Do we know too much?

[giblet55]

I've been a wrestling fan ever since I was 5 years old when my dad ordered Wrestlemania 2 on pay per view. Oddly enough, the only match I have memories of watching was the twenty man battle royal ending with Andre eliminating Bret Hart(I believe this was when I became a Bret Hart fan growing up). I still laugh when I think about Andre grabbing Neidhart's goatee and smashing his head into Harts. Enough reminiscing.

Back then and for many more years to come, we as fans only knew what we watched on television each week or on pay per view. Unless you were close to someone in the wrestling business, you only knew what they wanted you to know. Wrestling hotlines popped up, but what kid could afford those? As time progressed, wrestling evolved, and the internet started to find it's way into everybody's household. Then we started to learn more about behind the scenes. Kayfabe would eventually be broken.

The more we learned about wrestling, the real vs fake, how moves were performed, how they protected each other in the ring, how they communicate in the ring, what certain gestures by referee's meant, heels, faces and tweeners...the more wrestling lost it's mystique.

I'll get to my point. Do you feel that we, as fans, know too much about the wrestling industry? Granted...most of it may be second hand, questionable knowledge, but it's more than we had several years ago. Do you feel it skews our perspective of the product, of the WWE's goals or objectives? Do you feel it makes us unappreciative of what they do day in and day out? Do you think that knowing about faces, heels, tweeners, how story lines are constructed, changes how difficult or easy it is for them to entertain us?

Do you feel it was better...when we knew less?

 

[RkoMachine]

Oh absolutely! We've known too much for a while now, and things have steadily declined since. I find that when i stay off the sites and just watch the product I tend to enjoy it alot more. The problem is its very hard to stay off the sites

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Knowledge can skew your enjoyment of pro wrestling if you let it. Frankly, FAR too many internet fans do allow it to skew their enjoyment.

For instance, you'll often hear complaints about how wrestling has become too "predictable"; yet look at how many of those same people surf the net for spoilers to upcoming TV shows, upcoming feuds, pushes, angles, storylines, title runs, etc. Something can't be "unpredictable" when you purposely seek out information that will render the idea of unpredictability completely moot?

If you're someone who is still willing to suspend disbelief and at least try to enjoy what you're watching, or watch with the hopes of being entertained, instead of trying to play armchair booker; then it's much easier to enjoy yourself.

 

[#heel420]

Definitely. Now I only dream of the days I could just watch and enjoy wrestling without scratching my head for hours thinking about why they go a certain direction or push certain superstars. It all seemed so much easier when I was 5 years old and thought wrestling was 100% real.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

In all honesty, the problem isn't about knowing too much, is thinking that we really know. Newsflash boys and girls, we quite frankly don't know jackshit about what REALLY goes on in the wrestling world. The internet has given the illusion that we do. Years ago in the pre-internet craze, we had the Wrestling Observer which set out to get inside the "world of wrestling" and inform its fanbase of the goings on. In my honest opinion, I feel that it's sad that we as a whole here in the IWC tend to let what we think really goes on cloud our judgment and objectivity about the wrestling world. I mean that's not to say that things that we hear about don't happen sometimes. But anything and everything is subject to hyperbole, exaggeration, misinformation and just outright BS on many occasions. For all we know much of what is said and done behind the scenes might very well be a tactic employed by the those on the inside to get us ranting and raving about things.

For instance, these shoot interviews that Kayfabe Commentaries and RF Video make money on, sometimes I truly wonder how on the level these interviews are. Not to say they are not entertaining and that there isn't any truth to them. But considering the root of what wrestling is, I sincerely doubt that 100 percent truth is really present in these accounts. Not that I don't believe in the whole adage of "it's so crazy it has to be true" but at other times I also know that you don't really tell a good story or make any money from it by being completely "honest". You need look no further than supposed honest media outlets like the news whether it be in print, television or internet form. I can't tell you how many times I've seen such bullshit in that particular arena. Let's just say the lead up to the 2012 Presidential race was enough to reinforce my opinion of that.

So if I can't rely on the real world giving me a true story on a consistent basis, why and how would I be stupid enough to expect that from something as trivial as professional wrestling?

But personally speaking, my true dispassion for wrestling these days isn't the smarks ruining things for me. It's the business itself, the lack of a true competitor to do what WCW did, despite the faults that promotion had I truly do feel that there's stuff they did that's better than some of the WWE's best offerings the past few years. Not to mention, the fact that insider terms are even used on the air, I remember Kevin Nash a couple years back using the word "booked" and then years earlier he referred to himself as a mark along with Scott Hall and Hulk Hogan when the nWo came to the WWF.

After all, I'm fine with the rabbit being pulled out of the hat when it comes to revealing the inner workings of things. I see that often when watching documentaries on my favorite movies. But when I'm watching the actual movie I prefer not to see how the trick is being done, I just like to see it all stay within the confines of the story. However, with wrestling it seems that even during the show the lines of reality and fantasy get blurred too much over the past several years that I find it just ridiculous and stupid. I completely abhor worked shoots and the notion of them give the know it all idiots on these forums and others false credence in their supposed "expert knowledge" of the business.

At the end of the day, we'd all be better off just realizing we don't really know what we think we do and it'd also be nice if the WWE product wouldn't encourage such a mentality. But then again maybe that's the way it has to be now, sadly enough.

But sure as hell it's not the way I and I'm sure several other fans think it should be.

 

[GDN8615]

ive been thinking about doing something for along time, take 3 months off of checking out the dirt sheets, just to see if they do anything that will surprise me or shock me, been thinking about from before rumble to wrestlemania, dont check out anything just watch

 

[ajdb]

I think GND kinda hit the head on the nail. We're able to read about the whys behind someone being on TV more often and it takes away from novelty of just seeing if the good guy can beat the bad guy. Now a days we can just read "So and so got hurt, company is going to bring Wrestler X back sooner than we thought."

I guess I'm saying we're just not impressed by wrestling now because we do know too much. We know how and why things happen rather than just seeing them happening naturally.

 

[ChicagoMade Punk]

ive been thinking about doing something for along time, take 3 months off of checking out the dirt sheets, just to see if they do anything that will surprise me or shock me, been thinking about from before rumble to wrestlemania, dont check out anything just watch

I've been thinking about doing the same thing. Wrestling has severely bored me since honestly Elimination Chamber. I feel like i know to much of whats going to happen, so it makes it less enjoyable. Only problem is i like being in the know. We all do, thats why we come here. We all want to learn new information about the wrestling world, and we wonder why its so boring when we know whats gonna happen NEXT YEAR.


"Card Subject to Change"

 

[Pedigree1]

Excellent Topic BTW! I say yes we know too much but really we have known for many years! Back when i was a kid at least (Im an Oldie) there was no internet,i sure as hell couldnt afford the wrestling hotlines. So when i was younger the suspension of wrestling being real was real to me.

Of course i got older and realized that Macho Man dropping a elbow straight on your throat could kill you! To me though its not ruined i find it interesting how they communicate to each other! Its perfectly scripted otherwise someone is gonna get hurt for real.

I dont read spoilers as i wanna enjoy the show without knowing what happened. But yes knowledge can skew your view if you let it! To me it doesnt skew my view at all.

 

[Headman]

I believe we think we know too much. Too many of us spend too much time trying to figure things out. We waste so much time believing websites who 9 out of 10 times are just making stuff up. I think a lot of fans have more fun arguing about wrestling than watching wrestling so if that's the draw then no, we don't know too much. If enjoying a wrestling show is the agenda then spoilers are never going to make any form of entertainment more enjoyable. Just depends on what you're in this for.

 

[HBsam31]

I agree that we think we know to much about the business. The one thing that I try to avoid is the Spoilers though. I get so much more enjoyment of course if I don't read them. Lately I have been staying away from the main page and just stick to these forums. It also seems like some people are unable to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the show. Sometimes I think they should go in a different direction than they do, but I am still able to enjoy the show. I remember being a kid and being so excited when I would recognize a guy that jumped from WCW to WWF or vice versa. That is an element I really miss. I think the main problem is we have to much access to info be it true or false. As fans I think we should just try to sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[giblet55]

In all honesty, the problem isn't about knowing too much, is thinking that we really know. Newsflash boys and girls, we quite frankly don't know jackshit about what REALLY goes on in the wrestling world.

I like your perspective. When reading wrestling websites and dirt sheets, I tend to take everything with a grain of salt, but I still read them. I think it's human nature to want to deconstruct things to understand how they work, and hopefully to gain a deeper appreciation for it as a result. Unfortunately, we never know if what we think we know or read is legitimate, until we see it on our television sets...

 

[squeaky000]

I've been watching since i was six and knew it was scripted since the start thanks to my sister... And still loved it, so it really didn't bother me much. Then i found out about online spoiler sites in 2007 and it did effect my viewing of wwe alot. I basically stopped watching smackdown in late 2008 because i knew it wasn't live and i could just read the spoliers and it just didn't seem right. So as long as there's spoiler sites we will continue to know to much.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

I'll get to my point. Do you feel that we, as fans, know too much about the wrestling industry? Granted...most of it may be second hand, questionable knowledge, but it's more than we had several years ago. Do you feel it skews our perspective of the product, of the WWE's goals or objectives? Do you feel it makes us unappreciative of what they do day in and day out? Do you think that knowing about faces, heels, tweeners, how story lines are constructed, changes how difficult or easy it is for them to entertain us?

We know as much as your average movie geek or comic book geek knows about the next Marvel Flick or as much as a hardcore gamer knows the rumblings of the industry. So do we know too much? Relative to everything else in today's media nope. Besides if its such a big problem for certain people they can just ignore all the latest news, scoops, and backstage stories.

Do you feel it was better...when we knew less?

Why would you want to know less, isn't it better that we know about the things we are fans of? Besides why is it better to be blind when we can see the richness of the industry it's past, present, and potential future. I think the WWE realizes this too anyways which is why the opened up a bit more on stuff like that even going as far as interviewing Austin after he walked out back in 2002/2003.

 

[Mustang Sally]

The fact that WWE has been around so long and that Raw is the longest episodic TV series in history helps explain why we may "know too much." As the OP said, he watched his first PPV at age 5 and has been with it ever since......i.e., we've all grown up with WWE and pro wrestling. Of course we're going to know more about how it all works; same as we would learn the machinations of anything to which we have constant exposure. Obviously, the Internet and social media push this to the heights.

Additionally, the "science" of pro wrestling has evolved; even as so many members of this forum claim there's been nothing new coming down the pike, the way things are done in the ring today is vastly different than the way of 20 years ago, or even 10.

I remember watching Randy Savage grab someone by the back of the head and sending him neck-first into the ropes, even as he was jumping over the top rope and landing on his feet outside the ring. At the time, I thought it was the most amazing thing my 9-year-old eyes had ever seen. I figured no one in history had the agility to perform that move except Macho Man.....and if they tried, they'd break a leg, for sure. Back then, it seemed so.....but today, plenty of guys do it. I even saw Wade Barrett successfully perform the move. No, it's not that Savage wasn't as great as I remembered; it's that the state of the art has advanced to where it is today.

Personally, I don't think there's such a thing as knowing too much. If you don't want to read spoilers, don't read 'em. But I prefer getting some of the inside dope on what might be happening, and seeing how it compares to what really occurs. For an upcoming PPV I plan to buy, I avoid reading anything that might reveal what's going to happen because I want to be surprised.

You take it as it comes, but a little knowledge is always a good thing.

 

[OneTooManyPunts]

'Knowing too much' is really more objective than anything. For some fans, the dirt sheets, spoilers, and understandings of the inner workings of the wrestling business enrich the product for them, because it lets them see every facet that leads to it playing out in person or on a television screen.

For some, knowing too much harms or ruins their ability to enjoy the product because it simply pulls the curtain too far back. They can see the magician misdirecting everyone else for the trick, and the effect and awe are lost.

I think the biggest problem is that despite all the information that is out there and readily available, too many feel as though what they read is the gospel. Dirt sheets are as reliable as the people contributing too them, and most stories aren't researched. They are reported and posted to garner hits and to feed the need of the IWC. Knowing how the business works isn't a bad thing, thinking you know how any one particular promotion is handling that business is.

I'm guilty of reading spoilers, and dirt sheets are what brought me to this forum. I like to read to the stories because it does shine that insight in to the performers, and the aspects of the business that all compile to give a weekly product.

Wrestling, maybe more than any other form of entertainment out there today, is the one thing that no matter how much you know, you have to be willing and ready to suspend your belief and your understanding to truly enjoy.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Everyone who watched wrestling in the 70s & 80s gets nostalgic for those days, sometimes I think we over glorify the product though. Lets face it, 1980s WWE sucked, cartoon characters with as much depth as SpongeBob and exceedingly short, un-athletic matches mostly spotlighting over muscled guys who could barely move in the ring. Fans may think today's product is boring but today's fans would have never watched 80s WWE, at least the match quality is better today.

There is something to be said for the idea of the "mystique" being gone...however, when I was kid in the 80s my parents made it clear that wrestling was fake so even then I knew what I was watching was a soap opera, about as real as "Dallas" or "Days Of Our Lives". About the only thing that really is different now is the ability to get match results as they happen via the Internet. I knew wrestling was a soap opera but I was still entertained, I remember camping out in front of the TV on Sat Morning to see if Lex Luger had finally beaten Ric Flair at the last PPV because at the time PPV match results were not always printed in the local paper and without the internet you had to watch to know what happened. Even when I didnt watch the WrestleMania's & Starracde's live I waited all week to see the the TV shows and find out who won.

That part of the mystique is gone, and I think it hurts the ratings a bit. Simply put, we dont have to watch to know the results. If I want to know if they caught The Miniature Kiler on "CSI" however I will have to watch.

Today in order to grab big numbers you have to have extremely compelling TV every week. Back in the 80s when there were only one or two signature events per year like WM, SC, Great American Bash, SummerSlam, weekly wrestling TV was heavy on promos and squash matches with a rare main event level match thrown in or occassiojnally highlights of something that happened at a recent house show. Mostly the match quality sucked because you knew Joe Jobber had as much chance of beating Randy Savage on WWE SuperStars as Larry Loser had of beating Tully Blanchard on WCW Sat Night. However, with fewer PPV events fueds moved slower (giving more fans access to these matches via the live touring) and you had to watch the weekly TV to have any idea how the fued was going. Today I can read the review of Raw (and most weeks see who is on the next episode, helping me decide if I even want to watch) so in essence I dont have to watch to follow and I can cherry pick if a match at a show really interests me enough to watch. I didnt order WrestleMania this year because I didnt think Cena-Rock II would be much different that Cena-Rock I except Cena would win and the only other matc on the card that mildly interested me was HHH-Lesnar, which I didnt think would be as good as HHH-Taker had been. Of course, I could still get the news on those matches by reading online, and if I cared I could read what happened on the other matches too involving guys like Ryback, CM Punk, etc. Not only did I not have to order the PPV but I didnt even have to watch Raw the next night. That dynamic did not exist Pre-1995-96.

Still, the popularity of wrestling in the mid to late 90s shows that even with the Internet if the storylines and characters are compelling enough people will watch, just like any other soap opera.

 

[rokuma]

I think knowing too much is part of the problem. We all want to be surprised. But I enjoy TNA's product these days far more than the WWE. I read Impact's spoilers or the recap before I watch it online (never watch it live. Can't on Thursdays). That being said, I enjoy what I see from TNA. Now, I have difficulty watching Raw. I read the results and see the matches and I think to myself, "I've seen this...last week" or "two months ago, they did the exact same matches" or "Not again. They've been feuding for months!" I think a greater problem is not only the predictability, but there are only so many ways to arrange talent and keep it fresh. The WWE is kinda out of ways. Plus there is 3 hours of Raw, 2 hours of Smackdown, 1 hour each of Superstars/Main Event, and a 1/2 half of Saturday Morning Slam. 7.5 hours PER WEEK. My goodness. How can you keep ANYTHING fresh when you have to fill that much TV time? And again, I can't watch Raw live on Mondays, but I find it on YouTube and minus commercials it's 2.5 hours long. Geez. That's PPV length. Who wants to sit through that every week? And not only that, watch the same matches you watched LAST week?

TNA is a wrestling company. They do interview segments and frequently have more interviews than match times, but the matches are good and they usually build toward a more important match down the line. Finishes are rarely clean and the top guys are kept strong. It feels like an actual competition and the wrestling is important. WWE is an entertainment conglomerate. They focus less on the wrestling aspect and more on segments and drawing in outside fans. In essence, they've forgotten what made long-term fans stick around: Wrestling.

So, yes I agree with you to a point, but I also think the product is stale and is trying to be something fans don't want it to be: An entertainment company instead of a wrestling federation.

 

[IT Factor]

The answer is an emphatic yes! We know too much about the behind-the-scenes stuff. With the invention of dirt sheets and rumor pages, we often know what happens before it does happen. That takes away the element of surprise, which is what entertainment and wrestling have always thrived on. When fans start to believe these dirt sheets and start thinking they are in the know, it changes us from fans to skeptics in a way. Every show is more a critique than it is entertainment. You cannot enjoy the product if you always view it from that standpoint. I tend to disreguard all the dirt sheets and rumors because I would rather enjoy the good parts of the shows than have it told to me what was good and what wasn't. For the same reason, I don't read spoilers. It just ruins what little good is left as a fan.

 

[CripplerBenoitFan]

I can't speak for all of us, but I can speak for myself and I don't think knowing the ins and outs has diminished the mystique for me at all. With things like professional wrestling, I need to allow myself to enjoy it in a childlike manner. It's not fun if I'm trying to analyze and pick things apart. I just want to cheer the good guys, boo the bad guys, and okay cheer a lot of the bad guys as well! The best experiences I have had with wrestling are when I just enjoy it the way I've enjoyed it since childhood. I don't really analyze or judge or say "Oh I could have written a better angle!". Bleh. No thanks.

I make every show a fun event to watch, and my fandom continues to grow.

 

[enviousdominous]

I think that a very important demographic in the WWE fanbase are the 12 and youngers who believe that it's all real no matter what the internet tells them.

For me, realizing at around age 11 that it was all staged did indeed take away from the suspense of a great match. I kept watching because I knew firsthand that 90% of the moves performed required an inhuman level of bravery.

These days


Posted from Wrestlezone.com App for Android

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

There is a psychological research about this phenomena. Shows that people are more happy if you dont give them choices. They settle down with what they had and thats it. So when you always wonder "what if", when you always looking something else and mean that it might be better if they booked differently you are not too happy with stuff. When you just hear that they book Rock- Cena again and know nothing you might even think "Hey, lets see, it might be good". So in a way, average wrestling fan is more happy the "We the allmighty IWC who know everything".

So in a way, ignorance is a bliss...

 

[IT Factor]

I can't speak for all of us, but I can speak for myself and I don't think knowing the ins and outs has diminished the mystique for me at all. With things like professional wrestling, I need to allow myself to enjoy it in a childlike manner. It's not fun if I'm trying to analyze and pick things apart. I just want to cheer the good guys, boo the bad guys, and okay cheer a lot of the bad guys as well! The best experiences I have had with wrestling are when I just enjoy it the way I've enjoyed it since childhood. I don't really analyze or judge or say "Oh I could have written a better angle!". Bleh. No thanks.

I make every show a fun event to watch, and my fandom continues to grow.

It's good to find others who still want to watch out of being a fan of the sport and not just to be popular. Things tend to get over analyzed in today's internet age. Things that used to be a big deal aren't anymore and small things are now blown outta proportion. I'll admit, I am critical in more ways than I used to be from a fan standpoint of things. I am no different than most net fans in that I do complain when WWE or TNA aren't living up to their potentials. We should be getting awesome matches and great storylines with the next generation of pro wrestlers/sports entertainers. WWE and TNA are both guilty of being complacent and on an auto-pilot of sorts. But I always enjoy at least a few aspects of both WWE & TNA and continue to watch hoping it will improve and become a great genre like it once was. To me, that's what being a fan is all about; watch the shows and enjoy them and still watch, despite not having the best of either company at the current time. I will always be a fan of pro wrestling no matter what name it goes by and hope it will be huge again someday like it was during the Monday Night wars. Or maybe even better, who knows?

 

[thebowtiekiller]

jr used to say anything can happen in the wwe problem is because of the internet we all know exactly what can and cant happen now we know who might be returning whos turning heel/face we can even look up wrestlers real names and such which takes away a lot from there gimmicks it has ruined it for me a bit but its hard not to go on sites like this and see whats happening the net is pro wrasslings worst enemy imo

 

[Olly]

For me, knowing wrestling isn't "real" only adds to the whole experience. I know these guys are performing to a script, I know they are entertainers, but that just makes me respect their bumps and their performances all the more. Laurence Olivier never dropped an elbow from 30 feet on Big Show. Kenneth Branagh never got spat on by "fans" like Bubbah Ray did.

I didn't like the predictability of the WM29 card but on the other hand, who saw Sheamus going over D-Bry in 18 seconds at WM28? And the IWC went ape-shit over that.

I think everyone would benefit from being more of a mark and less of a smark (god, I read the articles on B/R and cringe my face off), but on the other hand, we have to take responsibility for the way the WWE is booked. They only book what makes money.