CM Punk Has Got To Go

[TheFuture]

We get it, you don't like CM Punk. But to attempt to put the full blame for the lack of ratings on Punk is just ignorant. There are several factors that you can't crunch into your numbers that you love to present, a big one being maybe people just aren't as interested in wrestling as they used to be?

But even if you want to not look at that possible aspect and want to continue to put it on one person in this case Punk, lets look at it like this. WWE Champ usually averages what, about half an hour total on air per week? What about the other hour and a half that aren't making the ratings? Is that one individuals fault as well? Or could it be something more? As for the PPV buys, they've been in a downward spiral for years. the main reasons for this are simple, to many PPV's per year, to expensive, and this thing called the internet that people use to watch them for free.

You can present all the numbers in the world, you can even present your facts, but you are clearly refusing to look at the full picture simply due to your dislike for Punk.

 

[ryan86]

Ok I will have to lay this out specificly since 95% of you just cant get your arms around what i'm saying.

This is what the WWE cuurently resembles: (not exactly verbatim)

3.45
3.33
3.28
3.23
3.18
3.05
2.95

This is what would be Normal: (for this time of year)

3.26
3.18
3.37
3.45
3.27
3.28
3.38

What is the difference in those numbers? Yes... for the 3 of you who know the answer; viewers not sticking around in the second half.

This is the first year this has happned (2000 being another where they were dropping in the last 4 months of the year, but i havnt checked the 1st vs 2nd half numbers)

their is NO OTHER YEAR that has this precident. Monday night competition was NOT just created this year! Neither was alternative sources of viewing.

Their are 3 Raws left to go this year; We could probably see 10 consecutive weeks. The 2nd of January will be the ultimate test. If viewer go away in the second half, I will again call for Punk to step aside. But this probably won't be settled matter untill june '12.

 

[WrathUponEden]

I agree with pretty much everyone on here. I 100% disagree. I think CM Punk is great with pretty much everything he does. It would be a horrible move for the WWE to get rid of CM Punk.

 

[jhaddad18]

ok. CM punk is my favorite right now, and has potential to be my favorite for a looong time. But the one thing that rly disappointed me is the fact that he used the "contract signings are cliche" joke like months ago, then used it again tonight, almost in the same exact way!...The take up drinking line was hilarious, but he cannot start repeating jokes or else punk is gonna get reallllly stale. And all you Punk fans are in denial if u dont recognize this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXvaulkeC7g
He said it in august...i know it was a long time ago, but still a repeated joke and shows just a lilllll bit of creativity loss from punk. Stillll love him tho.

Was anyone else really disappointed at the repeated contract signing joke or what?! speak up.

 

[ryan86]

Jhaddad18:

(you know your name kind of looks like "Jihad"... watch out for the FBI)

Anyway, you got at the crux of the probelm. Once you start down this path it's a slippery slope.

Playing to the IWC as your entire charchter is destined to burn out quickly, as the WWE will only let that same charchter go so far. What is he supposed to do next? Admit the outcomes of the following matches and complain about it, make them look set up to stack the odds aganst "true" upcoming tallent? More establishment conspricacy...

He is actually very handcuffed in his ability to stay fresh and the second he evolves beyond the IWC, he will look hypocritical and he will be done.

The WWE made a huge mistake in identifying him completely as an IWC bomb thrower (He could have just been known to do this periodicly) but he will have to evolve beyond that to remain relevant. And when he does, He's finished.

But atleast he will be able to remain in the upper-mid-card.

 

[CraigThe13th]

Jhaddad18:

(you know your name kind of looks like "Jihad"... watch out for the FBI)

Anyway, you got at the crux of the probelm. Once you start down this path it's a slippery slope.

Playing to the IWC as your entire charchter is destined to burn out quickly, as the WWE will only let that same charchter go so far. What is he supposed to do next? Admit the outcomes of the following matches and complain about it, make them look set up to stack the odds aganst "true" upcoming tallent? More establishment conspricacy...

He is actually very handcuffed in his ability to stay fresh and the second he evolves beyond the IWC, he will look hypocritical and he will be done.

The WWE made a huge mistake in identifying him completely as an IWC bomb thrower (He could have just been known to do this periodicly) but he will have to evolve beyond that to remain relevant. And when he does, He's finished.

But atleast he will be able to remain in the upper-mid-card.

That Jihad comment is a bit dodgy mate, as is your daft political statement at the bottom of the page (It's spelt Intellectuals by the way lol) as is your opinion of CM Punk. You argue your point well, but you haven't got a realistic point. CM Punk is one of the main reasons for many people to watch RAW. Do you see all them white Punk shirts in the crowd every show? You will be proven wrong over time. Punk will stay in the main event.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Jhaddad18:

(you know your name kind of looks like "Jihad"... watch out for the FBI)

Anyway, you got at the crux of the probelm. Once you start down this path it's a slippery slope.

Playing to the IWC as your entire charchter is destined to burn out quickly, as the WWE will only let that same charchter go so far. What is he supposed to do next? Admit the outcomes of the following matches and complain about it, make them look set up to stack the odds aganst "true" upcoming tallent? More establishment conspricacy...

He is actually very handcuffed in his ability to stay fresh and the second he evolves beyond the IWC, he will look hypocritical and he will be done.

The WWE made a huge mistake in identifying him completely as an IWC bomb thrower (He could have just been known to do this periodicly) but he will have to evolve beyond that to remain relevant. And when he does, He's finished.

But atleast he will be able to remain in the upper-mid-card.

No, Punk is being pushed as still anti-establishment, but more in a traditional way. So his character isn't a hypocrit and no one sees him as that except for a few IWC ******s who think he should "shoot" every night and use their posts as his script. What the WWE did was incredibly smart. They let him get all the IWC up in a hoopla and then put him against John Cena. So there was a HUUUGE amount of visibility going on there. Everyone was watching the feud. Then they had John Cena put him over on the mic (not just in the matches, very important). so now, the Cena fans, who may have disagree with punk, say "well cena says he's good and respects him, maybe he's not bad". Then he went against HHH. A guy who's biggest fans are mostly non IWC and also non Cena. So basically, the only segment that may not have been affected yet. then HHH makes Punk seem like a big deal.

Think of it like this. There are several segments of the audience and each wrestler more or less gets a reaction out of one, maybe two, but very few guys get everyone to care about them. punk started out just being really supported by the smarks. over the fall, they brought Punk to the attention of the other fans and he tweaked his character in a way that appeals to more fans.

I don't Punk is ever going to be the number 1 draw in the world, but he should be at least at a randy Orton level for a long time now. He doesn't look like a star, but neither did Austin. It's how the "blue collar guy fightin the man" character works. Punk isn't austin....at all really, not even in his character other than the very core of what he is.

Look at it like this too, at first, Punk was more like a college liberal blogging about what he's pissed off about. Now he's more like an angry factory working doing something about it. Punk is less smarmy talk and more "punch-you-in-the-face". It's why he's more over now and with a broader audience than he was 3 months ago.

 

[MizFit Brocko]

I completely agree with the OP on this one, and think a few of the comments towards him for stating his opinion, which are based with stats might I add, are rather ridiculous, even for angry marks/fans of Punk.

I don't dislike Punk at all, but I really do not like him as Champion. As this apparent 'interest' in Punk has grown since he 'left' the WWE, my personal interest, (as well as some others looking at viewer stats, has decreased).

I MUCH preferred Punk in S.E.S, and even previously when he has been chasing the belt, mainly on S.D though.

This is my personal opinion though, and i'm sure people will disagree. But I think there are much better options for champions who can properly carry the RAW brand, where interest gathers as the show goes on. Cena, Orton (who's character I dislike much more than Punk, but feel is a better champion), and even the Miz. (I'd love to see viewer stats on when Miz was champ compared to Punk).

As I said, I don't hate or even dislike Punk that much, I'm just not buying into his whole 'Making the WWE more interesting' campaign he keeps spouting on about.

 

[aallen11]

dude, you're 25 and you can't even spell. don't lecture us on financials when it's obvious CM PUNK is the best thing going. Have you ever thought, for a second, that your precious Cody Rhodes is in a crisis right now? I mean, he never defends his title, for the love of God they have him feuding with Booker T, not to mention the fact that he HAS NO GIMMICK ANYMORE. getting destroyed by Randy Orton and saying he set you free makes you look weak to the public...and he needs an identity and a gimmick immediately or he might find his way back to Ted DiBiase again.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

dude, you're 25 and you can't even spell. don't lecture us on financials when it's obvious CM PUNK is the best thing going. Have you ever thought, for a second, that your precious Cody Rhodes is in a crisis right now? I mean, he never defends his title, for the love of God they have him feuding with Booker T, not to mention the fact that he HAS NO GIMMICK ANYMORE. getting destroyed by Randy Orton and saying he set you free makes you look weak to the public...and he needs an identity and a gimmick immediately or he might find his way back to Ted DiBiase again.

they don't make you spell when teaching you finance and economics. Some people can spell everything and can't do basic math, other people excel out of the other side of their brain. It's just how people are.

How is Rhodes in a crisis? He works his character better than just about anyone and is over. He's feuding with Booker T to give him visability with a different sector of the audience. rhodes was pretty over on raw, he's not weak, he DOES have an identity and a character. Ted can't work a character worth shit.

do you listen to the audience? Or just ramble on about your opinion that you back up with your opinion? Rhodes is over, in my opinion, it's because rhodes works his character well.

 

[ryan86]

they don't make you spell when teaching you finance and economics. Some people can spell everything and can't do basic math, other people excel out of the other side of their brain. It's just how people are.

How is Rhodes in a crisis? He works his character better than just about anyone and is over. He's feuding with Booker T to give him visability with a different sector of the audience. rhodes was pretty over on raw, he's not weak, he DOES have an identity and a character. Ted can't work a character worth shit.

do you listen to the audience? Or just ramble on about your opinion that you back up with your opinion? Rhodes is over, in my opinion, it's because rhodes works his character well.

THANK YOU!

people just throw that out there B/C like you said "They can only back up opinions with opinions".

And so Raw goes down for an 8th consecutive week, with under preforming competition from MNF, which scored a horrendous 3.7

4.33m viewers vs 4.35m last week.

 

[ryan86]

I didn't watch Raw this week, not because Punk is champ but because I had other shit going on, I have family in town for the holidays plus I had to do some shopping.

Also you said Raw went down to MNF for the 8th consecutive week, Punk has only been champ for 4 weeks, so it's pretty clear the "issue" has more to do with people being more interested in football than wrestling.

No, actually, i am going to stay away from blaming it on Punk, B/C i'm sure when I read the breakdown's other things will come to light.

Like the fact that it was not MNF that took away viewers, but HISTORY PROGRAMMING.

But regarding Punk, He still has shown ZERO "coat tail" effects.

I fully expect their to be a 9th and 10th consecutive drop B/C if the trend were to break, this was the last chance to do it before the first of the year. That last two Raws of Dec. have allway historicly tanked, even in boom periods.

I am predicting some 2.5's (19th and 26th Dec). This wont be Punk's fault though.

 

[justinsayne]

I didn't watch Raw this week, not because Punk is champ but because I had other shit going on, I have family in town for the holidays plus I had to do some shopping.

Also you said Raw went down to MNF for the 8th consecutive week, Punk has only been champ for 4 weeks, so it's pretty clear the "issue" has more to do with people being more interested in football than wrestling.

 

[Skairipa Matrix]

the original poster is such an idiot and people like him is the reason i rarley go on these forums anymore just because he had 1 or 2 matches that didnt draw big doesnt mean you fire him cm punk is easily 1 of the most over stars in the company right now and last i saw he was selling more merchandise then cena,rock and zack ryder are so why the hell do you fire him? go back to your little world of being a cody rhodes mark as you clearly are and stop being an idiot i mean come on use your brain before you make another forum

 

[dotty_84]

Punk heralds attention when he isn't on TV he and Cenas name gets chanted all the time. He's the Champ because he's earned and it's the sensible thing to do, he's a top merch seller and the guy most want to see.

For me at WM29 it should be Cena V Punk i think these guys can have epic fueds in years to come they have great chemistry this isn't just down to one man, it's from both.

 

[Kayoh]

First of all, can we please stop using this term "smark"? There is no such thing as a smart mark. If you are truly smart to the business, you are not a mark. It's an oxymoronic term that needs to die. The people you're referring to when you say "smarks" are internet marks. The Cena-hating, ROH loving, Jim Cornette worshiping jackasses who think the number of moves in a wrestler's so-called "arsenal" is what makes him a good wrestler. Internet marks. Not "smarks".

Second of all, Ryan, I agree with you to a degree, but the way you approached it was all wrong. On a forum where CM Punk is as close to untouchable as Steve Austin himself, saying that he "needs to go" is literally just begging for negative attention. All of the people calling you an idiot or a dumbass or whatever...you asked for that, my brotha. You can't even suggest that you didn't see it coming because you've shown in this thread that you've got at least decent foresight.

Third of all, when I say I agree with you "to a degree," I mean I agree with the fact that Punk hasn't proven that he can draw ratings by himself yet. The "to a degree" part is because while he hasn't proven that he can draw by himself yet, he hasn't been given a true opportunity to do so, either. The Miz and Alberto Del Rio are both proven duds as main eventers and they're the only guys he's even been mentioned in the same breath as since his feud with Triple H ended. Before then, he was working with guys who you could attribute ratings to, like Triple H and John Cena. It's all very convoluted and to jump to conclusions already is foolish in my opinion. Give me CM Punk vs somebody who the fans ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT and then the numbers will be telling. Nobody cares about Del Rio anymore and nobody has cared about The Miz since he got his ass whipped by Alex Riley at Capitol Punishment. CM Punk is a shining light in this business because he is the only guy on the Raw brand who has actually done anything with more of a spotlight. Del Rio, Miz, Truth, there are no top heels on Raw. For fuck's sake, the WWE had to resort to using Jerry Lawler earlier this year to give The Miz something to do while Cena was sidetracked by The Rock. The lack of star power on Raw is staggering. Why do you think they started doing the Super Shows? They don't have enough stars for both brands anymore, and they need to keep their A show interesting. Nobody has stepped up in the last year or so aside from Punk, who, whether you like him or not, is creating compelling television. The numbers may not reflect that right now, but like I said, look at what Punk has to work with. We can't have Punk vs Cena forever, and there is just nobody else. If Kevin Nash was in wrestling shape, he'd be great for Punk to work with, but he isn't going to work with anybody he isn't good buddies with because he knows he isn't going to be the one taking bumps. It is nearly impossible to actually tell how effective of a WWE champion CM Punk is right now because everything around him is so convoluted. Raw is really a mess right now and it isn't any one person's fault, it's everybody not named CM Punk or John Cena's fault for not stepping up and being "that guy" like Punk has done recently and like Cena has been doing for years now.

 

[Jeff Hardy Rulez]

CM Punk needs to stay, but the whole WWE Roster needs revamped bring the Guidance back to TV-14 because its slowly but surely rotting away. Adult viewers are tuning out because there is no more edgy moments or good talent because the wrong people are being pushed such as Del Rio and Miz and the wrong people are left to rot, a perfect example of this was John Morrison.

They need some former stars back also to re-start them off
Jericho
Hardys(If they can prove their clean and have got rid of their addictions).
Finlay
MVP(Heel)
RVD

 

[anik_lc]

If Punk has got to go then WWE seriously should have stopped broadcasting.

CM Punk is the best wrestler in the world. Why he has to go? No way.

 

[lukeskywalker]

I know I am sort of the new guy and what I am about to say may not win me any popularity contest but I don't care because you guys mean nothing to me because I will never ever meet any of you in real life.But I have to say it kind of bothers me that people are so rude calling people ******ed, idiots, morons, etc, just because you don't agree with that person says.I could of swore that the rules state to not flame another poster, but it seems like some of you guys and even some of the moderators are not following the rule.Just because someone has a different option about something does not mean they need to be attacked.

 

[ryan86]

Just because someone has a different option about something does not mean they need to be attacked.

Well, you have hit the nail on the head. I made my analysis and provided statistics to back them up. Economics was part of my degree as most have found out, so I know I have some credibility and knowlege on how to put these numbers into context. But the problem on this forum, as I have found out, is that there are very few willing to entertain or participate in a financial assessment.

"Entertainment" and subjective emotion is what drives the thoughts of most posters. So when you ask them to match the key business indicators with their opinions, they are unable to do it. It's beyond their prespective.

The biggest suporters of Punk preclaim him "this generation's SCSA". So I say... Really? I will provide you with an unprecidented 8 consecutive drops in ratings. I will also provide you with the net negative 31,000 buys of the 3rd qarter. And the 7% decrease in attendance.

 

[ryan86]

Second of all, Ryan, I agree with you to a degree, but the way you approached it was all wrong. On a forum where CM Punk is as close to untouchable as Steve Austin himself, saying that he "needs to go" is literally just begging for negative attention. All of the people calling you an idiot or a dumbass or whatever...you asked for that, my brotha. You can't even suggest that you didn't see it coming because you've shown in this thread that you've got at least decent foresight.

Well, I give people the tuth. And I didn't come here to pander for respect B/C I have the respect of my convictions. I don't want anyone's "pat on the back". I want to give people a chance to look inside their own opinions and force them to corrolate them with facts.

Some people on this forum appreciate an objective argument and want to participate in a much broader discussion. And for that, I am vendicated.

I will never apologise for opening larger context that challenge common wisdom.

 

[Kayoh]

Well, I give people the tuth. And I didn't come here to pander for respect B/C I have the respect of my convictions. I don't want anyone's "pat on the back". I want to give people a chance to look inside their own opinions and force them to corrolate them with facts.

Some people on this forum appreciate an objective argument and want to participate in a much broader discussion. And for that, I am vendicated.

I will never apologise for opening larger context that challenge common wisdom.

That's great and all, but I still feel like you're awfully quick to jump to conclusions. Not to mention, never forget: there's always more money in the babyface CHASING the championship than there is in the babyface HOLDING the championship. And Punk's entire title "chase", unless you count his =ONE= one on one match with Del Rio, he's been chasing a babyface. Cena at MitB & SS: Babyface vs Babyface. Punk vs Trips at NoC: Babyface vs Babyface. Hell in a Cell was a triple threat where, again, a babyface went into the PPV with the title. Vengeance, Punk wasn't even in the title picture. Then, finally at Survivor Series, Madison Square Garden was sold out, sure, but how much of that can you chalk up to Punk compared to The Rock? Nobody can possibly know, but common sense says Rock sold that event, not Punk. Then again, nobody in history, unless you count Austin and Hogan, has ever been able to move tickets like The Rock.

Punk is, at this point, a great talent whose drawing power is only in question due to him being a victim of circumstance. Any other current main eventer would have had similar numbers if they were in his spot, and I'm convinced that list includes both Cena and Orton.

I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, I'm just saying it's too early for you to be right.

 

[Arcade]

This topic is just pure idiocy. The objective view to the popular opinion isn't always the smart view. CM Punk is not the reason why Raw's ratings have been decreasing. Raw ratings have been low since Cena was champ. CM.Punk is obviously the top guy in the WWE and WWE knows this. They aren't gonna depushed Punk nor get rid of Punk. Please stop making threads like this. It seems like you have.good intentions but making threads like this just makes you look like an complete ass.

 

[manstis1804]

Ratings didn't rise when Austin turned face either, not right away. They were pretty crap for about a year afterward, until the big angle with Vince and when Mike Tyson got involved with Wrestlemania. It's too early to definitively say Punk's a success or a failure. Just go by if you enjoy what he's doing, and if you don't that's perfectly fine.

Personally, I'm a fan but some stuff he's done as a face is cringe-worthy, like the stuff going around with his cell phone and telling people how lame they are via google stats. I think he's still experimenting with his face character but he's got a good grasp of it, and it will only get better because Punk is good at understanding what the fans want and has the right attitude to want to give it to them.

 

[DukeDukeDuke]

Well, you have hit the nail on the head. I made my analysis and provided statistics to back them up. Economics was part of my degree as most have found out, so I know I have some credibility and knowlege on how to put these numbers into context. But the problem on this forum, as I have found out, is that there are very few willing to entertain or participate in a financial assessment.

"Entertainment" and subjective emotion is what drives the thoughts of most posters. So when you ask them to match the key business indicators with their opinions, they are unable to do it. It's beyond their prespective.

The biggest suporters of Punk preclaim him "this generation's SCSA". So I say... Really? I will provide you with an unprecidented 8 consecutive drops in ratings. I will also provide you with the net negative 31,000 buys of the 3rd qarter. And the 7% decrease in attendance.

Okay, I can accept the reasoning that a lack in interest results in a lack of viewership. And, based on your first post, I think it's fair to assert that you're suggesting that an advertised main event should hold a viewers interest throughout the whole show, correct? Again, not unreasonable. So lets examine the main events of the past 8 weeks of RAW (say, since Oct 31st):

• Oct 31st; The Miz vs. John Cena
  
• Nov 7th; The Miz & R Truth vs. John Cena & Zack Ryder
  
• Nov 14th; Wade Barrett vs. Randy Orton (Last Match); The Rock, Cena, Miz & R Truth Promo (Last Segment)
  
• Nov 21st; Kofi Kingston vs. Wade Barrett (Last Match); Cena, Miz & R Truth Promo (Last Segment)
  
• Nov 28th; Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk
  
• Dec 5th; Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler (Last Match), CM Punk, Miz and Del Rio contract signing (Last Segment)
  
• Dec 12th; Mark Henry vs. John Cena
  
• Dec 19th; The Miz, Dolph Ziggler and Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Zack Ryder and Daniel Bryan

So, based purely upon numerical main event participation over the last 8 weeks of Raw, and using your reasoning that an advertised main event should hold a viewers interest throughout the whole show, I would have to come to the conclusion that it is in fact The Miz (having appeared in 6 main events/segments) and to a lesser extent, John Cena, (appearing in 5 main events/segments) whom are responsible for viewer drop off.

Help me out here, how did your economics degree lead you to the conclusion that CM Punk is to blame? Because these numbers don't back you up at all.

And BTW, it's Intellectuals. Two L's. You're signature is dripping with irony.