thing or it becomes watered down. but if you have a little bit of everything, you're giving everyone at least a little something they want, instead of just focusing on one crowd.

 

[Klown_Karnage]

Yes, yes, absolutely yes. We need women in wrestling, not just because of the whole gender-equality thing and to keep the female demographic, but also because (if one is paying attention rather than dismissing anything with breasts from being credible as a fighter) the female fighters add a very different dynamic and technique to their matches. That is, when they are allowed to do so which is not all that often in the WWE and becoming less and less in TNA. I have to say it, the reason women wrestlers are precieved as weak is that they've been weakened by their own promotions to prevent them from outshining the steadily older and slower male superstars.

To be honest, female wrestlers are capable of great things, but thus far they've been held back and used primarily as filler and *********ion fodder for teenage boys. Also, at least in the WWE, Diva personality is subdued to the point that several Divas have gone years without a speaking role. Furthermore, in the case of most divas, can anyone truly define what their gimmick is beyond "swimsuit model"? Probably not. The most dominant among the divas at this time have to share a title between them and are acting like a couple of middle-schoolers. Does this say dominant? Maryse could fart in their general direction and knock them over.

In the case of TNA, the situation is somewhat better. There are a few knockouts left that actually have a discernible gimmick and are actually getting mic time on occasion. Still, the days of female wrestlers being able to main event a PPV are over and shall never return, not because the wrestlers aren't good enough, but because the promoters want to make sure the men always stay on top.

In conclusion, while the wrestling promotions may always treat the female wrestlers as second-class and make sure they always appear that way to the audience, they're not stupid enough to get rid of the female division entirely. Although it may not be the reason most commonly mentioned (except in whispers to each other) I'd reckon at least twenty to thirty percent of men tune in to wrestling shows to see scantily clad women fighting each other.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

Hate to sound bad, but Women's wrestling never made a huge splash in the wrestling world.

In fact unless they were wearing sexy clothing, I would usually just change the channel. I found it boring, and yea, some could work the mic, and some couldn't. Kick ass chicks are alright to an extent, but after awhile they get boring.

Now, should they make them managers. Yes!!!! A lot of young talent needs that extra exposure that a sexy hot diva can supply. I mean, Zac Ryder needs a girl by his side again, It would really make his image look valuable. I don't see anything great about making Kelly Kelly a great diva wrestling. No one is going to remember her as a wrestler, but as a sex symbol. Might as well but that Sex Symbol with somebody who needs that extra push. You can pair her up MVP who actually needs something to get his career going again.

Hell, I know sound bad for saying that about womeon's wrestlers, but they aren't big draws. I mean, the only big thing that a female character sold, was Tomb Raider, and that was just because she had huge jugs, and kids could buy it.

If you look at comic books, the only one that could sell, was Wonder Women! The rest of the Women Super Heros couldn't last that long. Always failed, didn't help people out.

So, do we need women wrestlers. Not really, I mean, your never going to find a women wrestling that would be as good as the Rock or Stone Cold. They are just fillers, and Fillers I don't need.

 

[fenfool]

ROH is putting on a pretty good product, and they very sparingly use women as wrestlers. The infrequency makes it more of a special attraction when they do have them, and they use women who can work, not just T&A. I enjoy watching Gail Kim, Awesome Kong, Roxxi, Tara, Mickie James...a few others, they can get pretty innovative and fun to watch, but at the moment, none of the big companies are that interested in putting them in a ring and just letting them work. If they disappeared from the WWE and TNA right now, I don't think it would affect the bottom line in the least. It's like any wrestler, if you don't use them right, they become irrelevant. So right now, I don't think either company does need women as wrestlers, they way they are currently used. That being said, they do have a place in professional wrestling, they just need a creative that can find it.

 

[sTyLnK]

Well yeah we do because some wrestlers over the years have been very good. IE Trish Stratus,Victoria etc. It's no different then male wrestlers. There are some pretty damn bad male wrestlers as well...it's just that there are more bad female wrestlers then good. lol.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

In my opinion, not really. That's not to say that there haven't been and aren't some women out there that are good wrestlers, but their overall impact is negligible in my view.

The WWE gets a lot of heat, deservedly so for several reasons, because of the Divas. While there are a good number of Divas on the roster that can put forth good wrestling matches, most of them simply aren't given the necessary time to put one out. There are also virtually no feuds among the Divas, mostly just matches. LayCool/Mickie James & LayCool/Natalya are really the only two distinct feuds to come out of the WWE Divas over a period of many years.

As has been brought up, women's wrestling has never been a draw historically and that's not likely to change. If the WWE ultimately did away with the Divas in terms of wrestling inside the ring, I don't believe that most fans would care. They could still find a role for them that involved showing off their gorgeous faces and dynamite bodies as that's mostly what sums of the Divas anyhow.

As to other wrestling companies, in all honesty, I think it'd be pretty much the same. Women's wrestling has always been something of a novelty attraction in wrestling rather than being a substantially impactful aspect of the product.

I'm not really a big fan of women's wrestling. However, if you're going to put women in wrestling situations on television, I'd prefer to have quality women's wrestling than what the Divas do about 90% of the time.

 

[eXtreme Hart]

Is women's wrestling needed? Yes, it's like Ferbian said to some women they are role models. We want to do moonsaults like Lita, pull of a sharpshooter like Natayla not escort Ravishing Rick Rude for life. Then of course there is gender equality and all that jazz.

However, do we need women's wrestling like what WWE is giving us now? No. Watching NXT is painful. The way they treat the show is disrespectful. The way Cole, Styles, and everyone else dogs those girls week in and out is disrespectful. Those women came to wrestle not be treated as jokes.

The Diva's on Raw and Smackdown have no use. There is talent on the roster but are they used right? No, only three or four Diva's are used at a time and everyone else is backup. There was a time when female wrestlers were treated with more respect. Sure there were moments of humiliation (Trish barking for Vince, Lita and her miscarriage storyline etc.) but they were also given chances to shine with street fights and built up (sometimes incredibly intense) feuds. It's sad to watch a quick THREE minute TEN Diva battle royal week in and week out.

I don't want little girls to aspire to that.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I would bet money that you could go to any high school in the country, take a couple cheerleaders, and they could put on a better match with an hours instruction beforehand.

Or better still, let them do it without an hours' instruction beforehand. One of the problems with women's wrestling in WWE is that the matches are 100% scripted. If the girls were simply allowed to go at each other without having their moves planned out earlier, it would be a better contest. Certainly, it would be more honest and authentic looking.

Face it, women's wrestling will never be as visually pleasing as men's. (I said the wrestling....not the person doing the wrestling). We're built differently. For one thing, a man's center of gravity is across his shoulders while a women's center of gravity is across her hips. This is one reason why women throwing punches looks so phony.

The woman who throws the most realistic looking punch is Beth Phoenix.....and the reason why is because she has better upper body development than the other divas. Still, her punches don't look as authentic as a guys' and they never will.

That a woman's center of gravity is through her hips is another reason why we've never seen a woman deliver a dropkick that was worth a damn. Usually, her dropkick lands on her opponent's stomach.

We're built differently, I'm telling you. Some of the differences in build please you guys very much, right? But when it comes to wrestling, let the girls do what they do as best they can. That's all you get.

It's physiological, dudes.

 

[Tech N9ne]

I have to agree with Ferbian. Even if it is just for one fact he pointed out (To be fair he pointed out many I agree with).

I think the point he made of having a female fan watching at home and having someone in the business to look up to and want to be like, as far as in the ring, is a great thing.

Obviously we wouldn't want our daughters aspiring to be one of the characters that are acting ****ty or devious. Which is part of the reason WWE is PG. Role Models are easier to get behind, when they are politically correct. But the point should be taken at face value.

Girls that watch a woman, or girl, such as herself, display athleticism and hold up a title that says she is the best at what she does, creates a positive outlook on the business, and sports in general.

Plus, in a business sense, it adds/keeps a fan base that might not be there if the women wrestling, weren't. There are also guys that like to watch nice looking women wrestle and fight, so it also keeps/adds that.

Not to say anything bad about women in wrestling that don't wrestle. But to add to the route I took in my point of why we need them to wrestle. I need to shed a little negative light on them just being valets.

It is a much more negative thing for woman to just be there to serve a purpose for a man. That isn't what I would want my daughters to become. If you look at the early days of Randy Savage and Elizabeth. She would constantly cower to him and would even flinch when he would get wild in his promos. At times, it was pretty pathetic looking.

I am not bashing any woman that get into wrestling to be eye candy or a valet. To each his/her own. In my opinion and in my situation, having daughters. I would much rather them have the woman wrestlers to look at and emulate, then a chick in a bathing suit, at the beach. Or having them think the only way they could ever win a match, is if it was a Bra & Panties Match!

 

[Dagger Dias]

Well, WWE actually does need women wrestlers. Female WRESTLERS. The only ones they have are Natalya and Beth Phoenix. The rest are just there. They can't wrestle and we all know it. They should hire women who actually know how to wrestle and focus less on how they look. That would make people care about the division again due to there being legitimate contenders if that were to happen. That's what the problem is. We are wrestling fans who tune in to see a show about WRESTLING so they need women wrestlers but 2 or 3 don't make a division when all the rest can't wrestle to save their lives. So I agree that WWE absolutely needs women WRESTLERS.