Don't get me wrong I was a big NWO fan and I am a hugh Scott Hall mark and his return to WCW in 1996 as an Outsider was classic but it still always pops a question in my head could WCW still have been as successful as it was if they didn't have the NWO. I know alot of people would say if the NWO wasn't made they wouldn't have blown WWE out of the water for 80+ weeks which is true but at the same time WCW was already beating WWF in the ratings slightly before Hall and Nash made their return to the company and formed the NWO with Hogan. True the NWO made WCW as big as it was but at the same time its half of the reason WCW isn't around anymore as WCW depended too much on the NWO, and everytime they broke one of the NWO groups up weather it was the original, Wolfpac, or NWO 2000 they seem to always had no idea of how too get ratings. WCW had alot of talent around 1995-1999 during the time the NWO was big they had guys like DDP, Booker T, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Raven, even guys like Chris Kanyon, Bam Bam Bigalow, and Dean Malenko. The young guys they did push the right way in my opinion were The Giant he was World Champ but I think WCW could have done better with him and they did the right thing with Goldberg at the right time but for the other guys I felt they pushed them a little to late because of the NWO. The main guy that comes to my mind is DDP like I always say he reminded me so much of Austin not so much his style but the connection he had with the fans and I think Booker and Benoit should have been pushed a year earlier and we all know the story with Jericho. And as bad of a booker Vince Russo may have been he actually had the right idea of pushing the younger guys it just happened at the wrong time for WCW. Anyway though I think WCW could have created more talent for the future if the NWO wasn't around like I said the NWO may have helped WCW but at the same time it helped killed it. So what is everyones opinion on this could the WCW have done just as good without the NWO.
Could WCW have worked without the NWO
- Thread starter DaBadGuy
- Start date
WWEWrestleFest
Pre-Show Stalwart
are you saying hall and nash still went to wcw, and hogan was there as a babyface, and they just never did the whole "invasion" angle? or are you saying hall and nash never left wwf and stayed there as razor and diesel?
anyway, my answer is no. just look at how much wwe marks HATE tna today in any wwe vs. tna post on this forum. they would never root for tna, let alone watch it. it was kind of the same way back then, but the nwo gave them an alternative that they could root for without having to label themselves "wcw fans," even though the product they were watching was wcw.
anyway, my answer is no. just look at how much wwe marks HATE tna today in any wwe vs. tna post on this forum. they would never root for tna, let alone watch it. it was kind of the same way back then, but the nwo gave them an alternative that they could root for without having to label themselves "wcw fans," even though the product they were watching was wcw.
WCW finally became the clear winner in the ratings war once Hall/Nash jumped to WCW. Months before the nWo was born.
The nWo just solidified things.
You pose an interesting question.
I do think with the roster WCW had, they would have still lead the ratings ....but without the nWo I don't thing they would have had such a great gap between themselves and WWF nor do I think they would have won for so long without the nWo.
The nWo was what drew in the crowds and unfortunately for many wrestlers and WCW, the nWo was basically the only storyline that ever had real focus and the spotlight.
Sure you had feuds and mini story lines between Guerrero and Benoit, or DDP and Raven, but they didn't get the treatment or hype anything regarding the nWo did.
Basically, the nWo was a fluke, lightning struck and Bischoff, Turner, everyone involved rode the wave until it crashed and I think everyone knew once the nWo faded off, the company would cool down.
WCW could have worked without the nWo, but there's no way they would have hit the high's they did, made the amount of money they did, done all the things they did in that time without the nWo.
The nWo is what separated them from WW(F)E at the time.
I think the problem was just as much effort and focus should have went on other wrestlers in the company so when the inevitable break-up happened, they had other things to focus on and roll the ball with.
And let me end as a nWo mark, myself by saying, it's a damn shame, almost a travesty that we have Hollywood Hogan, Hall, Nash and Bischoff working for the same company and not together again. =/
The nWo just solidified things.
You pose an interesting question.
I do think with the roster WCW had, they would have still lead the ratings ....but without the nWo I don't thing they would have had such a great gap between themselves and WWF nor do I think they would have won for so long without the nWo.
The nWo was what drew in the crowds and unfortunately for many wrestlers and WCW, the nWo was basically the only storyline that ever had real focus and the spotlight.
Sure you had feuds and mini story lines between Guerrero and Benoit, or DDP and Raven, but they didn't get the treatment or hype anything regarding the nWo did.
Basically, the nWo was a fluke, lightning struck and Bischoff, Turner, everyone involved rode the wave until it crashed and I think everyone knew once the nWo faded off, the company would cool down.
WCW could have worked without the nWo, but there's no way they would have hit the high's they did, made the amount of money they did, done all the things they did in that time without the nWo.
The nWo is what separated them from WW(F)E at the time.
I think the problem was just as much effort and focus should have went on other wrestlers in the company so when the inevitable break-up happened, they had other things to focus on and roll the ball with.
And let me end as a nWo mark, myself by saying, it's a damn shame, almost a travesty that we have Hollywood Hogan, Hall, Nash and Bischoff working for the same company and not together again. =/
Mr-excitement
Pre-Show Stalwart
Without the NWO, WCW is the same crap that WCW had become on Saturday night, which was horrible.
Trust me the Booty Man was not going to lead to ratings success. Neither was the Yeti. WCW went over because of the NWO, yes they had a grip of great talent most of which was booked horribly.
The Dungeon of Doom vs. Hogan and Savage was not doing it. Yep they were going back and forth, but sooner or later Vince was going to bury them... come to think of it, he did bury them.
Trust me the Booty Man was not going to lead to ratings success. Neither was the Yeti. WCW went over because of the NWO, yes they had a grip of great talent most of which was booked horribly.
The Dungeon of Doom vs. Hogan and Savage was not doing it. Yep they were going back and forth, but sooner or later Vince was going to bury them... come to think of it, he did bury them.
thestavrosishere
New Member
First off let me say, NO! The nWo single handedly put WcW over the top of WWF. Think about it, Nash and Hall would not have had such a great story line and Hulk Hogan, wtf? Nobody wanted to see some guy win every time. It started various feuds like wolfpac vs hollywood, which was awesome!!!
Secondly, I just joined wz and i cant post threads and i dont know how 2 confirm my accounts. If anyone can help please do.
Secondly, I just joined wz and i cant post threads and i dont know how 2 confirm my accounts. If anyone can help please do.
First off let me say, NO! The nWo single handedly put WcW over the top of WWF. Think about it, Nash and Hall would not have had such a great story line and Hulk Hogan, wtf? Nobody wanted to see some guy win every time. It started various feuds like wolfpac vs hollywood, which was awesome!!!
Secondly, I just joined wz and i cant post threads and i dont know how 2 confirm my accounts. If anyone can help please do.
Don't get me wrong like I said the NWO was great but still the WCW could have focused a little bit more on the the other guys instead of the NWO. It was o.k. to have to have the NWO in WCW because they brought the ratings but when it was time to break them up WCW lost all momentum and didn't know what to do because they spent so much time working on storylines for the NWO and Sting and not enough on DDP, Booker T, Jericho etc...
And you must post 10 times on other threads before you can finally make a thread of your own.
Spidey Revivey
Porn is okay here long as it ain't dudes.
NWO was what helped put WCW over the WWF(E) for like a large amount of weeks (Unsure all I know is that is was a lot). Please don't think I'm saying WCW would NOT have been successful without NWO, quite the contrary. WCW was a bigtime maven in the late 90s and could have used many other ways of beating World Wrestling Federation in the ratings.
But NWO did put them ahead of the game for quite some time, so it is difficult to lean one way or another. I'm just glad it came, it conquered, and then ended.
If it were to have never happened, I'm sure the creative team would have figured something out to put their many superstars over. The guys in the back were really big on making stables, so I am sure one way or another a big faction would have arose.
But NWO did put them ahead of the game for quite some time, so it is difficult to lean one way or another. I'm just glad it came, it conquered, and then ended.
If it were to have never happened, I'm sure the creative team would have figured something out to put their many superstars over. The guys in the back were really big on making stables, so I am sure one way or another a big faction would have arose.
I think perhaps the wrong question is being asked. Would WCW have been as successful, during those few years? Absolutely not. However, without the NWO, its also possible that WCW might still be around. Why did WCW get sold to Vince McMahon and shut down? Because it got ridiculously expensive. Without the NWO, WCW doesn't beat the WWE, but it's cost also wouldn't have skyrocketed, and it would have been easier to manage.
Without the NWO, Hogan, Nash and Hall don't have as much pull as they did. Hogan would have had a large amount of pull, just because he is Hulk Hogan, but, Nash and Hall would have been just another two wrestlers, like everyone else. Basically, the success of the NWO made WCW greedy. They overtook the WWE, but then had to spend and spend and spend to try to keep it that way. If they had never had the NWO, they wouldn't have been as big, but they wouldn't have spent the same amount of money, either...which means their costs would have been less.
Growth is only a good thing if you have the resources to sustain it. WCW did not. Ultimately, while the NWO made WCW a success temporarily, it was at the cost of making WCW a failure, long term.
It all comes down to cost vs. value. The value of the NWO for a few years, was incredibly high...but it was also incredibly costly, to the point where the money WCW was spending was a liability instead of an asset, and they had no choice but to sell the company. WCW's fall is often blamed on mismanagement, and that is true...but, not enough attention is given to the NWO and the headaches it caused as being a prime example of that mismanagement. WCW allowed the inmates to take over the asylum, and it killed the company. WCW might have been better off taking a more conservative approach to its "competition" with the WWE.
Without the NWO, Hogan, Nash and Hall don't have as much pull as they did. Hogan would have had a large amount of pull, just because he is Hulk Hogan, but, Nash and Hall would have been just another two wrestlers, like everyone else. Basically, the success of the NWO made WCW greedy. They overtook the WWE, but then had to spend and spend and spend to try to keep it that way. If they had never had the NWO, they wouldn't have been as big, but they wouldn't have spent the same amount of money, either...which means their costs would have been less.
Growth is only a good thing if you have the resources to sustain it. WCW did not. Ultimately, while the NWO made WCW a success temporarily, it was at the cost of making WCW a failure, long term.
It all comes down to cost vs. value. The value of the NWO for a few years, was incredibly high...but it was also incredibly costly, to the point where the money WCW was spending was a liability instead of an asset, and they had no choice but to sell the company. WCW's fall is often blamed on mismanagement, and that is true...but, not enough attention is given to the NWO and the headaches it caused as being a prime example of that mismanagement. WCW allowed the inmates to take over the asylum, and it killed the company. WCW might have been better off taking a more conservative approach to its "competition" with the WWE.
Even though I don't believe it to be true, you could argue that the "attitude era" would have never happened had it not been for the nWo.
I think WCW would have done okay without the nWo. They still had a lot to offer. They probably would have had a similar fate to the then-WWF, ratings that were good, but not great, but plateaued similarly to how WWE's ratings are today.
I think WCW would have done okay without the nWo. They still had a lot to offer. They probably would have had a similar fate to the then-WWF, ratings that were good, but not great, but plateaued similarly to how WWE's ratings are today.
WCW would have continued to do okay without Hall and Nash coming in and the nWo angle happening, but I don't think they would have reached the heights they ended up reaching. Also, wrestling as a whole wouldn't have been nearly as popular as it became in the late 90's. The nWo angle was the catalyst.
Let's put it this way, people still talk about and remember the nWo. It was that popular, it was that great of an angle (I'm speaking of the ORIGINAL nWo here).
Does anyone ever bring up the New Japan invasion of WCW in late 1995??
Not really.
It was a good angle. But it wasn't something that changed the way wrestling television was done. The nWo was.
WCW would have done okay, for the most part it wasn't bad. In fact, the summer '96 television was pretty damn good even before Hall and Nash came in. But once they did and wrestling started building steam, it went from something only certain types of people watched to something that the general public couldn't really deny anymore.
I think the problem with wrestling TV now is that nobody gets real heat anymore. The nWo kicked the shit out of WCW week after week, month after month for a LONG time. Sting emerged was invincible against the nWo for a LONG time. Goldberg beat everyone for a LONG time.
You have to build that heat to get people to care about what will happen. THEN what happens matters. These days it's just back-and-forth booking that leads nowhere. I beat you up one week, you beat me up the next week, and none of it feels like it matters.
Let's put it this way, people still talk about and remember the nWo. It was that popular, it was that great of an angle (I'm speaking of the ORIGINAL nWo here).
Does anyone ever bring up the New Japan invasion of WCW in late 1995??
Not really.
It was a good angle. But it wasn't something that changed the way wrestling television was done. The nWo was.
WCW would have done okay, for the most part it wasn't bad. In fact, the summer '96 television was pretty damn good even before Hall and Nash came in. But once they did and wrestling started building steam, it went from something only certain types of people watched to something that the general public couldn't really deny anymore.
I think the problem with wrestling TV now is that nobody gets real heat anymore. The nWo kicked the shit out of WCW week after week, month after month for a LONG time. Sting emerged was invincible against the nWo for a LONG time. Goldberg beat everyone for a LONG time.
You have to build that heat to get people to care about what will happen. THEN what happens matters. These days it's just back-and-forth booking that leads nowhere. I beat you up one week, you beat me up the next week, and none of it feels like it matters.
WCW could have still succeeded, but may be not to the same heights. But they would've had to do other things to compensate.....
1) Pushed the crusierweights. Jericho, Mysterio, Gurrero, Malenko, Juventud, etc. WOW!!
2) Push new stars beside Goldberg. I know, you gotta think about it.
3) Ditch Hulk Hogan. Again this is if the NWO never went down. So either they had to turn him heel or get rid of him. Face Hogan at that point was BORING and CORNY.
4) Slim the talent pool. Make every wrestler actually earn their spot. If they couldn't cut it, send them packing. WCW had WAY too many wrestlers.
5) They had to continue to push the edge. Nitro against Raw was ballsy and it paid off. Surprise return of Lex Luger, the night after Summerslam demonstrated that edge as well.
6) Handled Bret Hart ALOT better. What a missed opporutnity in WCW.
7) Kept the 4 Horsemen fresh and really pushed them. Malenko, Benoit, Flar, aand Anderson could've been really special.
8) Pushed the wrestling matches longer. None of this 3 minute match junk they had on Nitro. They could've displayed a better quality of wrestling that would've seperated itself from WWE.
9) Stopped bringning in names from the past so much. A few sure, but Ultimate Warrior? What a waste of money.
10) Undercut PPVs. Meaning if they sold their PPVs half the price of WWE, they could've blown them out the water. They cut out the arena shows and made revenue. That would've surely increased the PPV sales of WCW significantly.
1) Pushed the crusierweights. Jericho, Mysterio, Gurrero, Malenko, Juventud, etc. WOW!!
2) Push new stars beside Goldberg. I know, you gotta think about it.
3) Ditch Hulk Hogan. Again this is if the NWO never went down. So either they had to turn him heel or get rid of him. Face Hogan at that point was BORING and CORNY.
4) Slim the talent pool. Make every wrestler actually earn their spot. If they couldn't cut it, send them packing. WCW had WAY too many wrestlers.
5) They had to continue to push the edge. Nitro against Raw was ballsy and it paid off. Surprise return of Lex Luger, the night after Summerslam demonstrated that edge as well.
6) Handled Bret Hart ALOT better. What a missed opporutnity in WCW.
7) Kept the 4 Horsemen fresh and really pushed them. Malenko, Benoit, Flar, aand Anderson could've been really special.
8) Pushed the wrestling matches longer. None of this 3 minute match junk they had on Nitro. They could've displayed a better quality of wrestling that would've seperated itself from WWE.
9) Stopped bringning in names from the past so much. A few sure, but Ultimate Warrior? What a waste of money.
10) Undercut PPVs. Meaning if they sold their PPVs half the price of WWE, they could've blown them out the water. They cut out the arena shows and made revenue. That would've surely increased the PPV sales of WCW significantly.
it would have been ok, but nowhere near the popularity of the nwo had, if it wern't for the nwo, we would be having more, johnny b badd vs alex wright matches, pathetic gimmick matches(battle royal cage match, scaffolding match), no over the top rule, and the alliance to end hulkamania stable as the top heel group on the show, they would be ok but eventually sink slowly but surely, the nwo kept wcw alive for more years than it should have been.
MrHashasheen
Enjoying Wrestling
I think they could have easily managed without the NWO. Without Nash, Hogan and Hall, they could have easily worked with their own rising stars. They had practically every modern big-time wrestler at one point or another. Triple H, Booker T, DDP, Chris Jericho, Steve Austin, Eddy Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko, ... the list just goes on and on. Without the WWF superstars weighing down WCW, they really could have gone all the way while McMahon was struggling with the gimmicks and most of the older wrestlers might have gone to Japan or elsewhere and not brought down WCW. Eric Bischoff would have never become such good friends with Hogan and the Band, and the state of affairs that was Pre-NWO WCW might have gone on for much longer and much better.
Heck, I'm thinking of trying a BTB where Jim Ross gets the nod for Executive Producer instead of Bischoff and runs with the original cast he had to work with. Too long-term though, so it might be in increments.
Heck, I'm thinking of trying a BTB where Jim Ross gets the nod for Executive Producer instead of Bischoff and runs with the original cast he had to work with. Too long-term though, so it might be in increments.
No. It really surprises me, yet again, that people believe that WCW was at one point ran well enough where it had any kind of long term future. Bischoff gets some credit for doing what he could do, but he had absolutely no support system whatsoever in the office. He was doing everything by the seat of his pants. It could have turned ugly at any given moment and he was somewhat lucky they had as good of a run as they did.
It would be more of an interesting debate to ask, say, would the WWF have worked without the Attitude Era?
IMO, The success of the New World Order had way more to do with Hulk Hogan turning heel than Hall and Nash. Without Hogan, it would not have lasted nearly as long nor would it have been as big. The "wolfpac" is evidence of that. And as much credit as Eric Bischoff gets, Kevin Sullivan should also get a lot of credit. Sullivan was the best booker WCW ever had.
It would be more of an interesting debate to ask, say, would the WWF have worked without the Attitude Era?
IMO, The success of the New World Order had way more to do with Hulk Hogan turning heel than Hall and Nash. Without Hogan, it would not have lasted nearly as long nor would it have been as big. The "wolfpac" is evidence of that. And as much credit as Eric Bischoff gets, Kevin Sullivan should also get a lot of credit. Sullivan was the best booker WCW ever had.
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