Did CM Punk & Daniel Bryan Blaze A Trail?

[The Brain]

I don’t think I need to inform people that are part of an internet wrestling forum that WWE has signed a lot of independent talent over the past year or two. Many “indy internet darlings” have found their way to either the main roster or NXT. We’ve seen Kevin Steen, Prince Devitt, El Generico, Kenta, Samoa Joe, Nakamura, AJ Styles, and Austin Aries all arrive to the big time. I can’t help but wonder why the sudden influx of these indy veterans.

Let’s start with the thread title. For years CM Punk and Bryan Danielson were the top two indy names. They seemed to be a cut above the rest but were still a couple of big fish in some small ponds. Many fans were excited when they arrived in WWE but were understandably skeptical about how they would fare. It took a little while for each of them but they both went on to achieve tremendous success and popularity. Did the success of Punk and Bryan open the eyes of Vince and company to what the independents had to offer?

Or should I say Triple H and company? It’s said that Triple H is the driving force behind signing all this new talent. I know a lot of people think the day Vince steps down and HHH completely takes over we will see an overnight transformation into a fresh and exciting product. I have my doubts that WWE would be better without Vince McMahon than it is with him but Triple H does seem to be more willing to give more opportunities.

The answer may be even more simple. All these guys have been working for years. They’ve traveled the world and wrestled for different companies. Simply put, they’re experienced now. Grabbing these guys years ago when they were getting started wouldn’t have helped them. Ever since joining this forum I’ve said the dissolution of the territories has hurt the wrestling business. Guys were getting to the big leagues too young and not getting the needed experience. Wrestling doesn’t have to be a young man’s game. I’d rather watch an experienced wrestler in his 30s or even 40s than a novice in his 20s. Let them cut their teeth elsewhere and take advantage of their experience when the talent pool needs freshening.

That leads me to another question. Who’s next? WWE went on an indy shopping spree almost reminiscent of the national expansion of the mid 80s. Who are the indy darlings now that we can expect to see get the call up in a couple years and will they look at CM Punk and Daniel Bryan as their trailblazers?

 

[smizzy]

More importantly than simply just signing with WWE (or rather, received the opportunity) after runs on the indy circuit, they flourished, becoming polarizing figures.

I've repeatedly lost interest in WWE since 2010 and the following names have personally reeled me back in as a regular viewer: CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and to a degree Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins over the last year.

While this sentiment may not apply to many other people, if any, it is still undeniable that at specific times, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan were the guy that the majority of fans were buying tickets/fast-forwarding to on DVR to see. So therefore, if two 'indy' guys were able to reach those heights, why not keep rolling the dice on that pool of talent when thus far, it has exceeded expectations?

Reminds me of how it seems the Cuban oil field has been discovered by MLB over the last several years.

 

[TStorm]

I think it's pretty safe to say that CM Punk and Bryan both opened up doors for indy talent, and many indy talent will look at them, realizing that there is certainly a chance of making it big in the WWE.

I don't believe however it's had much of an influence on Vince, though I'm willing to believe it did on HHH. I think the fact that HHH was able to get Bruno of all people to come back to the WWE says a lot about the respect he has for the business, but I also think he understands that while homegrown talent is important to have, there isn't any issues with digging around the indies to find another big star.

I'd also be willing to believe that HHH has something of a better understanding about the importance of indy talent. Vince should though as well, but he's always been more focused around homegrown talent above all else, however in the territorial days, his entire roster was filled with 'mid-card' talent that were big names/talent from other promotions that were pushing majority of them as main event talent, his roster was stacked, with most of them being built in other areas before they moved over to his company.

I think both sides play an important role, you need the homegrown talent to prove that you have the ability to make those kind of stars simply by making them in your company, but indie talent provides different styles, different talent, more experienced talent in many ways.

That said, Punk and Bryan both did, of course with their ability in the ring, personality, gimmicks and the like, but they did a few more things in their time.

I think Punk opened the door with him being more vocal, you hear Austin say that people need to learn to speak up, Punk did just that, he got the people on his side, and more than likely, he earned Vince's respect for doing just that, he opened the door for talent to be more vocal, though I think his presence out of the locker-room has made something like that a bit more difficult than it could have been with him still in the locker-room. His ability speaks for itself, he had an abundance of it, but his words played a large role in the product at the time.

Bryan opened the door for pure raw talent to outweigh his size. He was smaller than most, but showed his personality and his talent and was more than capable of getting himself into that position. I do think Bryan was a big help in the size department (though many people got pretty far on size), but more importantly, showed that personality plays a role and that there are many people that are interested in the technical style that Bryan brought to the table, or wrestling in general. Bryan showed that while many people like the entertainment aspect of wrestling, many people like the wrestling aspect just as much.

 

[Navi]

When I look at the John Cena's and Randy Orton's of this world, I think if it wasn't for the CM Punk's and Daniel Bryan and others, who the hell would they be feuding with.

The WWE has been very lackluster in growing their own talent pool, and a guy like John Cena, still has some gas in the tank, can't go on forever. They are trying with Roman Reigns, but yea, he's working with kangaroo petrol. One day they love him, next day, no.

I don't think they have any choice but to bring in experienced wrestlers, in order to help the company grow, and where else would you find them, the indies. I know a lot of people here don't like the so called "indy darlings", but where would the Shield be without them, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose are of the two best they have now, and Rollins was ROH Champion.

You have the up and comers like Owens, Zayn, Balor, Samoa Joe, Styles and countless other's. One day when Cena goes part time and Orton's shoulder can't take it anymore, these are the guys that will be headlining Wrestlemania.

HHH has the right idea. The WWE doesn't have the time to grow their own superstars, so go out and get guys that are already established. That way the product stays fresh and interesting, while at the same time they are helping others that are shall we say a little green.

I have no idea who they are eyeing next, but at the rate new hires are coming in, wouldn't be surprised by anyone that signs really. So did Punk and Bryan blaze a trail, well, they were given the ball and they ran with it. So yea they opened the door for others, now it's up to the new guys to keep that ball in play.

 

[ghost94]

I don't think it really opened Vince's eyes. I think anyone that's not his little pretty boy doesn't get a chance, doesn't matter if they're homegrown talent that's been scouted or an indy darling, bodybuilders are the guys who Vince likes, I think Indy guys getting in has been because of people like Paul Heyman. Very good talkers in real life, lawyer type guys like that.

Triple H definitely likes in-ring story telling, he knows these experienced guys can do it, they don't have the production value in other companies that WWE has, and can't cut and edit promos together to tell a story to millions of people. They have to tell a great story to an arena with only $100 to feed their families, they're damn good wrestlers. Triple H knows that, so of course he brings them in, it's the product he wants. He wants to take a diamond and polish it, take something great and make it better.

The one thing that can be said for territories was the travelling within the territory, more time spent together and wrestlers learning from each other. But, it's really a generational thing. If a wrestler wants to learn, he can connect to his buddies on Facebook, and have them 24/7 to talk wrestling, WWE Network, no more tape trading, you can sit and watch and watch and talk and talk wrestling and learn so much, honing your craft. The bitching about no territories is unncessary to be honest.

They could sign Roderick Strong and he'd make an instant impact. Zack Sabre Jr. would be a interesting prospect.

 

[Messiah]

Daniel Bryan is the main reason WWE has signed all these Indy guys.. WWE looked at his success and decided to go after these guys, they don't care what organization they've worked for.. I really don't know what CM Punk has to do with this, he was signed year's ago and WWE never gave a shit about him.. He was just some indy guy they signed who realized he didn't belong there.. It was when Bryan became mega popular, WWE realized these guys can actually draw money and connect with the audience.. I'm sure many smaller men and Indy talent look up to Daniel Bryan, if it wasn't for him, many guys like Kalisto, Samoa Joe, Kevin Owens might not be in WWE.

 

[TStorm]

Daniel Bryan is the main reason WWE has signed all these Indy guys.. WWE looked at his success and decided to go after these guys, they don't care what organization they've worked for.. I really don't know what CM Punk has to do with this, he was signed year's ago and WWE never gave a shit about him.. He was just some indy guy they signed who realized he didn't belong there.. It was when Bryan became mega popular, WWE realized these guys can actually draw money and connect with the audience.. I'm sure many smaller men and Indy talent look up to Daniel Bryan, if it wasn't for him, many guys like Kalisto, Samoa Joe, Kevin Owens might not be in WWE.

Punk's role comes in the fact that he brought up the issues. He was the one that did the promo that turned heads, he was the one that spoke about the problems that many were feeling about the product at the time, he brought up the look that was needed, and despite not having that look, he got over, not because of the WWE, because he got himself over.

The more vocal Punk became, the more vocal that the crowds would become, the more vocal the crowds became, the more things started to change.

This doesn't take into account Punk's own personal successes, merchandise sales that showed him capable to be a draw with fans (he topped Cena of all people), and general reaction. It's hard to argue that he isn't a draw especially when Dana White picked him up. There is no denying that Bryan had a ton of success, but it's hard to deny that Punk didn't.

Looking at the situation, Punk brought it up, Punk fought the issues as much as he could (and got pretty far, with the only thing alluding him that main event position), and the crowd and Bryan completed it and pushed Bryan into the main event position.

Bryan even went on record (Jericho's podcast) that without Punk leaving, he wouldn't have reached that point in time. Punk's leaving was only magnified with him leaving right at the point where Bryan was white-hot. Now I'm not going to say Punk planned it or anything, but his role in the situation did play a large role.

It was a joint effort from all parties. In the end, the fans came out winners, we got to see great talents in the ring, our "guys" if you will, and though one left, and the other retired, we're getting an influx of more talent coming along.

 

[Alex]

Daniel Bryan is the main reason WWE has signed all these Indy guys.. WWE looked at his success and decided to go after these guys, they don't care what organization they've worked for.. I really don't know what CM Punk has to do with this, he was signed year's ago and WWE never gave a shit about him.. He was just some indy guy they signed who realized he didn't belong there.. It was when Bryan became mega popular, WWE realized these guys can actually draw money and connect with the audience.. I'm sure many smaller men and Indy talent look up to Daniel Bryan, if it wasn't for him, many guys like Kalisto, Samoa Joe, Kevin Owens might not be in WWE.

Er you do know that CM Punk did the whole pipebomb thing in 2011 and the Yes movement didn't really gain traction till 2012 right.

Say what you want about Punk but he helped start the signing of indy talent. Heck I'm sure they wouldn't have signed Bryan if Punk wasn't there to start with. Punk had done with the Jeff Hardy feud and the Straight Edge Society which showed that indy talent could do well in WWE. Top that off with when the pipebomb came it helped revitalise WWE. People wanted to know what the hell was happening and that was due to former indy wrestler CM Punk.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I give most credit to the internet, the Network, and NXT. It has given guys like Bryan, Punk (to a lesser extent), Ambrose, Rollins and Owens a fan base that would not previously exist.

I mean, it's not like Vince has refused to sign guys from other smaller promotions. He used to be the guy that was notorious for putting others out of business by signing away their talent. Granted, he seemed to move away from that in the mid '00s but there is a ton of precedence of him signing guys who were many years in to a career from places a limited number of folks had ever heard of.

The difference today is that a guy who wrestled in Japan or toured gymnasiums is having their matches recorded and put out on YouTube for the world to see. Edge and Christian didn't have that but they certainly had years of experience "somewhere else" when Vince signed them.

Punk and Bryan did well with what they were given but it's not like they were given nothing and turned it to gold. Punk got titles, mic time, and big wins. Bryan got titles, a ton of attention, a ton of match time, a ton of girlfriends, and the best storyline of the last ten years.

Vince loved these guys. He didn't care where they came from. They came in and worked hard for a little money and proved themselves to earn more.

Edit: one could argue against signing Indy guys due to the fact that both Punk (injuries, attitude) and Bryan (injuries) didn't have the longevity that we see in the top WWE stars (i.e. Cena, Orton, Kane, Show, UT).

 

[Jack-Hammer]

To some degree, I have to say yes. As has been pointed out, they did help to change WWE's perspective on indie talent, but it wasn't all just them. NXT is also a huge reason as to why WWE's method of scouting talent has changed; Triple H also deserves some credit as he has a good eye for talent, has made up his staff of guys who have great eyes for talent and he's a wrestler who isn't ashamed of being a wrestler.

I don't know that Punk will get as much credit as he deserves, at least not for quite a while unless fences mend between himself and WWE, because he's such an abrasive personality who gets off on being abrasive and confrontational. It's easier for Bryan to be praised by WWE, and by a good deal of fans for that matter, because he's a genuinely nice guy.

People will debate and argue over their influence or how many doors they opened. However, in Bryan's case, we saw an example of him being something of a trail blazer Monday night. I mean...think about it, when Daniel Bryan showed up in WWE 6 years ago, a guy who was basically Mr. Indie, could you have imagined he'd be getting such a send off that included Vince McMahon standing on the stage cheering for him and wiping tears out of his eyes while doing so? If someone would have even suggested the remotest possibility in February 2010, I'd have patted them on the head, grinned in a friendly manner and backed away slowly without taking my eyes off them.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I don't know that Vince McMahon's 'eyes have been opened'.....at this point in his life and career, I don't know that they can be opened.

Fortunately, we have Triple H, and he's the reason these positive changes are taking place, imo. Trips was already solidly entrenched in management when guys like Punk and Bryan were brought aboard......if McMahon failed to see the value in scouting guys from the indies, you can be sure that Triple H didn't miss it.

When Triple H got his NXT plan in motion, it became an even more efficient and effective method of operation......and based on this, during a period of time WWE superstars were dropping like flies, Trips finally got McMahon to bring in guys like AJ Styles and Samoa Joe.....people whom McMahon had resisted hiring before.

As I see it, it's not so much that Punk & Bryan blazed a trail......nor did Vince McMahon.

It was Paul Levesque, Triple H and the Cerebral Assassin. Those 3 guys.

 

[YatesA]

Messiah is so bitter towards Punk its actually hilarious. Punk kept me watching WWE after The Rock got me to watch when he returned to host WM. John Cena didn't do that, Randy Orton didn't do that, CM Punk did. And of course Bryan took Punks momentum and ran with it and now we have all the well deserved indie guys getting a chance.

 

[MoRtAnDaD]

I think CM Punk open the door and basically became the first INDY guy to achieve top star status on WWE.

Bryan followed him to became the FACE and had an entire 8 month program that concluded in the 30th aniversary of wrestlemania being molded around him. Which is A BIG node, honestly i have never thought i would see that.

True to be told, both of these men ARE/WERE too good, its not the norm, these guys were on a league of their own. That also helped in their WWE careers.

And now seeing Rollins run last year, you can tell that the mindset has changed and its open to give the ball to young/not wwe made guys.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

More like fanbasis of independent talents. I remember the time when Bryan came to NXT. He was biggest star there and only one who was recognised as somebody who acctually had pretty big career outside of WWE. Its more easy to do anything with someone who allready has some reputation then with someone who WWE has to build from scratch. Not to mention years and years of experience these guys have which makes them almost veterans in comparesing with guys like Strowman who are nobody when they come in WWE and have no in-ring experience at all. And Vince is smart man to realise that there is quicker money if he gets allready experienced wrestler then if he needs to make one from scratch.

 

[S.J. Maximus]

I have tremendous respect for the Brain and I commonly find myself agreeing with (or at the very least respecting) his opinion. This thread is hardly an exception, but I think it's somewhat unfair to put Daniel Bryan on the same pedestal as Punk in this specific regard.

I literally logged into this site to make a thread focused on how the IWC has forgotten what Punk has done for this business simply because of how he left it, and the thesis of this thread was one of my main points. CM Punk alone was the pioneer for indie wrestlers making it big in WWE. He was there 4 years earlier, made a bigger splash and arguably left a bigger legacy (although his will be shunned while Bryan's will be celebrated) than Bryan did during their respective WWE careers. CM Punk was one of the hottest heels in wrestling and a 3-time World Champion before Daniel Bryan was even signed, so how can DB possibly get any credit for the trail CM Punk blazed? Don't get me wrong, Bryan's popularity eventually surpassed Punk's in 2014 but this was after Punk had already led the way. He was the first of his kind, and now we see guys like Seth Rollins and Kevin Owens dominating the biggest wrestling company in the world.

And by the way, Triple H had nothing to do with the ascension (no pun intended) of CM Punk. He was practically set up to fail, but kept fighting and fighting. He lost his first title reign in the most embarassing way possible (vacated after a random Randy Orton punt) and still rose above that to have the longest WWE Championship reign of the modern era. That promo wasn't the brainchild of Vince McMahon or Arn Anderson, it was CM Punk going off the cuff. Other than Heyman, it would really be hard for me to give someone else credit for the path that CM Punk led during his WWE career.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but to answer your question Brain, I think he did blaze a trail and opened the door for any successful wrestler from any promotion to have a shot at superstardom at WWE.

 

[enviousdominous]

It seems like Vince has been made aware of something that he seemed to have known full well back in the mid 1980's, that it's better to hire up people who have at least a decade of experience under their belt. I think he drifted away from that idea because he falsely considered himself a genius who could just build the talent on his own from the ground up, thus eliminating the threat of a competitor's newly acquired talent undermining his homegrown talent.

Bryan Danielson and Phil Brooks were world famous well before they came to the WWE, thus their debuts were met with raucous cheers from the smarks because they recognized them and from the marks because marks are basically down for whatever.

Let's look back to Ted Dibiase, he already had an "everyone has a price" gimmick being fleshed out in his final year at Mid-South. He, Jim Duggan and Junkyard Dog were able to practice their moves and mic skills under less scrutiny. By the time they made it to the WWF, they were good for tv.

By hiring up Shinsuke, Steen, Styles and Devitt their only worry is if they can apply their style to Kevin Dunn's fucked up directorial techniques. Hopefully this is a sign that Vince is more comfortable accepting that people grow better when they're not working for a deranged maniac like him.

 

[mral82]

Nope As it Was The ECW's and AWA's that did more than Punk or Bryan of ROH Fame as if it weren't for Vince McMahon rehiring Hulk Hogan from the AWA then The Bryan's or Punk's or whomever else wouldn't be Around or the WWF/WWE wouldn't still be here at all.
So as for Newer Guys/Gals idk whom maybe a Guy like Dalton Castle or Moose from ROH are a cpl of the Top Breakouts from there and as far as TNA maybe a guy like DJZ, A Rehiring of Michael Hutter aka EC3.
Plus you've got Magnus whom would be a Great Grab for the WWE as he's the Same age as Seth Rollins and Bray Wyatt.

 

[rmp0012002]

An indie like ROH is just like a territory to Vince years ago. You can grab an indie promotions guys since it's easier to bring in guys that are already stars then wasting time and money hoping a guy in developmental turns into something usable. It's also done hoping you won't watch that promotion anymore and watch WWE instead.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

WWE has signed a lot of talented wrestlers from the independent circuit over the last two-three years.

CM Punk and Daniel Bryan's success opened up WWE's eyes to how talented and successful these wrestlers can be.

Also, Triple H having a little more "power" certainly helped. He has a great mind for wrestling and knows how good these indy wrestlers are.

As for the next indy wrestlers WWE could sign, there are a lot of candidates. I'd like to see them sign Adam Cole.

 

[sabataged]

I have tremendous respect for the Brain and I commonly find myself agreeing with (or at the very least respecting) his opinion. This thread is hardly an exception, but I think it's somewhat unfair to put Daniel Bryan on the same pedestal as Punk in this specific regard.

I literally logged into this site to make a thread focused on how the IWC has forgotten what Punk has done for this business simply because of how he left it, and the thesis of this thread was one of my main points. CM Punk alone was the pioneer for indie wrestlers making it big in WWE. He was there 4 years earlier, made a bigger splash and arguably left a bigger legacy (although his will be shunned while Bryan's will be celebrated) than Bryan did during their respective WWE careers. CM Punk was one of the hottest heels in wrestling and a 3-time World Champion before Daniel Bryan was even signed, so how can DB possibly get any credit for the trail CM Punk blazed? Don't get me wrong, Bryan's popularity eventually surpassed Punk's in 2014 but this was after Punk had already led the way. He was the first of his kind, and now we see guys like Seth Rollins and Kevin Owens dominating the biggest wrestling company in the world.

And by the way, Triple H had nothing to do with the ascension (no pun intended) of CM Punk. He was practically set up to fail, but kept fighting and fighting. He lost his first title reign in the most embarassing way possible (vacated after a random Randy Orton punt) and still rose above that to have the longest WWE Championship reign of the modern era. That promo wasn't the brainchild of Vince McMahon or Arn Anderson, it was CM Punk going off the cuff. Other than Heyman, it would really be hard for me to give someone else credit for the path that CM Punk led during his WWE career.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but to answer your question Brain, I think he did blaze a trail and opened the door for any successful wrestler from any promotion to have a shot at superstardom at WWE.

I agree with everyone you said except the finaly conclusion that it was Punk that opened the doors for Indy wrestlers in WWE. Yes Punk was the top Indy talent when he signed for WWE. He because successful and helped open the door for Daniel Bryan in 2009. At this time WWE was still not signing a bunch of Indy talent. It wasn't until Daniel Bryan was really getting over on that stupid game show NXT that WWE started signing more indy talent. I think the powers to be realized people do know wrestlers outside of WWE as he was getting some pretty large pops.

CM Punk's legacy unfairly gets judged because of the person he was. He was an admitted asshole. Daniel Bryan was a company man who literally did whatever was asked from him. He got over not because the company got behind him, but because the fans demanded it. Punk cannot say this. Punk was given several top level pushes my the company. Even in his exit he was getting a "main event" match against HHH at WM. Daniel Bryan, in the middle of the yes movement, was going to get a match against Sheamus. He was being stuffed into a program with the Wyatts.

Your bias towards CM Punk is laughable to say no one is responsible for his success. If they didn't want him to succeed they would not have given him a 400 day title run or multiple money in the banks. No one and I mean no one, not even John Cena, was getting the pops Daniel Bryan was during the lead up to WM30. Punk never heard that sound in his whole career.

 

[boywithbluehanger]

This is a bit of an unpopular opinion but I believe that CM Punk and Daniel Bryan have done both good and bad for indy wrestlers who make it to the WWE.

The Good:

Punk and DB both showed that they could cut decent promos and attain the appeal of the live audience. All the while putting on entertaining matches.


The Bad:

Punk coming across as (what some may call) ungrateful for the very lopsided amount of perks and accolades he achieved from mid 2011-2013 and walking out on the company after the fact, probably affected the executives' opinion of indy wrestlers. Daniel Bryan suffering major injuries during the peak of his WWE career, likely did not help that opinion as well. Sadly the same could be said of Seth Rollins.


NXT is basically WWE's way of infiltrating the indy-wrestling market while simultaneously developing talent. This plan was in place before Punk's main event tenure with the company. So really Punk, Bryan, and NXT (and whoever is truly the brains behind it) is the trailblazer here. WWE truly upgraded their own "indy" wrestling promotion (FCW) to combat the critical internet fanbase. Now internet fans often speak of NXT in a similar respected manner they did for ROH and other less-popular promotions in the country. Through NXT, indy wrestlers from elsewhere have the opportunity to be reintroduced so that they can get their shot in WWE. Also, WWE can push completely green guys (like Roman Reigns) that they would like to see succeed.

Because of all of "The Bad", I'd say indy wrestlers STILL have much to prove to WWE execs that they are the way to go in the company's main event future. WWE has made it clear that they want at least 1 durable and very appealing man at the forefront of the company for at least a 6-10 year span. Punk (for many reasons I probably disagree with) wasn't up to the challenge. Bryan physically was unable. And the jury's still out on Rollins. However if he can do it, then it should be seen as a large victory for indy wrestlers everywhere...and in part thanks to NXT.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I hope so. Talent should always be the most important piece when deciding who goes to the top and who doesn't. Size and look are less important to fans today than ever before. And I don't mean internet fans, I mean the majority of fans. Smarks will cheer whoever seems least likely to make it just to seem like rebels. Casual fans actually identify with wrestlers, so the roided up monsters are fading, which is fine with me.

 

[Piss Bucket]

I'll probably get an infraction for "spamming" for this but I don't give a shit.

CM Puke (bite me) is an overrated Internet Darling who does 6 moves and is VERY boring on the microphone IMHO, all he talks about is how he "thinks" he's Best in the World!

And Daniel Bryan, aka Mr Overrated himself, is an overrated little guy who does 7 moves, OK he's about 3 inches taller than me, but I'm about half a stone lighter (7 lbs)

 

[MCMG]

Well it depends, was there a trail to be blazed? Punk debuted only 5 years after WCW closed down. Was that long enough to make a decision about the status of indie guys?

I'm not so sure. Punk was World Champ only 2 years later. He obviously went through his troubles but that is a pretty swift career trajectory. A similar story occurred with Bryan who won a World Title early one. Indeed, it took a while for both to really break through as main-event guys and that is where the difference occurs.

To say Punk and Bryan blazed a trail is probably correct. They have set the foundations for future indie guys. The quality of these two superstars are on par with top guys of any era, that is true. It shows that the WWE can put stock into anyone regardless of their background.

My argument against is that Vince has never been afraid to push guys that weren't his own. Jericho got there, eventually. Big Show, Van Dam, Benoit, Eddie, Rey all got pushes despite being big deals elsewhere. Yes all, undoubtedly, struggled but their accomplishments are just as impressive as Punk and Bryan's. In the case of Benoit, Eddie and Rey, they definitely didn't fit the WWE mould but smashed down that barrier. Would Punk have made it if Benoit had not succeeded just years before?

The WWE knows talent doesn't grow on trees. They were lucky with that OVW generation which created 4 HOF stars; one of whom is on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling. The reality is that, by law of averages, this cannot and will not be replicated. The indie scene (or non-WWE scene can) therefore compliment this because, guess what, there is nowhere else to get talent from.

So WWE will continue to take talent from the indies, or if you like ROH. Adam Cole is probably the next to breakout at Owens/Zayn level. The Young Bucks, if they ever sign, will have all the momentum in the world and will receive a massive push irrespective of their actual talent. This system was definitely aided by Punk and Bryan but I don't think there was enough time to suggest the WWE would never use indie guys.

I suppose another question is, would Ambrose and Rollins be treated as such stars if it weren't for Punk and Bryan's success? For that, I have no real answer but it couldn't have hurt that two guys came along and proved that the WWE doesn't need legit competition nor do they need to rely on developmental to create top stars.

 

[hollowpoint]

I won't attribute the influx of Indy talent solely on CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. Sure they made it possible for Indy guys to believe it could happen, but for everyone that makes it from the Indies, there are 10 guys that don't pan out. HHH is one of the biggest advocates for recruiting guys from the Indys so it was only a matter of time before his influence made it possible for some of these guys to shine, but as long as Vince is in power, he wants the bigger, stronger, beachbody looking dudes over the small guys that can fly all over the place. He's always had it like this and until he's not in power anymore, he always will want it like this. Vince loves using the phrase "larger than life". I don't think his mindset will change anytime soon.