D'Angelo Dinero Says He's Done With TNA

[klunderbunker]

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/269101/Pope-DAngelo-Dinero-Done-With-TNA.htm

From his Twitter feed:

Pope's Contract expired with TNA on Jan 1, I will not be resigning. Thanks to Dixie and the whole TNA Family for a wonderful 3+ Years.~PHS

At the end of the day, the guy has barely done anything in over a year and he was only back for a few months on his last return. He showed some potential back in 2010 but since then there hasn't been much to talk about with him.

Thoughts?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Shit KB, I was gonna make this thread. I read the story myself just about 2 minutes ago.

I can't say that I'm surprised. The Pope hasn't been a priority in TNA for a very long time. It's been pretty obvious that Pope wasn't all that important to TNA officials. Looking back on it, the guy's crowning achievement was winning a tournament a few years back. I'm a little surprised that he didn't get at least one run as X Division or Legends/Global/TV Champion.

No big loss for TNA though.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I dunno what the deal is/was with Pope. They had a ton of momentum behind him when he first came in, and every few months that momentum seemed to continually be cut out from under him, be it by himself or others. I know Yanks will come in here raving about how poor of a speaker he was because of some specific instances in his speech pattern, but this guy had everything you needed to succeed — gimmick, adequate ring talent and personality, so I honestly don't know what went wrong, or why. I just know it's upsetting to realize that TNA never got to capitalize on a young and really talented wrestler who could have made himself and the company a ton of money in the process.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Shit KB, I was gonna make this thread. I read the story myself just about 2 minutes ago.

I can't say that I'm surprised. The Pope hasn't been a priority in TNA for a very long time. It's been pretty obvious that Pope wasn't all that important to TNA officials. Looking back on it, the guy's crowning achievement was winning a tournament a few years back. I'm a little surprised that he didn't get at least one run as X Division or Legends/Global/TV Champion.

No big loss for TNA though.

I don't buy this for one second. Look around these forums right now. Notice much X Division talk? Because I sure don't. Know why? Because there essentially is no X Division left. You don't think Pope could have changed/helped that?

Obviously this isn't a tremendous loss, like losing one of the more defining performers (Styles, Sting, etc.), but this isn't just a sweep-it-under-the-rug moment either.

I realize he's been off television a while, but Pope had a ton of talent and was well received when he was on television, even through the least interesting feuds he's done (hi, Devon's kids).

 

[Cereal Killer]

I don't blame him. He has the potential and all but TNA just never used him correctly. 2009 he started off feuding with Suicide which got him some momentum, in 2010 he had world title shots and teamed with Nash and Sting, in 2011 he barley did anything and the same thing happened last year.

Why TNA? He has the skills and like HGR said, TNA needs younger stars. This is a progress because T Pope is still young and has plenty of talent. I'm all for Pope and him leaving was a wise move.

As far as him going to the WWE goes, maybe no because he already had a shot and for that, I just don't think they'll take him on. Maybe a ROH move like Jay Lethal? He would be a top start there as they tend to push misused talent from WWE and TNA.

 

[klunderbunker]

I don't buy this for one second. Look around these forums right now. Notice much X Division talk? Because I sure don't. Know why? Because there essentially is no X Division left. You don't think Pope could have changed/helped that?

No, he wouldn't have. Rob Van Dam is currently the champion and he's a former World Champion in two companies. If TNA isn't going to give the division time to be interesting, no one as champion is going to help it. The X Division is interesting one time a year and that's around Destination X. Why is it interesting/good then? It's because the division gets focus. Until then, Steve Austin could win the title and he wouldn't get the division anywhere.

 

[midgensa]

I don't see this as a huge loss, but I do see this as a wasted opportunity by TNA.

I think that Pope definitely had a lot going for him a couple of years ago and was pretty solid television. He seemed like a solid hybrid that could be a very believable heel one week and be a very believable face the next ... and those are always good to have on the roster.

It seems clear that he and management had a problem with each other at some point and his direction and then some slight injuries seemed to slow him ... but it is a shame that they did not keep moving forward with his development and see where he could have ended up.

Not a huge loss because he has not been much of anything for a while ... but still seems like they screwed the pooch on this one.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

No, he wouldn't have. Rob Van Dam is currently the champion and he's a former World Champion in two companies. If TNA isn't going to give the division time to be interesting, no one as champion is going to help it. The X Division is interesting one time a year and that's around Destination X. Why is it interesting/good then? It's because the division gets focus. Until then, Steve Austin could win the title and he wouldn't get the division anywhere.

I didn't say that Pope as champion would fix that. I said look at the division in shambles. You don't think Pope would help to fix that? I do. No single champion is going to fix it. What fixes it is feuds over that title by performers people want to see winning it. No one cares about Ion. No one cares about Kash. These guys are filler, not future stars, so the idea that someone with the potential to be a future star (Pope) wouldn't help by adding much needed depth to the division is off the mark IMO.

He adds viable depth, unlike the generic trash they've been parading about the division the last two years.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

He came, he had a small run with momentum behind him as a heel, they turned him face and from there was a slippery slope into irrelevancy, compounded by a proneness to injury and creative's lack of knowledge on exactly what to do with him. Not only that but as a wrestler hes not very good. Hes had to combat public insults from CM Punk just after the worked promo on Raw when Punk's words and opinions were seen by many as their most biblical and he had that incident with Marty Jannetty at an indy show which made him come across like an ass.

It's not a loss to the company and it doesn't effect the roster. I can name six black wrestlers on the indies with the same level of charisma but with much more ability.

 

[klunderbunker]

I didn't say that Pope as champion would fix that. I said look at the division in shambles. You don't think Pope would help to fix that? I do. No single champion is going to fix it. What fixes it is feuds over that title by performers people want to see winning it. No one cares about Ion. No one cares about Kash. These guys are filler, not future stars, so the idea that someone with the potential to be a future star (Pope) wouldn't help by adding much needed depth to the division is off the mark IMO.

He adds viable depth, unlike the generic trash they've been parading about the division the last two years.

But IDR, Zema Ion has hairspray! HAIRSPRAY!

I get what you mean, but at the end of the day, if they don't let the whole division have more than four minutes a week, the roster doesn't matter at all. Look back at WCW. They had some of the most generic luchadores around but they were on TV and getting the crowd fired up by just being on TV. The talent level in the division can be overlooked if given the focus, which the division simply doesn't get no matter who is in it.

 

[Slyfox696]

Wow, big surprise. A guy who absolutely sucked in the WWE washed out in TNA. Who would have thought it?

Well, besides me. I'm sure this comes as shocking news to those IWCers who were telling the world about how he was so great and a tremendous wrestler and blah blah blah. He was mediocre in the WWE, and clearly wasn't much more than that in TNA.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

He came, he had a small run with momentum behind him as a heel, they turned him face and from there was a slippery slope into irrelevancy, compounded by a proneness to injury and creative's lack of knowledge on exactly what to do with him. Not only that but as a wrestler hes not very good. Hes had to combat public insults from CM Punk just after the worked promo on Raw when Punk's words and opinions were seen by many as their most biblical and he had that incident with Marty Jannetty at an indy show which made him come across like an ass.

It's not a loss to the company and it doesn't effect the roster. I can name six black wrestlers on the indies with the same level of charisma but with much more ability.

And none of the fanfare. Pope was a package already built up and ready to serve. He required little to no work. No training on how to cut a promo, etc. He was the type of guy you could bring in and put on television without having to explain to everyone viewing who the fuck he is.

But IDR, Zema Ion has hairspray! HAIRSPRAY!

I get what you mean, but at the end of the day, if they don't let the whole division have more than four minutes a week, the roster doesn't matter at all. Look back at WCW. They had some of the most generic luchadores around but they were on TV and getting the crowd fired up by just being on TV. The talent level in the division can be overlooked if given the focus, which the division simply doesn't get no matter who is in it.

Yeah, that's certainly an issue, but that's also compounded to the problem TNA has had for more than two years now in having a roster far too big for the amount of time they actually have per week to sell the company. Some of these guys could get over on Xplosion, which I believe still airs in the UK and Europe, but the US audience gets two hours of TNA/IW content a week, and I don't blame TNA from moving away from their shell of an X Division and on to the bigger, better bodies they had for sale elsewhere in the card through new acquisitions like Anderson, RVD, etc.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

And none of the fanfare. Pope was a package already built up and ready to serve. He required little to no work. No training on how to cut a promo, etc. He was the type of guy you could bring in and put on television without having to explain to everyone viewing who the fuck he is.

I see what you mean, it's a fair point, but do you want to continue waiting on someone who has picked up three long term injuries in two years? Someone who tried and threatened to kill Marty Jannetty and challenged him to a legit fight because Jannetty hit Balls Mahoney over the head with a steel chair? Or a guy who isn't all that good of a wrestler to begin with, and in his most basic form has little to contribute except some charisma and talking ability.

Rich Swann on the indies is basically the same thing except he's a much better wrestler. AR Fox for Dragon Gate, just as much personality, much more wrestling ability. Willie Mack from PWG, ACH from Dragon Gate; Pope is one in a couple hundred. If all he brings is some recognition due to his history, hes not worth waiting around on.

Hell, Kenny King is just as charismatic as Pope, plus he's a good ten times better in the ring.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Not a surprise and I won't lose any sleep over not seeing Pope in TNA anymore.

Honestly, I think his whole "Pope" thing always held him back. I just can't imagine him as a big time player, saying big time things. Nobody's going to take this seriously:

"I'm gon' win the World Title, daddeh, for the congreGATION is with meeee"

Or some other pimp slash preacher bullshit. The character appealed to absolutely nobody. It's a black guy with a sparkly medical mask on.

All he truly had was some wrestling skill, good mic skills hindered by his gimmick and a whole lot of charisma.

Unfortunately, I don't think he pushed hard enough for it. This dude was the same in TNA since day one. He seemed like a guy who just sat on his ass and waited for things to happen for him. That's his mistake.

TNA's mistake is perhaps not giving a shit enough to make HIM give a shit and change or adapt.

In the end, not a big loss. The only thing that's bad is that his potential was wasted by TNA and himself. Not the first time it's happened, probably not the last.

 

[ヒュー　G.　レックション]

Didn't Devon say the same thing?

I'm not saying... I'm just saying...

Haha but wouldn't make much sense would it? I mean Aces & Eights broke his damn collarbone(!)

I believe Pope had it all. He could wrestle, he could talk, had a unique gimmick, a great look and could work face and heel equally well.

[YOUTUBE]?v=Pm0k084sJ8A[/YOUTUBE]

I mean watch that promo... the potential, what could've been! Would've been a great maineventer. The feuds he could've had.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Not a surprise and I won't lose any sleep over not seeing Pope in TNA anymore.

Honestly, I think his whole "Pope" thing always held him back. I just can't imagine him as a big time player, saying big time things. Nobody's going to take this seriously:

"I'm gon' win the World Title, daddeh, for the congreGATION is with meeee"

Or some other pimp slash preacher bullshit. The character appealed to absolutely nobody. It's a black guy with a sparkly medical mask on.

All he truly had was some wrestling skill, good mic skills hindered by his gimmick and a whole lot of charisma.

Unfortunately, I don't think he pushed hard enough for it. This dude was the same in TNA since day one. He seemed like a guy who just sat on his ass and waited for things to happen for him. That's his mistake.

TNA's mistake is perhaps not giving a shit enough to make HIM give a shit and change or adapt.

In the end, not a big loss. The only thing that's bad is that his potential was wasted by TNA and himself. Not the first time it's happened, probably not the last.

The medical mask I'll give you (I complained about that myself), but if you think the preacher drawl he spoke with didn't appeal to anyone, daddy, then I invite you to do your homework on a guy you might have heard about — "The American Dream" Dusty Rhodes. The pimp/jive-talking gimmick was fine for him, and it was fine for Pope because it was natural. It derived of his natural persona. He was getting over just fine with it, as is evidenced by his early rise in the company.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I see what you mean, it's a fair point, but do you want to continue waiting on someone who has picked up three long term injuries in two years? Someone who tried and threatened to kill Marty Jannetty and challenged him to a legit fight because Jannetty hit Balls Mahoney over the head with a steel chair? Or a guy who isn't all that good of a wrestler to begin with, and in his most basic form has little to contribute except some charisma and talking ability.

Rich Swann on the indies is basically the same thing except he's a much better wrestler. AR Fox for Dragon Gate, just as much personality, much more wrestling ability. Willie Mack from PWG, ACH from Dragon Gate; Pope is one in a couple hundred. If all he brings is some recognition due to his history, hes not worth waiting around on.

Hell, Kenny King is just as charismatic as Pope, plus he's a good ten times better in the ring.

I didn't know about all that stuff (Jannetty), but I think you know me well enough by now not to play the "he can't wrestle" card with me. Oxymoronic as it may sound, the last thing I care about in professional wrestling is how well a guy can wrestle. That's not to say I don't care at all, but among the things wrestlers need to get over, it's actually dead last in the list. Don't believe me? Go watch Hulk Hogan "wrestle". Pope had the gimmick and the verbal talent alone to take to the top, or damn close to it.

Based on what I've seen of him (and keep in mind, I'm a fan of King), I'd vehemently disagree with the idea that Kenny King is as charasmatic as Pope. He's not even close. The only thing the two men have in common is being pro wrestlers, and being black. Pope has a swagger to him that I've yet to see out of Kenny King, who to me just seems competent at speaking. The two are not at all the same.

The injuries are what would have held me away from pushing him, were they recurring, but otherwise I'm not sold on all these negatives around Pope that made him so undesirable.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

The medical mask I'll give you (I complained about that myself), but if you think the preacher drawl he spoke with didn't appeal to anyone, daddy, then I invite you to do your homework on a guy you might have heard about — "The American Dream" Dusty Rhodes. The pimp/jive-talking gimmick was fine for him. It was natural, because it derived of his natural persona. He was getting over just fine with it, as is evidenced by his early rise in the company.

All fair points, except that Dusty Rhodes' rise was in the 80's when he was sharing a profession with other funny sounding people like Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan, as well as things like taking Hogan's plane into a nose dive was considered wicked cool when grunted out by a forgotten Motley Crue member on steroids in the face of The Ultimate Warrior.

When you look at the landscape these days, a character like Pope's just doesn't fit in. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it is in his case. Pope always tried to be funny, he always tried to have this "Rocky" sense to him and forgot to take his opponents AND himself seriously.

Daddeh this, daddeh that, religion puns here, religion puns there. Has the Pope ever cut a down to Earth promo? Has he EVER delivered at least a minute of fine mic work worthy of a Main Eventer? Has he ever had a string of great matches?

If he did, I remember none of them and that says something.

But the character was simply half baked. He could've easily toned it down just a bit and make himself flashy, witty but at the same time serious enough to prevent us from thinking of him as a joke at times.

I just don't think it clicked with the people. His passion did and his natural charisma did. I doubt the character had anything to do with it and it probably held him back. He overdid it.

You wanna see good flashy in 2013? See Austin Aries. No 80's slang or coats or money or doctor masks or stereotypes needed. Just talent, a mic and something meaningful to say. Pope's never said a damn thing that made sense.

As a side note, I just realized he is copying Little Richard's mannerisms and way of speaking. Like, completely.

 

[DethMetal]

Well, I can't say that I'm extremely surprised, granted this be true, but I can say that this disappoints me. Here's a guy who had all of the potential in the world to be something, but he just could not get the ball rolling. Now, is the Pope ever going to be compared to Kurt Angle or Shawn Michaels in terms of technical wrestling skill? Probably not. However, he could talk at the very least, and he didn't completely suck in the ring. I think with a little more time honing the craft, he could've done good. 'Tis a pity.

 

[Rayne]

He got hot, thrown into a title match, then vanished into the air. Does Dixie Carter have an underage daughter, because I can't for the life of me figure this one out.

It's not like there's going to be this gaping hole in Impact! now that he's done. He hasn't been used, which is the tragedy. He's not a top of the card, main event guy, but he was entertaining and had a cult following. He's the kind of guy you could put in a world match occasionally, give him your 2nd tier title to hold onto from time to time (if the Television Title wasn't an embarrassing joke), and whom you could count on to carry the middle of the card and keep people from tuning out.

A bit off topic, but if the major promoters would learn to run with the guys that get hot on their own, there's going to be more money for everyone, including the guys that you want to get hot.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

All fair points, except that Dusty Rhodes' rise was in the 80's when he was sharing a profession with other funny sounding people like Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan, as well as things like taking Hogan's plane into a nose dive was considered wicked cool when grunted out by a forgotten Motley Crue member on steroids in the face of The Ultimate Warrior.

When you look at the landscape these days, a character like Pope's just doesn't fit in. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it is in his case. Pope always tried to be funny, he always tried to have this "Rocky" sense to him and forgot to take his opponents AND himself seriously.

Daddeh this, daddeh that, religion puns here, religion puns there. Has the Pope ever cut a down to Earth promo? Has he EVER delivered at least a minute of fine mic work worthy of a Main Eventer? Has he ever had a string of great matches?

If he did, I remember none of them and that says something.

But the character was simply half baked. He could've easily toned it down just a bit and make himself flashy, witty but at the same time serious enough to prevent us from thinking of him as a joke at times.

I just don't think it clicked with the people. His passion did and his natural charisma did. I doubt the character had anything to do with it and it probably held him back. He overdid it.

Yes, he has. Right here, posted earlier in this very thread:

[YOUTUBE]Pm0k084sJ8A[/YOUTUBE]

If you don't think that's main event caliber, try watching it and imagine him cutting that promo in an arena with a few thousand people to drown out the interim silence between sentences that tends to bring TNA's promo's down. Imagine him cutting that in front of a WWE-sized audience. He had that crowd worked. They were fully behind him, chanting for him, and finishing his catch phrases in unison the way guys like the Rock do repeatedly these days.

When you get the entire audience to chant for you, I'm fairly certain you're over, and I'm fairly certain the last thing you want to do at that point is reel it in any.

You wanna see good flashy in 2013? See Austin Aries. No 80's slang or coats or money or doctor masks or stereotypes needed. Just talent, a mic and something meaningful to say. Pope's never said a damn thing that made sense.

Again, watch the AJ/Lockdown promo. Plenty of meaning. Plenty of sense. Not buying this Pope over did it pitch for a second. He had it, and unfortunately no one here knows why he was never given the green light to go with it. Maybe it was all injuries, or maybe he pissed in someone's cheerios in the back, but there's no denying that Pope was over. He just didn't stay over.

As Rayne just posted, he got hot enough to main event Lockdown for the World Title, and then disappeared. I want to know why, not why people think that's some how indicative of his never being over in the first place. I call bullshit on that from the start.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I didn't know about all that stuff (Jannetty), but I think you know me well enough by now not to play the "he can't wrestle" card with me. Oxymoronic as it may sound, the last thing I care about in professional wrestling is how well a guy can wrestle. That's not to say I don't care at all, but among the things wrestlers need to get over, it's actually dead last in the list. Don't believe me? Go watch Hulk Hogan "wrestle". Pope had the gimmick and the verbal talent alone to take to the top, or damn close to it.

You did tell me this before, I actually forgot. But never said he can't wrestle, just that he's not very good at it. And yes Hogan was no Dean Malenko himself and made it to the top but in this era of pro wrestling you at least need to be consistent and Pope wasn't even that.

Based on what I've seen of him (and keep in mind, I'm a fan of King), I'd vehemently disagree with the idea that Kenny King is as charasmatic as Pope. He's not even close. The only thing the two men have in common is being pro wrestlers, and being black. Pope has a swagger to him that I've yet to see out of Kenny King, who to me just seems competent at speaking. The two are not at all the same.

Give Kenny time. The more they turn him into the antagonist the more personality he'll show. He cut some good, cocky promos in Ring of Honor. Does he have the charisma Pope has, I'd say he does, just not in the jiving and pimp talking wrap. But again from my perspective, which is different to yours as it pertains to wrestling ability, Pope hadn't the tools in-ring to get it done whereas Kenny has more than enough.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

You did tell me this before, I actually forgot. But never said he can't wrestle, just that he's not very good at it. And yes Hogan was no Dean Malenko himself and made it to the top but in this era of pro wrestling you at least need to be consistent and Pope wasn't even that.

Bull. The guy was good enough to main event Lockdown — TNA's second biggest PPV of the calendar year, just behind Bound For Glory. No company, even TNA, puts a guy who isn't consistent, or very good, in that spot. No one.

Give Kenny time. The more they turn him into the antagonist the more personality he'll show. He cut some good, cocky promos in Ring of Honor. Does he have the charisma Pope has, I'd say he does, just not in the jiving and pimp talking wrap. But again from my perspective, which is different to yours as it pertains to wrestling ability, Pope hadn't the tools in-ring to get it done whereas Kenny has more than enough.

I intend to, but until I see some sort of 180° turn around, I'll stand by my statement that he doesn't have half the charisma and personality that Pope had. Pope was a natural. He was born with it. King to me, right now, seems a bit forced. I'll give him rope and plenty of time to prove me wrong, but remember what I said earlier in this thread. You never needed to explain who Pope was. He did that on his own. I'm not entirely sold Kenny King will be as lucky.

 

[Rayne]

Bull. The guy was good enough to main event Lockdown — TNA's second biggest PPV of the calendar year, just behind Bound For Glory. No company, even TNA, puts a guy who isn't consistent, or very good, in that spot. No one.

I'm forced to mention John Cena vs. The Miz at Wrestlemania in 2011.

 

[Spinebreaker]

Someone in Aces & Eights is constantly wearing gloves, mask and visor...

My assumption would be that for some reason, he needs more disguising than anyone else, perhaps because the colour of his skin would be an instant giveaway...

Just thinking out loud really, but didn't D-von tweet that he was leaving too?