Did the nWo have to be Hall, Nash and Hogan?

[justtxyank]

I've given this a lot of though recently and I've wondered if the nWo worked because the three guys involved were the three single perfect characters.

The nWo wasn't just a heel faction, it was a cool, charismatic faction that relied heavily on the heels being cool and cocky. Hall and Nash really got the nWo over while Hogan developed his uber heel schtick.

So my question is, if you couldn't use Hall, Nash or Hogan in the nWo (meaning None of the three) could you have made it work?

How would you have done it?

 

[This Is My Name Thank You]

I wouldn't of had done it any other way. It was played the right way and worked out the right way. Kevin Nash, Scott Hall along with Hogan were all ready big names in pro wrestling so who else could they have used? No one had the star power during that time when they were leaving the WWF to make the story play out right. Hall and Nash were the perfect outsiders, they were good friends, and they also both left the WWF at the same giving time. So, this just made logical since to have it be this way.

Now you add in Hogan one of the most over guys ever turn heel to join his buddies the Outsiders was just right. It felt right since they were friends it just made everything work. They were top stars, they were friends, highly over and also, the biggest names in WcW at that time.

Sure, they had Flair and others but I just don't see and never will see Flair or even Sting being in the original NWO. WcW didn't have the most over stars to pull into the group and I don't it would of been as big of a deal if they had anyone else try to the play the part. It probably would have flopped in a matter of months vs the 3 or so years it lasted.

So me personally wouldn't have done it any other way then the way it played out.

 

[Tattooed Jesus]

I don't think it could have gotten as big without having Hogan turn heel and join. Hall and Nash were gonna be over in WCW that was evident already but when they started the nWo with Hogan they blew the roof off of their own popularity. At first I was disappointed to see Hogan as the 3rd man that night but just one promo on Nitro as Hollywood Hogan changed my mind.

I think possibly the only way that it might have and this is a big if, is if Shawn Michaels would have shown up that night as the 3rd man and joined Hall and Nash. I think that would have made the biggest change to the wrestling landscape.

 

[thebarber]

oh dear, is this thread serious??? The nWo would not have gotten over anywhere near it did without the three guys Hall Nash and Hogan. For the angle to work, it had to have guys who were previous stars in WWE and now under contract to WCW. The intention was for the viewer to believe the nWo were a grioup of ex WWE employees looking to start warfare with WCW. Based on that being fact, I dont think Big Bossman and Earthquake turning up and promising to shake things up would have workled bahahaha. And it only worked as Hall and Nash signed at that time. Hacksaw Duggan and Haku came over in 1994, ditto Honky Tonk Man, Iron Sheik, Brutus Beefcake. No, none of those guys would have worked at all. It had to be guys still AT THE TOP OF THEIR CAREERS. Sorry, but this thread is a tad silly in my opinion,. its like saying would the Four Horsemen been as over without Flair, Anderson and Blanchard.

 

[justinept]

The first few months of the NWO might have been one of the most flawless angles in wrestling history. I don't know that you could have changed any one aspect of it -much less all of it - and found the same success.

The most important factor in the staying power of the NWO was the addition of Hogan. I don't think anyone will dispute that without Hulk Hogan's heel turn, the NWO would not have had the impact it did. Not only did he add the "holy shit" factor to the early stages of the NWO, but his presence also took away the obvious face choice to take out the faction. Think about it, a face Hogan most likely would have been the guy to go over the NWO. And given Hogan's reputation, he probably would have done it sooner than later.

That isn't to say that Hall and Nash were just going along for the ride. Those two had EVERYTHING going for them in 1996. They were both solid workers - with Hall being one of the better workers in the business at the time. In addition, they were both solid on the mic, believable heels and - most importantly - their WWF connection allowed WCW to really play off the "invasion" aspect in the early stages. The size of Hall and Nash also played a really big role in the early success. Hall is billed at 6'7; Nash is billed at 7 feet ... their size made them intimidating and gave them credibility in terms of being able to "take over" a company.

I can't think of three guys in 1996 that had ALL those things going for them ... and without every ingredient those three brought to the table, I don't know how the NWO could have been as big as it was.

 

[ilapierre]

For the sake of someone answering this question, i'll give my best shot. Although I believe nothing could have worked any better than the original three. Today something similar that could work if done right would be if Stone Cold Steve Austin came back and joined someone like Randy Orton and CM Punk in a heel faction. Or if John Cena turned heel but joined with two huge stars he'd never been in the ring with before. Hogan, Hall and Nash was so awesome because Hogan had no involvement with either until Bash at the Beach 96. In 1996 the closest thing i could think of involving three other guys would be Shawn Michaels and Triple H defecting to WCW and joining Ric Flair or Randy Savage. Still, it wouldn't have been the same as Hogan and his massive ego is what made the NWO what it was. And Michaels and Triple H weren't cool or mean enough to pull off making the NWO what it became. No wrestler other than Hogan could have been the central guy. Hitman and Michaels tried years later and it was considered a failure. Today for something similar to work the third guy would have to be as big as Stone Cold or the Rock.

 

[justinept]

Or if John Cena turned heel but joined with two huge stars he'd never been in the ring with before. .

He is the ONLY today that could make this work like Hogan did because he is so comparable to Hogan. Both were "angelic faces." Both represented everything good about people. Both had lengthy, uninterrupted face runs... But if he turned like Hogan did, then most would call it predictable and repetitive.

 

[RicSpade]

I think the thing about would it have worked or not without the three would be if you had 3 popular superstars that jumped ship and could've done what they did to break new ground in the industry, for example the original concept for the Nwo was to incorporate Bret Hart at one time when his contract was first coming up, but honestly at the time Bret Hart made a lot better face then he did a heel, HBK too while being cocky I never really seen him as a good heel, because even in DX his antics are what made him heel, but many supported him as if it was like with Hulk Hogan. Quite honestly like most stables today the Nwo concept only works with guys who clicked, you could never take the horsemen from the mid 90's and compare to the horsemen of the 80's, and you can't make seven different incarnations of the Nwo from its inception to now (Red, White, Silver, WWE, WWE v2, TNA's The Pack) Stables are never as good as their first run, and without the right combination your just a bunch of mexicools riding lawn mowers....

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

I think a big part of what made Hogan Nash and Hall the PERFECT combination for the NWO was that Hall and Nash were known good friends and Hogan was not only from a different era, but he was gone for a while, so it was impossible to make the connection and it ended up catching everyone by surprise. By using Hogan it was something really special, and I think by using anyone else like Machon Man or Sting it would have the feel of another Horseman type faction. I don't think it could've been made to work without those 3. Unless..... Oh yes! I have one that could have worked... Assuming contract situations etc worked out, you could have done something just as big with Triple H, Shawn Michaels coming over and in the Hulk Hogan position... Nature Boy Ric Flair... at the time we wouldn't have made the connection since Flair Trips and HBK didn't start hanging till much later. I can see the three of them having a pretty big run in WCW similar to the NWO, if not bigger.

 

[GodCompleX]

Let's see, the original plan was for Bret to be the 3rd man. While that would've been a shock to see it wouldn't have had the impact that The Real American HH's turn did. Plus Bret on the mic doesn't come close to Hall, Nash or Hogan so that would've been a drawback as well. Option #2 was Sting and while that was a better all around choice imo than Bret it still wouldn't have been as great as it turned out to be. Sting doesn't do heel personas well, plus we would've missed out on the silent Crow Sting hunting the nWo! All in all the perfect combo was put together and it all worked out for the best.

 

[thebromm]

It wouldn't have been pulled off any other way. The whole theory around the original 3 nWo members was that Scott Hall & Kevin Nash were in somebody from WCW's ear well in advance of their arrival. By somebody I mean a talent. Hall and Nash, in theory DIDN'T have a WCW contract. They were WWF workers. At first they were afraid to MENTION that they were WWF employees for fear of a lawsuit which is exactly what they got but thats another story. They merely hinted at 'the company up north' or in 'New York.' The key was the third man. Who had Nash and Hall already had on their side from WCW? Bischoff wanted Hogan to do it and naturally Hogan was afraid to turn heel because it might hurt his stock and his value once he returned to being a babyface. To Stings credit he was ready and willing to do it if Hogan backed out. Which I'm sure Hogans thinking was "Oh that s.o.b. wants my spot. Now I got to do it." Low life piece of crap. God I hate that man. Anyhow, it would not work any other way.

 

[THE SWAG]

it wouldn't have worked any other way you have 2 wwf stars at the time hall and nash as free agents, and close friends at that, coming back to wcw with established characters, and then you have the man that put wrestling on the map all by himself, who better to turn heel and launch that factions to heights that a faction has never been taken before, much props for hogan and bischoff, that was the best turn ever on any wrestler. and the timing was right on everything. it was just TOO SWEEEEEEEEEEET.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Hogan was perfect for that role. The only other person who could have made it work was HBK. But the problem with that is, Hogan would have never allowed them to get over big.

Hogan would not have jobbed to any of them rendering the nWo, moot. That was the biggest reason why he was perfect for the nWo. He had complete control.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Hogan was perfect for that role. The only other person who could have made it work was HBK. But the problem with that is, Hogan would have never allowed them to get over big.

Hogan would not have jobbed to any of them rendering the nWo, moot. That was the biggest reason why he was perfect for the nWo. He had complete control.

Never thought of it that way.

But you are absolutely right. Hogan would refuse to put over talent unless they were unstoppable ala Warrior, Goldberg. If the nWo had anyoneelse in that head role (I too would lean towards HBK), Hogan would've done his best to-

a) Triumph over them and try and cement himself as a bigger babyface.

or

b) Realize that people are turned off his character and have a high profile retirement.

or

c) Refuse to put a heel group over and go home.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

It wouldn't have been pulled off any other way. The whole theory around the original 3 nWo members was that Scott Hall & Kevin Nash were in somebody from WCW's ear well in advance of their arrival. By somebody I mean a talent. Hall and Nash, in theory DIDN'T have a WCW contract. They were WWF workers. At first they were afraid to MENTION that they were WWF employees for fear of a lawsuit which is exactly what they got but thats another story. They merely hinted at 'the company up north' or in 'New York.' The key was the third man. Who had Nash and Hall already had on their side from WCW? Bischoff wanted Hogan to do it and naturally Hogan was afraid to turn heel because it might hurt his stock and his value once he returned to being a babyface. To Stings credit he was ready and willing to do it if Hogan backed out. Which I'm sure Hogans thinking was "Oh that s.o.b. wants my spot. Now I got to do it." Low life piece of crap. God I hate that man. Anyhow, it would not work any other way.

According to Hogan and Bischoff it was Hogan's idea to turn heel. EB wanted the third man to be Sting but Hogan called him and basically said no one would expect a Hogan heel turn.

It made sense because Hogan was getting the Cena treatment from the fans at the time.

 

[KoC417]

To be totally honest the NWO didn't HAVE to be Hogan, Nash and Hall. BUT Hogan would have eventually joined. If Bret had gone to WCW and been the 3rd man it would have been just as amazing if not even more amazing. Can you imagine if instead of Hogan walking out it was BRET HART!? The announcers would have been screaming so much they would have crapped themselves. However that would have eventually led to a serious downfall for the nWo. Because Hogan would have had to go heel due to his character getting boring/old/stale. So then we would have been left with Hogan/Hart/Hall (wow Triple H haha) and Nash. Looking back at it the only way this could have gone down was the way it went down. Having that many super egos on 1 side would have ultimately led to a quicker downfall for the nWo.
Hogan was the only way it could have gone. Sadly if Hulk had the mindset of Terry Funk- that being Terry Funk realized he needed to pass the torch I think things would have been even better. But Hogan being the ego/power hungry douche that he is made it so he was the ONLY acceptable option.

 

[DirtyD79]

Like others have said it just wouldn't have worked with anybody but those three. Hall and Nash had just recently jumped ship from WWF so the timing was right plus they were both main event contenders which obviously lent them far more credibility. Also Hulk Hogan was love him or hate him the face of wrestling even at that time. Him turning heel gave them a huge moment not just in the company they're in but the whole industry. For the vast majority of fans they saw Hogan as the king of babyfaces. Even if you had grown tired of his whole Train, Say your Prayers, Eat your vitamins schtick you still never would have pictured he would actually turn into a bad guy. For most of us at that time Hulk Hogan had been a babyface for most of our lives. It's all we knew him as.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Never thought of it that way.

But you are absolutely right. Hogan would refuse to put over talent unless they were unstoppable ala Warrior, Goldberg. If the nWo had anyoneelse in that head role (I too would lean towards HBK), Hogan would've done his best to-

a) Triumph over them and try and cement himself as a bigger babyface.

or

b) Realize that people are turned off his character and have a high profile retirement.

or

c) Refuse to put a heel group over and go home.

Exactly. IMO, Hogan jobbed to the Warrior as a favor for Vince. Goldberg he had no choice. BG was over so much he had to drop the title to him. At that time Goldberg was Austin over and that's saying something.

For the nWo to work Hogan had to be a big part of it one way or the other. He is arguably(only Austin & Rock come close)the biggest name in wrestling.

If he wasn't in it he would have to play nice and make sure it got over. Hogan wouldn't job to HBK when returned to the WWE so I see no reason why he would job to him back in 95/96. Same goes for Hart and Sting(we saw what creative control did to the Sting/Hogan Starrcade match).

As much as I can see HBK making it work I just don't see it becoming huge like it did with Hogan. The whole angle was just brilliant. Hats off to all those that made it work.

It really is a shame that WCW is gone. I love competition.

 

[DexVendetta88]

I couldn't imagine the nWo starting out without these 3 guys. In fact, the initial idea for the nWo was to make them look like invaders from the WWF. Also if you recall when Hogan was revealed to be the 3rd man, and during the interview he dropped a lot of WWF references (even though there wasn't any direct mention). Since Hall and Nash were relevant in the WWF at the time before coming down to WCW, WCW wanted to make them look like that they were gonna take over. If this was done with anyone else besides Hogan, Hall, and Nash then the nWo would have never lasted for more than a year.

 

[Барбоса]

I see the early success of the nWo as a combination of three major factors and I do not think that other stars could have made it work as well as Hogan, Hall and Nash, with the possible exception of Bret Hart.

a) Due to their contract circumstances and the fact that they had been high profile competitors in "New York" made their invasion seem credible at the outset. It established the doubt in the more knowledgeable fans' minds that these guys might actually be outsiders. This was extremely important and the only way to garner this impact was to have recognisable faces from the other company. It probably helped even more than both Hall and Nash had competed for WCW so they could be seen even more as McMahon-endorsed insurgents, having gone to WWF and "seen the light."

b) It really goes without saying that the Bash at the Beach was pivotal to the progress of the nWo. For the Hero of Heroes to turn on the fans and the company he worked for, again with the hint of him working for McMahon, gave the nWo all the momentum it could possibly need.

c) I think one of the major things that Hall and Nash had going for them was their size. They looked dangerous and more than capable of bullying others around the way they were going to. When their numbers were low, you had to believe that the nWo could handle themselves physically and with Hogan, Hall and Nash, all well over 6ft 5in and built like brick shithouses, they had that in abundance.

Whilst not the most menacing looking superstar, I think that Bret Hart could easily have stepped into the leadership role that Hogan assumed at a later date. He had already proven himself a capable leader of a heel faction with the Hart Foundation in its feud with Austin and of course, despite the Screwjob, he had long standing ties with McMahon. Indeed, the Screwjob could have been played up as this epic swindle to get Hart into WCW to tear it down from the inside.

However, I do not see the "cool" factor of the nWo to be a positive, particularly in the long run. Short term, it sold t-shirts and may have made the company some cash but at the same time it was creating something that was not only an uncontrollable monster but also a crutch. The creative control that the success brought the likes of Hall and Nash were ruinous to WCW and the "coolness" of the nWo meant that it stayed around far beyond it's welcome and WCW would see it as a "full-proof" way it increase ratings but the continued reincarnations were destructive.

 

[rokuma]

In 1996 the closest thing i could think of involving three other guys would be Shawn Michaels and Triple H defecting to WCW and joining Ric Flair or Randy Savage

This wouldn't have worked...in 96, HHH was still Hunter Hearst Helmsley and a lowcard/jobber still. He hadn't even won the IC title, much less become a household name. The only one I could think of working would've been HBK for either Hall or Nash (preferably Hall to reunite the Dudes with Attitudes since they had on-screen history). HBK was the WWF's main guy in 96 and would've been able to antagonize the crowd. Bret Hart had the star power, but was ALWAYS a beloved good guy in the WWF, so I don't see it working. That was basically it from the 1996 WWF.

 

[Davi323]

Hulk Hogan had the star power, but was ALWAYS a beloved good guy in the WWF, so I don't see it working.

FIXED.

In fact, I would argue that it was because Hulk Hogan was the #1 face throughout his WWF career that helped the nWo so successful. I think it had to be those three guys. The entire Outsiders angle was built as an invasion from the WWF, even though they couldn't actually mention that for legal purposes. WCW did everything they could to convince the fans that Hall and Nash were still employed by the WWF when they weren't. At first, the nWo was set up as a renegade group trying to invade/take over WCW from the outside. You simply could not have done this with WCW wrestlers, for obvious reasons. Nobody would believe it if it was composed of all guys that already in WCW. Hall and Nash not being televised as current wrestlers on the WCW roster was vital to the success of the nWo.

Then, when they mentioned a third member, you knew it had to be an ex-WWF guy, and that it had to be someone big enough to provide that shock value. Hulk Hogan was the perfect choice, because NOBODY ever thought that he could ever be a bad guy. The inclusion of Hulk Hogan gave the nWo immediate credibility as being big time, and Hogan's heel turn rejuvenated a career that was on the fast track towards irrelevancy. If the 3rd member is Randy Savage, who had shifted between face and heel his entire career, you lose that element of surprise. Hulk Hogan was the absolute perfect choice to be the 3rd member. Nobody else could have provided the same amount of shock value.

It couldn't have been Bret Hart, the timing simply does not work. The Outsiders made their first appearance on Nitro on May 27, 1996. Bret Hart was still under contract with the WWF for another year and a half. The Montreal Screwjob didn't occur until November 1997. It simply could not have been Bret. Contracts are a bitch. Not only that, but since when was Bret Hart always a good guy in the WWF? There was a time when he was one of the most hated wrestlers on the roster to all non-Canadians.

 

[rokuma]

Not only that, but since when was Bret Hart always a good guy in the WWF? There was a time when he was one of the most hated wrestlers on the roster to all non-Canadians.

Um, how about since the Hart Foundation split up and he won the IC title in 1991? He didn't become the most hated heel until 1997 when SCSA was on the rise. From 1992-1996, he was arguably the biggest face on the roster and absolutely beloved by fans. He always got great reactions from the crowd. Even during the Iron Man Match with HBK, it was literally half HBK, half Hitman fans (Lawler even commented on it)

And actually, his contract status was up in the air...after WM 12 against HBK, he was off TV and technically a free agent. He COULD HAVE been the 3rd man. But would the impact have still been there? Not until 1997, after the screwjob...he just too beloved. Meanwhile, fans were turning on Hogan...and had been sick of his schtick for years. Him being the third man was brilliant. I remember at the time several of my friends thought 1-2-3 Kid (Sean Waltman) was the third guy. It was really expected than a WWFer was going to be the third guy...That's why I think the only other alternative was HBK...they had the Kliq connection and he was a big enough star and brilliant as a heel. It would've been epic.

 

[HeenanGorilla]

oh dear, is this thread serious??? The nWo would not have gotten over anywhere near it did without the three guys Hall Nash and Hogan. For the angle to work, it had to have guys who were previous stars in WWE and now under contract to WCW. The intention was for the viewer to believe the nWo were a grioup of ex WWE employees looking to start warfare with WCW. Based on that being fact, I dont think Big Bossman and Earthquake turning up and promising to shake things up would have workled bahahaha. And it only worked as Hall and Nash signed at that time. Hacksaw Duggan and Haku came over in 1994, ditto Honky Tonk Man, Iron Sheik, Brutus Beefcake. No, none of those guys would have worked at all. It had to be guys still AT THE TOP OF THEIR CAREERS. Sorry, but this thread is a tad silly in my opinion,. its like saying would the Four Horsemen been as over without Flair, Anderson and Blanchard.

Your Four Horseman analogy is very poor. It is a fair question--although I agree, the answer is obvious--to ask if other players could have allowed the NWO to work. The Four Horseman easily could have been made of four other guys. I am not saying they would have been as legendary; but, your analogy is really, really awful.

 

[thebarber]

I see the early success of the nWo as a combination of three major factors and I do not think that other stars could have made it work as well as Hogan, Hall and Nash, with the possible exception of Bret Hart.

a) Due to their contract circumstances and the fact that they had been high profile competitors in "New York" made their invasion seem credible at the outset. It established the doubt in the more knowledgeable fans' minds that these guys might actually be outsiders. This was extremely important and the only way to garner this impact was to have recognisable faces from the other company. It probably helped even more than both Hall and Nash had competed for WCW so they could be seen even more as McMahon-endorsed insurgents, having gone to WWF and "seen the light."

b) It really goes without saying that the Bash at the Beach was pivotal to the progress of the nWo. For the Hero of Heroes to turn on the fans and the company he worked for, again with the hint of him working for McMahon, gave the nWo all the momentum it could possibly need.

c) I think one of the major things that Hall and Nash had going for them was their size. They looked dangerous and more than capable of bullying others around the way they were going to. When their numbers were low, you had to believe that the nWo could handle themselves physically and with Hogan, Hall and Nash, all well over 6ft 5in and built like brick shithouses, they had that in abundance.

Whilst not the most menacing looking superstar, I think that Bret Hart could easily have stepped into the leadership role that Hogan assumed at a later date. He had already proven himself a capable leader of a heel faction with the Hart Foundation in its feud with Austin and of course, despite the Screwjob, he had long standing ties with McMahon. Indeed, the Screwjob could have been played up as this epic swindle to get Hart into WCW to tear it down from the inside.

However, I do not see the "cool" factor of the nWo to be a positive, particularly in the long run. Short term, it sold t-shirts and may have made the company some cash but at the same time it was creating something that was not only an uncontrollable monster but also a crutch. The creative control that the success brought the likes of Hall and Nash were ruinous to WCW and the "coolness" of the nWo meant that it stayed around far beyond it's welcome and WCW would see it as a "full-proof" way it increase ratings but the continued reincarnations were destructive.

Sorry dude, but based on your theory, Bret Hart would have been buried. The nWo invasion officially commenced May 27th, Halls first appearance. Nash June 10th and Hogan joining July 7th 1996. The screwjob did not happen until November 1997, nearly 18 months later. They could not have played off that at all, and did a shit job of using Bret when he came to WCW after the Montreal screwjob. Add to that the tension between Hogan and Hart relating back to mid 1993 when Hulk refused to put Hart over at Summerslam 1993 as originally scripted,even though Hart was off contract in mkid 1996 filming Lonesome Dove, he would not have been anywhere near as effective as Bret. HBK would never have jumped ship at that time, he was the WWE Champion in his first title reign, and Helmsley was locked well under contract and in the poo following the "curtain call" incident. Fact: there is nobody who could have made the group as enetertaining or believable as a takeover invasion than Hall, Nash and eventually Hogan.