Did the Attitude Era Ruin Wrestling??

[Spawn of Kane]

OK, hear me out. Before the title of the thread is taken out of context, i dont mean did it ruin wrestling as a whole, i mean did it ruin our expectations??

Whenever i read through these forums, there always seems to be someone starting a debate/argument....that the current PG format is ruining wrestling...and making it less fun to watch.....We need more blood....We need more Swearing ...etc..etc.

Now when i first starting watching wrestling in the early 1990's, guys like Hogan, Savage, Warrior etc...were all able to tell a story/work a feud...WITHOUT having to say ass every other sentence. Blood was also a Rarity.

Now don't get me wrong, i LOVED the attitude era....but i think that due the the overuse of blood, swearing etc....Fans expectations were pushed way too high....and now they demand it. Unless there is a curse word every other sentence and a gallon of blood every match...most of the ''fans'' just aren't satisfied.

So my question...Did the attitude era's overuse of blood and swearing push fans expectations too high...to the point where PG wrestling just doesn't suffice??

Thoughts??

 

[The Suplexer Perfecter]

Yes it did indeed. People keep measuring up whatever happens today in WWE to what happened during that era. Even though I do believe it was highly overrated. The mid card sucked from 98 to 2000. You had Val Venis as IC champion?

Main events were good, but that was only one or two matches.

It also made people expect huge bumps, chair shots, blood all the time, etc. But you don't have to be TV-14 to have good story lines and matches.

Back in the day, people would gasp at the site of ONE chair shot that looked ridiculous to someone's back. Now people need about 5 to go oh shit.

 

[CAPT SPAULD1NG8]

I don't think the Attitude Era ruined wrestling. I also believe it didnt effect our expectations. In fact i think if the WWE was they way it was during the Attitude Era i truly believe people would be getting sick of seeing all the hardcore matches, first blood matches, and all the other violent matches. look at what is happening now WWE thinks that if the fans like it then they should always see it rather then treating them to it once a year. Now we have a TLC ppv, an Elimination Chamber ppv, a Hell in a Cell ppv, etc. Instead of treating us with these pay per views every year we should only see them every few years.
I believe the Attitude Era contributed to alot of we see today. All the hardcore wrestling seen around the world. The attitude of the buisness change drastically. in the 80's it was a more family oriented program and once we got the likes of steve austin, shawn michaels, the rock, the undertaker, triple h, dx, and more screen time for vince mcmhaon, this is when the Attitude Era began. Then in the early 2000's VKM baught WCW. Thats when i think the wrestling world started to go down hill. With only one program wrestling started to get alittle stale. then in the mid 2000's wrestlers like John Cena, Eddie Guererro, Edge, Rey Mysterio, Randy Orton, Batista all started to break throught the main stream. Yes all these guys were good but they didnt have that attitude that Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, or HBK had so the landscape was forced to change. Then once Stone Cold and The Rock left it really changed the WWE.
WWE became more kid friendly when John Cena, Rey mysterio, Batista, and Eddie Guererro became the faces of the WWE. Towards the late 2000's alot of guys were leaving the company/buisness. Guys like Christian, Kurt Angle, The Dudley Boyz, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guererro, Batista, Ric Flair, Jeff hardy ect. were leaving the WWE and that left a huge gap so the WWE got crappy. NOw in 2011 WWE has one of the best Rosters in all of wrestling. They have guys like CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio, Dolph Ziggler, Randy Orton, John Morrison, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Wade Barrett, The Miz, Kofi Kingston, Jack Swagger, Cody Rhodes, Ted Dibiase Jr, Evan Bourne, Michael McGuillicutty, and David Hart Smith WWE has the youngest and brightest roster in the buisness today.
With everything I said I truly believe that the "PG" Era is accually an upgrade from what we have been seeing the past few years. It has brought us some of the best talents around the world. The PG Era is hear to stay and to be honest im happy about it because in a way i feel that it has made the WWE better.

 

[alexandriaalucy]

I honestly don't think it did. For its run, it was entertainment (hopefully something as entertaining comes along again soon). I feel that the big difference between 'Attitude' and 'PG' eras are that one was groundbreaking and the other is watered down. Don't get me wrong I understand the limits on blood due to the wrestler's health but the language thing is a whole diferent story. Hearing John Cena say 'malarkie' and apologizing for saying 'ass' is not entertainment, its more like watching a somewhat violent episode of Barney.

The Attitude Era was great, the PG era's a little bland but I know with Vince being the evil genius that he is, there is a way to have a new refined era using both ideas that isn't lame

 

[DForce]

I don't think it's that fans expect, or even desire, to see a whole lot of blood or hear a whole lot of cursing. I think that fans are more pissed that the option for blood and cursing is completely off the table. Personally, I don't want see blood or hear cursing, unless it's sold in the right way. Meaning, I don't want to see blood or hear cursing just for the hell of it. But without the option for blood and cursing, the writers are somewhat handicapped.

Quite personally, I don't miss the blood and cursing near as much as I miss the sex related stuff. Divas in skimpy attire and not full bathing suites is what I want. What I can do without, however, is stupid stuff like Hornswoggle versus the War Eagle. Lastly, I don't feel that the Attitude Era ruined prowrestling by giving viewers a superior product, one for which they crave even until this day.

 

[Mindshatter]

I do agree that it has put expectations too high.

However the thing as others have mentioned that I don't agree with is the fact swearing and blood is banned completely rather than just used now and again. I also don't like the whole thing with chair shots to the head, unprotected chair shots I have no problem with but surely if they get their hands up then there is no issue?

Overall there are areas where I agree the whole PG thing has gone too far and has got things wrong but I also don't have a problem with WWE not wanting to bust all their talent open every week.

 

[Sh0wst0pper]

I have to admit I was ready to pounce on you when I read the title of this thread, lol! On one hand I have to say YES, it has raised certain expectations that we fans who grew up through the Attitude Era were accustomed to. It was wild and over-the-top and IMO it was a better environment for the unexpected swerves that helped to make it so great. On the other hand I would say NO because, as you mentioned, guys like Hogan, Savage, etc told great stories without the benefit of the properties of the Attitude Era. I know many of today's stars grew up on those guys and therefore have been exposed to the concept of telling a story without R rated means. My thing is just don't insult my intelligence by making me swallow the PG BS. I PROMISE you that if you were to eavesdrop in a WWE locker room there wouldn't be a bunch of PG conversations. IMO there was a more realistic feel to the product during the Attitude Era because it more closely replicated real life. There can be a happy medium where the better qualities of both eras can be used and send more fans home happy.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

No, all in all it didn't ruin our expectations as fans.

Sure, the attitude era gave us a lot of violence, vulgar language and suggestive themes (to the point of sometimes being distasteful) but I don't think because of these things and the bar being pushed so much in the 90's that it ruined our expectations.

The way I see it is wrestling in general has taken a great dip in quality over the last 7-8 years. Fan's look at the Attitude era so fondly not because of a ridiculous amount of violence or sex, but because a lot of great things came out of this era. The Attitude era gave us HHH, The Rock, Austin, ect. , it gave us great matches and good, unpredictable storytelling that was compelling to watch. Quite frankly the Attitude era was must see TV and that is why the ratings were so high. The 80's was quality programming too, that's why people look back on it so fondly, but like you said, the 80's didn't have a lot of sex or blood, but if 80's wrestling proved anything its that sex and blood don't matter, quality programming matters.

I feel over the last year some wrestling shows have been getting better, but the fact is if you compare the quality of todays programming to the quality of yesteryear, its quite obvious that its no comparison. Here's how I see it, 80's was The Terminator, 90's was Terminator 2, and todays wrestling product is Terminator Salvation, its not bad but its not nearly as good as it used to be.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't think that Attitude Era ruined wrestling. During that time, the Attitude Era is what was needed for wrestling to seem meaningful to a lot of people. Gone were a lot of the cartoonish gimmicks/characters that had become something of a staple in the WWF. It had a harder, sharper edge to it that wrestling needed because television itself was changing. There were shows on television during the late 90s showing women sharing passionate kisses or using full blown swear words like shit during primetime or even network shows that showed at least partial nudity. These things were all extremely controversial for their time and the WWF changed it's format to better compete with whatever competition it had.

I do think, however, that expectations of many fans are far too high and unrealistic. While the Attitude Era was fun, it wasn't nearly the beacon of unparalleled greatness that so many of the IWC claim it to be. For every good storyline and feud going on, there was one that sucked ass out there. There were also certain segments shown on Raw during the AE that were just downright embarassing to watch. They might not have been corny attempts at comedy like we occassionally see on WWE programming today, but they were just as eye rollingly bad. Just because something generates controversy doesn't mean that it's good. Often times, the WWF did controversial things during the AE just for the sake of being controversial.

Today, things have changed again. The Attitude Era in and of itself was a fad. It burned white hot for a couple of years but the record ratings that Raw & SmackDown! drew during the AE began to quickly die out when the Monday Night Wars ended. This was long before the WWE went back officially to labeling itself with a PG rating format and I think too many fans conveniently forget about all this whenever it suits them.

You'll also see posts pop up every now and again titled "Who will be the next Stone Cold?" or "Who's the next Rock?" and so on and so forth and that's a problem too. Like the Attitude Era itself, a lot of wrestlers who were huge during that period are viewed by many with an overly inflated sense of greatness. Not that they weren't great mind you, but they're frequently fawned over on the net as if they were divine gifts from Heaven that did no wrong. Bullshit, I say. Pure and utter bullshit. Not every feud was an epic, not ever promo was a classic and not every match they were in were the stuff that legends are made of. Not by a long shot. For many within the IWC, a wrestler isn't a "good wrestler" if he can't match up on the mic with guys like Stone Cold or The Rock. A wrestler isn't a "good wrestler" if he's not on the same level as a Kurt Angle or a Shawn Michaels inside the ring.

It's not so much the Attitude Era itself that's hurt wrestling as it's the overly idealized and romanticized view so many fans have of it that's been a problem.

 

[MisterRob]

I think there could be a very good argument made that yes, the Attitude Era did ruin wrestling. It certainly didn't kill it by any means, but I think it did do a great deal of harm. Yes, the most obvious is the fact that it raised expectations which now exist in every fan who wants things the way they were in the Attitude Era, and compares everything to what happened in the Attitude Era. But there's far more then that that happened during or from the Attitude Era that has hurt the wrestling world of today.

Out of necessity things changed that probably shouldn't have. PPVs became every single month and overxposed the product, and I think that's really hurt the business now. Sure it may be good for profit to have PPVs every month, but back in the day fewer PPVs allowed for better build up to feuds, more meaningful matches. The Attitude Era and competition also raised the expectations for television, which has made matches less meaningful and overexposed stars.

It also took things like chair shots, blood, and so many other things and made them the norm instead of the rarer occurence that actually meant something when used. They were less emphasized, anyway.

It also resulted in, because of the Monday Night Wars, in the WWE becoming the monopoly it is now and therefore taken away competition which I think has hurt the business far more then just higher expectations from fans and people in general. I personally think that far worse then just higher expectations, wrestling became over exposed during the Attitude Era and that's what's REALLY hurt the business as a whole now a days. I honestly think WWE is being smart in the way they've changed their formula and begun to lower expectations gradually over the years. It's that very thing that may end up helping things, because the business always goes in phases and right now its a downtime where the WWE needs to be less "Attitude" and adult oriented so that when the next phase begins after what everyone's deeming the PG-Era, the business and people will be ready for it.

 

[Arkham Noir]

I don't know if ruined it is the right way of putting it, but it certainly left a great deal fans with enormous expectations. The stars were aligned for WWE during that period and alot fans came into WWE with no prior wrestling history. Those fans loved what was going on then, not realizing that WWE was putting out magic and that wasn't the norm.
I think alot of people do seem to have their heads stuck back than and seem to think that everything was perfect. I swear ,fans nowadays think the Attitude era was nothing but beer trucks and croch-chops. They did provide a ton of huge stars and pulled great ratings, but looking at the era as a whole leaves me feeling it might be a little over praised.

In the end, you really can't blame WWE for putting out their best effort. They drew crowds in and entertained them. If fans are let down by what happens after all the "highs" take place, than there really isn't anything that is going to change their minds.

The attitude era saved WWE , and fans need to remember what was happening in the bigger picture of professional wrestling (ie, the monday night wars). You can't expect WWE to keep dishing out that kind of quality ,and holding everything to that standard is ridiculous.

So to answer your initial question, yes, it may have caused an influx of over expectations, but it didn't ruin wrestling for those who were already fans to begin with.

 

[Slyfox696]

Of course the Attitude Era ruined wrestling, but not because we don't think anyone can live up to the standards of the Attitude Era, but because the Attitude Era was fucking awful, in terms of wrestling promotion.

I've said this many times over the years on this forum, the Attitude Era saved the WWF, but it's killed them for a decade since. Things which happened in the Attitude Era weren't awesome because of the wrestling flavor to them, they were awesome because they were shocking and new. To give an example people will understand more and agree with more, it's like how WCW used to hotshot titles in the Vince Russo era. It was interesting at first because of the novelty of everything, but then it wasn't new, and it showed just how terrible the booking was and not only did we tire of it, we turned it off.

The Attitude Era was the same way. Once beating up your boss and drinking beer was no longer new and exciting, and once telling people to stick things up their ass was no longer a novelty, look what happened to the wrestling business. After the WCW acquisition in 2001, the WWE business has done nothing but make a slow and steady downward trend.

Why? Because they alienated their core fanbase, and they still are working to get them back. As I've said before, wrestling caters to children and idiots, and they abandoned children in the Attitude Era. Many children weren't allowed to watch wrestling during the Attitude Era, and so, the fans they SHOULD have in the late teen to early 20s group just aren't there because they lost that foundation. People will blame the PG era, but that is a completely ignorant way to look at it. The PG era will serve as the foundation for the future generations of wrestling. The kids the WWE are marketing towards today will be the fans of tomorrow.

Why are targeting kids important? Because around the time people get in their early to mid twenties, they stop watching wrestling. It's just a historical trend we've seen over and over again. People have more important things to do as an adult than watch two sweaty men in their underwear grope each other and pretend fight. If you cater to teenagers, you get maybe 5 years out of them buying the show and watching the PPVs. But if you get them when they're 5 years old, you get to keep them for 15-20 years, and get all the money from them during that time. As I said, wrestling has always catered towards children and idiots, and this is why.

So yes, the Attitude Era did ruin wrestling, but not because the current era can't live up, but because it built a house with no foundation. And once the ground shifted (no Rock or Austin, steroid scandals, Benoit murder-suicide), the house came tumbling down. And now they have to build it back up again, this time with a solid foundation.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The Attitude Era certainly raised the expectations of wrestling fans but I do not think that anyone can say it ruined wrestling. WWF would not have survived without the Attitude Era, that fact is certain and if not WWF then WCW would have survived. If WCW would have survived then I'm pretty sure with the booking style they had, we would be still seeing the 768th edition of the NWO.

The Attitude Era, though, would have never been as successful or memorable among the fans had it not been for Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin. That is something that most fans do not get and that is also the reason why it gets romanticized. Replace Stone Cold in those segments he had with Mcmahon and Tyson with Chris Benoit and you will see what I mean. The Attitude Era was born because it suited Austin and Rock's style; it was an effect more than a cause.

Another thing that I cannot understand is what the OP means by "ruining wrestling". Sure there has been a huge decline in ratings and PPV buys but its not that the wrestling business has gone under. The decline in ratings and PPV buys can be attributed to a host of other reasons. If you mean that it gave the smarks something to talk about, then again you are wrong. Smarks would have always criticized this era perhaps using the Golden Era as an example had the Attitude Era not happened. Its just the nature of the smarks.

The Attitude Era was a neccesity for the WWF when it happened. But it was an exception to the rule rather than the norm. Yes the smarks should stop bitching about it but apart from that I cannot see it having a huge negative impact on the business.