Did the nWo have to be Hall, Nash and Hogan?

[HeenanGorilla]

Sorry dude, but based on your theory, Bret Hart would have been buried. The nWo invasion officially commenced May 27th, Halls first appearance. Nash June 10th and Hogan joining July 7th 1996. The screwjob did not happen until November 1997, nearly 18 months later. They could not have played off that at all, and did a shit job of using Bret when he came to WCW after the Montreal screwjob. Add to that the tension between Hogan and Hart relating back to mid 1993 when Hulk refused to put Hart over at Summerslam 1993 as originally scripted,even though Hart was off contract in mkid 1996 filming Lonesome Dove, he would not have been anywhere near as effective as Bret. HBK would never have jumped ship at that time, he was the WWE Champion in his first title reign, and Helmsley was locked well under contract and in the poo following the "curtain call" incident. Fact: there is nobody who could have made the group as enetertaining or believable as a takeover invasion than Hall, Nash and eventually Hogan.

You are missing the point. The screwjob would not have helped the NWO angle. They were supposed to be coming from "up north" to take over WCW. A screwed Bret would not have made sense. The 1996 Bret would have been ok--not as good as Hogan--but would have worked. You are not thinking of, or aware of, the entire Bret Hart negotiation timeline.

 

[thebarber]

FIXED.

In fact, I would argue that it was because Hulk Hogan was the #1 face throughout his WWF career that helped the nWo so successful. I think it had to be those three guys. The entire Outsiders angle was built as an invasion from the WWF, even though they couldn't actually mention that for legal purposes. WCW did everything they could to convince the fans that Hall and Nash were still employed by the WWF when they weren't. At first, the nWo was set up as a renegade group trying to invade/take over WCW from the outside. You simply could not have done this with WCW wrestlers, for obvious reasons. Nobody would believe it if it was composed of all guys that already in WCW. Hall and Nash not being televised as current wrestlers on the WCW roster was vital to the success of the nWo.

Then, when they mentioned a third member, you knew it had to be an ex-WWF guy, and that it had to be someone big enough to provide that shock value. Hulk Hogan was the perfect choice, because NOBODY ever thought that he could ever be a bad guy. The inclusion of Hulk Hogan gave the nWo immediate credibility as being big time, and Hogan's heel turn rejuvenated a career that was on the fast track towards irrelevancy. If the 3rd member is Randy Savage, who had shifted between face and heel his entire career, you lose that element of surprise. Hulk Hogan was the absolute perfect choice to be the 3rd member. Nobody else could have provided the same amount of shock value.

It couldn't have been Bret Hart, the timing simply does not work. The Outsiders made their first appearance on Nitro on May 27, 1996. Bret Hart was still under contract with the WWF for another year and a half. The Montreal Screwjob didn't occur until November 1997. It simply could not have been Bret. Contracts are a bitch. Not only that, but since when was Bret Hart always a good guy in the WWF? There was a time when he was one of the most hated wrestlers on the roster to all non-Canadians.

actually fella, Bret Hart was not under contract in May 1996. His contract expired not long after a tour of Kuwait following Mania 12 and Hart was in a bidding war between WWE and WCW. Hart retruend to WWE in October 1996 and only signed the new 20 year contract that same afternoon before appearing on Raw. Bret Hart was sounded out about this angle, its in his book, but also fact is Davey Boy Smith was also coming off contract following King of the Ring 1996 and Eric Bischoff tried to get Bulldog to sign and used the dangle of a carrot of the nWo storyline to get him over. Hulk did not commit to the nWo storyline until days out from Bash at the Beach. Bischoff had Sting ready to be the man to turn and become the third guy, but once Hogan made his mind up to turn heel, Sting was left. If you notice that in the first half of 1996, Sting let his bleach grow out and he started growing his hair and getting his gimmick ready for his heel turn. True story. That Hogan finally become the third guy was the PERFECT outcome for WCW nad Hogans career, which was stale at the time.

You are missing the point. The screwjob would not have helped the NWO angle. They were supposed to be coming from "up north" to take over WCW. A screwed Bret would not have made sense. The 1996 Bret would have been ok--not as good as Hogan--but would have worked. You are not thinking of, or aware of, the entire Bret Hart negotiation timeline.

no, my timeline of the Bret Hart situation is spot on. Bret Hart left WWE after Wrestlemania 12 when his contract expired. He was in a bidding war between WCW and WWE for most of 1996, finally re-signing a 20 year contract with WWE in October 1996, well after the nWo angle had happened and was in motion. Whilst in negotiations with WCW IN 1996, Hart was sounded out, as was Bulldog about joining WCW in this angle. Both knocked it back, and Hart kept both sides guessing until he re-signed with WWE. It was in October 1997, one year in to his new 20 year contract that Bret and Vince had their dramas aboput not beinmg able to honour Brets contract and Vince advised Bret to see if he could get the original deal WCW had offered in 1996. Bret got the $9 million, three year deal and Vince released Bret from his contract. Montreal followed after Bret refused to drop the belt at Survivor Series 1997. Timeline is spot on my friend. The Montreal Screwjob would have not ever happened if Bret signed in 1996 with WCW. FACT

 

[HeenanGorilla]

no, my timeline of the Bret Hart situation is spot on. Bret Hart left WWE after Wrestlemania 12 when his contract expired. He was in a bidding war between WCW and WWE for most of 1996, finally re-signing a 20 year contract with WWE in October 1996, well after the nWo angle had happened and was in motion. Whilst in negotiations with WCW IN 1996, Hart was sounded out, as was Bulldog about joining WCW in this angle. Both knocked it back, and Hart kept both sides guessing until he re-signed with WWE. It was in October 1997, one year in to his new 20 year contract that Bret and Vince had their dramas aboput not beinmg able to honour Brets contract and Vince advised Bret to see if he could get the original deal WCW had offered in 1996. Bret got the $9 million, three year deal and Vince released Bret from his contract. Montreal followed after Bret refused to drop the belt at Survivor Series 1997. Timeline is spot on my friend. The Montreal Screwjob would have not ever happened if Bret signed in 1996 with WCW. FACT

Then your reading skills are off. Your last statement "The Montreal Screwjob would have not ever happened if Bret signed in 1996 with WCW. FACT" is not only poorly written, it doesn't address my post. Yes, that is a fact; but, that goes without saying--which is fitting because I didn't say anything to the contrary. What I said was that Hart joining the NWO after being screwed would not have been effective. However, him joining, or being the 3rd man, would have made sense. Again, not nearly as effective as Hogan, but it would have made sense and worked.

Thank you for recapping the Bret Hart autobiography for me; but, that was not a valid response to my statement. Maybe instead of memorization of facts and dates, you could apply some reasoning skills to your thought process.

And, I know I mentioned it already, but your last statement is so out of place and unnecessary--and such a "duh"--that I find it hard to believe you find yourself to be smarter than everyone else on this board, yet can't read comments for what they are. It's like you saying the world is round, not flat and me responding with "Columbus was Italian. FACT" Yes, that is a fact, but has no bearing on the original statement.

I shouldn't be surprised. I just wish there was a forum for people who know how to read and a separate one for people like you.

To those who actually did read--and understand--my post. My opinion is that Bret would have been effective, but not as effective as the legendary Hogan turn. The screwjob (EVERYONE knows it happened in November 1997) but had it happened pre-Bash at the Beach or whenever, it would not have worked as a lead in. The timing of the screwjob is not the point. It is the story of the screwjob. Had Bret been screwed and THEN shown up as the third man, or some other addition to the boys from the north "taking over", it would have been seen through and been ineffective. That is why 1996 Bret, albeit to a much smaller degree to Hogan, would have worked.

1+1=2 FACT

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The nWo could have "worked" without Hall, Nash and Hogan but it would not have been the game changing storyline like it is known today. Replace Hall and Nash with say, Savage and Sting and you have a very intriguing storyline on your hands with some of the biggest stars of the company turning on the company and threatening to rule it with an iron fist. That could have also gotten the ratings up but it would have never scratched the walls of kayfabe like nWo did. As Barbosa says one of the biggest attractions of the nWo was the speculation that WWF had sent superstars over to WCW to invade it and that speculation would have never existed had it been some homegrown WCW superstar or even someone who had been with the company for a while. Of course, I am only saying this considering only those people WCW had in their roster when the nWo was formed. If we assume that anyone could have defected from the WWF then I assume that the likes of Undertaker, HBK and Bret Hart would have been equally good choices for the roles that Nash and Scott enacted in the nWo.

As for Hogan, again, he wasn't irreplaceable but he was simply the best man for the job. Hogan had never turned heel since his Hulkamania run and no one believed that he would ever turn heel. The mere shock value of Hogan turning heel is something that no performer, be it in the WCW or the WWF, could have given to the angle at that point of time.