Do Lesnar and Reigns Need someone to Carry Them to a Great Match?

[pepentorresHHH]

One of the most..... Mentioned arguments against a Brock vs Reigns match is that neither of them can carry the other to have a great match. Is this true?

Brock Lesnar's first run saw him have amazing matches against the likes of The Rock, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Chris BenoiT and Eddie Guerrero. All great ring generals, definetively top 25 of all times as far as the best wrestlers of all times. And then you saw matches against Big Show, hardcore Holly, Goldberg and other that went from ok to mediocre.

On his second run he had amazing matches against John Cena, HHH, CM Punk but 2 out of 3 of his HHH matches were Ok, his big show match was too short to judge. And then, The Undertaker got a concussion at Mania, with Brock having to dictate the pace and it was IMO not the best, ok it was bad. So Lesnar on the driver seat = bad match?

Roman Reigns has had amazing matches against The Wyatt Family, Team Hell No, Ryback, Cena, Orton, Sheamus, the Usos, etc. which means like Stone Cold said, he did 1/3 of the work, hiding behind better workers in Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose, hedid his power moves and thats it. He's had 3 big single matches IMO: against Orton at Summerslam, against Rollins on Raw, against Bryan at Fastlane. All this matches with amazing ring generals.

His one on one matches with Big Show, his ONLY one on one feud apart from D Bryan, IMO was not proof he can hold his own in the ring.

Personally, I believe both Roman and Brock are great enhancers, ergo with a ring general the can excel in the ring. But without one they could flounder.

Thoughts?

 

[SoulTrain4]

It's pretty well known that both need assistance, Brock is an athletic freak but it became obvious he was incapable of having a good match by himself last year when he knocked Taker loopy and he couldn't call the match anymore.

Roman needs help too, he has only had three good singles matches in his career. It's crazy they considering putting the title on a dude with such a limited resume

 

[Dave]

This topic was discussed only a few days ago with the contention that a special guest referee might be best for business. But at this point I say let them have at it and see what happens. I reckon that when push comes to shove, someone will step up and carry the match. They might not like it but they'll have to do it, that's just how wrestling works. I really hope the WWE have got this facet of the match down and something tells me it isn't something they would overlook. Lesnar is the veteran so I'm sure that he'll be calling the match. All that has been said is that he doesn't like to call the match. But it's never been said that he can't or he won't.

For me, everyone is already expecting this match to fail and fall flat. And if it happens because no one calls the match properly then so be it, the WWE have been proved wrong and it won't happen again. But if someone does take control and they give us a match that he all know they are capable of, then that's even better for everyone. I'm holding onto hopeful caution at this point and praying for the best.

 

[wwesux]

I said it before and I ll say it again Reigns mic and ring skills sucks! He needs to better improve and he is the second worst from the 3! Seth Rollins is the truest and hard worker among the 3 with great mic skills and in ring skills. Dean Ambrose sucks( real name Jonathan no Good) He ain t good period has rusty ring skils and major jobber hasn t won any matches and mic skills are horrendous! This Heavyweight Championship match will go down in WM history as the worst match cause they are not building it up and are majorly rushing it! They should ve left it with Daniel Bryan vs Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesner triple threat match but wwe screwed that one up majorly! Place someone in the triple threat match like Kane or anyone who has no match at WM31

A triple threat match is in order here

 

[kumarjtk]

wwe did a lot for roman reigns look strong. Starting from royal rumble to now they 100 percent behind reigns. So at wm their is no way to reigns lose. He definitely walk out as a champion at mania. The match is going to be a brutal and hardcore so we just saw a fight not a wrestling match.

 

[kadroan]

One of the most..... Mentioned arguments against a Brock vs Reigns match is that neither of them can carry the other to have a great match. Is this true?

Brock Lesnar's first run saw him have amazing matches against the likes of The Rock, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Chris BenoiT and Eddie Guerrero. All great ring generals, definetively top 25 of all times as far as the best wrestlers of all times. And then you saw matches against Big Show, hardcore Holly, Goldberg and other that went from ok to mediocre.

On his second run he had amazing matches against John Cena, HHH, CM Punk but 2 out of 3 of his HHH matches were Ok, his big show match was too short to judge. And then, The Undertaker got a concussion at Mania, with Brock having to dictate the pace and it was IMO not the best, ok it was bad. So Lesnar on the driver seat = bad match?

Roman Reigns has had amazing matches against The Wyatt Family, Team Hell No, Ryback, Cena, Orton, Sheamus, the Usos, etc. which means like Stone Cold said, he did 1/3 of the work, hiding behind better workers in Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose, hedid his power moves and thats it. He's had 3 big single matches IMO: against Orton at Summerslam, against Rollins on Raw, against Bryan at Fastlane. All this matches with amazing ring generals.

His one on one matches with Big Show, his ONLY one on one feud apart from D Bryan, IMO was not proof he can hold his own in the ring.

Personally, I believe both Roman and Brock are great enhancers, ergo with a ring general the can excel in the ring. But without one they could flounder.

Thoughts?

I think they'll be fine. They're both strong athletic big men. Hopefully they let Reigns use some of his moves from NXT. I was just watching some of Reigns matches from NXT the other day, they definitely watered down his moveset.

 

[Prince Vee]

I don't understand how can they both have someone to help them carry the match? Well but as far as your other opinions I utterly agree with you. Yes they both would need someone to carry themselves.. But my question is How??

 

[Navi]

You didn't have a "I don't give a rat's ass anymore. Because the WWE can't be arsed enough to even have them in the same ring to build this match" option. And that's the one I'm voting for.

This match is going to go one of two ways. It's going to be an epic crash and burn the likes we've not seen in awhile, or it's going to be quite good. If someone like Brock Lesnar or Roman Reigns don't know how to work a match together then neither one should be champion. And who in their right mind is going to get between them.

I'm actually hoping that Rollins cash's in and walks out as champion that night.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Lesnar doesn't. He has enough natural fight instincts, credibility, athleticism, and ability to have a good (or at least, interesting) enough match with anyone.

Reigns doesn't have any of those.

This match is either going to get 100% shit on or it will be all for Lesnar.

 

[wwesux]

wwe did a lot for roman reigns look strong. Starting from royal rumble to now they 100 percent behind reigns. So at wm their is no way to reigns lose. He definitely walk out as a champion at mania. The match is going to be a brutal and hardcore so we just saw a fight not a wrestling match.

Oh My gosh are you clueless and moronic? Reigns is losing as wwe is reaching an agreement with Brock Lesner most likely extending his contract so Lesner walks out as champion cause he is appearing on RAW next night. After Heyman will give his true convincing speech as always that his client beat reigns and he told you so! Geeeez reigns sucks and his mic skills and ring skills are poor and rusty!

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

If they go out and try have a 'wrestling' match this is going to fall flat imo. The best thing to do is to get out there and let them have an all out war. I'm talking using announce tables, steel chairs, title shots to the face. Let them destroy the absolute shit out of each other. That way the fans will be way more into the match. Then if they feel that Roman doesn't get the reaction they want they can call an audible and have Rollins come out and cash in.

 

[laodaron]

It's pretty well known that both need assistance, Brock is an athletic freak but it became obvious he was incapable of having a good match by himself last year when he knocked Taker loopy and he couldn't call the match anymore.

Roman needs help too, he has only had three good singles matches in his career. It's crazy they considering putting the title on a dude with such a limited resume

No, it's not well known. It's often STATED by marks on the internet, but I've yet to see a credible shoot from anyone that says Brock or Reigns can't work without someone else to run the match.

Lesnar doesn't. He has enough natural fight instincts, credibility, athleticism, and ability to have a good (or at least, interesting) enough match with anyone.

Reigns doesn't have any of those.

This match is either going to get 100% shit on or it will be all for Lesnar.

Reigns showed in his fight where he carried Daniel Bryan that he's perfectly capable of working with anyone. For God's sake, he made Daniel Bryan look better than HHH, Batista, or Orton did at last year's Wrestlemania.

If they go out and try have a 'wrestling' match this is going to fall flat imo. The best thing to do is to get out there and let them have an all out war. I'm talking using announce tables, steel chairs, title shots to the face. Let them destroy the absolute shit out of each other. That way the fans will be way more into the match. Then if they feel that Roman doesn't get the reaction they want they can call an audible and have Rollins come out and cash in.

Disagree. Brock Lesnar is a literal professional wrestler. His gimmick is wrestling, MMA, UFC technician. This match, if it's allowed to go, will be brilliant.

 

[Allstar]

I think people are gonna be really surprised with how the match turns out - in a good way too!
Brock is a beast and his character and wrestling style is waaaay better than his 2002 stint.
You know Brock will give it his all on the grandest stage of them all.

And Reigns is a powerhouse with so much untapped potential. Yes his promos need some work but I think he has proved he can go in the ring with the pressure is on - heck it's in his blood to be a great preformer!

The only way I see this going bad is the so called "hardcore" fans deciding to shit all over the match because that's the "cool" thing to do.

In saying that...I wouldn't be against Seth Rollins coming out before the match even starts and makes it a triple threat.

so to answer the question, No I don't think they need someone to carry them.

 

[Mustang Sally]

"Seth, this match is dying. Get down there with your briefcase right now."

-Vince McMahon



Now, I'm kind of excited about the whole thing. This business about two wrestlers who can't wrestle fighting the top match on the top PPV of the top sports entertainment organization is too good to miss.

Kind of makes you hope Brock Lesnar is re-signing, huh? If so, maybe he'll give a tin shit what happens in this match. Then again, if he truly intends to go back to UFC, perhaps he'll want to make a good showing in his last wrestling match simply because he knows the mixed martial arts fans will have been following his career since his pro football tryout days. He won't want his final effort in pro wrestling to be a dog.

My guess? Brock and Roman will bring it. They're two big, strong guys who can make up with effort what they lack in ring-leading skills. They'll totally exhaust themselves for real, giving all they've got......and I believe the fans will appreciate the match just for the fact they'll know they're getting all Brock & Roman have to give.

If they flub some spots; well, that's what would happen if two huge guys got into a street fight, isn't it? This isn't ballet, is it? Vince McMahon might not be happy, but fans who give it a chance might very well like it.

Of course, those of you who are determined to hate will do that no matter the match goes, but I'm going to be optimistic about this.

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

Disagree. Brock Lesnar is a literal professional wrestler. His gimmick is wrestling, MMA, UFC technician. This match, if it's allowed to go, will be brilliant.

In 'wrestling' terms Brock Lesnar is unbelievable yes, but in 'sports entertainment' Brock can't carry the match. He is capable of having a great match yes, but since he has come back all Lesnars best matches have been straight up brawls. Then the fact Reigns will be more protected by this means, imo, this is the way they should go.

 

[Mustang Sally]

.... since he has come back all Lesnars best matches have been straight up brawls. Then the fact Reigns will be more protected by this means, imo, this is the way they should go.

I agree. Roman has the size and strength to match well with Brock in a physical, hard-hitting battle. Roman doesn't have the technical skills? Fine, they won't be needed as much in a match like this.....honestly, Daniel Bryan was probably a harder match for Reigns to engage than Brock will be due to Roman having to sell for Daniel's leg kicks and other "technical" maneuvers.

Yes, if Reigns-Lesnar were a UFC encounter in which they're really punching each other, I don't imagine Roman would have much of a chance.....but this is pro wrestling where they aren't really delivering shots designed to knock the other guy out.

These two aren't going to be exchanging hammerlocks and snap-mares. It will be a brawl and I predict a better fight to watch than most people believe.

 

[OYDK]

It's all basically been said, but I'll add my two cents.

OP is right when he says that both guys perform better with a ring general in there with them. History has shown that Lesnar has had his best matches against the likes of Kurt Angle and The Undertaker and relatively falls flat against the Goldbergs/Big Shows of the WWE. Same goes for Reigns with his best performances coming in matches against, Bryan and Orton. Then again, both are very athletically gifted and can perform almost anything that is asked of them, physically, in the ring. That athletic talent alone gives this the potential to be a great match.

Basically, they can't wrestle. They need to fight. I think it would be in WWE's best interest to make this a no DQ match, and just let them unload their anger on each other. Make it the most brutal match we've seen since HIAC 1998. Imo, that's the only way this match becomes a "classic" so to speak.

Both can carry their own weight if they're functioning at 100%, they just need to find a direction to take the story of the match.

 

[RicSpade]

I think most people miss the point when it comes to reigns and lesnar, I want to be clear coming from an indy standpoint being a former referee there are guys who are greener then goose S***, then there are guys who can carry a match, and then there are two guys who aren't going to mesh well. The reason some argue the Taker match wasn't good is the getting knocked out aspect, that may be true, but generally big guys vs big guys aren't a good thing, Nash vs. Goldberg, Big show vs. Lesnar, Batista vs. Khali, Bundy vs. Taker, Andre vs. Big John Studd, these are just a few examples because it was 2 big guys the spots are limited. The difference here is Reigns can do the stuff Taker can do and he's a smaller guy then Taker, Reigns can do spots, Lesnar can carry himself, the question is if the fans go south before the match goes on what will they do to bring the fans in... if its a suplex fest there getting booed out of the building, but if they can pull in the fans with the high spots and make this match watchable.

 

[John McCass]

If they go out and try have a 'wrestling' match this is going to fall flat imo. The best thing to do is to get out there and let them have an all out war. I'm talking using announce tables, steel chairs, title shots to the face. Let them destroy the absolute shit out of each other. That way the fans will be way more into the match. Then if they feel that Roman doesn't get the reaction they want they can call an audible and have Rollins come out and cash in.

Yes, I liked this idea. Both of them not being capable to put a 'wrestling' clinic. They both need to be carried throughout the match (not bitching reigns, but he is not still experienced and talented enough, as of now, to work a great match with Lesnar). Lesnar's matches seem to be a brawl more than a wrestling match. This is the pattern they should follow once again. Have a bloody brawl and the crowd will be all for the match. What was Rock-Hogan if we don't consider the crowd reaction? Even Rock-Austin was kinda intense brawl which is now considered as a classic. Yes, they surely need to brawl through the entrance ramp, through the crowd and more hardcore spots like stiff chairshots, spear to the barricade. This is not a match, This is a fight.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

No, it's not well known. It's often STATED by marks on the internet, but I've yet to see a credible shoot from anyone that says Brock or Reigns can't work without someone else to run the match.

Reigns showed in his fight where he carried Daniel Bryan that he's perfectly capable of working with anyone. For God's sake, he made Daniel Bryan look better than HHH, Batista, or Orton did at last year's Wrestlemania.

Disagree. Brock Lesnar is a literal professional wrestler. His gimmick is wrestling, MMA, UFC technician. This match, if it's allowed to go, will be brilliant.

Is this a joke? We're talking about the same Daniel Bryan who went 75 minutes with Austin Aries right? The only person who makes Bryan look good is Bryan. Reigns didn't carry anything. If anything, it shows how superior Bryan is (and really, Bryan should be in the main given you know, he's the most over guy). Not like Wrestlemania 15 was Rock vs Big Show because, fuck it, Austin (the most over guy) was the main last year and we need to put over a new guy.

 

[laodaron]

Is this a joke? We're talking about the same Daniel Bryan who went 75 minutes with Austin Aries right? The only person who makes Bryan look good is Bryan. Reigns didn't carry anything. If anything, it shows how superior Bryan is (and really, Bryan should be in the main given you know, he's the most over guy). Not like Wrestlemania 15 was Rock vs Big Show because, fuck it, Austin (the most over guy) was the main last year and we need to put over a new guy.

No, it's not a joke. I couldn't care less what Bryan Danielson did in front of 76 fans in a VFW hall in 2005. What I do care about is Daniel Bryan, and Roman Reigns made Daniel Bryan look like a viable opponent. HHH couldn't do it, Cena couldn't do it, Orton and Batista couldn't do it. They are all just too far above Daniel Bryan's league, and they couldn't lower themselves into Indy Style. Roman Reigns went toe to toe with Daniel Bryan, and was able to help Daniel Bryan look like he really could fit into the Main Event picture. It's a testament to Roman Reign's talent. We already knew Daniel Bryan could go full steam and do 1000 kicks in a match. We, however, didn't know that someone could pull that type of match out of him.

And being an over guy means fuckall. Stop talking about it like being over should get you a main event sport at Wrestlemania. It's about Drawing power, and if Daniel Bryan could draw, he'd be the top guy. The WWE is a business. They don't care about anything except who makes the most money for the company.

 

[Steel Cage Reviews]

I really like what they are doing with Reigns but his mic skills are terrible. Cant such much more about lesnar but i like lesnar's gimmick more.